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JohnnyU

Partisan Journalism, good or bad for America?

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Can we agree there is partisan journalism with both the left and right?  Is this good for America?  We all know Fox news leans right and CNN and MSNBC leans left, but how did we get here?  It wasn't always that way.  There was a time where professional journalism was sacred, but no more.  You have the left watching and believing everything CNN and MSNBC says and you have the right watching and believing everything Fox says.   This has to stop.  I personally believe these news media outlets are contributing to the political divide we have in this country.  Hell, they are playing a major role.  Don't even get me started about big tech (Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, etc.). 

So, how do we crawl out of this hole?  How do we start coming together outside of political bias?  Can we find some common ground?

I'm personally in favor of abortion and LGBT rights to marry or do whatever they want, but I lean right on a lot of other issues.  That doesn't mean I'm 100% right leaning as some of you think I am.  I'm upset at the way our country is divided and the reasons for it.  I don't agree with Trump on a lot of things, but I think as a nation we need to support our President to do what is right for the nation and believe it or not, not all of it is bad.  

Edited by JohnnyU

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If you think CNN is as far left as Fox is right, then we are far apart on where the middle is.

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1 minute ago, joffer said:

If you think CNN is as far left as Fox is right, then we are far apart on where the middle is.

CNN is part of the Antifa media

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8 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Can we agree there is partisan journalism with both the left and right?  Is this good for America?  We all know Fox news leans right and CNN and MSNBC leans left, but how did we get here?  It wasn't always that way.  There was a time where professional journalism was sacred, but no more.  You have the left watching and believing everything CNN and MSNBC says and you have the right watching and believing everything Fox says.   This has to stop.  I personally believe these news media outlets are contributing to the political divide we have in this country.  Hell, they are playing a major role.  Don't even get me started about big tech (Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, etc.). 

So, how do we crawl out of this hole?  How do we start coming together outside of political bias?  Can we find some common ground?

capitalism

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5 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

There isn't much journalism coming from right wing media outlets. The right really doesn't understand journalism.

really?  I guess we're doomed.

Edited by JohnnyU
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The "golden age" of objective journalism must of been before my time. It really isn't that hard to identify whose side the reporter is on. It's up to each person to figure out how reliable and honest the source is.

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lets say the speed limit is 55.  CNN/MSNBC types might be doing 60.  Fox is doing 90.  Breitbart types are doing 150.  Johnny just sees that all 3 are speeding

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21 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Can we agree there is partisan journalism with both the left and right?  Is this good for America?  We all know Fox news leans right and CNN and MSNBC leans left, but how did we get here? 

CNN leans left in comparison to Fox but most observers would not agree with you that the network in their coverage leans left.

Edited by squistion

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Just now, squistion said:

CNN leans left in comparison to Fox but most observers would not agree with you that the network in their coverage leans left.

wow, I respect your opinion, but disagree in the strongest sense of the word.

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2 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

wow, I respect your opinion, but disagree in the strongest sense of the word.

How about some providing some links or documentation to your claims of this left wing bias by CNN.

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7 minutes ago, Insomniac said:

The "golden age" of objective journalism must of been before my time. It really isn't that hard to identify whose side the reporter is on. It's up to each person to figure out how reliable and honest the source is.

Isn't that sad?  I feel sad that you haven't experienced journalism that I have in the past. 

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CNN and PBS certainly lean left. But not nearly as much as FOX leans right.

One important point, though. Being critical of Trump should not be considered left nor right.

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6 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

really?  I guess we're doomed.

We see it (and saw it back as far as Watergate and the Civil Rights demonstrations, which is about as far back as most of us here can probably remember) all the time. The right cried "foul" when the Washington Post and New York Times, among others, investigated Nixon's misdeeds and reported on how people of color were mistreated in large parts of the country. We see it in their poor understanding of the use (and protection) of anonymous sources and the way mainstream news outlets punish reporters and print retractions for errors. We see it in the way Fox reporters keep leaving the network because their investigative efforts are all too often buried by the corporate marketing agenda.

BTW, any of you who get the bulk of your news from television are doing yourselves a grave disservice. That's not where most of the real journalism is being done.

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18 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

There lies the problem.

Right. There are rubes and gullible that have certain fears which have been taken advantage of by some smart people. These victims of propaganda have been tricked into thinking a group of networks don't report the news that get them lathered up so they are too liberal for them. And since they are too liberal for them, and this one other station isn't, then they are equally biased, when if fact it isn't close to the truth. The problem is these rubes, mostly in rural and middle america need to take a step back and understand that they were wrong. But they won't. Human nature keeps people from admitting they are wrong when it comes to tightly held beliefs, even if they are irrational. Plus Dunning-Kruger, which many rural and middle americans experience. So you were right, there lieth the problem.

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2 minutes ago, squistion said:

How about some providing some links or documentation to your claims of this left wing bias by CNN.

100% Trump hate and 0% Trump successes for starters. When I go read CNN everything leans left.  Just as I go to Fox and most of it leans right.  I'm just saying nonpartisan journalism doesn't exist in most media anymore.  

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1 minute ago, JohnnyU said:

100% Trump hate and 0% Trump successes for starters. When I go read CNN everything leans left.  Just as I go to Fox and most of it leans right.  I'm just saying nonpartisan journalism doesn't exist in most media anymore.  

Link?

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1 minute ago, Juxtatarot said:

CNN and PBS certainly lean left. But not nearly as much as FOX leans right.

One important point, though. Being critical of Trump should not be considered left nor right.

Ok, the CNN Richard is bigger than the Fox Richard.  That is the problem if you don't see it.  Both are equally guilty, but we've been so indoctrinated to each that we can't see anything else.

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Just now, JohnnyU said:

Isn't that sad?  I feel sad that you haven't experienced journalism that I have in the past. 

I'm older than most of the people on here. I believe your memory of journalistic history is flawed.

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1 minute ago, JohnnyU said:
Quote

 

1 minute ago, squistion said:

Link?

 

OMG

Exactly what I thought you would say. Have a good evening.

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3 minutes ago, Dedfin said:

Right. There are rubes and gullible that have certain fears which have been taken advantage of by some smart people. These victims of propaganda have been tricked into thinking a group of networks don't report the news that get them lathered up so they are too liberal for them. And since they are too liberal for them, and this one other station isn't, then they are equally biased, when if fact it isn't close to the truth. The problem is these rubes, mostly in rural and middle america need to take a step back and understand that they were wrong. But they won't. Human nature keeps people from admitting they are wrong when it comes to tightly held beliefs, even if they are irrational. Plus Dunning-Kruger, which many rural and middle americans experience. So you were right, there lieth the problem.

Middle America disagrees with you and thus the reason why they voted for Trump.  Rubes?  LOL.  That is sad.

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Just now, Insomniac said:
5 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Isn't that sad?  I feel sad that you haven't experienced journalism that I have in the past. 

I'm older than most of the people on here. I believe your memory of journalistic history is flawed.

i completely agree but one thing i have learned in my many years here is that people always remember things better than they were its like fishing everyone always says it was better back when they were younger even though actual data says there are a ton more fish today its just what it is take that to the bank brohans 

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Separating opinion from news reporting: I believe that CNN, MSNBC, and Fox report the news truthfully. I don’t believe there is “fake news” from any of these networks. 

The opinion shows are another matter. 

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You know, even a thread about trying to come together as a nation, regardless of media bias one way or the other, is so divided we can't.  Each side hates the other side so much right now this country is in complete disarray.   I sense so much of this in this forum.   I just wish there was a solution we could all live with regarding our differences politically. 

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5 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Separating opinion from news reporting: I believe that CNN, MSNBC, and Fox report the news truthfully. I don’t believe there is “fake news” from any of these networks. 

The opinion shows are another matter. 

What about “guest experts”?

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8 minutes ago, Insomniac said:

I'm older than most of the people on here. I believe your memory of journalistic history is flawed.

it was before he was propagandized

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Just now, bradyfan said:

What about “guest experts”?

Good question. 

My observation is: 

MSNBC has guest experts who tend to be liberal. 

Fox has guest experts who tend to be conservative. 

CNN typically has 2 liberal guest experts and 1 conservative, and the conservative is usually given the largest segment of time. 

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Yes it's terrible.  Yes unfortunately we're probably too far gone and it will only get worse.

How'd we get here?  Roger Ailes.  That's why when his America wrecking, sexual assaulting ### died people applauded even amongst some cries to have some respect.  That man ruined America and he deserves no respect.

CNN certainly leans left and has a hard-on for going after Trump, but equating them to the current state of Fox News is beyond laughable.  They're more in the same zone that Fox News was a few years ago before the Hannity's of that station went totally off the wall and started noticing that the more they acted like insane conspiracy theorists the more their ratings went up.

Fox News is actually pretty solid during the day, and fairly non-partisan at times.  Their general day time programming honestly is probably overly criticized.  I actually head in that direction a lot during the day.

But there is nothing on CNN even remotely like the Hunger Games-esque crap Fox throws out there in primetime like Hannity, Ingraham, or Pirro.  That crap is so far from journalism it's beyond discussion.  I wouldn't believe it was real if it wasn't happening. 

To pretend like anyone that doesn't consider them equal is incapable of being impartial is weak.  Just because me (####ty Dolphins fan) and a Browns fan are both fans of very flawed franchises doesn't mean that I can't recognized the Browns franchise is way worse without bias being the only thing driving that.

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

Good question. 

My observation is: 

MSNBC has guest experts who tend to be liberal. 

Fox has guest experts who tend to be conservative. 

CNN typically has 2 liberal guest experts and 1 conservative, and the conservative is usually given the largest segment of time. 

Fox always has 1 liberal guest on their panel.  Who is the African American that sits next to the last guy on the left?

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44 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Can we agree there is partisan journalism with both the left and right?  Is this good for America?  We all know Fox news leans right and CNN and MSNBC leans left, but how did we get here?  It wasn't always that way.  There was a time where professional journalism was sacred, but no more.  You have the left watching and believing everything CNN and MSNBC says and you have the right watching and believing everything Fox says.   This has to stop.  I personally believe these news media outlets are contributing to the political divide we have in this country.  Hell, they are playing a major role.  Don't even get me started about big tech (Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, etc.). 

So, how do we crawl out of this hole?  How do we start coming together outside of political bias?  Can we find some common ground?

I'm personally in favor of abortion and LGBT rights to marry or do whatever they want, but I lean right on a lot of other issues.  That doesn't mean I'm 100% right leaning as some of you think I am.  I'm upset at the way our country is divided and the reasons for it.  I don't agree with Trump on a lot of things, but I think as a nation we need to support our President to do what is right for the nation and believe it or not, not all of it is bad.  

Define "journalism".  I see a lot of "entertainment".

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4 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Separating opinion from news reporting: I believe that CNN, MSNBC, and Fox report the news truthfully. I don’t believe there is “fake news” from any of these networks. 

The opinion shows are another matter. 

I agree with your “fake news” point.  To be certain, though, there is bias in decisions on what stories to cover, how much time to give them, and how to cover them. I don’t think that is necessarily a problem. Just saying.

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Just now, Amused to Death said:

Define "journalism".  I see a lot of "entertainment".

Well, you may have a point there.  I wouldn't call it journalism either now that I think about it.

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43 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Can we agree there is partisan journalism with both the left and right?  Is this good for America?  We all know Fox news leans right and CNN and MSNBC leans left, but how did we get here?  It wasn't always that way.  There was a time where professional journalism was sacred, but no more.

Yes

Yes

Some guys named Adams, Madison and Jefferson started doing it a long time ago and it's become an American tradition and example of freedom.

It was literally always this way.

Front page journalism and back page editorial opinion reporting has always been different in form. What has changed, if anything, is the ability of the vast majority of people to be able to discern the difference coupled with their belief that their access to facts empowers them with righteous wisdom that, if questioned, is an attack on their manhood.

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I'm 60 and I almost pursued a journalism career. If I was a journalist now I would be incredibly pissed at the POTUS for his disparaging remarks regarding the press. Actually, I'm pissed anyway.

"I have never voted a party line. I vote on the individual and the issues."  Walter Cronkite
 

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1 minute ago, Yankee23Fan said:

Yes

Yes

Some guys named Adams, Madison and Jefferson started doing it a long time ago and it's become an American tradition and example of freedom.

It was literally always this way.

Front page journalism and back page editorial opinion reporting has always been different in form. What has changed, if anything, is the ability of the vast majority of people to be able to discern the difference coupled with their belief that their access to facts empowers them with righteous wisdom that, if questioned, is an attack on their manhood.

Problem is is that it isn't journalism anymore, it is all editorial opinions and sensationalism. 

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5 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

 

But there is nothing on CNN even remotely like the Hunger Games-esque crap Fox throws out there in primetime like Hannity, Ingraham, or Pirro.  That crap is so far from journalism it's beyond discussion. 

It's not journalism in the sense that we are using the word. It's the editorial and opinion page writ large and given more space than the reporter and investigator.

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2 minutes ago, Joe Mammy said:

I'm 60 and I almost pursued a journalism career. If I was a journalist now I would be incredibly pissed at the POTUS for his disparaging remarks regarding the press. Actually, I'm pissed anyway.

"I have never voted a party line. I vote on the individual and the issues."  Walter Cronkite
 

I like this post.  I voted for Obama in his first election and not the second. 

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1 minute ago, JohnnyU said:

Problem is is that it isn't journalism anymore, it is all editorial opinions and sensationalism. 

Not really.  You aren't getting news from Hannity and you never were. If you (the general you, not you you) thought you were, that's a you problem.

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2 minutes ago, urbanhack said:

What is it considered when an outlet just presents the news and facts of the day?

Boring and not enough ratings to get advertising dollars.

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2 minutes ago, urbanhack said:

What is it considered when an outlet just presents the news and facts of the day?

its considered bbc take that to the bank bromigos 

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1 minute ago, Yankee23Fan said:

Not really.  You aren't getting news from Hannity and you never were. If you (the general you, not you you) thought you were, that's a you problem.

I see it all the time with both CNN, MSNBC and FOX.  We're not watching news anymore, only editorials from those who lean one way or the other.  That isn't journalism as I remember it.  There is a place for editorials and the front page isn't it.

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What comes out of these media outlets isn't the problem.  The consumers are the problem.  These outlets are used to confirm what people have already decided to believe.  The outlets understand this and it's exactly why they do what they do.  If the dopes who continue to go to our "media" for their "news" continue to be that lazy, there is really nowhere to go but down and arguing about who's biased and how is the heavy foot on the gas pedal.

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4 minutes ago, Yankee23Fan said:

Yes

Yes

Some guys named Adams, Madison and Jefferson started doing it a long time ago and it's become an American tradition and example of freedom.

It was literally always this way.

Front page journalism and back page editorial opinion reporting has always been different in form. What has changed, if anything, is the ability of the vast majority of people to be able to discern the difference coupled with their belief that their access to facts empowers them with righteous wisdom that, if questioned, is an attack on their manhood.

There seems to be this idea that there was a period in TV news between its beginning and maybe sometime in the 80s or 90s where it was neutral, honest and trusted. Walter Cronkite being the shining example.  How much truth do you think there is in that? 

(Really this is an open question to anyone not just Yankee. But I’m particularly interested in his thoughts.)

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