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Snorkelson

Dynasty-Marquez Valdes-Scantling, WR Green Bay

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I drafted him in one league in like rd 7 (non ppr, deep rosters). I like the size/speed but thought he may take a year or two to develop. After a nice preseason game he is in the mix along with a bunch of other guys. May ultimately end up a practice squadder, but caught my eye last night.

Edited by Snorkelson

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Chicago's Wims also had a big week 1 and came back to earth last night. I like MVS as much as the other guy, but let's see what happens over the next few weeks. 

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He caught a lot of eyes last night. He made the effort I thought J'Mon Moore should have made. 

At this point it's a dart throw who is going to grab that WR2 role in the GB offense. Whomever can emerge from this group will have significant fantasy value (flex floor IMO).

We are talking about roughly 125 targets available with Jordy gone. Adding in Jimmy Graham, that obviously takes a chunk of the 125 + normal TE targets, but I would put that WR2 at about 80-90 targets minimum. 

I'm not over-reacting to preseason week 1 just yet. As massraider said above, if he has another big game next week then he could be the favorite. I would monitor camp reports this week and figure it out from there

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4 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

He caught a lot of eyes last night. He made the effort I thought J'Mon Moore should have made. 

At this point it's a dart throw who is going to grab that WR2 role in the GB offense. Whomever can emerge from this group will have significant fantasy value (flex floor IMO).

We are talking about roughly 125 targets available with Jordy gone. Adding in Jimmy Graham, that obviously takes a chunk of the 125 + normal TE targets, but I would put that WR2 at about 80-90 targets minimum. 

I'm not over-reacting to preseason week 1 just yet. As massraider said above, if he has another big game next week then he could be the favorite. I would monitor camp reports this week and figure it out from there

It's Cobb. And WR3 is Geronimo or Yancey. 

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2 minutes ago, steelers1080 said:

It's Cobb. And WR3 is Geronimo or Yancey. 

Cobb is the slot guy. WR3 technically. The starting outside position is open. Allison is JAG- any one who has watched him play will tell you that; can't separate and didn't take a step last season. Yancey has a shot. Loved him last year after they drafted him. Was happy they were able to stash him on the PS

Edited by Dr. Dan

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21 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

He caught a lot of eyes last night. He made the effort I thought J'Mon Moore should have made. 

At this point it's a dart throw who is going to grab that WR2 role in the GB offense. Whomever can emerge from this group will have significant fantasy value (flex floor IMO).

We are talking about roughly 125 targets available with Jordy gone. Adding in Jimmy Graham, that obviously takes a chunk of the 125 + normal TE targets, but I would put that WR2 at about 80-90 targets minimum. 

I'm not over-reacting to preseason week 1 just yet. As massraider said above, if he has another big game next week then he could be the favorite. I would monitor camp reports this week and figure it out from there

Definitely with the bolded as I said in the Packers thread.  Moore took a step back behind the others as I thought MVS made that effort over people several times (his TD especially) and held on to the ball where Moore did not (and dropped his deep ball chance).

Will be an interesting competition and to see where they put Eq, Moore, MVS, Kumerow, Yancey...and yeah, Allison has talent, but has been JAG and never shown enough improvement.

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It may very well be nothing. It PROBABLY is nothing.

But tracking preseason hype is important before your draft.

It's not about declaring him the guy after one game. 

These are the guys you search Twitter for, look for practice reports.

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Cobb may be out this weekend which moves MVS into the #3 spot. Would love to see him have a big game and them cut Cobb before next season.

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4 minutes ago, lod001 said:

Cobb may be out this weekend which moves MVS into the #3 spot. Would love to see him have a big game and them cut Cobb before next season.

Yeah, he's the only one of those rookies whose been seeing any percentage of the snaps each week ~10%.

But isn't Brown supposed to be more likely to man the slot?

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8 minutes ago, SameSongNDance said:

Yeah, he's the only one of those rookies whose been seeing any percentage of the snaps each week ~10%.

But isn't Brown supposed to be more likely to man the slot?

Not sure but I think only Scantling has been active so far out of the rookie WRs. Can't imagine Brown moves ahead of him. Probably put Adams or Allison in the slot.

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12 minutes ago, SameSongNDance said:

Yeah, he's the only one of those rookies whose been seeing any percentage of the snaps each week ~10%.

But isn't Brown supposed to be more likely to man the slot?

I don't believe this is true. I don't think Brown got any slot work this preseason. Yancey was the one that was put into the slot when Cobb wasn't there. 

He's a guy to definitely watch long term for sure. Cobb doesn't need to be cut before next year; his contract expires. MVS seems to be next in line, and as good as Allison has been catching everything thrown at him, he's still nonathletic. GB needs a deep threat, and pretty much any one of these rookies can fill that role. It's just who steps up. So far MVS has been it. Time will tell. Glad I was able to nab him after being cut in one league. 

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Just now, Dr. Dan said:

I don't believe this is true. I don't think Brown got any slot work this preseason. Yancey was the one that was put into the slot when Cobb wasn't there.

He's a guy to definitely watch long term for sure. Cobb doesn't need to be cut before next year; his contract expires. MVS seems to be next in line, and as good as Allison has been catching everything thrown at him, he's still nonathletic. GB needs a deep threat, and pretty much any one of these rookies can fill that role. It's just who steps up. So far MVS has been it. Time will tell. Glad I was able to nab him after being cut in one league.

Man, unless my memory is off Brown definitely got work in the slot before the season started.

I went looking, this article mentions it.

Quote

The first is that they believe they can get the same production from Cobb’s position with what they have behind him. Equanimeous St. Brown has played extensively in the slot this camp and looked quite good doing so.

I'm not saying Brown gets the job but I remember he and Yancey manned the slot in practice and now Yancey is gone.

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4 minutes ago, SameSongNDance said:

Man, unless my memory is off Brown definitely got work in the slot before the season started.

I went looking, this article mentions it.

I'm not saying Brown gets the job but I remember he and Yancey manned the slot in practice and now Yancey is gone.

Thanks for that. I vaguely remember someone else getting slot work with Yancey. 

 

Could be very interesting to watch

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Marquez Valdes-Scantling will start in Week 4 against Buffalo.

He's replacing Randall Cobb (hamstring) in three-wide sets. Cobb was playing 90 percent of snaps before going down, so Valdes-Scantling is going to get some serious run. With Cobb potentially looking at a multi-game absence, Valdes-Scantling's dynasty stock is on the rise.

Source: Kelly Price on Twitter 

Sep 30 - 11:59 AM

 

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Allison is now out with a soft mellon. Cobb's hammy is not looking good for next week. Will be the #2 next week maybe. Only thing I don't like is he tends to body catch some passes.

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He better run the right routes or he won’t be for long. Rodgers was clearly pissed off at him and that doesn’t help you get PT. I just pray it doesn’t mean more targets for Brick Hands Kendrick’s. 

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Likely starting him in 2 dynasty leagues due to byes and my team is very shallow. Probably resembles a lot of taxi squads in large roster leagues :lol: but hey, I'm tied for 1st in my division in 1 league at least. 

 

I think this is a very good week for him. I am also intrigued by the possibilities of J'Mon Moore to have a little bit of a break out. So that considered, ESB is the play this week! :lol: 

 

In all seriousness, route running needs to get better. His hands are fairly good. He has speed and height. I think this is a great week if you're in a bind. I wouldn't' start anyone else at this point, but I wouldn't be surprised if MVS is in Rodgers' dog house and Moore had a big game. 

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Coach Mike McCarthy singled out rookie Marquez Valdes-Scantling as the next man up at receiver should Randall Cobb (hamstring) and Geronimo Allison (concussion) sit Week 5 against the Lions.

McCarthy said he has "great confidence" in the other rookie WRs J'Mon Moore and Equanimeous St. Brown, but Valdes-Scantling will "have a role" and was named by the coach. It's been pretty clear through four weeks fifth-rounder Valdes-Scantling is ahead of the other two rookies. MVS played 54-of-76 snaps last week as the starting slot man, catching a 38-yard pass on three targets. He'll be in line for a bigger role if Cobb and Allison are unable to play.

Source: ESPN.com 

Oct 3 - 11:40 AM

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Drafted him, dropped him when I needed to pick up a kicker, picked him back up off waivers this week burning a middling waiver spot. Pretty happy about it.

Really like his skill set, just didn't think he'd get looks this year. If Cobb stays out and Allison misses, he could show them what he's made of. Possibly 4 for 120 and 2 TDs. 

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36 minutes ago, steelers1080 said:

Drafted him, dropped him when I needed to pick up a kicker, picked him back up off waivers this week burning a middling waiver spot. Pretty happy about it.

Really like his skill set, just didn't think he'd get looks this year. If Cobb stays out and Allison misses, he could show them what he's made of. Possibly 4 for 120 and 2 TDs. 

:lmao: I'll be happy with correct route running and catching whatever is catchable with his hands. He can catch with his hands from what I can tell but he sure does some body catching and when you are going deep, body catching is a miserable technique. At 6-4" you go up and high point it. You attack the ball and don't let it come to you. That's what I want to see because I'm guessing he is going to get some deep passes his way.

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24 minutes ago, lod001 said:

:lmao: I'll be happy with correct route running and catching whatever is catchable with his hands. He can catch with his hands from what I can tell but he sure does some body catching and when you are going deep, body catching is a miserable technique. At 6-4" you go up and high point it. You attack the ball and don't let it come to you. That's what I want to see because I'm guessing he is going to get some deep passes his way.

You think 4 for 120 and 2 TDs is laughable? Try 6 for 180 and 2 TDs on for size! I can hyperbolize all day!  But seriously though, I think he needs work and looks like a solid third WR for them. If he puts in the work with AR, he could come into next year with some real value. 

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19 hours ago, steelers1080 said:

You think 4 for 120 and 2 TDs is laughable? Try 6 for 180 and 2 TDs on for size! I can hyperbolize all day!  But seriously though, I think he needs work and looks like a solid third WR for them. If he puts in the work with AR, he could come into next year with some real value. 

That's what I'm hoping for. Cobb may be gone and Allison is a JAG.

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On 10/3/2018 at 5:09 PM, steelers1080 said:

You think 4 for 120 and 2 TDs is laughable? Try 6 for 180 and 2 TDs on for size! I can hyperbolize all day!  But seriously though, I think he needs work and looks like a solid third WR for them. If he puts in the work with AR, he could come into next year with some real value. 

Ok, but seriously, 7 for 68 and a TD is not bad for his first real outing. 

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On 10/4/2018 at 0:35 PM, lod001 said:

That's what I'm hoping for. Cobb may be gone and Allison is a JAG.

Allison might be a JAG, but Rodgers likes him and trusts him. 

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9 hours ago, mr roboto said:

Good stat line. How’s he look?

Good. One mistake he made was not even trying to get 2 feet in bounds on a short out pattern., The pass was tough to haul in and get both feet down but he didn't try. Not sure he could have anyway since it was off the mark. Other than that, I'm happy with the performance and am keeping him in dynasty over Callaway if I had to decide right now. Cobb should be gone in 2019 if MVS can perform well the rest of the season. Allison remains a ham & egger receiver and the #3.

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1 hour ago, msudaisy26 said:

Allison might be a JAG, but Rodgers likes him and trusts him. 

Yup.  Their whole WR corps can be jags, but if they have Rodgers throwing their way, i want a piece.  

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16 minutes ago, lod001 said:

Good. One mistake he made was not even trying to get 2 feet in bounds on a short out pattern., The pass was tough to haul in and get both feet down but he didn't try. Not sure he could have anyway since it was off the mark. Other than that, I'm happy with the performance and am keeping him in dynasty over Callaway if I had to decide right now. Cobb should be gone in 2019 if MVS can perform well the rest of the season. Allison remains a ham & egger receiver and the #3.

I agree....he also could have had a 2nd TD but was down at the goaline...so day could have even been better

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He played 95% of the offensive snaps.

I saw one play of his which was at the end of the half. He had a nice run after the catch but it was also a rookie mistake because he should have went out of bounds.

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On 10/4/2018 at 0:35 PM, lod001 said:

That's what I'm hoping for. Cobb may be gone and Allison is a JAG.

I remember when people were saying that Davante Adams was JAG, sucks, can't play football, needs to be cut, etc. He improved with time and experience, and he is now a very good football player. 

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33 minutes ago, simey said:

I remember when people were saying that Davante Adams was JAG, sucks, can't play football, needs to be cut, etc. He improved with time and experience, and he is now a very good football player. 

Allison has been similar to James Jones. You can always ask for a higher talent level but production matters.

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40 minutes ago, simey said:

I remember when people were saying that Davante Adams was JAG, sucks, can't play football, needs to be cut, etc. He improved with time and experience, and he is now a very good football player. 

True but Adams was a high pick. He went in the 2nd round before Allen Robinson and Jarvis Landry. The comments about him being a JAG came after the 2015 season when Adams looked to step into a big role with Nelson out for the year. Adams was pretty bad that year and totally got outplayed by James Jones. Adams came in with high expectations and labeled a JAG after poor play. MSV is coming in with low expectatiosn and is assumed to be a JAG. My other worry with MSV besides a potential lack of talent is the other rookie WRs he has to compete with. 

Edited by Ilov80s
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21 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

MSV is coming in with low expectatiosn and is assumed to be a JAG. My other worry with MSV besides a potential lack of talent is the other rookie WRs he has to compete with. 

6-4 and a 4.37 40, so he has that going for him. 

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58 minutes ago, simey said:

I remember when people were saying that Davante Adams was JAG, sucks, can't play football, needs to be cut, etc. He improved with time and experience, and he is now a very good football player. 

But Allison is JAG. He has some good hands, and good opportunity. A guy like MVS, ESB can pass Allison easily because they have height advantage and speed advantage. All they need to do is catch the ball. J'Mon Moore can't catch apparently, so he has dropped down the depth chart. 

You put Allison on any other NFL team and is he starting? Is he climbing the depth chart? No way. 

Adams was hated on because he was an athlete but couldn't catch the ball. There was a drinking game published prior to his break out season where you took a drink every time Adams got his hands on the ball and dropped it. That's how predictable/comical his drops were. He turned that around big time similar to James Jones did when he suffered from the dropsies. I think Nelson also had issues, but I could be wrong.

If Allison and MVS are equal in catching the ball, but MVS is way more athletic, who do you think wins that battle? MVS fills the Nelson role much better than Allison. Obviously 2018 has been a year for Allison as the rookies got off to a slow start, but in dynasty I'd be selling Allison if I could. MVS is a huge buy. I'd even say ESB is a good buy. He could pass Allison too as he is more athletic as well.

Allison is the classic example of a guy GB let's walk if he wants too much money because the guys behind him can do just as good, if not potentially better job, and are more athletic. Then he goes on to do nothing on another team. I'll hedge my bets on the Raiders. 

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An interesting stat MVS ran most of his routes from the slot in week 5.  His role might be sustained if that continues due to Cobb's uncertain future with the team and his health history.

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39 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

But Allison is JAG. He has some good hands, and good opportunity. A guy like MVS, ESB can pass Allison easily because they have height advantage and speed advantage. All they need to do is catch the ball. J'Mon Moore can't catch apparently, so he has dropped down the depth chart. 

You put Allison on any other NFL team and is he starting? Is he climbing the depth chart? No way. 

Adams was hated on because he was an athlete but couldn't catch the ball. There was a drinking game published prior to his break out season where you took a drink every time Adams got his hands on the ball and dropped it. That's how predictable/comical his drops were. He turned that around big time similar to James Jones did when he suffered from the dropsies. I think Nelson also had issues, but I could be wrong.

If Allison and MVS are equal in catching the ball, but MVS is way more athletic, who do you think wins that battle? MVS fills the Nelson role much better than Allison. Obviously 2018 has been a year for Allison as the rookies got off to a slow start, but in dynasty I'd be selling Allison if I could. MVS is a huge buy. I'd even say ESB is a good buy. He could pass Allison too as he is more athletic as well.

Allison is the classic example of a guy GB let's walk if he wants too much money because the guys behind him can do just as good, if not potentially better job, and are more athletic. Then he goes on to do nothing on another team. I'll hedge my bets on the Raiders. 

You're putting too much stock in measurables, IMO.  Adam Theilen is also a JAG athletically...  It's not just speed and hands, there are huge components of success in route running, zone beating, run blocking, getting off press coverage, being able to make reads on the same page as the QB... 

Some guys don't have that elite athletecism, but can make up for it in other ways. 

Edited by kittenmittens
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3 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

You're putting too much stock in measurables, IMO.  Adam Theilen is also a JAG athletically...  It's not just speed and hands, there are huge components of success in route running, zone beating, run blocking, being able to make reads on the same page as the QB... 

Some guys don't have that elite athletecism, but can make up for it in other ways. 

Yes. I can openly admit I'm a sucker for measurables in WRs (especially height). However, I did absolutely love Theilen 2-3 years ago. So I'm not a complete sell out for tall, fast WRs

I just feel like Allison is one of those guys who has success and if he wants a huge payday GB is likely to say see-ya as they have in the past. Especially since these 3 rookies are BG's guys 

Edited by Dr. Dan
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2 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

Yes. I can openly admit I'm a sucker for measurables in WRs (especially height). However, I did absolutely love Theilen 2-3 years ago. So I'm not a complete sell out for tall, fast WRs

I just feel like Allison is one of those guys who has success and if he wants a huge payday GB is likely to say see-ya as they have in the past. Especially since these 3 rookies are BG's guys 

Yeah I agree for sure on the contract, I should have mentioned that. I don't see him getting a big deal from GB

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1 hour ago, cloppbeast said:

6-4 and a 4.37 40, so he has that going for him. 

Yep, he an excellent athlete and has great length. However, the more important metrics aren't so good.  

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35 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Yep, he an excellent athlete and has great length. However, the more important metrics aren't so good.  

Not sure what you mean here. His breakout age sucks but he was 40th percentile college dominator (not great but passable), 97th percentile height adjusted speed score (very important for NFL dominance), 72nd percentile agility score (important for slot work, which he’s already demonstrated a penchant for) and 67th percentile catch radius. I believe he was a transfer in college which would explain the late breakout age which is forgivable if there is immediate NFL production, which there has been. It may mean his ceiling could be lower than say ESB but he’s higher on the pecking order right now and has redraft value for the time being. 

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12 minutes ago, Bojang0301 said:

Not sure what you mean here. His breakout age sucks but he was 40th percentile college dominator (not great but passable), 97th percentile height adjusted speed score (very important for NFL dominance), 72nd percentile agility score (important for slot work, which he’s already demonstrated a penchant for) and 67th percentile catch radius. I believe he was a transfer in college which would explain the late breakout age which is forgivable if there is immediate NFL production, which there has been. It may mean his ceiling could be lower than say ESB but he’s higher on the pecking order right now and has redraft value for the time being. 

I'm not sure any of it matters much except dominator and breakout age. Of course being a great athlete is a plus, but I don't know if there really has been any proven correlation like there has for dominator and breakout. 40th percentile dominator and 4th percentile breakout at USF isn't impressive. For his price and situation, I'm in on him. However, I'm not very optimistic. Any insight why such a size-speed freak like him had trouble in college? I see he transferred from NC State to USF, I guess that could be the main issue but it still took him 5 years to become a WR1 on his college team. That makes me nervous. 

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1 hour ago, Ilov80s said:

Yep, he an excellent athlete and has great length. However, the more important metrics aren't so good.  

Bad vertical so poor explosion, definitely build up speed. Everything I've read says he's a fluid athlete, so he can carry his speed through the top of his route. And decent agility numbers.

I just don't think lack of physical ability will hold this one back.

Edited by cloppbeast
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2 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

Bad vertical so poor explosion, definitely build up speed. Everything I've read says he's a fluid athlete, so he can carry his speed through the top of his route. And decent agility numbers.

I just don't think lack of physical ability will hold this one back.

Yeah, won't be a physical issue. I meant more that at USF as a 23 year old he was just average in terms of offensive production.It took him untill 23 to breakout as a college player. That's concerning to me. For such a big, fast and fluid athlete, why did it take so long? Why wasn't he a bigger part of the USF offense?

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