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JohnnyU

Partisan Journalism, good or bad for America?

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Just now, jomar said:

I don't need a Free Press to tell me how great someone is doing.  Their job is to uncover corruption with our government and hold leaders accountable

I guess we can disagree on that for sure.  The job of news reporting is to inform the public and that includes the good stuff as well as the bad stuff.

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I both agree and disagree with the OP. 

I agree that the partisan divide, related to media, is bad for America. And notwithstanding Yankee’s point that we have had this forever, I would argue that it’s worse than its ever been because each side has their own facts. It’s one thing to argue over a given set of principles or issues; it’s quite another to live in a different reality. Yesterday I turned on some right wing talk radio (I know, Gr00vus, I’m a masochist) and I felt like I was temporarily on another planet. On that planet, a wise and extremely able President Trump is surrounded by treacherous enemies who are unable to prevent him from being effective, though they try. On that planet Mueller, Comey, Rosenstein, and Hillary Clinton are all clearly guilty of horrendous felonies and will soon be arrested and charged. This was not Q; it was mainstream right wing talk radio. To be specific, the Rush Limbaugh show (with a guest host.) 

And that leads to my disagreement with the OP. JohnnyU, like so many other conservatives who have complained about this issue, begin with the premise that both sides are equally complicit. They aren’t. Putting aside the question of whether or not CNN and MSNBC are as liberal as Fox is conservative, there is no progressive alternative for right wing talk radio, and it is right wing talk radio that more than any other factor is driving the divide in our country. 

 

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4 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Fox news ranks near the top and CNN doesn't, but that's another topic.  Your statement "Not everyone agrees that the news coverage on CNN and MSNBC is partisan journalist".  That's the problem right there.  CNN'ers are so indoctrinated to their reporting they don't even see it.  I can see when they report something stupid Trump says and I don't have a problem with that.  What you're not seeing (maybe you are) they don't even report the good things Trump does.  Why is that?  It's because they have an agenda of destroying Trump.  It doesn't get more biased than that.  As for Fox, I admit they are right biased.  My point is I wish journalism hadn't gone down this deep bias reporting.  At least I see it.

During what you describe as the non-partisan bygone age of journalism, didn't they also have to pick and choose what news to report?  Maybe it's not that the mainstream news has changed but that you have.

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3 minutes ago, JIslander said:

The top of what? White folks over 65 who answer land lines?

May 2018 Ratings: Fox News Is Most-Watched Cable News Network for 197 Straight Months

 

https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/may-2018-ratings-fox-news-is-the-most-watched-cable-news-network-for-197-straight-months/365840

Edited by JohnnyU

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2 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I guess we can disagree on that for sure.  The job of news reporting is to inform the public and that includes the good stuff as well as the bad stuff.

doesn't the WH have a public relations team to let us know all of the great things they did? 

can you provide a link to any Fox News segment praising anything Barack Obama did in his 8 years?  just one?  I don't remember Obama calling Fox fake news or calling them the enemy of the people

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1 minute ago, jomar said:

doesn't the WH have a public relations team to let us know all of the great things they did? 

can you provide a link to any Fox News segment praising anything Barack Obama did in his 8 years?  just one?  I don't remember Obama calling Fox fake news or calling them the enemy of the people

I didn't say Fox wasn't biased, they are, just like CNN is.  That's the problem.  Journalism isn't what it used to be and I just have to accept that and move on.

Edited by JohnnyU

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2 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

May 2018 Ratings: Fox News Is Most-Watched Cable News Network for 197 Straight Months

 

https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/may-2018-ratings-fox-news-is-the-most-watched-cable-news-network-for-197-straight-months/365840

This tells us, more than anything else, that people who spend their time watching 24 news channels are primarily old, white, and. conservative. If you watch a lot of 24 hour news channels but don’t fit into all of these three categories, then you’re an anomaly. 

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1 minute ago, JohnnyU said:

I didn't say Fox wasn't biased, they are, just like CNN is.  That's the problem.  Journalism isn't what it used to be and I just have to accept that and move on.

whats changed is that we have 24 hours 'news' stations.  they have to fill that time with opinion shows.  you're confusing these opinion shows with actual news.

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Just now, jomar said:

whats changed is that we have 24 hours 'news' stations.  they have to fill that time with opinion shows.  you're confusing these opinion shows with actual news.

Again, I think right wing talk radio, which is 100% opinion, is far more important (and destructive) than the news channels. 

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13 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

 What you're not seeing (maybe you are) they don't even report the good things Trump does.  

When you've been asked about the good things Trump has done, you've said stuff about GDP growth and Supreme Court justices I think.  Those stories have been covered considerably in the mainstream press.  What's the good stuff they aren't reporting?

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Just on the off-chance that you're actually interested in having a good faith argument rather than starting with the premise that you're right and I'm wrong, let's try just one example of why I think you're drawing a false equivalence:

CNN hires and gives airtime to steady stream of intensely pro-Trump talking heads: Jeffrey Lord, Corey Lewandowski, Kayliegh McEnany, etc. Does Fox News do this?  During the Obama administration did they regularly hire and give air time to intensely pro-Obama partisans?  I'm not just talking about someone who is arguable left or right leaning here, I'm talking people who are 100% in the bag for a politician and defend them and attack their enemies on every single issue. Did they ever do that?  Do they do it now with Dem leadership? I honestly don't know.

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1 minute ago, TobiasFunke said:

 

CNN hires and gives airtime to steady stream of intensely pro-Trump talking heads: Jeffrey Lord, Corey Lewandowski, Kayliegh McEnany, etc.

And to be quite honest, it sucked. It didn’t work. I admire the intent, but those panels make for awful television. 

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3 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I didn't say Fox wasn't biased, they are, just like CNN is.  That's the problem.  Journalism isn't what it used to be and I just have to accept that and move on.

 forget CNN, MSNBC and Fox.  ANY journalist, no matter how respected, will be discredited the minute he reports anything critical of Trump.  do you agree with this?  it doesn't even have to be a journalist.  Trump supporters loved Bannon....until he criticized Trump Jr.  Trumpers loved Sessions....not anymore. the list is endless.  

assuming a Trump supporter would've known who Bob Woodward was a month ago, they would've said he was a respectable journalist.  Now that he wrote a book that put Trump in a bad light?  FAKE NEWS!!  its laughable if it wasn't so sad

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11 minutes ago, timschochet said:

And to be quite honest, it sucked. It didn’t work. I admire the intent, but those panels make for awful television. 

I didn't really watch it, but from what I've read and heard CNN actually bends over backwards to give Trump defenders airtime, even lowering their standards to do it. Obviously people like Lord and Lewandowski and McEnany don't belong on the air. Neither does anyone who has signed an NDA or similar document that bars them from criticizing the president.  But CNN has aired those people too.

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Just now, TobiasFunke said:

I didn't really watch it, but from what I've read and heard CNN actually bends over backwards to give Trump defenders airtime, even lowering their standards to do it. Obviously people like Lord and Lewandowski and McEnany don't belong on the air. Neither does anyone who has signed an NDA or similar document that bars them from criticizing the president.  But CNN has aired those people too.

Of the three you mentioned, McEnany was the worst. Simply unwatchable. Lord and Lewandowski were irritating but not as bad as that. 

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3 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

I didn't really watch it, but from what I've read and heard CNN actually bends over backwards to give Trump defenders airtime, even lowering their standards to do it. Obviously people like Lord and Lewandowski and McEnany don't belong on the air. Neither does anyone who has signed an NDA or similar document that bars them from criticizing the president.  But CNN has aired those people too.

I'm glad I don't watch those silly tv shows.

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27 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Just on the off-chance that you're actually interested in having a good faith argument rather than starting with the premise that you're right and I'm wrong, let's try just one example of why I think you're drawing a false equivalence:

CNN hires and gives airtime to steady stream of intensely pro-Trump talking heads: Jeffrey Lord, Corey Lewandowski, Kayliegh McEnany, etc. Does Fox News do this?  During the Obama administration did they regularly hire and give air time to intensely pro-Obama partisans?  I'm not just talking about someone who is arguable left or right leaning here, I'm talking people who are 100% in the bag for a politician and defend them and attack their enemies on every single issue. Did they ever do that?  Do they do it now with Dem leadership? I honestly don't know.

Yes, Fox also has a liberal panelist with opposite views.  It's the African American guy that sits next to the person on the far left. 

Edited by JohnnyU
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8 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

I didn't really watch it, but from what I've read and heard CNN actually bends over backwards to give Trump defenders airtime, even lowering their standards to do it. Obviously people like Lord and Lewandowski and McEnany don't belong on the air. Neither does anyone who has signed an NDA or similar document that bars them from criticizing the president.  But CNN has aired those people too.

CNN has some of the worst people. :lol:

Trump will do something stupid and then they'll have a guest who is literally a life-long friend of Trump to talk about it. I think there's like two of them they rotate around. 

I can't imagine Faux News ever had "friends of Obama" on there discussing his mistakes?

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Just now, JohnnyU said:

Yes, Fox also has a liberal panelist with opposite views.  It's the African American guy that sits next to the person on the far left. 

Not sure who that is, but that doesn't sound like what I'm asking about. That person sounds more like Alex Castellanos, the right-leaning guy who was always on CNN panels back in the day. I'm talking about a hard core supporter and defender of Obama (or another prominent Dem politician) who never wavers or concedes anything. Also that's just one person; as I said CNN has hired a steady stream of Trump loyalists in addition to their regular crew of right-leaning folks.

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6 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Not sure who that is, but that doesn't sound like what I'm asking about. That person sounds more like Alex Castellanos, the right-leaning guy who was always on CNN panels back in the day. I'm talking about a hard core supporter and defender of Obama (or another prominent Dem politician) who never wavers or concedes anything. Also that's just one person; as I said CNN has hired a steady stream of Trump loyalists in addition to their regular crew of right-leaning folks.

Pretty sure he's referring to Juan Williams.

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Yeah Juan Williams is one of those “apologetic” Democrats, like Pat Caddell, that Fox loves to trot out: 

I’ve been a Democrat my entire life, but I can’t defend the extremists who have taken over the party! 

To be fair, MSNBC does the same thing with “apologetic” Republicans. 

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3 hours ago, The Commish said:

Talking about it not being necessary to watch our "news media" in this country.  Literally thousands of other places to get the information that are more informative and accurate.  Anyone choosing to make them their primary source of news (or any source for that matter) is doing it wrong.  Not complicated.

Exactly. Don't watch Fox News, MSNBC, or CNN. That would be my advice as well, as therin lies the problem, IMO. People "believing". This ain't religion.

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6 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Pretty sure he's referring to Juan Williams.

I don't remember much about him, but I  just read his Wikipedia page. And if that's the best example of Fox News hiring a far left Obama defender similar to Lewandowski or Lord (or for that matter just someone on the far left generally, similar to Santorum who often appears on CNN), I think my point is made.

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13 hours ago, jomar said:

lets say the speed limit is 55.  CNN/MSNBC types might be doing 60.  Fox is doing 90.  Breitbart types are doing 150.  Johnny just sees that all 3 are speeding

The inability to apply gradation is also an issue.

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I suggest to old Johnny to turn off FoxNews and start reading Reuters and The Economist. The Economist leans right but I really dig their work.

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I think these shows/networks, along with social media, have brought politics out of the backroom discussions. Now, many people wear their politics on their sleeve, and it literally defines them.  

My parents and grandparents had political opinions, but it didn't outright define them, and they didn't spend all day thinking about and commenting on it. 

Edited by jwb
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31 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

I don't remember much about him, but I  just read his Wikipedia page. And if that's the best example of Fox News hiring a far left Obama defender similar to Lewandowski or Lord (or for that matter just someone on the far left generally, similar to Santorum who often appears on CNN), I think my point is made.

Tucker Carlson brings the left on his show all the time.   Hell, that's what he does. 

Edited by JohnnyU

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36 minutes ago, Grace Under Pressure said:

Exactly. Don't watch Fox News, MSNBC, or CNN. That would be my advice as well, as therin lies the problem, IMO. People "believing". This ain't religion.

All of them are decent at covering live, breaking news....they even do a decent job of reporting the events happening while we were asleep etc.  When the opinion shows and :hophead: come on, turn them off.  It's not difficult.

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Just now, The Football Freak said:

The first step is to more closely scrutinize our information sources, @JohnnyU

Someone posted this here a year or so ago, and I’ve found it to be a pretty accurate reference. 

Media Bias Chart

 

huh....interesting.  I'm a BBC and Reuters guy with a good bit of NPR sprinkled in as of late.  The kids love NPR and it's what we listen to on the way to/from school.

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3 minutes ago, The Football Freak said:

The first step is to more closely scrutinize our information sources, @JohnnyU

Someone posted this here a year or so ago, and I’ve found it to be a pretty accurate reference. 

Media Bias Chart

 

That'll trigger people who believe CNN and Fox News are the same.

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2 minutes ago, The Commish said:

huh....interesting.  I'm a BBC and Reuters guy with a good bit of NPR sprinkled in as of late.  The kids love NPR and it's what we listen to on the way to/from school.

Those sources are some of my favorites, too. 

I found it helpful to see the big news sources laid out this way, once I satisfied myself that the methodology behind the chart was sound enough. 

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12 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Tucker Carlson brings the left on his show all the time.   Hell, that's what he does. 

That's also not what I'm talking about.  I've been pretty clear about it.  I'm talking about a regular Fox News contributor who is an unswerving supporter and defender of a Democratic president or other prominent Dem politician, analogous to Lewandowsnki, McEnany et al.  Or, failing that, even a regular far left contributor unaffiliated with a particular President or other prominent Dem politician, analogous to Rick Santorum. 

I gather you don't have any examples?  If so, do you want to move on to other ways in which you've drawn a false equivalence between Fox News and CNN/MSNBC?

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8 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

That's also not what I'm talking about.  I've been pretty clear about it.  I'm talking about a regular Fox News contributor who is an unswerving supporter and defender of a Democratic president or other prominent Dem politician, analogous to Lewandowsnki, McEnany et al.  Or, failing that, even a regular far left contributor unaffiliated with a particular President or other prominent Dem politician, analogous to Rick Santorum. 

I gather you don't have any examples?  If so, do you want to move on to other ways in which you've drawn a false equivalence between Fox News and CNN/MSNBC?

The only example I have for their news is the one liberal that always sits on the panel  I'm sure they've had more but I have a meeting to go to.

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I'm surprised that that chart shows PBS as slightly conservative.  I assume they are rating NewsHour.  When I watch TV news, it's generally that.  Although it tries to be fair, I notice a liberal streak in the anchors and most common contributors. 

Edited by Juxtatarot

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How much blame you giving Trump? He lies a lot, about easy stuff to prove.

He actively trolls almost every day on twitter, then gets upset and indignant when people respond. 

His first press conference he went bezerk and started calling media outlets fake news.

His press secretary on day one had to walk out there and blatantly lie while accusing the networks of lying about the size of the innaguartion crowds. So stupid :lol:

 

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3 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

I'm surprised that that chart shows PBS as slightly conservative.  I assume they are rating NewsHour.  When I watch TV news, it's generally that.  Although it tries to be fair, I notice a liberal streak in the anchors and most common contributors. 

It is in the middle box, so I think it’s just a matter of placing it so it can be read.

Edited by The Football Freak

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23 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

That's also not what I'm talking about.  I've been pretty clear about it.  I'm talking about a regular Fox News contributor who is an unswerving supporter and defender of a Democratic president or other prominent Dem politician, analogous to Lewandowsnki, McEnany et al.  Or, failing that, even a regular far left contributor unaffiliated with a particular President or other prominent Dem politician, analogous to Rick Santorum. 

I gather you don't have any examples?  If so, do you want to move on to other ways in which you've drawn a false equivalence between Fox News and CNN/MSNBC?

That person doesn't exist at FoxNews.  It never has.  I think that's the point you're making.

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39 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Tucker Carlson brings the left on his show all the time.   Hell, that's what he does. 

To yell over the top of them?

Seriously...you are talking about partisan journalism...don't bring up Tucker as he is one of the top partisan guys for the right.

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1 minute ago, sho nuff said:

To yell over the top of them?

Seriously...you are talking about partisan journalism...don't bring up Tucker as he is one of the top partisan guys for the right.

Didn't say he wasn't but he has leftist guest on his show most of the time.  That was the point to that

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1 minute ago, Juxtatarot said:

@JohnnyU  For the sake of moving this thread forward, do you accept that bias chart as reasonably accurate?

I liked the chart but CNN needs to be moved further to the left.  

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5 minutes ago, The Commish said:

That person doesn't exist at FoxNews.  It never has.  I think that's the point you're making.

What person doesn't exist?

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2 minutes ago, The Commish said:

That person doesn't exist at FoxNews.  It never has.  I think that's the point you're making.

Right.  The larger point is that IMO the entire thread is based on a false premise. CNN and MSNBC are not the left-leaning equivalent of Fox News, not even close. 

If @JohnnyU believes otherwise he's welcome to try to make that point, and if he does we can talk about this partisan journalism as a "both sides" problem.  But he can't just assume it, and then blame other people when the discussion he wanted to have based on that flawed assumption doesn't happen.

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1 minute ago, JohnnyU said:

What person doesn't exist?

The unfettered liberal who bows down to no one no mater how wrong they are.  The fact is, FoxNews has no real liberals on their paid staff that are there day in and day out fighting with the conservatives.  The other channels have conservatives and even moderates who will battle on the panels.

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2 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I liked the chart but CNN needs to be moved further to the left.  

Where exactly would you put it?  Are you OK with where they have Fox News?

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