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JohnnyU

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Thread

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1 minute ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

He never offered Bernie Sanders $10k to come on his show.

My guess is to start from the bottom up.  I'm pretty sure Shapiro would make Sanders look just as silly.

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Just now, JohnnyU said:

I won't go into the details that have been discussed at nauseam as to why socialism fails because it's been discussed all over the place in this forum.   If you think it has merit that is on you.

The socialism you are talking about is not what she is talking about.

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3 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Of course, that is why I know he would destroy her.  You don't have to worry about that however because not in a million years would she debate Ben Shapiro.

Not disputing any of that.  I am just saying that we are listening to a different podcast if you think the intent is just to "have a talk on his show" is all.   His approach isn't really the best way to get somebody to engage in a debate with you.  

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Just now, Dickies said:

The socialism you are talking about is not what she is talking about.

Whatever it is it won't fly to most Americans between the two coasts and never will.  Hell, even Obama wouldn't endorse this idiot. 

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10 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

If he really believes his ideas for the country are superior to hers and he can convince an audience of that he should run for Congress and have a chance to debate her and present his ideas for months on end. Surely a prominent right wing pundit can handle that.

Love you GB, but this is a losing argument.  He shouldn't have to rent an apartment and run for Congress to debate her, but it would be nice if he reached out to her directly without all the hoopla.

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2 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Not disputing any of that.  I am just saying that we are listening to a different podcast if you think the intent is just to "have a talk on his show" is all.   His approach isn't really the best way to get somebody to engage in a debate with you.  

Having her on his show to discuss political issues is what it is.  She won't do it.

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Just now, toshiba said:

Define success

I'll much rather define failure.   Besides, it's already been discussed in many threads.  We all know it fails.

Edited by JohnnyU

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Just now, JohnnyU said:

Whatever it is it won't fly to most Americans between the two coasts and never will.  Hell, even Obama wouldn't endorse this idiot. 

Because most Americans between the coasts are morons.  The conservatives' own study on socialized healthcare concluded it would save $2T over 10 years.  Instead they run with socialized healthcare costing $32T, ignoring that it would cost $34T if we keep our current model.

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Maybe he should host Trump. Because He’d wipe the floor with Trump even more so if he weren’t a GOP ####.

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Just now, Jobber said:

Maybe he should host Trump. Because He’d wipe the floor with Trump even more so if he weren’t a GOP ####.

 

Just now, Jobber said:

Maybe he should host Trump. Because He’d wipe the floor with Trump even more so if he weren’t a GOP ####.

What does that have to do with Ocasio-Cortez?

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To me, the most significant aspect of this is that conservatives see an advantage to propping this woman up as the new face of the Democrats. As would some progressives out there. 

But I remain convinced that the majority of Democratic voters are somewhere to the right of Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. 

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3 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I'll much rather define failure.   Besides, it's already been discussed in many threads.  We all know it fails.

I'd much rather use correct terms, but socialism in the manner in which the Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez is more closely defined as compassionate capitalism or democratic socialism, similar to the very successful Nordic countries.

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

To me, the most significant aspect of this is that conservatives see an advantage to propping this woman up as the new face of the Democrats. As would some progressives out there. 

But I remain convinced that the majority of Democratic voters are somewhere to the right of Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. 

Yes most are right to the left most part of the party, not a huge leap to say you'd have to admit.

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1 minute ago, toshiba said:

Yes most are right to the left most part of the party, not a huge leap to say you'd have to admit.

Oh I think her ideas (which aren’t really socialist whatever she calls herself) are going to take over the party in a few years. But not quite yet. 

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Just now, timschochet said:

To me, the most significant aspect of this is that conservatives see an advantage to propping this woman up as the new face of the Democrats. As would some progressives out there. 

But I remain convinced that the majority of Democratic voters are somewhere to the right of Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. 

I agree.  Any smart democrat would be somewhere to the right of Cortez.  There is no way in God's green earth the democrats can succed if they are this far left.  Americans don't want a socialist agenda for crying out loud.  If the democrats were smart they would disassociate themselves from Mrs. Cortez and come up with an agenda that appeals to the working class of middle America.  I don't think they can because of identify politics.

 

3 minutes ago, toshiba said:

I'd much rather use correct terms, but socialism in the manner in which the Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez is more closely defined as compassionate capitalism or democratic socialism, similar to the very successful Nordic countries.

Do some research on those Nordic countries now ;)

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1 minute ago, JohnnyU said:

I agree.  Any smart democrat would be somewhere to the right of Cortez.  

That’s not exactly what I wrote. 

Cortez’s two biggest issues, the ones that she is the most “socialist” about, are healthcare and education. If you don’t think we’re headed toward universal healthcare you’re dreaming. The minute we removed pre-existing conditions we were on a one way trip to eventual Medicare for all and there’s no way off. 

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1 minute ago, JohnnyU said:

I agree.  Any smart democrat would be somewhere to the right of Cortez.  There is no way in God's green earth the democrats can succed if they are this far left.  Americans don't want a socialist agenda for crying out loud.  If the democrats were smart they would disassociate themselves from Mrs. Cortez and come up with an agenda that appeals to the working class of middle America.  I don't think they can because of identify politics.

Her agenda should appeal to working and middle class Americans.

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Your problem, JohnnyU, is that you think Americans are going to hear the word “socialism” and always be repelled. And that’s been true for 100 years and it’s true right now. But it may be true ten years from now. Times are changing rapidly. Trump’s tariffs and tax cuts for the wealthy aren’t providing long term answers for the middle class and most people know it. 

Personally I think we’re headed for another FDR type who is going to give us SOME socialism. 

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14 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Do some research on those Nordic countries now ;)

I have and I say they have been successful.  But that is why I asked you to define success.

Edited by toshiba

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1 minute ago, Dickies said:

Her agenda should appeal to working and middle class Americans.

I don't think so.  Not only has she failed with her attempts in recent primaries (look it up), but middle America are happy with low unemployment,of 3.9, more jobs for manufacturing, and the desire for border security.   Do you really think these people are going to listen to her?

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1 minute ago, JohnnyU said:

I don't think so.  Not only has she failed with her attempts in recent primaries (look it up), but middle America are happy with low unemployment,of 3.9, more jobs for manufacturing, and the desire for border security.   Do you really think these people are going to listen to her?

Yeah I do. Eventually. Because the unemployment numbers don’t have long term stability, because the manufacturing jobs aren’t coming back, and because “border security” is a mirage that won’t improve anybody’s life. 

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10 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Your problem, JohnnyU, is that you think Americans are going to hear the word “socialism” and always be repelled. And that’s been true for 100 years and it’s true right now. But it may be true ten years from now. Times are changing rapidly. Trump’s tariffs and tax cuts for the wealthy aren’t providing long term answers for the middle class and most people know it. 

Personally I think we’re headed for another FDR type who is going to give us SOME socialism. 

I think Americans see what the economy is and what Trump is doing well.  They can ignore, and will ignore the other stuff.  I don't like Trump on a lot of stuff.  I am for abortion.  I believe in evolution. However, the things i care most about such as the economy, freedom of speech, and border security outweighs all the things I don't like about Trump.   You can grill me for that all you want, but I think I speak for most Americans between the two coasts.  Until the Democratic party separates itself from identify politics and starts to appeal to most Americans, they will continue to lose ground to the Republicans. 

Edited by JohnnyU

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2 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Yeah I do. Eventually. Because the unemployment numbers don’t have long term stability, because the manufacturing jobs aren’t coming back, and because “border security” is a mirage that won’t improve anybody’s life. 

I think a LOT of those jobs are coming back (Obama said they wouldn't) and the unemployment is so good, the Democrats better have more on their agenda than just Trump hate.

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1 hour ago, JohnnyU said:

Shapiro has offered her $10,000 to her campaign or the charity of her choice to come on to his show for an hour to discuss political topics.  My guess is that she refuses, but in the event she accepts, not only would he wipe the floor with her but it would be very entertaining.

 

Edited to put the "t" in event, lol.

 

 

He couldn't beat Ben Stein

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1 hour ago, TobiasFunke said:

Still waiting for you to explain why he doesn’t rent a cheap apartment andrun for Congress in her district so he can debate her with actual stakes.  Any time now ...

I'm pretty sure the deadline has passed to get on the ballot. I'm also pretty sure that running for Congress is a major pain in the butt. (And it's even worse if you end up winning.)

If he wants to debate her, he should offer to debate her. If he wants to run for Congress, he should run for Congress. It can be just one or the other -- it doesn't have to be both or neither.

Of course, she's free to refuse his offer.

If they can agree to the ground rules, however, she shouldn't refuse it. It would be a worthwhile discussion. (But he should pay way more than $10K.)

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1 minute ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

I'm pretty sure the deadline has passed to get on the ballot. I'm also pretty sure that running for Congress is a major pain in the butt.

If he wants to debate someone, he should offer to debate her. If he wants to run for Congress, he can run for Congress. It can be just one or the other -- it doesn't have to be both or neither.

Of course, she's free to refuse his offer.

But if they can agree to the ground rules, she shouldn't refuse it. It would be a worthwhile discussion. (But he should pay way more than $10K.)

Not sure if he should pay more than the 10K, but my guess is that he would.  It doesn't matter because no way in hell she would debate Ben Shapiro. 

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1 minute ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

I'm pretty sure the deadline has passed to get on the ballot. I'm also pretty sure that running for Congress is a major pain in the butt. (And it's even worse if you end up winning.)

If he wants to debate her, he should offer to debate her. If he wants to run for Congress, he should run for Congress. It can be just one or the other -- it doesn't have to be both or neither.

Of course, she's free to refuse his offer.

But if they can agree to the ground rules, she shouldn't refuse it. It would be a worthwhile discussion. (But he should pay way more than $10K.)

They have different goals.  He is an entertainer who is trying to line his pockets, she seems like someone who wants to try and make life better for her constituents.  His offer of money is probably not the motivation he thinks it is for her.

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Just now, JohnnyU said:

Not sure if he should pay more than the 10K, but my guess is that he would.  It doesn't matter because no way in hell she would debate Ben Shapiro. 

I assume he's offering to debate her on his podcast and he'd sell ads. Or that he'd rent out an auditorium and sell tickets. Either way, he'd make way more than $10K doing that.

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3 minutes ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

I'm pretty sure the deadline has passed to get on the ballot. I'm also pretty sure that running for Congress is a major pain in the butt. (And it's even worse if you end up winning.)

If he wants to debate her, he should offer to debate her. If he wants to run for Congress, he should run for Congress. It can be just one or the other -- it doesn't have to be both or neither.

Of course, she's free to refuse his offer.

But if they can agree to the ground rules, she shouldn't refuse it. It would be a worthwhile discussion. (But he should pay way more than $10K.)

I think she should charge him a 100,000 free. That way she wins regardless of outcome

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Just now, Maurile Tremblay said:

I assume he's offering to debate her on his podcast and he'd sell ads. Or that he'd rent out an auditorium and sell tickets. Either way, he'd make way more than $10K doing that.

He also offered to donate 10K to charity to debate her for an hour.  It doesn't matter because she would never do that.  It would be political suicide. 

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Just now, Maurile Tremblay said:

That's what I'm responding to. I'm saying the number should be much larger than $10K.

I don't know Shapiro, but I would guess that he would up that amount.  The point is she wouldn't do it.  We all know it.  Shapiro would ruin her political career. 

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Just now, JohnnyU said:

Shapiro would ruin her political career. 

You can keep saying that all you want as sternly as you want, but it doesn't make it fact.

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Just now, toshiba said:

You can keep saying that all you want as sternly as you want, but it doesn't make it fact.

No kidding. I think he started this thread just so he could say that 20 times. When in real life, she had not even responded

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3 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Shapiro would ruin her political career. 

I don't think that's remotely true. I'm fairly confident that his fans would think he won the debate while her fans would think she won. And they'd both benefit from the publicity.

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4 minutes ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

I don't think that's remotely true. I'm fairly confident that his fans would think he won the debate while her fans would think she won. And they'd both benefit from the publicity.

I think you would think differently if you actually saw a debate of these two.  She is not intellectually equipped to deal with someone like Shapiro. 

Edited by JohnnyU

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Just now, proninja said:

She has a name. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. If that's too long, AOC or Ocasio work just fine. 

I have no problem say Ocasio-Cortez.  This is trivial. 

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Is Shapiro losing that many listeners that he has to throw out a dollar amount to debate another person not even a part of our government yet? He is sounding desperate... real desperate to want to “debate” someone just to get listeners and a soundbite. Sad. 

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