What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Thread (4 Viewers)

Sand said:
Same here.  Hopefully the teased OCare replacement will not be smoke and mirrors.  OCare was and I, sadly, have no doubt TCare will be, as well.
Click to expand...
Since Trump has done nothing but undermine the ACA, we are now 2+ years into TrumpCare.  This admin is responsible for the current state of healthcare in America.  But yes, I do hope the new and improved TrumpCare lives up to his hype.  Disappointed he's delaying it until after the 2020 election.  Not sure what that says about his confidence in his plan though.

 
Amused to Death said:
Since Trump has done nothing but undermine the ACA, we are now 2+ years into TrumpCare.  This admin is responsible for the current state of healthcare in America.  But yes, I do hope the new and improved TrumpCare lives up to his hype.  Disappointed he's delaying it until after the 2020 election.  Not sure what that says about his confidence in his plan though.
Click to expand...
As much as the blue team wants this to be true it just isn't.  There is a huge thread on this.  The economics of what OCare instituted could have been more cheaply implemented by simply paying outright for the additional people on the rolls.  That's just how bad the system put in place is.

 
Sand said:
As much as the blue team wants this to be true it just isn't.  There is a huge thread on this.  The economics of what OCare instituted could have been more cheaply implemented by simply paying outright for the additional people on the rolls.  That's just how bad the system put in place is.
Click to expand...
The GOP controlled the entire government for 2 years and did nothing to improve healthcare.  The GOP owns the current state.  You may not like it, but they've failed to "repeal and replace" and have nothing to offer.  Nine years of complaining about the ACA and still have no viable option.  Its on the GOP right now.

 
Sand said:
As much as the blue team wants this to be true it just isn't.  There is a huge thread on this.  The economics of what OCare instituted could have been more cheaply implemented by simply paying outright for the additional people on the rolls.  That's just how bad the system put in place is.
Click to expand...
The current administration has taken steps to make healthcare even worse.  They own the current version of what we have.  That’s why it is true.  Because of their actions.

 
sho nuff said:
Sand said:
As much as the blue team wants this to be true it just isn't.  There is a huge thread on this.  The economics of what OCare instituted could have been more cheaply implemented by simply paying outright for the additional people on the rolls.  That's just how bad the system put in place is.
Click to expand...
The current administration has taken steps to make healthcare even worse.  They own the current version of what we have.  That’s why it is true.  Because of their actions.
Click to expand...
Exactly.  The ACA wasn't perfect but the Trump admin has made it their goal to make it worse by underfunding and now trying to have the courts completely dismantle it without any replacement.  And the fact that Trump won't do anything about it for AT LEAST another year and a half is ridiculous.  That's Trump's plan.

ETA: IOW, Trump's plan is stomp his feet and point out how bad the ACA is while doing nothing to fix it for over 4 years.  That's the best he has; that's TrumpCare.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Amused to Death said:
The GOP controlled the entire government for 2 years and did nothing to improve healthcare.  The GOP owns the current state.  You may not like it, but they've failed to "repeal and replace" and have nothing to offer.  Nine years of complaining about the ACA and still have no viable option.  Its on the GOP right now.
Click to expand...
Sorry, the official rule for placing matters squarely on the plate of the party in control of the Whitehouse is after 28 full months in charge.  You are a few weeks premature.  Did you not get the memo? 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
sho nuff said:
The current administration has taken steps to make healthcare even worse.  They own the current version of what we have.  That’s why it is true.  Because of their actions.
Click to expand...
A good read.  The cost curve is bending now.  We all know what the ACA premium and deductible cost curve looked like - a steep slope up.

 
Sand said:
A good read.  The cost curve is bending now.  We all know what the ACA premium and deductible cost curve looked like - a steep slope up.
Click to expand...
This is the good news?

Health & Human Services Secretary Alex Azar recently announced that premiums for a benchmark Affordable Care Act 2019 plan on the federal exchange will drop 2 percent nationally compared with 2018 premiums — the first reduction since the law's implementation.
 
While this is encouraging news, it is no cause for a major celebration. When Obamacare's exchanges open for business in just a few weeks, on Nov. 1, many consumers will still find exchange plans unaffordable. Rates will soar by double digitsin many states. Despite the slight decline in the national average premium, the typical 2019 plan sold through the HealthCare.gov exchange will still likely cost more than twice as much as the average individual market plan in 2013, the year before most Obamacare provisions went into effect.

 
When AOC proposed the GND and the 70% marginal tax rate - it seemed pretty clear to me that she was making bold proclamations to drastically change the course/starting point of the conversation. And to that end, she was highly successful.

I don't think she expected either of those to be the end point of where policy is officially enacted. So calling her an idiot for proposing starting points to the conversation seems off base.

At least that was the impression I got. 🤷‍♂️

 
Amused to Death said:
This is the good news?

Health & Human Services Secretary Alex Azar recently announced that premiums for a benchmark Affordable Care Act 2019 plan on the federal exchange will drop 2 percent nationally compared with 2018 premiums — the first reduction since the law's implementation.
 
While this is encouraging news, it is no cause for a major celebration. When Obamacare's exchanges open for business in just a few weeks, on Nov. 1, many consumers will still find exchange plans unaffordable. Rates will soar by double digitsin many states. Despite the slight decline in the national average premium, the typical 2019 plan sold through the HealthCare.gov exchange will still likely cost more than twice as much as the average individual market plan in 2013, the year before most Obamacare provisions went into effect.
Click to expand...
This is the structure that was built into the plan at inception.

It's a feature, not a bug.

 
Sand said:
This is the structure that was built into the plan at inception.

It's a feature, not a bug.
Click to expand...
And yet when we get into full 2020 campaign mode, Trump will still have done nothing but make our insurance worse.  The Dems are going to campaign on UHC and the GOP will have nothing to offer in contrast other than "believe me, its going to be great".  Voters are going to see that he's done nothing in 4 years.  The ACA is in worse shape now than when Trump took office, and the Dems will pounce on that.

Trump inherited a problem, campaigned on fixing it, and has made it worse with no alternative in sight.  That's what Trump owns. The Dems will at the very least be offering an alternative that has worked globally.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
NCCommish said:
You can't possibly know a cost until you know what is actually going to be done. 
Click to expand...
All we know is what she says.  One thing she seems to plan/desire is to replace airplanes with high speed trains.  We know how expensive those things can be from the California experience.    If it is just an empty promise like saying "I want world peace", it is a pretty condeming to your opinion of AOC.  

 
jon_mx said:
All we know is what she says.  One thing she seems to plan/desire is to replace airplanes with high speed trains.  We know how expensive those things can be from the California experience.    If it is just an empty promise like saying "I want world peace", it is a pretty condeming to your opinion of AOC.  
Click to expand...
Oh good Lord, this again?

 
NCCommish said:
You can't possibly know a cost until you know what is actually going to be done. 
Click to expand...
This is true.  Just think of how long it will take for the the permits to remodel every building in the US.  Much of those will run past the 12 years we have left, so I'm laying bets on "less".

 
Sand said:
This is true.  Just think of how long it will take for the the permits to remodel every building in the US.  Much of those will run past the 12 years we have left, so I'm laying bets on "less".
Click to expand...
Well see again there's obviously no way we're going to be able to remodel every building but retrofit yeah I think we can do some of that . Certainly there are a great many things we could do in a great many buildings that wouldn't require a lengthy permitting process and would save many many tons of carbon. This is why I keep saying we are going to have to wait to see what we can get through Congress and the Senate and whoever is president and how big those plans will be we probably will not be renovating every building in America.

 
sho nuff said:
Oh good Lord, this again?
Click to expand...
AOC:  "build out highspeed rail at a scale where air travel stops becoming necessary"

ME:  "she seems to plan/desire is to replace airplanes with high speed trains."

Exactly which word do you object too?  Seems like a very fair characterization of her position. 

 
AOC put a lot of specific details on what she wants to accomplish with her New Green Deal.  I am not sure what is wrong with evaluating it and assigning a rough cost too.  She also specifically states she wants credit for all this.  

 
jon_mx said:
AOC:  "build out highspeed rail at a scale where air travel stops becoming necessary"

ME:  "she seems to plan/desire is to replace airplanes with high speed trains."

Exactly which word do you object too?  Seems like a very fair characterization of her position. 
Click to expand...
Nobody wants to rehash...it’s all over this thread the discussion on this topic.

 
jon_mx said:
AOC:  "build out highspeed rail at a scale where air travel stops becoming necessary"

ME:  "she seems to plan/desire is to replace airplanes with high speed trains."

Exactly which word do you object too?  Seems like a very fair characterization of her position. 
Click to expand...
I'm with jon here.  What he said is fine and an accurate paraphrase of what AOC said. The problem is when people say she proposed eliminating air travel entirely, which she didn't. 

If I want to stock my kitchen to the point that ordering delivery food "stops becoming necessary," it means I want to replace the meals I'm currently getting through delivery out of necessity with home cooked meals when possible. It doesn't mean I want to eliminate the existence of a delivery option completely.

 
jon_mx said:
Rehash?  I want you to explain it because my wording was more than fair.  If you seriously object to that, i don't know what to say.  
Click to expand...
Yes rehash...as in this same conversation was had with another poster last night.

The word replace is the issue I have and the posts last night from me and others explain that.

 
Sand said:
As much as the blue team wants this to be true it just isn't.  There is a huge thread on this.  The economics of what OCare instituted could have been more cheaply implemented by simply paying outright for the additional people on the rolls.  That's just how bad the system put in place is.
Click to expand...
Is there anyone besides me who is sick to death of arguments like this?

i don’t ####### CARE who’s to blame for our healthcare woes. The question is: what should we do now? The Democrats appear to be debating several solutions, we’ll see which one is the most viable. The Republicans have offered nothing. In the 9 years since Obamacare passed the Republicans have offered no viable alternative. This fact alone makes me want to vote Democrat. 

 
timschochet said:
Is there anyone besides me who is sick to death of arguments like this?

i don’t ####### CARE who’s to blame for our healthcare woes. The question is: what should we do now? The Democrats appear to be debating several solutions, we’ll see which one is the most viable. The Republicans have offered nothing. In the 9 years since Obamacare passed the Republicans have offered no viable alternative. This fact alone makes me want to vote Democrat. 
Click to expand...
The Republicans got nothing because Obama used their plan.

 
TobiasFunke said:
I'm with jon here.  What he said is fine and an accurate paraphrase of what AOC said. The problem is when people say she proposed eliminating air travel entirely, which she didn't. 

If I want to stock my kitchen to the point that ordering delivery food "stops becoming necessary," it means I want to replace the meals I'm currently getting through delivery out of necessity with home cooked meals when possible. It doesn't mean I want to eliminate the existence of a delivery option completely.
Click to expand...
Why have you declared war on pizza???

 
NCCommish said:
The Republicans got nothing because Obama used their plan.
Click to expand...
Really I think the Republicans have nothing because they oppose taking money from richer and healthier people to pay for the care of sicker and poorer people.  And there's no way to make substantial fixes to the system without doing that.

 
jon_mx said:
AOC put a lot of specific details on what she wants to accomplish with her New Green Deal.  I am not sure what is wrong with evaluating it and assigning a rough cost too.  She also specifically states she wants credit for all this.  
Click to expand...
So like Mr. Hand putting Jeff Spicolli's words on the board, you want to leave this here for all your classes to enjoy, giving her full credit of course.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxPBDWjp1qM

 
Last edited by a moderator:
So for all the accountants figuring out how much the green New Deal will cost have you figured out how much not doing things in an expeditious manner is going to cost? It's estimated that climate change has already cost the u.s. nearly 400 billion dollars in the last 10 years it's further estimated that climate change will reduce GDP by at least 10% in the coming years for those at home right now with today's GDP that somewhere in the neighborhood of almost 2 trillion dollars per year so add the increased costs because we have to keep cleaning up after storms sure seems like this whole we don't want to spend any money thing isn't going to work out for us one way or the other. And by the way how much is Miami worth to you or  New Orleans or New York City how much are they worth when ocean levels rise and they find themselves engulfed in floods if not completely flooded how much do you think that's going to cost? How much do you think it's going to cost the US when the breadbasket moves into Canada? How much do you think these major floods in the midwest that have completely destroyed the corn crop how much do you think that's going to cost us as consumers and as a country?

If you ask me you guys need to be doing a lot of new calculations.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
NCCommish said:
So for all the accountants figuring out how much the green New Deal will cost have you figured out how much not doing things in an expeditious manner is going to cost? It's estimated that climate change has already cost the u.s. nearly 400 billion dollars in the last 10 years it's further estimated that climate change will reduce GDP by at least 10% in the coming years for those at home right now with today's GDP that somewhere in the neighborhood of almost 2 trillion dollars per year so add the increased costs because we have to keep cleaning up after storms sure seems like this whole we don't want to spend any money thing isn't going to work out for us one way or the other. And by the way how much is Miami worth to you or  New Orleans or New York City how much do they cities worth when ocean levels rise and they find themselves engulfed in floods if not completely flooded how much do you think that's going to cost? How much do you think it's going to cost the US when the breadbasket moves into Canada? How much do you think these major floods in the midwest that have completely destroyed the corn crop how much do you think that's going to cost us as consumers and as a country?

If you ask me you guys need to be doing a lot of new calculations.
Click to expand...
I'm [pretty wiling to give NYC back to the sea.  BTW, how high above sea level is Boston?

 
Sand said:
Heck, just the costs associated with universal health care have been deliberately crafted to be way too low.  The number quoted is the "lower bound" using several unrealistic assumptions - the real number is probably 1.5-2x higher.
Click to expand...
Except that the budgetary impact of single payer isn't the cost of single payer.  The cost (gross cost) is the net difference between the NHE if we do nothing and the NHE under Medicare for All plus any transitional costs not already counted.  The $36 trillion being added to the federal budget is mostly cost that are going to tax our economy either way.

 
timschochet said:
AOC disappoints me because, while her persona is young and fresh and new, all of her ideas so far are rather old, stale, and predictable. Given her widespread popularity she has the chance to be an innovator, but she’s simply repeating stuff that is pretty pat even for a progressive. 

If we could somehow transplant Andrew Yang’s brain into AOC, then we’d have something. 
Click to expand...
Thank you. Someone who recognizes something is there, but it's not all that it's being cracked up to be. She's neither the complete dolt one side is portraying as nor the future star the other side is propping her up as. She's simply great at social media and keeping her name in the news.

 
NCCommish said:
Dude she's been mentioned like 1700 times already on Fox. I didn't make that up someone counted . They've made whole days about her. From day one. 
Click to expand...
This is so 40-50 pages ago. Next thing you're going to tell us all is that FOX and the right are scared of her.

 
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
Except that the budgetary impact of single payer isn't the cost of single payer.  The cost (gross cost) is the net difference between the NHE if we do nothing and the NHE under Medicare for All plus any transitional costs not already counted.  The $36 trillion being added to the federal budget is mostly cost that are going to tax our economy either way.
Click to expand...
It is kind of silly she drags in so many different agendas under the umbrella of the green new deal.   The discussion of greenhouse emissions is huge enough without adding fair employment practices, unions, education, and health care.   The worst part of her proposal is she wants to shut down nuclear plants just because she does not like them, disregarding the fact those are by far our biggest source of green power.  

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

GordonGekko
Axios: Democrats Fear MAGA Republican Kari Lake Could Be Arizona's Next Governor (10/21/22 01:52 PST)
Replies
18
Views
774
Snotbubbles
Snotbubbles
GordonGekko
OP/ED: J6 Committee's Liz Cheney Embodies The Worst Character Traits Of Donald Trump (6/24/22 18:05 PST)
Replies
26
Views
804
GordonGekko
GordonGekko
GordonGekko
Should Ruth Bader Ginsburg Have Retired Before Her Passing To Protect Roe v Wade? (6/27/22 17:59 PST)
Replies
47
Views
1K
BladeRunner
BladeRunner

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 5 (members: 0, guests: 5)
Top