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Climate Change thread: UN Report: we need to take action (2 Viewers)

I’m not sure. It probably is but most people are totally oblivious to how bad this country is in financially. 

If we have WW3 and get a global reset on debt then the green new deal could work. 

The planet would probably be a nuclear wasteland though at that point and everyone would be wishing to go back to just a climate that’s warming. 


Ok. But your argument was that the green new deal was too liberal for a lot of people and would hurt the Dems at the polls.

I don't think that's true. I think - relative to the GOP - the environment is a winning issue for the Dems. And I say that based on the polling we have seen thus far. Obviously that could change, but as of now, it seems like the Dems stand in a lot better position politically on the environment than the GOP does.

 
NREC34 said:
I’m not sure. It probably is but most people are totally oblivious to how bad this country is in financially. 

If we have WW3 and get a global reset on debt then the green new deal could work. 

The planet would probably be a nuclear wasteland though at that point and everyone would be wishing to go back to just a climate that’s warming. 
If we have a WW3 the climate issue wont be your biggest problem.  The planet will be obliterated.

 
NREC34 said:
I’m not sure. It probably is but most people are totally oblivious to how bad this country is in financially. 

If we have WW3 and get a global reset on debt then the green new deal could work. 

The planet would probably be a nuclear wasteland though at that point and everyone would be wishing to go back to just a climate that’s warming. 
To me, warming one thing that could cause WW3.  Too few resources for too many people in areas that are the worst affected.  This is actually one of the areas I agree on, at least to some extent, with people generally to the left of me.  It's going to be hard to address, and I don't know how you get China, India, etc. on board and to buy in. 

 
Do people really think the issue isn't if the planet will survive, but rather the impact on human civilization? Earth can and will survive either a Snowball Earth or a runaway greenhouse effect, leading to Venus-like conditions. The question is what is mankind doing to itself as a result of these rapid changes. The planet itself will continue to exist, obviously.

Oh and as for the thread title, I don't believe it either.

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(Everyone knows Donald Trump can't read).

 
I honestly just wish there was a way in politics to say 'you got us here you pay for it'.  So when the sea level rises 10feet we can take the money from people like Donald Trump to try and adequately deal with it.  

 
I honestly just wish there was a way in politics to say 'you got us here you pay for it'.  So when the sea level rises 10feet we can take the money from people like Donald Trump to try and adequately deal with it.  
I believe AOC wants to do exactly that.    

 
Haven't you heard?

We're extinct in twelve years.
Well, thankfully Idaho is shutting down 2 coal plants by 2025 - and perhaps by taking the steps now to be 100% clean energy - they might just move up their timeframe before we all go extinct.

Kind of beats sitting on your ### complaining about others, doesn't it?

 
Well, thankfully Idaho is shutting down 2 coal plants by 2025 - and perhaps by taking the steps now to be 100% clean energy - they might just move up their timeframe before we all go extinct.

Kind of beats sitting on your ### complaining about others, doesn't it?
We should all thank Idaho for giving us that extra 0.002 seconds of existence.

Thank you Idaho!

 
What’s the purpose of repeating this? You know what is meant. Seriously what are you attempting to prove? 
What was the purpose of AOC saying it in the first place?

It was odd that she put the date only twelve years into the future.  Every other prediction of the earth's demise is placed FAR into the future...so there are fewer people who remember them when they fail to come to fruition.... but plenty of money can be made in the meantime.

In elementary school, I was actually concerned about "the impending ice age".  I remember feeling a bit relieved that I lived in the  SW because the looming ice sheet wouldn't reach this far south....but that was the least of our worries....Overpopulation was what was going to doom the earth before I got to high school.

When I was considering getting married, I wondered if I wanted to be tied down and worrying about any kids (the kids I would have because the overpopulation scare was total BS) when the earth either burned to dust and blew away or when the levels of the oceans reached my bottom lip.

Now that I am older, I have figured out that these were all fears of someone who listened to (and believed) the wrong people.

Every day of my life has involved the sun rising in the east and setting in the west. 

Summers have been warmer than the winters, it's still windy in the Spring, and gullible people are still pointing at computer models and screaming that the sky is falling.  Not one...NOT ONE of any predictions of doom & gloom that I have heard in my lifetime, have come to pass.

Cry "WOLF!" one too many times and some people will wise up.  

People are still making money because of scared and gullible people who actually believe that since we started "climate change"...we can somehow, stop it.

Climate change has been happening since the earth cooled... it is still happening....and will continue to happen no matter how many windmills we tilt at and no matter how much money people make from the fear of it.

...oh...and 50 years later, the entire population of the planet could fit in the state of Texas, giving everyone 1084 sq ft....and if illegal immigration continues,.....who knows?

 
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She didn’t randomly put it at years...as has been explained many times she got that from a UN report.
The same UN that created the UNFPA that thrived on the created crisis of overpopulation in the '60s?? 

That UN?

 
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The same UN that created the UNFPA that thrived on the created crisis of overpopulation in the '60s?? 

That UN?
I’m not playing a round and round game where you won’t address what’s actually said and try to deflect with this type of stuff.

 
I’m not playing a round and round game where you won’t address what’s actually said and try to deflect with this type of stuff.
It’s really aggravating because Opie can engage in intelligent conversation when he wants to. But in this case it’s just deflect and mock, much like the President. 

 
It’s really aggravating because Opie can engage in intelligent conversation when he wants to. But in this case it’s just deflect and mock, much like the President. 
Since when does pointing out events of our past that should make you think about the present or the future, deviate from "intelligent conversation".

People get rich from UN schemes....they have in the past, they do now, and they will in the future.  Basically, when the UN gets involved, there is money to be made.

We aren't talking about buying stock here...

How about you start to consider past results when predicting future performance?

 
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Since when does pointing out events of our past that should make you think about the present or the future, deviate from "intelligent conversation".

People get rich from UN schemes....they have in the past, they do now, and they will in the future.  Basically, when the UN gets involved, there is money to be made.

We aren't talking about buying stock here...

How about you start to consider past results when predicting future performance?
As you’re no doubt aware, it wasn’t the United Nations that wrote this latest report; it was done under their auspices by a large number of scientists with tremendous credibility on this subject matter. Their findings were very consistent with previous findings. 

You know all this. If you mean to challenge their findings, then do so. Tell us how and why they’re wrong. Pointing out previous UN reports from 40 years ago is deflecting. 

 
As you’re no doubt aware, it wasn’t the United Nations that wrote this latest report; it was done under their auspices by a large number of scientists with tremendous credibility on this subject matter. Their findings were very consistent with previous findings. 

You know all this. If you mean to challenge their findings, then do so. Tell us how and why they’re wrong. Pointing out previous UN reports from 40 years ago is deflecting. 
The UN had backing of scientists in the '60s when the UNFPA was formed to "do something" about the planet's overpopulation problem. 

If there would have been a UN way back when, "scientists" would have predicted the end was coming if the earth ever became round.

What's your point?

"Scientists" receive funding because of the existence of these "problems".

As I've said before....pay me millions of dollars to follow the threat of Bigfoot...and Bigfoot will live AND be a threat to humanity.

 
The UN had backing of scientists in the '60s when the UNFPA was formed to "do something" about the planet's overpopulation problem. 

If there would have been a UN way back when, "scientists" would have predicted the end was coming if the earth ever became round.

What's your point?

"Scientists" receive funding because of the existence of these "problems".

As I've said before....pay me millions of dollars to follow the threat of Bigfoot...and Bigfoot will live AND be a threat to humanity.
Last time: Do you have any specific refutation of what they wrote? 

 
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Last time:-) Do you have any specific refutation of what they wrote? 
Last time...they make money if it exists.....that is their motivation.  

Using your methodology.....Prove me wrong.

IF the clock is ticking on the planet...why did the Dems not vote for the GND??

IF the threat is sooo real...why don't they change their carbon footprint?

 
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Last time...they make money if it exists.....that is their motivation.  

Using your methodology.....Prove me wrong.
Do you believe that most scientists are willing to lie and fabricate false information for money, putting their lifelong professional reputations at risk, or does this only apply to climatologists? 

 
Do you believe that most scientists are willing to lie and fabricate false information for money, putting their lifelong professional reputations at risk, or does this only apply to climatologists? 
What?  It's never happened?

...and "most scientists" have never been wrong?

"On November 1, AFP joined news outlets around the world in covering the release of a major academic paper warning that our oceans were warming dramatically quicker than previously thought.

The study was undertaken by some of the world's most pre-eminent climate scientists, using state-of-the-art modelling systems reviewed by their peers, and appeared in one of the most prestigious academic journals.

There was just one problem: it was wrong."

...............

"It is very important that the media outlets that unquestioningly trumpeted the paper's findings now correct the record too. But perhaps that is too much to hope for," he added.

With the rectified calculation, the authors quickly realised they had made a mistake.

The new results had a far larger range of possibilities in ocean temperature increases—between 10 and 70 percent: still warmer, but rendering the study vague even for the sometimes unknowable science of climate modelling.

"We quickly realised that our calculations incorrectly treated systematic errors in the O2 measurements as if they were random errors in the error propagation," author Ralph Keeling wrote on climatehome.org.

"We really muffed the error margins," he told the San Diego Tribune.

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2018-11-climate-scientists-wrong.html#jCp

People need to stop thinking of "man made" climate change as if it were a religious doctrine that is to be followed without question and treating those who dare to question their religion, as heiratics.
 

 
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you don't know that - because for 4.5 billions years, nobody really kept records

I've asked people before .... what if for the next 30 years starting right now, temperatures globally FALL ............ what will global warming people say? 
What will they say? Heck I’m wondering how they will keep warm what with the fossil fuel ban and or price hikes/rationing they envision. Hope it’s cold AND WINDY so at least a few wind mill churned dead birds will turn up and maybe the heat will kick on. LOL

But seriously now, just like WMDs in Iraq was fake news and Russia-gate coulda started WW3 but of course that was fake manufactured news too. Global warming, well that’s just another hook line and stinker for the easily fooled. Repeat a lie often enough and make it a big lie. 

Here is a report from BBC news quoting two scientists one from GA Tech saying CO2 is great for plants and we may need more not less.The article had the alarmist view in there too (rare in MSM to see balanced views). You very smug “the science is settled” people need to be less close minded. I’m pretty sure you probably got hoodwinked again.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-36130346

 
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Global warming, well that’s just another hook line and stinker for the easily fooled. Repeat a lie often enough and make it a big lie. 
well there are facts on the earth heating and cooling ........... WHY is the core question

again  -  glaciers have retreated and advanced throughout the history of the earth ...... is what we've seen in 20 years cyclical , is it from a shift in earth's axis, a change in our sun, volcanoes ..... human trashing of the planet ? that's what is unknown 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/03/one-part-of-greenland-ice-growing/

 
well there are facts on the earth heating and cooling ........... WHY is the core question

again  -  glaciers have retreated and advanced throughout the history of the earth ...... is what we've seen in 20 years cyclical , is it from a shift in earth's axis, a change in our sun, volcanoes ..... human trashing of the planet ? that's what is unknown 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/03/one-part-of-greenland-ice-growing/
I understand. Should have said man-made cataclysmic climate change alarmism to be more specific lol.

 
global cooling, hole in ozone layer, acid rain, forecasted worst year for hurricanes ........... humans seem to love Apocalyptic views on the future
I know. You would think the “science” would show that fracking is bad for our water supply and that the messiah would have stopped that while he was king. Seeing how they are the self proclaimed environmentally friendly party they should have been able to get at least a national aluminum can and plastic bottle return program established.

Too busy working on important stuff like teaching kids they can pick their gender and that the KKK and Nazis are so prevalent now that they need safe spaces in college and protection from gasp free speech and other constitutional rights. How we ever got a black President for 8 years with all these hordes of rabid racist Trumpers is still a mystery.

 
I know. You would think the “science” would show that fracking is bad for our water supply and that the messiah would have stopped that while he was king. Seeing how they are the self proclaimed environmentally friendly party they should have been able to get at least a national aluminum can and plastic bottle return program established.

Too busy working on important stuff like teaching kids they can pick their gender and that the KKK and Nazis are so prevalent now that they need safe spaces in college and protection from gasp free speech and other constitutional rights. How we ever got a black President for 8 years with all these hordes of rabid racist Trumpers is still a mystery.
And here is your stereotypical Trump supporter.  Welcome. 

 
global cooling, hole in ozone layer, acid rain, forecasted worst year for hurricanes ........... humans seem to love Apocalyptic views on the future
Yeah I believe there is a pouplar old book that uses a coming Apocalypse as a core tenant.   Damn the name of that book escapes me though. 🤔

 
I honestly just wish there was a way in politics to say 'you got us here you pay for it'.  So when the sea level rises 10feet we can take the money from people like Donald Trump to try and adequately deal with it.  
Since our internet posts will live forever, maybe just do a history and people who deny the issue get left out of the higher regions when the earth floods over? ;)

You thought it was a hoax? Here's a nice house on the coast of Fla for you... 

 
Not sure which guys your referring too?   Also I didn’t say I believe in said book, just pointing out the irony of it all.  
Me too just being goofy. Actually would be cool if there were more things to collaborate and agree on between people but man the identity politics divide and conquer sure seems to be working 

 
Me too just being goofy. Actually would be cool if there were more things to collaborate and agree on between people but man the identity politics divide and conquer sure seems to be working 
Me too.  As a centrist I see the extremes on both sides and they are both doing the same thing yet are yelling at the other side about how crazy they are.  It’s insanity really.  

 
I honestly just wish there was a way in politics to say 'you got us here you pay for it'.  So when the sea level rises 10feet we can take the money from people like Donald Trump to try and adequately deal with it.  
You drive a car?  You use electricity?  You breath? You got us here too then.   Trump is at least pushing nuclear power forward, which is currently the only viable option to eliminating greenhouse gas emissions. 

 
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tasker-federal-carbon-tax-explainer-1.5077445

The federal Liberal government will begin levying its carbon tax on greenhouse gas-emitting fuels today in the four provinces that have refused to take part in the pan-Canadian climate framework.

The tax or levy is designed to lower the country's carbon emissions so Canada can meet the reduction targets it agreed to at the Paris climate summit.

In Ontario, Manitoba, New Brunswick and Saskatchewan, where conservative-minded governments have steadfastly opposed any sort of carbon pricing scheme, Ottawa will apply its carbon tax on fossil fuels — which starts this year at $20 per tonne of GHG emissions. In the provinces that already have other carbon pricing measures, such as Alberta, B.C. and Quebec, nothing changes, since they have models Ottawa has deemed acceptable.

The four provincial governments opposed to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's plan — along with the federal Conservative party — fear it will be economically damaging and far too punitive for consumers and small businesses.

Supporters of the Liberal plan say the threat of climate change demands action and a revenue-neutral plan of this sort is the best way to shift patterns of consumption away from GHG-emitting fossil fuels.

How much is this whole thing going to cost me?

Based on federal figures, the tax in the four non-compliant provinces will result in an approximate cost increase of 4.42 cents a litre for gasoline, 5.37 cents for light fuel oil (home heating fuel), 3.91 cents per cubic metre for natural gas and 3.10 cents per litre for propane.

Based on those figures, and according to calculations by CBC News, the average Ontario household will pay roughly $10 more a month for natural gas (based on average of 252 m3 of consumption) as of April 1.

The figure will be considerably lower in the summer but possibly much higher in the winter, when natural gas consumption for home heating spikes. The average Ontario household, for example, consumes about 419 m3 of natural gas in January but only 51 m3 in July, according to data supplied to CBC News by the Ontario Energy Board regulator.

The cost to fill an empty residential oil tank, which are common in places like rural New Brunswick and vary greatly in size, will increase by about $48 for a 910-litre model.

The cost to fully refuel a Honda Civic (based on a 47-litre tank) will increase by about $2, while a full fill-up for a Ford Explorer SUV will cost about $3 more.

Those costs are expected to rise each year as the carbon tax increases by $10/tonne until it hits $50 in 2022 — meaning those costs will more than double in less than three years' time.

Consumers will not pay the tax directly to the federal government; rather, Ottawa will impose the tax on fuel and production and distribution companies, which will in turn pass on those costs to customers.

A carbon price will be levied in the three northern territories starting July 1, 2019.

How much will I get as a carbon rebate?

To compensate for the cost of living increase, the federal government has vowed to return every single dollar it collects in carbon tax to the people in the province in which it was collected — an attempt to make household budgets whole on the money they'll shell out as part of this carbon reduction scheme.

In fact, some Canadians are already set to receive the 'Climate Action Incentive payment', or rebate. It's paid to eligible taxpayers who claim it on their 2018 tax return with the Canada Revenue Agency.

Ottawa has said future payments will be made annually and will reflect about a year's worth of emissions.

Here's what the average household (defined by Ottawa as 2.6 people) will receive from the federal government:

In Ontario: about $300 a year.

In New Brunswick: $248.

In Manitoba: $336.

In Saskatchewan: $598.

If a taxpayer is entitled to a tax refund, that refund would be boosted by the amount each household is entitled to under the new climate incentive payment program. If you owe the federal government money at tax time, that amount would be reduced by the amount you stand to gain from this initiative. There is only one rebate or tax reduction per household.

The amount will vary based on the province and the number of people in a household. The payment is not a means-tested benefit and does not depend on income levels.

For example, a single adult in Ontario would see about $154 next year from the payment.

Is the carbon tax revenue-neutral?

While the federal government has insisted the carbon tax will be revenue-neutral for the federal government, a government official speaking at a technical briefing for journalists acknowledged that some Canadians — about 30 per cent of them — will pay more per year in carbon taxes than they stand to gain from the new rebate program.

The official said these people are more likely to be wealthier Canadians who have to heat bigger homes or own larger vehicles.

The government says the other 70 per cent of Canadians will receive more in climate rebate payments than they'll pay each year through the new carbon tax.

Why are the federal Liberals doing this?

Canada signed on to ambitious emissions reduction targets at the Paris climate accord meeting in 2015. A national pricing strategy is seen by Ottawa as the best way to live up to the accord.

The Liberal government maintained the same targets set by the former Conservative government: 17 per cent below 2005 levels by 2020 and 30 per cent below by 2030.

The government projects the pricing plan will reduce carbon pollution by 50 million to 60 million tonnes by 2022 — the equivalent of taking 12 million cars off the road, or closing 14 coal plants.

But the federal government has conceded a carbon price alone won't be enough to meet those Paris targets.

The national climate plan also includes other measures to battle climate change, including new building codes to boost energy efficiency, more charging stations for electric cars, expansion of clean electricity sources and upgrades to power grids.

Has a carbon tax ever worked before?

In 2008, B.C. implemented North America's first broad-based carbon tax. The province has seen some success with its carbon-neutral plan: it lowered income taxes to compensate for an increase in consumption taxes on fossil fuels — the bottom two personal income tax rates were cut, low-income families got a tax credit and the corporate tax rate was slashed.

And according to B.C. government figures, provincial real GDP grew more than 17 per cent, while net emissions declined by 4.7 per cent, between 2007 and 2015.

 
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The Liberal government maintained the same targets set by the former Conservative government: 17 per cent below 2005 levels by 2020 and 30 per cent below by 2030.
Nice post. This was the most interesting part for me. Both parties agreed climate change is real and both taking substantive action.

 

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