Perhaps you should read the article. The change has started to occurred more rapidly in the last 5 years, but that is why I said 'currently'. Certainly no one suggests AOC is the sole reason for this shift, but she does appears to be leading the charge right now.
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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Thread (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter JohnnyU
- Start date
the moops
Footballguy
Yes
"Since 2014, the percentage of Democrats identifying as liberal has increased at an even faster rate of two points per year on average," wrote Gallup's Lydia Saad of the numbers.
John Blutarsky
Footballguy
AOC riles Dems by refusing to pay party dues, bankrolling colleagues' opponents
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/aoc-riles-dems-by-refusing-to-pay-party-dues-bankrolling-her-colleagues-opponents
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/aoc-riles-dems-by-refusing-to-pay-party-dues-bankrolling-her-colleagues-opponents
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Raised more money that any other dem in the house last quarter.
But she is just a first year. Low level. No power.
Eta: have zero problem with her not paying those "dues".
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Juxtatarot
Footballguy
It's funny to me that FoxNews decided PETA criticizing AOC for buying a purebred instead of a rescue dog should be on its front page. Who else would they give PETA front page press for? It's probably a very short list.
(For the record, it is an odd choice politically by AOC. Although it probably won't matter all that much.)
(For the record, it is an odd choice politically by AOC. Although it probably won't matter all that much.)
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Things change. Positive feelings toward "socialism" are already on the rise among younger voters, many of whom realize that what many conservatives in this country call "socialism" really isn't.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Frenchie's are high end dogs in terms of cost and prestige. Many going for well over 2K. Cortez is making good money so she can spend it on whatever she pleases.
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
Sorry if a re-post but I just happened to see this:
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez mentioned 3,181 times on Fox in six weeks: ‘We have an AOC segment every single day’
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez mentioned 3,181 times on Fox in six weeks: ‘We have an AOC segment every single day’
Mario Kart
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Conversely, people magazine, the guardian, and huffpost wrote stories about her adorable new puppy.Juxtatarot said:
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I guess we should never be surprised when media outlets give the readers what they want.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
It's like her own version of drain the swamp.
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
AOC got into office herself being funded against an incumbent Dem. I guess we are eating our own now.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Classic Socialist. When they talk about people "paying their fair share", they're always talking about YOU, not them. Look at all the Socialist countries in history - there is the top 1% Party leaders (like, uhm, AOC) living off the hog paying absolutely nothing and then everyone else suffering and dying BUT paying for everything, including with their lives.AOC wearing out her welcome with establishment Dems.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I agree, she’s trying to enjoy the benefits of DNC affiliation while not accepting the burden.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
$250K? How much do they make?
John Blutarsky
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Although imperfect, modern day Western Europe and Scandinavia are probably better comps than Venezuela or whatever other countries you’re thinking of.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
And those European and Scandinavian countries will be the first to tell you they are NOT Socialist countries as they are being portrayed here in the US.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
In some ways, yes. Much of what Sanders, AOC, etc. want to do though is modeled after those countries.
Sand
Footballguy
Some, perhaps. But there is a lot of misinformation about what the policies are in these countries. I'd recommend reading this. It goes into great detail on this subject.
As an aside it still amazes me how profound the effects of WWII were and how we're still seeing this now. These countries shifted to these systems (and have largely shifted away from socialistic tendencies since) due to the populace desire for safety and security after getting overrun during the war.
Not anywhere near the level of DiCaprio hypocrisy, but we see this all the time from politicians - these rules of behavior that are set are intended for the masses. As the ruling class they're immune - they're above such things.
Skoo
Footballguy
The freshman congresswoman with a 188-page thread is going nowhere?
How many other freshman congressman have a 100+ page thread dedicated to them?
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
True, but you have to take into consideration like most of the threads in the PSF it is only about 20 people who contribute 80% of the content.
Probably the one which raises more money than every other congressma and was the most coveted endorsement by the Democratic presidential candidates. Why do you guys spend so much time denying that she is by far the most influential Democrat member of congress outside of Pelosi. It is laughable.
the moops
Footballguy
Did you quote the wrong post? Skoo is clearly saying that she isn't going anywhere and his evidence was the fact that there is a huge discussion going on about her.
But to your other point, I am unsure why some here on the left try and downplay her influence. It is immense, IMO.
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
I agree that she is very influential. I think sometimes I've pushed back on claims that she's basically running the Democratic Party. She has a lot more "soft" power (ability to influence discussion and mobilize citizens) than she does "hard" power (like chairing a Committee or having a genuine leadership position in the party).
The GOP disdain for her helps her popularity tremendously. Other than Pelosi, I think I see her face in more memes by the Trump supporters on my Facebook page than anyone else. You would think she was the speaker or was the leader of a major committee. They actually make her way more important than she is. I bet she loves it. You can't put a price tag on that kind of promotion.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Something like 40% of adults don't have an opinion of AOC or don't even know who she is. She has influence but let's not get carried away.
timschochet
Footballguy
We're about to find out.
Apparently she is Bernie Sanders' main surrogate in Iowa. She is going to be doing everything she can to try and get Bernie over the top while he is tied up in the impeachment trial. So it will be interesting to see how effective she is.
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
That is only slightly less than Pelosi and slightly more than Mitch McConnell, so I am not sure what that proves. 50 percent of Adults don't vote. Besides just influencing several percent is enough to swing an election.
Pick another member of the house of representatives at random and it would most likely be over 90%
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Right, it doesn’t prove anything.
I’m glad you wrote the last couple sentences. I haven’t read this whole debate on influence and hadn’t seen anyone quantify it.
I’m trying to think what elections she could influence enough to swing. Maybe some local races and Congressional Democratic primaries in heavily urban, progressive districts. But that’s probably it. Anything statewide she might have a negative effect by rallying those that dislike her.
timschochet
Footballguy
As I wrote this is about to be tested in real time. At least one poll has Bernie in the lead. Most have him in a close 2nd or 3rd place, and a large chunk of Iowa says they’re undecided. So AOC could possibly have a significant impact.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
The problem is it will be hard to quantify her effect. If Bernie does well or poorly how much is due to AOC?
I’m sure she’ll draw crowds and people will be interested in seeing her. Will they change their vote to Bernie accordingly? I’m sure some will but I suspect she’ll mainly be preaching to the choir (so to speak). And again, some might be turned off — “you know, I kinda like Bernie and think he cares about the little man, but I’m not Socialist!”
She has given Bernie a big lift. Could help influence who the next President is. Right now Bernie is the only one with a chance to take out Biden, and AOC has played an important role in that.
timschochet
Footballguy
Well she ought to have a more positive effect, I would think, in a caucus situation than she might in a primary. Caucuses tend to bring out more of the true believer types.
timschochet
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
AOC does not have close to the influence those obsessed with her think she has. It is all wishful thinking that she is the "kingmaker" among Democrats.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
I dont think anybody is saying she is the kingmaker.
But only an ostrich would argue that the rep that raised the most money last qtr, has a Netflix documentary, gets mentioned in the press just for buying a dog, and has the most social media followers isn't in the discussion for most influential democrat rep.
I mean seriously how does this even become a debate? Head in the sand is the only way to take the opposite side of that.
I get wanting to pretend she is just some nobody when she says dumb things, but facts are facts lets move on from this.
squistion
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Wait....I thought the talking point was that AOC lost all her pazazz when her puppeteer bailed and stopped supporting her? Is she "back"??!?!?!?!?!?!
This bizarre obsession where she's the key to all success of these candidates when they are doing well, then nary a mention of her when they are doing poorly is bizarre...entertaining, but bizarre.
This bizarre obsession where she's the key to all success of these candidates when they are doing well, then nary a mention of her when they are doing poorly is bizarre...entertaining, but bizarre.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
If she was kingmaker in his eyes there wouldnt be an if.
Jon is saying she is closer to a kingmaker for democrats than a nobody. Jon is correct.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Can we get to the key to this whole debate? Because in the end it’s not even about AOC. The real question is: how far to the left are Democrats??
Conservatives would like to believe that Democrats are VERY far to the left. Therefore AOC is a big influence, a big power.
Liberals would like to believe that Democrats mostly represent the center, while Republicans are far to the right. Therefore AOC is an anomaly, well meaning but not really representative of any large movement.
I suspect, like @parasaurolophus I think, that the truth lies somewhere in between. But we will know a lot more when the nominee has been chosen.
Conservatives would like to believe that Democrats are VERY far to the left. Therefore AOC is a big influence, a big power.
Liberals would like to believe that Democrats mostly represent the center, while Republicans are far to the right. Therefore AOC is an anomaly, well meaning but not really representative of any large movement.
I suspect, like @parasaurolophus I think, that the truth lies somewhere in between. But we will know a lot more when the nominee has been chosen.
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