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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Thread

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5 hours ago, Skoo said:

Nope, I'm just noticing those that are in here ripping AOC on a daily basis are conspicuously missing from the impeachment topic.

Sorry, I will try and post more in here to expose AOC as the danger that she is.

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1 minute ago, Don't Noonan said:

Sorry, I will try and post more in here to expose AOC as the danger that she is.

Who is she a danger to?

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15 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Nobody is stopping you. Just don't spam every thread with it.

I am happy to see somebody else that wants to hold attorneys accountable for what they argue in a courtroom though. This world would be a better place if lawyers weren't free to say and do reprehensible things under the guise of just doing their job or that the jury or judge is who is supposed to decide the veracity of things, not them. Seems maybe AOC is right and more fact checking would be a good thing.

Turns out your post is quite applicable to the fact checking discussion!

I'm not. 

It's amazing this argument was made, along with Barr also stating Trump is above the law which is why there weren't any charges as the result of the Mueller investigation.  This before Trump this would have been the biggest story in the history or the country.  The founders were very clear on what the POTUS was to be as they just broke away from the very type of person that the AG and his attorney are claiming he is.

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3 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:
31 minutes ago, Sheriff Bart said:

No, I think we should be talking about how Trump's lawyer said the POTUS can murder Americans at will and there isn't anything legally we can do about it.  Kind of a big deal.

Great.  Do you think the AOC thread is the best place for that discussion?

He asked if impeachment was all we should talk about.  I replied.

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https://www.theblaze.com/news/aoc-claims-white-companies-helped-hurricanes-kill-off-black-and-brown-lives

 

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) blasted what she called "predominantly white" companies and corporations for their purported roles in exacerbating climate change.

Ocasio-Cortez slammed corporations for reportedly causing amped up storms that took the lives of "predominantly black and brown lives" in places such as Puerto Rico and Louisiana.

----------------

Fortunately most of her fireball racial rhetoric is religated to more fringe sources like the Blaze and the Hill these days.  

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20 hours ago, jon_mx said:

https://www.theblaze.com/news/aoc-claims-white-companies-helped-hurricanes-kill-off-black-and-brown-lives

 

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) blasted what she called "predominantly white" companies and corporations for their purported roles in exacerbating climate change.

Ocasio-Cortez slammed corporations for reportedly causing amped up storms that took the lives of "predominantly black and brown lives" in places such as Puerto Rico and Louisiana.

----------------

Fortunately most of her fireball racial rhetoric is religated to more fringe sources like the Blaze and the Hill these days.  

Do you disagree that most corporations are owned and operated primarily by white people?

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53 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Do you disagree that most corporations are owned and operated primarily by white people?

I find it particularly wrong to only focus on American-based corporations as the root of all evil responsible for global warming.  China has passed us years ago on CO2 emmissions and India probably will too.  Plus, the users bear a large share of responsibility.  We all consume electricity, heat our homes, drive our cars, mow our yards, etc.  So whether most companies in the US are 'owned' by white people is a pointless discussion.  We all have shared responsibilities for greenhouse gases.

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1 hour ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Do you disagree that most corporations are owned and operated primarily by white people?

Does it matter in this discussion at all?

Climate change is not a white conspiracy to keep brown people down.  It is the result of a society focused more on short term benefits than long term viability.  Making it a race issue is a horrible idea and counterproductive, unless her only aim is to pick fights to gain political clout with her target demographics.

White people dominating corporations is a result of our shameful history of slavery but it has nothing to do with our climate change issues.

Edited by Jayrod

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On ‎10‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 2:59 PM, jon_mx said:

https://www.theblaze.com/news/aoc-claims-white-companies-helped-hurricanes-kill-off-black-and-brown-lives

 

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) blasted what she called "predominantly white" companies and corporations for their purported roles in exacerbating climate change.

Ocasio-Cortez slammed corporations for reportedly causing amped up storms that took the lives of "predominantly black and brown lives" in places such as Puerto Rico and Louisiana.

----------------

Fortunately most of her fireball racial rhetoric is religated to more fringe sources like the Blaze and the Hill these days.  

This is where Cortez loses me and probably most moderate Dems.  Cortez is very divisive, not sure if it is done on purpose  or she does not think much before she speaks.  I mean she talks like a left congress version of Trump. 

Edited by Summer Wheat
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8 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

White people broke the planet, white people gotta fix it.

white people gonna whitewash

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15 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

White people broke the planet, white people gotta fix it.

The Lord loves a working man.  Don't trust whitey.  See a doctor and get rid of it.

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1 hour ago, jon_mx said:

I find it particularly wrong to only focus on American-based corporations as the root of all evil responsible for global warming.  China has passed us years ago on CO2 emmissions and India probably will too.  Plus, the users bear a large share of responsibility.  We all consume electricity, heat our homes, drive our cars, mow our yards, etc.  So whether most companies in the US are 'owned' by white people is a pointless discussion.  We all have shared responsibilities for greenhouse gases.

Sure...but a US congressperson is likey to be much more worried about the US than abroad...especially not being on any committees that would deal with such things.

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1 hour ago, sho nuff said:

Sure...but a US congressperson is likey to be much more worried about the US than abroad...especially not being on any committees that would deal with such things.

She is blaming US corporations for killing Brown and black people.  She is spewing hate not expressing concern. 

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9 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

She is blaming US corporations for killing Brown and black people.  She is spewing hate not expressing concern. 

She seems to be blaming them for Climate Change (or their role in Climate Change)...and attributing that to strengthened storms that did kill a large amount of brown and black people.

 

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19 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

She seems to be blaming them for Climate Change (or their role in Climate Change)...and attributing that to strengthened storms that did kill a large amount of brown and black people.

 

So if I accuse a drunk driver of causing an accident.  And three people died in that accident, I would not be blaming the drunk driver for the deaths?  

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57 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

So if I accuse a drunk driver of causing an accident.  And three people died in that accident, I would not be blaming the drunk driver for the deaths?  

I don't care for what she said, frankly.  However, using your analogy, perhaps this is like saying not only do a blame the drunk driver, I also blame the bartender who kept serving him after it was obvious he was wasted.

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that AOC comment is reckless and shows her immaturity IMO.  Fight the fight.  But leave that bs rhetoric out of it. 

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27 minutes ago, zoonation said:

that AOC comment is reckless and shows her immaturity IMO.  Fight the fight.  But leave that bs rhetoric out of it. 

It's also counter-productive.  Nothing is going to happen on climate change until you win over centrists and reasonable conservatives.  (For example, McCain at one time made an issue out of climate change).  Taking the case for fighting climate change and infusing it with racial rhetoric makes that basically impossible to achieve.  

It's not that she's entirely wrong.  The industrialized west (mostly white) along with China and India (not white) are the ones most responsible for climate change.  The people who are going to be hit hardest by climate change are the people in the global south (mostly brown, and ironically including a bunch of people in India too).  But this is yet another example of her being needless inflammatory in a way that undermines what she's hoping to achieve.

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1 hour ago, IvanKaramazov said:

It's also counter-productive.  Nothing is going to happen on climate change until you win over centrists and reasonable conservatives.  (For example, McCain at one time made an issue out of climate change).  Taking the case for fighting climate change and infusing it with racial rhetoric makes that basically impossible to achieve.  

It's not that she's entirely wrong.  The industrialized west (mostly white) along with China and India (not white) are the ones most responsible for climate change.  The people who are going to be hit hardest by climate change are the people in the global south (mostly brown, and ironically including a bunch of people in India too).  But this is yet another example of her being needless inflammatory in a way that undermines what she's hoping to achieve.

Agreed, and the bolded is my problem with her (and others as well): she seems to have no interest in winning over conservatives and centrists.  Most of the time I get the impression that she has no use or time for anyone who doesn't agree with whatever she is talking about that particular day, and that includes moderate Democrats. 

Edited by Ghost Rider
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11 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

Most of the time I get the impression that she has no use or time for anyone who doesn't agree with whatever she is talking about that particular day, and that includes moderate Democrats. 

I agree with this perspective, and in my opinion it shows a great deal of immaturity that she often seems only interested in her own viewpoint.  At first I found her refreshing, but the bloom is off the rose a bit.  She's still young, and I haven't given up on her - god knows I was more of an immature jerk at that age, too, though I also wasn't responsible for representing a constituency in the public eye.  As a couple of people have pointed out, she might sometimes be counter-productive to her causes at this point.

ETA:  Mr krista and I have argued these points a few time, as he's still a big supporter.  Could be because she's still hot, though.

Edited by krista4
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7 minutes ago, krista4 said:

I agree with this perspective, and in my opinion it shows a great deal of immaturity that she often seems only interested in her own viewpoint.  At first I found her refreshing, but the bloom is off the rose a bit.  She's still young, and I haven't given up on her - god knows I was more of an immature jerk at that age, too, though I also wasn't responsible for representing a constituency in the public eye.  As a couple of people have pointed out, she might sometimes be counter-productive to her causes at this point.

ETA:  Mr krista and I have argued these points a few time, as he's still a big supporter.  Could be because she's still hot, though.

This captures how I feel about her.  I loved her at first, and found her refreshingly genuine.  She caught some wind in the sail and has decided to get a bigger sail without really knowing how to operate it.  She reminds me a bit of myself in that she has a tendency to use antagonistic language to drive a point across, and it just detracts from the conversation.  Someday I will learn.  She is smarter than me and in a position where she gets immediate blow-back from her statements, so I'm hopeful she will learn faster.

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Far less stupid than the freshman conservatives we’ve  had to deal with. Climate change is real. It’s effects In our lifetimes will be felt mostly by the poor. Profits being taken by ignoring these facts are mostly white folks.

Her delivery may need massaging but she isn’t wrong. 

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5 minutes ago, Dickies said:

This captures how I feel about her.  I loved her at first, and found her refreshingly genuine.  She caught some wind in the sail and has decided to get a bigger sail without really knowing how to operate it.  She reminds me a bit of myself in that she has a tendency to use antagonistic language to drive a point across, and it just detracts from the conversation.  Someday I will learn.  She is smarter than me and in a position where she gets immediate blow-back from her statements, so I'm hopeful she will learn faster.

The bold is a perfect way to put it.  She doesn't know what she doesn't know yet.  I'm still hopeful, too.

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5 hours ago, zoonation said:

that AOC comment is reckless and shows her immaturity IMO.  Fight the fight.  But leave that bs rhetoric out of it. 

She is one and done

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11 hours ago, Dickies said:
12 hours ago, krista4 said:

I agree with this perspective, and in my opinion it shows a great deal of immaturity that she often seems only interested in her own viewpoint.  At first I found her refreshing, but the bloom is off the rose a bit.  She's still young, and I haven't given up on her - god knows I was more of an immature jerk at that age, too, though I also wasn't responsible for representing a constituency in the public eye.  As a couple of people have pointed out, she might sometimes be counter-productive to her causes at this point.

ETA:  Mr krista and I have argued these points a few time, as he's still a big supporter.  Could be because she's still hot, though.

This captures how I feel about her.  I loved her at first, and found her refreshingly genuine.  She caught some wind in the sail and has decided to get a bigger sail without really knowing how to operate it.  She reminds me a bit of myself in that she has a tendency to use antagonistic language to drive a point across, and it just detracts from the conversation.  Someday I will learn.  She is smarter than me and in a position where she gets immediate blow-back from her statements, so I'm hopeful she will learn faster.

She's not all that different than any of us when we were beginning our careers is she?  We thought idealistically.  We pushed for new things in our lines of work.  We were met with blowback.  I've seen it a billion times...it seems to be the circle of employment.  We hit the ground running then over time realize that the real world and our ideals don't really mesh with each other.  Over time we realize pushing the ideal is probably not as productive as becoming pragmatic, looking at the system and trying to figure out how to work in the system.  All this is why I never really gave (or give) her more than a :rolleyes: with some of her absurd comments.  The more she throws out there to be pushed back on, the quicker that process will go.  She's not "the voice" for an entire party.  She's not an existential threat to humanity.  She's an idealist just beginning her career.  We don't even know if she'll make it beyond her first term.  She's that poker player just starting a tournament.  She may very well go all in on day 2 and be escorted out as a result.  All depends on how she plays the hands she's dealt.  

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On 10/29/2019 at 10:46 AM, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Do you disagree that most corporations are owned and operated primarily by white people?

I actually wonder if this is true. I don't know the % of ownership in china, India, brazil, indonesia, pakistan, nigeria, bangladesh, japan, etc. If you are technically saying that chinese companies or indonesian companies don't meet some canned definition of corporation then sure you are correct. 

But to isolate things to a POC vs white people argument is absurd on so many levels. So many factors involved. Especially when talking about deaths. 

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20 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

I actually wonder if this is true. I don't know the % of ownership in china, India, brazil, indonesia, pakistan, nigeria, bangladesh, japan, etc. If you are technically saying that chinese companies or indonesian companies don't meet some canned definition of corporation then sure you are correct. 

But to isolate things to a POC vs white people argument is absurd on so many levels. So many factors involved. Especially when talking about deaths. 

I'm curious, how would you feel if she made the comparison of rich vs. poor instead of white vs. POC?  To me, there seems to be more truth to the former.  The rich largely reap the financial benefits of damaging the environment while the poor are much more likely to live in areas that can be effected (for example, think about the poor areas flooded in New Orleans while the higher, richer areas suffered much less damage).  It's not a perfectly true statement but I think it is still fair.

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On 10/28/2019 at 11:59 AM, jon_mx said:

https://www.theblaze.com/news/aoc-claims-white-companies-helped-hurricanes-kill-off-black-and-brown-lives

 

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) blasted what she called "predominantly white" companies and corporations for their purported roles in exacerbating climate change.

Ocasio-Cortez slammed corporations for reportedly causing amped up storms that took the lives of "predominantly black and brown lives" in places such as Puerto Rico and Louisiana.

----------------

Fortunately most of her fireball racial rhetoric is religated to more fringe sources like the Blaze and the Hill these days.  

This is why we can't get people to take climate change seriously.

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1 hour ago, Chicago Hooligan said:

78% of the vote btw

Get ready to stay mad in this thread for a long time.

Edited by Gopher State

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23 hours ago, Juxtatarot said:

I'm curious, how would you feel if she made the comparison of rich vs. poor instead of white vs. POC?  To me, there seems to be more truth to the former.  The rich largely reap the financial benefits of damaging the environment while the poor are much more likely to live in areas that can be effected (for example, think about the poor areas flooded in New Orleans while the higher, richer areas suffered much less damage).  It's not a perfectly true statement but I think it is still fair.

I would still be against the rhetoric. Nothing takes place in a vacuum. Making environmental damage into a rich vs poor thing or black vs white thing is a foolish endeavor. Everybody at every level makes decisions to disregard sound advice or to selfishly damage the environment for their own benefit. 

It is like when the reports come out blaming certain industry segments for X% of greenhouse gases. As if those industries aren't relied upon and used every day by the american public all across the country. If we didn't fill up our cars, they couldn't blame Exxon. 

You bring up Katrina, but how on earth can a determination be made regarding such a topic? We know that tons of those areas have gone down in population by large %'s. People moved away. So were they forced to live in those areas? Many would argue that the system was set up against them so they had no choice. Many would argue it was in fact their choice. Many would say that it was too little government funding kept them in those areas. Many would argue that without wealthy people paying taxes that government funding wouldn't even exist. I could go on and on naming silly back and forth arguments that shouldn't be brought up when it comes to climate change.

Everybody does stupid stuff to the environment. From the ceo of a big company to the 12$/hr worker that forgot to close a valve. From the rich guy in malibu in his gas guzzling yacht to the poor guy that was driving through and flicked a cigarette out the window. From the manufacturer of a chemical to the person that dumps the last bit down the drain when they are done using it. From the manufacturer of bottled water to the driver distributing it to the person drinking it.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Of course she does. Vote pandering at its finest. 

The bolded would imply that she doesn't believe what she is saying here. Is that your opinion?

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39 minutes ago, John Blutarsky said:

AOC backs anti-cop protesters who jumped subway turnstiles in New York

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/aoc-backs-anti-cop-protesters-who-jumped-subway-turnstiles-in-new-york

From reading a few minutes on this, I get the impression that she's backing the purposes of the protest (a crackdown on fare evasion and allegations of police brutality), not the anti-cop rhetoric.  

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12 minutes ago, timschochet said:

The bolded would imply that she doesn't believe what she is saying here. Is that your opinion?

Correct. I dont think she thinks people should be able to just hop the turnstiles whenever they want. If she truly was concerned about these riders she would have probably done some outreach to her twitter followers to let them know about the very underpublicized half fare cards that are available instead of advocating for stealing. 

Wonder if she would have just let people run away with free fish tacos at her last job.

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46 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Correct. I dont think she thinks people should be able to just hop the turnstiles whenever they want. If she truly was concerned about these riders she would have probably done some outreach to her twitter followers to let them know about the very underpublicized half fare cards that are available instead of advocating for stealing. 

Wonder if she would have just let people run away with free fish tacos at her last job.

That's not the same thing though. The real question here is if she is in favor of people disrupting what is ordinarily acceptable behavior in order to protest what they regard as wrongdoing. I would suggest that, based on her history of arguments, the people she admires, and the history of the progressive movement in this country, she is.

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57 minutes ago, timschochet said:

That's not the same thing though. The real question here is if she is in favor of people disrupting what is ordinarily acceptable behavior in order to protest what they regard as wrongdoing. I would suggest that, based on her history of arguments, the people she admires, and the history of the progressive movement in this country, she is.

Nope. The real question is if she is in favor of people jumping turnstiles in new york. 

"Arresting people who can’t afford a $2.75 fare makes no one safer and destabilizes our community."

In the video, protesters are shown helping each other jump turnstiles without paying the fare

Edited by parasaurolophus
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3 hours ago, Juxtatarot said:

From reading a few minutes on this, I get the impression that she's backing the purposes of the protest (a crackdown on fare evasion and allegations of police brutality), not the anti-cop rhetoric.  

That is nice of you to assume.  But by putting out statements which are generally supportive of the anti-police demonstrations, AOC appears to be condoning the vandalism against police cars and the ugly rhetoric.  

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2 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

Nope. The real question is if she is in favor of people jumping turnstiles in new york. 

"Arresting people who can’t afford a $2.75 fare makes no one safer and destabilizes our community."

In the video, protesters are shown helping each other jump turnstiles without paying the fare

I think there is a lot more nuance to it.

Im no AOC fan (at ALL), but one can suggest that ruining a life over a petty crime, especially considering how far worse (white collar) crimes go nearly if not totally unpunished, is not in society’s interests. 
 

Having an economy where some may not be able to afford even mass transit to get to employment is not in society's interest (yes, I recognize this is a small subset of those who might jump - but we are taking layers of nuance).

I don’t see AOC blanket supporting the jumping of turnstyles unless I’m missing something that she said. 

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40 minutes ago, Koya said:

I think there is a lot more nuance to it.

Im no AOC fan (at ALL), but one can suggest that ruining a life over a petty crime, especially considering how far worse (white collar) crimes go nearly if not totally unpunished, is not in society’s interests. 
 

Having an economy where some may not be able to afford even mass transit to get to employment is not in society's interest (yes, I recognize this is a small subset of those who might jump - but we are taking layers of nuance).

I don’t see AOC blanket supporting the jumping of turnstyles unless I’m missing something that she said. 

Saying it is more nuanced than that but then typing the bold is strange. It is a $100 fine. 

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16 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Saying it is more nuanced than that but then typing the bold is strange. It is a $100 fine. 

Apparently it’s also about this incident that went viral.

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23 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Saying it is more nuanced than that but then typing the bold is strange. It is a $100 fine. 

That’s a more than fair point (and I didn’t realize it was that low).  
 

Of course, there is legitimate fear that during the course of an arrest things go wrong, which as I understand it was part of the protest (police brutality). Unless I am mixing up threads.

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20 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

Apparently it’s also about this incident that went viral.

That actually makes her tweet even worse since that isnt a case of fare evasion because he couldnt afford it. That was fare evasion because he jumped over the turnstile while cops were chasing him. 

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4 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

That actually makes her tweet even worse since that isnt a case of fare evasion because he couldnt afford it. That was fare evasion because he jumped over the turnstile while cops were chasing him. 

 

I missed the part about the cops chasing the guy but I’ll take your word for it.

Anyway, I think the issue stems from a distrust of police. There is concern that having cops stationed to bust people for fare evasion can lead to situations that get out of control — like an Eric Gardner situation or, perhaps, what some people perceived happened in that video.  There is concern that terrible events could occur over a minor infraction — perhaps even one that could have occurred due to a financial necessity.

It’s a complex situation. I don’t really have much of an opinion on it overall. I just don’t think the initial criticism of AOC backing “anti-cop” protestors is fair.  It’s possible posters might define “anti-cop” differently than I do, however.

 

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7 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

 

I missed the part about the cops chasing the guy but I’ll take your word for it.

Anyway, I think the issue stems from a distrust of police. There is concern that having cops stationed to bust people for fare evasion can lead to situations that get out of control — like an Eric Gardner situation or, perhaps, what some people perceived happened in that video.  There is concern that terrible events could occur over a minor infraction — perhaps even one that could have occurred due to a financial necessity.

It’s a complex situation. I don’t really have much of an opinion on it overall. I just don’t think the initial criticism of AOC backing “anti-cop” protestors is fair.  It’s possible posters might define “anti-cop” differently than I do, however.

 

If you click on the hyperlinked "viral" in the article you posted that takes you to the twitter thread of the video. The guy that posted the video also tweeted about nbc new yorks story on it, thanking them for covering it. 

In that article it states that he was approached outside the subway because it was reported he had a gun(turned out he didnt when they caught him). He ran. They chased him. He jumped a turnstyle and ran into the platform area and onto a train in an effort to escape police capture. 

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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez‏ @AOC 5h5 hours ago

It’s only when we talk about acting on climate do some ask,“how are you going to pay for it?”

As though climate inaction doesn’t have a price tag.

As though the Midwest didn’t flood.

As though California isn’t on fire.

As though 1000s didn’t die in María.

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1193273344138891264

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