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Brett Kavanaugh (3 Viewers)

Would your answer to # 2 be any different if BK was a liberal judge appointed by Barrack Obama?

  • Yes

    Votes: 16 7.0%

  • No

    Votes: 212 93.0%
  • Total voters
    228
The Commish said:
Isn't that the story about Kavanaugh, his penis, his friend and the girl?  While it could absolutely be hearsay and completely fabricated, the scenario seems to be the very definition of sexual assault to me :shrug:  
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"Kavanaugh didn't commit sexual assault.  He simply allowed his friends to commit sexual assault with his penis."

Edit: I truly don't mean that as a put down for anyone in particular, I'm really trying to think of anything that would make this not a crime and that struck me as something a defense attorney would say.

 
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Henry Ford said:
"Kavanaugh didn't commit sexual assault.  He simply allowed his friends to commit sexual assault with his penis."

Edit: I truly don't mean that as a put down for anyone in particular, I'm really trying to think of anything that would make this not a crime and that struck me as something a defense attorney would say.
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My question to this whole thing is if people really believe that Kavanaugh doing that on his own with his penis is significantly different from someone else doing it with his penis.  Doesn't seem like we'll get an answer, but it's certainly an interesting place to draw the line on sexual assault :oldunsure:  

 
The Commish said:
My question to this whole thing is if people really believe that Kavanaugh doing that on his own with his penis is significantly different from someone else doing it with his penis.  Doesn't seem like we'll get an answer, but it's certainly an interesting place to draw the line on sexual assault :oldunsure:  
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It’s significantly weirder. 

 
The Commish said:
My question to this whole thing is if people really believe that Kavanaugh doing that on his own with his penis is significantly different from someone else doing it with his penis.  Doesn't seem like we'll get an answer, but it's certainly an interesting place to draw the line on sexual assault :oldunsure:  
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Something also weird to me is looking back at Mark Judge’s behavior in retrospect of the revelations by Ramirez and Stier:

>>Both Brett and Mark were drunkenly laughing during the attack. They seemed to be having a very good time.

Mark seemed ambivalent, at times urging Brett on and at times telling him to stop. A couple of times, I made eye contact with Mark and thought he might try to help me, but he did not.

During this assault, Mark came over and jumped on the bed twice while Brett was on top of me. And the last time that he did this, we toppled over and Brett was no longer on top of me. I was able to get up and run out of the room.<<

- Question: in this retelling by Ford, *what exactly was Judge doing?

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Something also weird to me is looking back at Mark Judge’s behavior in retrospect of the revelations by Ramirez and Stier:

>>Both Brett and Mark were drunkenly laughing during the attack. They seemed to be having a very good time.

Mark seemed ambivalent, at times urging Brett on and at times telling him to stop. A couple of times, I made eye contact with Mark and thought he might try to help me, but he did not.

During this assault, Mark came over and jumped on the bed twice while Brett was on top of me. And the last time that he did this, we toppled over and Brett was no longer on top of me. I was able to get up and run out of the room.<<

- Question: in this retelling by Ford, *what exactly was Judge doing?
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Jumping up and down on the bed like a drunk lunatic?  Sort of like the scenes in the Karate Kid where one dude would be fighting him and the others jumping up and down like they were doing something....just a guess.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Something also weird to me is looking back at Mark Judge’s behavior in retrospect of the revelations by Ramirez and Stier:

>>Both Brett and Mark were drunkenly laughing during the attack. They seemed to be having a very good time.

Mark seemed ambivalent, at times urging Brett on and at times telling him to stop. A couple of times, I made eye contact with Mark and thought he might try to help me, but he did not.

During this assault, Mark came over and jumped on the bed twice while Brett was on top of me. And the last time that he did this, we toppled over and Brett was no longer on top of me. I was able to get up and run out of the room.<<

- Question: in this retelling by Ford, *what exactly was Judge doing?
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Where is that from? She originally stated that judge was jumping on top of them, not on the bed. Which is super weird. 

 
Who is Mollie Hemingway? Anybody familiar with her? 

It seems that because of her the NYT added the correction and now she has more to say about the book. She claims that the book states this...

We spoke multiple times to Keyser, who also said that she didn’t recall that get-together or any others like it. In fact, she challenged Ford’s accuracy. “I don’t have any confidence in the story."
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We will obviously find out soon enough if the book actually does say that.

Also wtf is with this open letter to Keyser?  

ETA: CNN confirming the book does say that. This is also in the book which might be the weirdest thing...

The book notes that "months after Kavanaugh was already sitting on the court, a copy of a National Review article on his confirmation hung, framed in Keyser's bathroom. Dated October 8, 2018, it bore the headline "Was Leyland Keyser the Hero of the Kavanaugh Controversy?"
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Henry Ford said:
"Kavanaugh didn't commit sexual assault.  He simply allowed his friends to commit sexual assault with his penis."

Edit: I truly don't mean that as a put down for anyone in particular, I'm really trying to think of anything that would make this not a crime and that struck me as something a defense attorney would say.
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Considering that's borderline admitting that one's client facilitated sexual assault, and considering that's a stupid argument,  no, that isn't something a defense attorney would say. At least this one. 

 
I feel the same way about impeaching Kavanaugh as I do about Trump.  They probably deserve it but if you won’t have the votes in the Senate, don’t bother.  It will just be a loss.

 
hammerva said:
I think it is funny that the party that is all about conversion therapy is using the "she couldn't have been sexually assaulted because she hasn't described his penis".  In the immortal words of Beavis:   WHY DOES EVERYONE WANT TO SEE MY SCHLONG
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I think that it’s funny that when a “victim” either denies an event happened or has no recollection of it whatsoever yet political partisans will still run with the rumor because it confirms their bias. 

Just out of curiosity, could you share the the official Tepublican party platform advocating for conversion therapy.  Or just name, say, ten Republicans who’ve advocated for it since it’s apparently the party position.  Thanks in advance for your anticipated cooperation, and looking forward to your answer.

 
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Zow said:
Considering that's borderline admitting that one's client facilitated sexual assault, and considering that's a stupid argument,  no, that isn't something a defense attorney would say. At least this one. 
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I didn’t say a good one. 

 
Don't need ten you have the vice president.    But fine in order to help your gimmick it isn't an official Republican position   Just a joke about all all these "men" like Ben shapiro trying to help out their friend by wanting a detail description of his penis.  Completely not weird at all

 
Gary Coal Man said:
I think that it’s funny that when a “victim” either denies an event happened or has no recollection of it whatsoever yet political partisans will still run with the rumor because it confirms their bias. 

Just out of curiosity, could you share the the official Tepublican party platform advocating for conversion therapy.  Or just name, say, ten Republicans who’ve advocated for it since it’s apparently the party position.  Thanks in advance for your anticipated cooperation, and looking forward to your answer.
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The Republican Study Committee consists of about 70% of all GOP members of the House and has embarked on a campaign to get Amazon to sell books on conversion therapy that Amazon stopped carrying. 

 
Henry Ford said:
The Republican Study Committee consists of about 70% of all GOP members of the House and has embarked on a campaign to get Amazon to sell books on conversion therapy that Amazon stopped carrying. 
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Was coming to post the exact same link, but figured this would go down the "that's about censorship, not conversion therapy" rabbit hole....it's just a coincidence they chose the topic of conversion therapy as the hill to die on with regards to censorship I'm sure.

 
The Commish said:
Was coming to post the exact same link, but figured this would go down the "that's about censorship, not conversion therapy" rabbit hole....it's just a coincidence they chose the topic of conversion therapy as the hill to die on with regards to censorship I'm sure.
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So you created a strawman that conversion therapy is the paramount issue that conservatives are upset about regarding censorship so that’s the hill they will die on?  Cute argument.

So do you want to discuss Dennis Prager’s lawsuit against YouTube censorship which has nothing to do with conversion therapy?

How about Conservative lawsuits against Twitter which also have nothing to do with conversion therapy.

Is it possible that the argument against censorship is actually about, well, censorship and not conversion therapy?

 
This story is a flat out embarrassment to the NY Times. Is there any debate over this (not having read all of this)?

 
Great, liberals can joke about it.  Meanwhile there is a Democrat Lt. Governor with multiple rape alligations which are far more credible with far more collaboration and no political motivation and Democrats have done nothing and have not even supported hearings.  Democrats, the party of lip service and playing politics with rape.  Awesome dudes.  

 
jon_mx said:
Great, liberals can joke about it.  Meanwhile there is a Democrat Lt. Governor with multiple rape alligations which are far more credible with far more collaboration and no political motivation and Democrats have done nothing and have not even supported hearings.  Democrats, the party of lip service and playing politics with rape.  Awesome dudes.  
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Many of us would like to see hearings or a resignation. But comparing the Lt. Governor of VA to a USSC Justice is utterly ridiculous.

 
Gary Coal Man said:
So you created a strawman that conversion therapy is the paramount issue that conservatives are upset about regarding censorship so that’s the hill they will die on?  Cute argument.
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I said nothing of the sort.  You asked for Republicans that support conversion therapy.  A link was provided. :shrug:   "Hill to die on" is a bit of hyperbole.  Is it your genuine belief that if a scientist was trying to get a book on climate change sold and Amazon was suppressing it for whatever reason, these same people would be rushing to that scientist's rescue?  Of course not...that would be silly.

Gary Coal Man said:
So do you want to discuss Dennis Prager’s lawsuit against YouTube censorship which has nothing to do with conversion therapy?

How about Conservative lawsuits against Twitter which also have nothing to do with conversion therapy.
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Not sure what these have to do with these Republicans supporting conversion therapy.

Gary Coal Man said:
Is it possible that the argument against censorship is actually about, well, censorship and not conversion therapy?
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Of course it's possible, it's just not probable.  Let's not pretend the GOP is similar to the ACLU where the subject of the censorship doesn't matter.  Its rather obvious that these are cases of "I care about censorship when it's convenient" sorts of positions.  If it were about censorship one would think there'd be at least one "defense" crossing party lines.  There isn't.  This administration has made crystal clear their positions on these sorts of things.  That shouldn't be a remotely controversial thing to say.  The ultimate censorship coop is silencing the electorate by not allowing a vote.  Want to take a stab at who's going that route?

 
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Apple Jack said:
Many of us would like to see hearings or a resignation. But comparing the Lt. Governor of VA to a USSC Justice is utterly ridiculous.
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Meh....the GOP holds all the control in that case and have decided to take the Pelosi path of "we need bipartisan support to move forward" load of horse####.  The GOP can move forward without any help from the Dems.  To their credit, they remain silent and turn a blind eye to that sort of behavior.  Shocking, right?

 
President Trump spent a lot of time talking about this last night. I predict he’s going to make it a key part of his campaign. 

 
I found this Vox article to be very slanted and hypocritical. 

They state 

The way the New York Times presented the new allegations was questionable at best
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But in their story they say the following...

The piece, authored by Times reporters Robin Pogrebin and Kate Kelly and adapted from their forthcoming book about the Kavanaugh allegations, describes a “previously unreported story” about how Kavanaugh allegedly “pushed his penis into the hand of a female student” during a “drunken dorm party” when he was a student at Yale
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That is a terrible mischaracterization of what was stated. They clipped the quote intentionally to make it even more salacious.

 The story notes that Times reporters corroborated Stier’s story “with two officials who have communicated with Mr. Stier,” though it doesn’t provide details beyond that.
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This is also BS. Two officials didn't corroborate his story. They allegedly just relayed his words. The word corroborate has been butchered in recent times and completely misused. 

 
timschochet said:
President Trump spent a lot of time talking about this last night. I predict he’s going to make it a key part of his campaign. 
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Lets hope.  He has yet to realize that he's maxed out his base.  They are voting for him no matter what.  Now he needs to find another 5-7% (used to be 3-4%) to get over the hump.  This isn't going to do it, so let him focus on it

 
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The Commish said:
My question to this whole thing is if people really believe that Kavanaugh doing that on his own with his penis is significantly different from someone else doing it with his penis.  Doesn't seem like we'll get an answer, but it's certainly an interesting place to draw the line on sexual assault :oldunsure:  
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Regarding the victim perspective, absolutely not. Regarding what crimes Kavanaugh could be charged with, absolutely. 

Obviously we have only one sentence to go on, and a strange one at that, but if we take the statement as true and we know nothing else and could learn nothing else, I dont see how BK would be guilty of sexual assault. In fact a decent defense atty would probably be able to get him off (no pun intended) of all charges since being naked in public in CT doesn't appear to actually be illegal if you aren't in a body of water and there are no kids around(safe assumption for a college party). The fact that yale actually has naked parties on a regular basis would probably provide fairly easy cover. 

 
Gary Coal Man said:
So you created a strawman that conversion therapy is the paramount issue that conservatives are upset about regarding censorship so that’s the hill they will die on?  Cute argument.

So do you want to discuss Dennis Prager’s lawsuit against YouTube censorship which has nothing to do with conversion therapy?

How about Conservative lawsuits against Twitter which also have nothing to do with conversion therapy.

Is it possible that the argument against censorship is actually about, well, censorship and not conversion therapy?
Click to expand...
Here’s a list of places conversion therapy is banned for use on minors:

California

Connecticut

Delaware

Hawaii

Illinois

Maine

Maryland

Massachusetts

Nevada

New Hampshire

New Jersey

New Mexico

New York

Oregon

Rhode Island

Vermont

Washington

DC

Puerto Rico

Meanwhile, in Texas, the GOP is filing bills to protect it as religious expression. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
The Commish said:
My question to this whole thing is if people really believe that Kavanaugh doing that on his own with his penis is significantly different from someone else doing it with his penis.  Doesn't seem like we'll get an answer, but it's certainly an interesting place to draw the line on sexual assault :oldunsure:  
Click to expand...
Regarding the victim perspective, absolutely not. Regarding what crimes Kavanaugh could be charged with, absolutely. 

Obviously we have only one sentence to go on, and a strange one at that, but if we take the statement as true and we know nothing else and could learn nothing else, I dont see how BK would be guilty of sexual assault. In fact a decent defense atty would probably be able to get him off (no pun intended) of all charges since being naked in public in CT doesn't appear to actually be illegal if you aren't in a body of water and there are no kids around(safe assumption for a college party). The fact that yale actually has naked parties on a regular basis would probably provide fairly easy cover. 
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I probably should have been clearer and stated I was speaking in practical and/or morality driven terms...not legal terms.  I have virtually no information to go down the path of legality here and I am certainly not familiar with the CT laws....no way for me to go one way or the other there without it being a complete guess.

 
Weird, if sexual preference or gender identification are not innate I suspect they are imprinted, and in powerful and unchangeable ways at a fairly young age.  Conversion therapy seems to me extremely unlikely to succeed.  Before one buys into such programs can they show me successful methods in any empirical study?  Could they show me anecdotal evidence based upon objective criteria and not subjective reporting.  For instance could they show me that the techniques or methods were able to cause a cow to be sexually interested in a dog or do their techniques only work on fully self-aware beings, like people, otters, and dolphins?  If so show me they can convert an otter to a dolphin and maybe I buy in.  

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
Weird, if sexual preference or gender identification are not innate I suspect they are imprinted, and in powerful and unchangeable ways at a fairly young age.  Conversion therapy seems to me extremely unlikely to succeed.  Before one buys into such programs can they show me successful methods in any empirical study?  Could they show me anecdotal evidence based upon objective criteria and not subjective reporting.  For instance could they show me that the techniques or methods were able to cause a cow to be sexually interested in a dog or do their techniques only work on fully self-aware beings, like people, otters, and dolphins?  If so show me they can convert an otter to a dolphin and maybe I buy in.  
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I can show you a dog who is sexually interested in my leg.  People have all kinds of weird fetishes which can not be explained by genetics.  Sexual attractions evolve with age.  Sexuality is one of the strongest desires people have and has a very powerful positive reinforcement mechanisms which provides enormous behavior changing results.  Sexual attractions can and do change.  Conversion therapy though is not gonna change it.    

 
parasaurolophus said:
Regarding the victim perspective, absolutely not. Regarding what crimes Kavanaugh could be charged with, absolutely. 

Obviously we have only one sentence to go on, and a strange one at that, but if we take the statement as true and we know nothing else and could learn nothing else, I dont see how BK would be guilty of sexual assault. In fact a decent defense atty would probably be able to get him off (no pun intended) of all charges since being naked in public in CT doesn't appear to actually be illegal if you aren't in a body of water and there are no kids around(safe assumption for a college party). The fact that yale actually has naked parties on a regular basis would probably provide fairly easy cover. 
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Because he and another person (or multiple people) committed an unwanted touching of her person with his genitals.  Assuming no force sufficient to overwhelm Kavanaugh's will was applied, he was a willing participant in a sexual assault.  53a-73a ("Sexual assault in the fourth degree") seems to fit, where Kavanaugh is one of multiple people who fit the following definition: "such person subjects another person to sexual contact without such other person's consent"

CT Code 53a-186 ("public indecency") applies if there is any "arousal" component to it even without any touching.  "Arousal" is a general term - if it was a sexual exposure in nature, it would fit.  It wouldn't be a huge stretch to charge this, or to convict - again, assuming he was forcibly pushed into the victim without having intended or threatened to touch her prior.

Otherwise:

53a-181 ("breach of peace in the second degree") is the usual charge for people annoying or harassing others with lewd behavior.  Naked people get charged with this in Connecticut when the State can't prove an "arousal" component.

53a-182 ("disorderly conduct") also applies.

 
parasaurolophus said:
We don't actually know what "this" is. We don't even have an actual statement from him yet. We have a parsed paraphrasing so far of hearsay. So that alleged comment literally carries zero weight with me. 

The relationship is important because it is a very relevant connection and should have absolutely been disclosed, at the very least in the book(which does not appear to have happened). The previous dealings between Kavanaugh and Stier should also have been mentioned. 

From a july 2018 yale daily news blog.(predates any public knowledge of this new alleged allegation.) 

That's why I mentioned(again) that the NYT piece was an absolute joke. I can no longer access it though due to paywall so if this stuff was disclosed I retract my conclusion regarding its relevance. I don't remember it being in there and the snippets of it posted here and on twitter don't have it in there. 
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If you'd like more background on Max Stier, Newsweek put some stuff together. Yes, he's that Max Stier.

Suggesting that he is partisan is a little weird.  He's CEO of Partnership for Public Service.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
The Brett Kavanaugh thread seems pretty active today.  I think I'll stop by and see how things ar WHAT THE #### IS GOING ON IN HERE????>?
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as much as it took things off topic, we did learn something very important about the mentality of one of the busiest members on the political forum . It explains a lot.

 
I seem to be the only one that can't get past the question of "why were other people pushing Brett Kavanaugh's penis around?"  

 
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