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fantasycurse42

Bloomberg 2020

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4 minutes ago, Sheriff Bart said:

As I posted int the Trump HQ thread, no chance Trump debates any candidate.  None.

I mostly agree with you. Also, even if debates happen, people wildly overestimate their effect on the race. They happen very late in the process, when most people's minds are already made up, and most of them aren't particularly memorable

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26 minutes ago, adonis said:

He barely edged out a win over Hillary.  He's not that great of a candidate.

Give the American public someone decent to vote for, who can stand up to him, and campaign everywhere they should campaign, and he likely loses.

Biden, I'm afraid, would be easy pickings for Trump.  He just doesn't have it imo.  Warren would be OK, but it's really easy to brand her as too far left.  Still, could win if she pivots.  Pete, could stumble if he can't attract minority voters but otherwise is solid.  And Bernie is similar to Warren in terms of weakness, but could likely do OK.

I've not seen Bloomberg in a debate, although I imagine he'd do fine.  I'm sure there's stuff Trump can throw at him, but I agree he's well positioned to be able to handle Trump.  I just don't think he has the convictions of office, and I'm not sold on his judgment politically although I could be convinced.  I think he's a capable leader who is polling to find out the policies that can win it for him, which isn't necessarily a bad thing...I just don't expect conviction from him on the policies he's advancing.  Just that he thinks they're the most reasonable today.

In some ways, being a pragmatist rather than a "believer" may be a good fit for politics today.  I think it allows Trump to be a bit more flexible on things as he has no values to stand behind, just whatever gets him the vote.  If Bloomberg is a little like that, but somewhat more principled in what he's willing to do (things like, oh, I dunno, following rule of law, not soliciting foreign governments to interfere...you know, that stuff), then it may give him some good wiggle room in negotiations where he's not married to any single position but just wants to advance the ball down the field.

That's fine.  As long as his name is not Donald J Trump, we'll be better off as a country if he wins.  

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2 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

He's got deep pockets, he isn't crooked, and he isn't even the slightest bit intimidated by Trump. 

In this order, I think Trump roots for; Bernie, Mayor Pete, Warren, Biden....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bloomberg.

The first 4 he'll make mincemeat of.

You see the Democratic base turning out for a Republican billionaire Iraq War cheerleader that endorsed Giuliani, promoted racist police tactics, is straightup attempting to buy the 2020 election and golfed with Trump?  I don’t.  

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3 minutes ago, The General said:

Did you live in NYC when he was mayor? Am curious how quick on his feet he is during a debate, how he comes across during speeches. 

I did. I honestly don't remember any debates, though they may well have happened. The three Dems he beat in his races were all pretty underwhelming, so I'm not sure how much he was ever truly challenged. Mark Green is a smart guy (even if everyone in NYC hates his guts), so if there are any YouTube clips floating around of their debates those would probably be the most instructive.

ETA: Found one! It's an hour long, so I'm not going to bother watching it, but knock yourself out.

Edited by zftcg
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I don't remember much about Bloomberg debating Green in 2001 or if it even happened.  It was a hazy time, but what I do recall is I think Green was polling 30 points in front on 9/10/2001 (this may have been just as dem vs bloomberg choice though as I look at the Dem primary dates)  But 9/11 happens and it let Bloomberg was carried to a narrow win.   

 

EDIT: Here's their debate, have no watched it yet  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf8uLxdTy-E

Edited by Smack Tripper

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9 minutes ago, zftcg said:

I did. I honestly don't remember any debates, though they may well have happened. The three Dems he beat in his races were all pretty underwhelming, so I'm not sure how much he was ever truly challenged. Mark Green is a smart guy (even if everyone in NYC hates his guts), so if there are any YouTube clips floating around of their debates those would probably be the most instructive.

ETA: Found one! It's an hour long, so I'm not going to bother watching it, but knock yourself out.

I’ll probably youtube a bit.

He did a bit of an interview a couple weeks back and it was very meh. He does like to mix it up with little Donald which I like (although everyone else seems to think only Trump gets to talk ####). 

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11 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

You see the Democratic base turning out for a Republican billionaire Iraq War cheerleader that endorsed Giuliani, promoted racist police tactics, is straightup attempting to buy the 2020 election and golfed with Trump?  I don’t.  

Take a walk up Rockaway Avenue in Brownsville, have your life in legit danger, then please report back. 

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Just now, fantasycurse42 said:

Take a walk up Rockaway Avenue in Brownsville, have your life in legit danger, then please report back. 

This doesn't respond to ren's point. 

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I don't know about Bloomberg's viability with the D base. That being said, Would Bloomberg lose any state in which Biden/Mayor Pete/Bernie/Warren/Klobacher would win?    For every Bernie Bro that would abandon him.....I'd imagine there would be a Never Trumper or Independent who just doesn't like Trump who would vote for him.

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8 minutes ago, Smack Tripper said:

I don't remember much about Bloomberg debating Green in 2001 or if it even happened.  It was a hazy time, but what I do recall is I think Green was polling 30 points in front on 9/10/2001 (this may have been just as dem vs bloomberg choice though as I look at the Dem primary dates)  But 9/11 happens and it let Bloomberg was carried to a narrow win.   

EDIT: Here's their debate, have no watched it yet  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf8uLxdTy-E

Yeah, that was a crazy few weeks ... I mean, obviously the attacks turned everything upside down, but specifically how it played out with the mayoral race. The Democratic runoff between Green and Freddy Ferrer was scheduled for Sept. 11, and was postponed a couple weeks due to the attacks. Before that happened, Rudy floated a plan to postpone the entire mayoral election so he could serve for a few more months, and incredibly, Green agreed to it! Everyone knew he and Rudy hated each other, so the fact that he went along with it just made him look weak. After a backlash, Rudy abandoned the idea.

Then like a week before the general election, Rudy cut a TV ad formally endorsing Bloomberg. He was at the absolute peak of his popularity at that point, so it made a huge difference. A couple days before the election, Green released a couple ads where he absolutely dumped the oppo kitchen sink on Bloomberg, which backfired spectacularly. The allegations were completely uncorroborated, and made Green look super desperate.

And despite all of that, Bloomberg still only won a 50/48 squeaker!

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7 minutes ago, Getzlaf15 said:

"stop whites too much."   That'll play well.  oof.

If white stops we're over 5%, he is correct according to his facts.  

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3 minutes ago, Thunderlips said:

I don't know about Bloomberg's viability with the D base. That being said, Would Bloomberg lose any state in which Biden/Mayor Pete/Bernie/Warren/Klobacher would win?    For every Bernie Bro that would abandon him.....I'd imagine there would be a Never Trumper or Independent who just doesn't like Trump who would vote for him.

It's a lot of guessing at this point but I don't see Bloomberg as particularly strong in states like Michigan and Wisconsin.  

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38 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Love the Twiiter trolls that post snippets of conversations to suit their agendas. 

:lmao: what context can rescue that clip?

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Just now, Thunderlips said:

I don't know about Bloomberg's viability with the D base. That being said, Would Bloomberg lose any state in which Biden/Mayor Pete/Bernie/Warren/Klobacher would win?    For every Bernie Bro that would abandon him.....I'd imagine there would be a Never Trumper or Independent who just doesn't like Trump who would vote for him.

Would probably have a harder time winning back those Obama-Trump non-college-educated white voters in the Midwest who might be more amenable to a populist message, be it from Trump or Bernie and would resent a Jewish NYC billionaire who made his money on Wall Street.

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4 minutes ago, Smack Tripper said:

:lmao: what context can rescue that clip?

How about statistics? You know, hard numbers of actual crimes? 

But hey, screw math... He was quoting stats. 

IMO, it is a socioeconomic issue, but the numbers are numbers and that was what he was speaking to in that snipped edited quote.

My gut says a portion of the anti-Bloomberg crowd are antisemites :shrug:

 

Edited by fantasycurse42

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32 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

You see the Democratic base turning out for a Republican billionaire Iraq War cheerleader that endorsed Giuliani, promoted racist police tactics, is straightup attempting to buy the 2020 election and golfed with Trump?  I don’t.  

Bloomberg endorsed Rudy? When, in 2008? I don't think that's true.

Giuliani definitely endorsed Bloomberg in 2001, but I'm not aware of Mike returning the favor.

Or did you mean Bloomberg endorsed Bush? Because that is definitely true. I view that as one of his least defensible actions.

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3 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

How about statistics? You know, hard numbers of actual crimes? 

But hey, screw math... He was quoting stats. 

IMO, it is a socioeconomic issue, but the numbers are numbers and that was what he was speaking to in that snipped edited. 

My gut says a portion of the anti-Bloomberg crowd are antisemites :shrug:

 

Is it true 95% of murders in NYC are committed by minorities? 

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2 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

My gut says a portion of the anti-Bloomberg crowd are antisemites :shrug:

 

They're not antisemites, they're Democrats.

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Like I said, it is a socioeconomic issue that needs to be addressed at the core, and nothing will change these numbers until that happens... I've yet to hear any real solutions from anyone. 

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Just now, fantasycurse42 said:

What is the argument you are attempting to have?  Because I don't think it's the same discussion the rest of us are having.

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9 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

How about statistics? You know, hard numbers of actual crimes? 

But hey, screw math... He was quoting stats. 

IMO, it is a socioeconomic issue, but the numbers are numbers and that was what he was speaking to in that snipped edited quote.

My gut says a portion of the anti-Bloomberg crowd are antisemites :shrug:

 

:lmao: so you can reject outright racism in front of you, but you can infer anti Semitic intentions?

wait til the people supporting bernie over bloomy get the bad news

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13 minutes ago, zftcg said:

Yeah, that was a crazy few weeks ... I mean, obviously the attacks turned everything upside down, but specifically how it played out with the mayoral race. The Democratic runoff between Green and Freddy Ferrer was scheduled for Sept. 11, and was postponed a couple weeks due to the attacks. Before that happened, Rudy floated a plan to postpone the entire mayoral election so he could serve for a few more months, and incredibly, Green agreed to it! Everyone knew he and Rudy hated each other, so the fact that he went along with it just made him look weak. After a backlash, Rudy abandoned the idea.

Then like a week before the general election, Rudy cut a TV ad formally endorsing Bloomberg. He was at the absolute peak of his popularity at that point, so it made a huge difference. A couple days before the election, Green released a couple ads where he absolutely dumped the oppo kitchen sink on Bloomberg, which backfired spectacularly. The allegations were completely uncorroborated, and made Green look super desperate.

And despite all of that, Bloomberg still only won a 50/48 squeaker!

OK, just looked up the Wikipedia page on the election to refresh my memory. Sept. 11 was the scheduled date for the original primary, not the runoff as I had claimed. It was then held on the 25th, and Ferrer beat Green 35/30. The runoff election between those two took place on Oct. 11.

The other thing that happened during that period was that someone distributed anti-Ferrer flyers criticizing his alliance with Al Sharpton that were viewed as racist (I think they showed Ferrer kissing Sharpton's butt). Green denied having anything to do with them, which was later born out, but it left bad feelings among the black/Latino communities even after he narrowly defeated Ferrer in the runoff, and almost certainly helped Bloomberg hold his margins down among those groups in the general.

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Just now, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

What is the argument you are attempting to have?  Because I don't think it's the same discussion the rest of us are having.

You said I didn't address Ren's point when he called tactics racist. They aren't racist, nor was the clip of Bloomberg... He was speaking to stats, but move the goalposts a little, I feel like liberals are excellent at that. 

Stop & frisk addresses the issue at the point of attack, it doesn't address the issue at its core, which again, is a socioeconomic issue.

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3 minutes ago, Smack Tripper said:

:lmao: so you can reject outright racism in front of you, but you can infer anti Semitic intentions?

wait til the people supporting bernie over bloomy get the bad news

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Bernie bros have no chance, they couldn't even topple Hillary, yet alone Trump. We don't need a lot of the delusional Bernie Bros, we need the fringe Trump supporters, which Bloomberg will get.

Oh, and apparently the hard stats are racist.

Edited by fantasycurse42

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Just now, fantasycurse42 said:

You said I didn't address Ren's point when he called tactics racist. They aren't racist, nor was the clip of Bloomberg... He was speaking to stats, but move the goalposts a little, I feel like liberals are excellent at that. 

Stop & frisk addresses the issue at the point of attack, it doesn't address the issue at its core, which again, is a socioeconomic issue.

Ren's point was that Bloomberg would have a difficult time appealing to big chunks of the Democratic base.  Whether or not you think his policies were justified isn't responsive.

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Just now, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Ren's point was that Bloomberg would have a difficult time appealing to big chunks of the Democratic base.  Whether or not you think his policies were justified isn't responsive.

It's a shame that base is all over the place, no one candidate can address it. That, in itself, will give us 4 more years of Trump. 

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De Blasio, super liberal mayor 2019

Bloomberg's last year as mayor of NYC

Looking at these numbers, not sure how his tactics were so racist :shrug: 

The percentages are higher against whites and lower against blacks with the racist Bloomberg at mayor.

 

 

Edited by fantasycurse42

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30 minutes ago, zftcg said:

Bloomberg endorsed Rudy? When, in 2008? I don't think that's true.

Giuliani definitely endorsed Bloomberg in 2001, but I'm not aware of Mike returning the favor.

Or did you mean Bloomberg endorsed Bush? Because that is definitely true. I view that as one of his least defensible actions.

Well, I got it from this clip of Chris Christie.  Haven't seen it myself though.  He did respond affirmatively that Rudy Giuliani would be a good governor in 2009.  

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Bloomberg endorsed Pat Toomey in 2016.  This isn't ancient history.  

ETA:  And it's not some isolated incident.  He has a long history of endorsing and contributing to Republicans.  Apparently he also endorsed and gave large contributions to some Republicans in 2018.

Politico article

Edited by fatguyinalittlecoat

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3 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

De Blasio, super liberal mayor 2019

Bloomberg's last year as mayor of NYC

Looking at these numbers, not sure how his tactics were so racist :shrug: 

The percentages are higher against whites and lower against blacks with the racist Bloomberg at mayor.

It's not a mystery man, lol.  He's on tape saying they stop whites too much, and minorities too little.  Anyone with functioning blinkers, most of all black voters, can see that the criminal justice system is disproportionately racist against minorities.  It's racist against them because of the ideology of people like Mike Bloomberg.  There are no book reports or PD stats that can make that go away.  They will turn their backs on him and he will deserve it.  

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Just now, ren hoek said:

It's not a mystery man, lol.  

No, it isn't... That's what numbers and stats are for, such as the hard and indisputable data I posted. 

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3 hours ago, Captain Cranks said:

Well, there's no such thing as impeachable behavior anymore, so what would be the point?

same reasons as with Democrats and Trump in 2016 - make a pledge day one to impeach him at some point I guess 

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3 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

same reasons as with Democrats and Trump in 2016 - make a pledge day one to impeach him at some point I guess 

Yeah...and just happen to get lifelong Republicans in the intelligence and diplomatic communities to spearhead the efforts.  It's laughable that someone can, with a straight face, say there's absolutely no reason the Mueller investigation or impeachment should have occurred, but you do you, SC.

Edited by Captain Cranks
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1 hour ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Bernie bros have no chance, they couldn't even topple Hillary, yet alone Trump. We don't need a lot of the delusional Bernie Bros, we need the fringe Trump supporters, which Bloomberg will get.

Oh, and apparently the hard stats are racist.

The fix was  in or haven’t you heard?

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2 hours ago, Sheriff Bart said:

As I posted int the Trump HQ thread, no chance Trump debates any candidate.  None.

I keep hearing this, but don't understand it. He did it before, why wouldn't he now with 4 years of things he perceives and will tout as accomplishments?

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1 hour ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Bloomberg endorsed Pat Toomey in 2016.  This isn't ancient history.  

ETA:  And it's not some isolated incident.  He has a long history of endorsing and contributing to Republicans.  Apparently he also endorsed and gave large contributions to some Republicans in 2018.

Politico article

But is he a lunatic who snorts Adderall? 

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25 minutes ago, ericttspikes said:

But is he a lunatic who snorts Adderall? 

Not only is he not a lunatic, but he can walk 12 feet and speak 3 sentences without wheezing for air. On that alone, he’s got my vote.

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More posts about Trump in the Bloomberg thread than there are about Bloomberg.

 

Tells me everything I need to know. 

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8 hours ago, TripItUp said:

More posts about Trump in the Bloomberg thread than there are about Bloomberg.

 

Tells me everything I need to know. 

That this is a Trump vs not-Trump election?  You understand that's the dynamic, right?

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1 minute ago, Captain Cranks said:

That this is a Trump vs not-Trump election?  You understand that's the dynamic, right?

Well it's the wrong one.  Let's get the candidate best suited to help the citizens of the US.  The Trump stuff will take care of itself.

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16 hours ago, Captain Cranks said:

Yeah...and just happen to get lifelong Republicans in the intelligence and diplomatic communities to spearhead the efforts.  It's laughable that someone can, with a straight face, say there's absolutely no reason the Mueller investigation or impeachment should have occurred, but you do you, SC.

now to be fair ... Democrats day 1 of Trump's presidency called for impeachment right ?  that the end result is all that matters and just finding the means to get there ..... seems a bit premeditated doesn't it? Trump wasn't found to have done anything wrong with Russia nor with Ukraine nor with anything else

so if the "reasons" for those witch hunts seem valid to you, I suppose that's fine..... which is why I said start looking for impeachable offenses for Bloomberg before November, get a jump on it, right ? 

actually any of them ... Buttigieg or Bernie or Amy ... get dirt on them all right now so if one gets elected, start moving towards impeaching in Jan 2021

isn't that what DNC did ? 

 

Edited by Stealthycat

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12 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

Well it's the wrong one.  Let's get the candidate best suited to help the citizens of the US.  The Trump stuff will take care of itself.

You haven't been paying close attention to US politics if you still believe in this ideal.  This is not a time for 'how things should be.'  We gotta play the cards we're dealt.

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