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Jamal Khashoggi - Journalist Killed in Saudi Consulate (2 Viewers)

Didn't Trump just declare that we were the worlds great oil exporter? Wouldn't we want higher prices? I bet the oil and gas producers in the Baaken and Powder River Basins - maybe even in the Permian are all for going lower and cutting margins as well. Look for some layoffs to start in the Dakotas, Wyoming, Texas and Oklahoma. This guy is an amazing leader.
Also there's this:
 

CBC News Alerts‏ @CBCAlerts 1h1 hour ago

Donald Trump has just tweeted a thank you to Saudi Arabia for current low oil prices, which he likens to 'a big Tax Cut for America and the World!' In fact, Canada is the US's biggest supplier of imported oil at 40%, compared to only 11% from Saudi Arabia.
Just a pathetic suck-up to a country that is currently getting away with murdering an American journalist. Add Saudi Arabia to the long list of countries that have made America their ##### since we elected Donald Trump. 

 
what like 10% of our oil imports come from SA?
even still what are they not going to sell us oil?  we're the world's largest customer and we have our own supply.  the oil angle is just a way to try and make it somewhat understandable as to why we'd agree to look the other way.

this whole thing isn't about SA can / will do for the US...it's about what SA can / did / will do for Trump and his business empire.

 
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Hey America! Don't forget to be thankful this holiday weekend for lower gas prices! And don't forget to thank a dead journalist for it! Don't forget to wash the blood off your hands after pumping that cheap oil into your tank.
You put oil in your gas tank? How's your car running these days?  :P

 
As somebody just pointed out on the news: even if we accept Trump’s doctrine that this is all about business (a disgusting notion), Saudi Arabia has no leverage here. They can’t raise oil prices because it hurts them far more than it hurts us. 

 
As somebody just pointed out on the news: even if we accept Trump’s doctrine that this is all about business (a disgusting notion), Saudi Arabia has no leverage here. They can’t raise oil prices because it hurts them far more than it hurts us. 
also, SA doesn't control oil prices....the prices are driven by the world markets...they can certainly impact supply which could ultimately impact prices to some respect but they aren't the only player in town like they were a decade or so ago...

 
Thinking about this, Trump was most likely in on it.  Another trial balloon.  Keep boiling the frog.  He's much better at this game that I thought he'd be.  

 
Didn't Trump just declare that we were the worlds great oil exporter? Wouldn't we want higher prices? I bet the oil and gas producers in the Baaken and Powder River Basins - maybe even in the Permian are all for going lower and cutting margins as well. Look for some layoffs to start in the Dakotas, Wyoming, Texas and Oklahoma. This guy is an amazing leader.
You are making a big mistake here. You are thinking about things that were said/done in the past. Trump doesn't learn from history, he makes history. Once Trump says something, it's only relevant untill Trump says something else. Be like the goldfish. 

 
Thinking about this, Trump was most likely in on it.  Another trial balloon.  Keep boiling the frog.  He's much better at this game that I thought he'd be.  
I know what the expression supposedly means, but it's a funny thing:  the frog won't actually let that happen.  It reacts rather violently as the water heats.

 
shocking...

Manu Raju‏Verified account @mkraju

No comment yet from Mitch McConnell on whether he supports Trump's decision to side with Saudi Arabia, and his office will not say if he has any comment.

7:45 AM - 21 Nov 2018

 
Also there's this:
 

Just a pathetic suck-up to a country that is currently getting away with murdering an American journalist. Add Saudi Arabia to the long list of countries that have made America their ##### since we elected Donald Trump. 
Hmmm. Not sure it's since the election of Trump. Dubya acted as their ##### as well, not investigating ties to 9/11. Again, maybe?

 
As somebody just pointed out on the news: even if we accept Trump’s doctrine that this is all about business (a disgusting notion), Saudi Arabia has no leverage here. They can’t raise oil prices because it hurts them far more than it hurts us. 
also, SA doesn't control oil prices....the prices are driven by the world markets...they can certainly impact supply which could ultimately impact prices to some respect but they aren't the only player in town like they were a decade or so ago...
And right now Trump's tariffs are forcing the world to reassess growth expectations. If there is one thing that sends the oil price down it is expected reduction of future demand, such as when economies slow down......

 
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You are making a big mistake here. You are thinking about things that were said/done in the past. Trump doesn't learn from history, he makes history. Once Trump says something, it's only relevant untill Trump says something else. Be like the goldfish. 
Trump's 2020 slogan

"Be the Goldfish"

ETA: Or as Melania would say: Be Goldfish

 
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Hmmm. Not sure it's since the election of Trump. Dubya acted as their ##### as well, not investigating ties to 9/11. Again, maybe?
I guess to some degree.  But I don't think a previous administration would have let them get away with something like this. Also, like I said this is just one of a long list of countries that have punked us since Trump. Russia obviously, North Korea, even Finland is mocking his comment about the rakes.

 
shocking...

Manu Raju‏Verified account @mkraju

No comment yet from Mitch McConnell on whether he supports Trump's decision to side with Saudi Arabia, and his office will not say if he has any comment.

7:45 AM - 21 Nov 2018
Despite McConnell approach not touching this topic, it was interesting reading criticisms from other key Republican senators yesterday, including Corker, Paul and Graham. It shouldn't be a surprise, but after all of the previous/present non-criticisms and/or soft support of every other misstep, it is eye catching. One has to wonder at what point republicans choose to jump ship out of self preservation. Navigating these daily controversies has to be maddening coming off the 2018 election, knowing there will be more of the same coming from the White House until 2020 - proven to be a recipe for disaster re: the US masses. 

 
Despite McConnell approach not touching this topic, it was interesting reading criticisms from other key Republican senators yesterday, including Corker, Paul and Graham. It shouldn't be a surprise, but after all of the previous/present non-criticisms and/or soft support of every other misstep, it is eye catching. One has to wonder at what point republicans choose to jump ship out of self preservation. Navigating these daily controversies has to be maddening coming off the 2018 election, knowing there will be more of the same coming from the White House until 2020 - proven to be a recipe for disaster re: the US masses. 
Forgive my skepticism, but let’s see if they do anything beyond the “I’m gravely disappointed” soundbytes. 

 
Forgive my skepticism, but let’s see if they do anything beyond the “I’m gravely disappointed” soundbytes. 
Totally agreed. However, I'm curious whether you think Republicans see anything coming out of the White House as furthering their ambitions for 2020? Would they really just go all the way down with the ship, as a party? I consider myself an equal opportunity political cynic, which I suppose makes me independent, and there is zero chance this party reaches me in it's current state. That said, there is not much going on that I would typically view as longstanding Republican stance. Some of it yes, most of it no.

 
Totally agreed. However, I'm curious whether you think Republicans see anything coming out of the White House as furthering their ambitions for 2020? Would they really just go all the way down with the ship, as a party? I consider myself an equal opportunity political cynic, which I suppose makes me independent, and there is zero chance this party reaches me in it's current state. That said, there is not much going on that I would typically view as longstanding Republican stance. Some of it yes, most of it no.
The answer is yes. 90% of Republican voters support Trump. 100% of the Republican base STRONGLY support Trump with a passion that is fanatical and impervious to reason, logic, or change. 

Unless these numbers change (and I can’t think of why they would) I don’t see GOP politicians or leadership ever seriously challenging him. 

 
The answer is yes. 90% of Republican voters support Trump. 100% of the Republican base STRONGLY support Trump with a passion that is fanatical and impervious to reason, logic, or change. 

Unless these numbers change (and I can’t think of why they would) I don’t see GOP politicians or leadership ever seriously challenging him. 
Maybe the pee tape come out.  And its all dudes.  That might do it.  

 
Despite McConnell approach not touching this topic, it was interesting reading criticisms from other key Republican senators yesterday, including Corker, Paul and Graham. It shouldn't be a surprise, but after all of the previous/present non-criticisms and/or soft support of every other misstep, it is eye catching. One has to wonder at what point republicans choose to jump ship out of self preservation. Navigating these daily controversies has to be maddening coming off the 2018 election, knowing there will be more of the same coming from the White House until 2020 - proven to be a recipe for disaster re: the US masses. 
well, the mid-terms have to be eye opening for them with some of the demographics.  This gives them a good excuse to distance / call out the president but more than just sending a tweet or giving a TV interview they actually need to do something.

 
The answer is yes. 90% of Republican voters support Trump. 100% of the Republican base STRONGLY support Trump with a passion that is fanatical and impervious to reason, logic, or change. 
I don't know enough to reply on the substance of those numbers, but close calls in clear red states seems to suggest that is 90%-100% of a different population than Republicans have historically reached. My dad went from Liberal to a Reagan Republican over the years, and my uneducated sense is that is not uncommon but is based on a person becoming more fiscally conservative with age. If he was still around, he would not have been in support of any of the platform stances from the 2018 party. Setting the circus aside, spending billions on an immigration wall and trillions on a billionaire tax cut would not have resonated with him at all. Certainly putting a price tag on a death like Khashoggi's would have made him ashamed of the party. 

 
Ted Lieu added,

Donald Trump has just tweeted a thank you to Saudi Arabia for current low oil prices, which he likens to 'a big Tax Cut for America and the World!' In fact, Canada is the US's biggest supplier of imported oil at 40%, compared to only 11% from Saudi Arabia.

Ted Lieu Retweeted CBC News Alerts

Dear @realDonaldTrump:  Also, Canadians didn't attack America on 9/11, nor did they murder a US resident in their embassy, cut him up into pieces, and then lied to you and the American people about the murder. Why do you grovel before Saudi Arabia?

 
The great conservative minds of FBGs havent shown up here yet either. 
There are some great conservative minds here but they are firmly anti-Trump. I'm sure the folks you are referring to though are the posters that claim they aren't pro-Trump but defend everything he says and does as if their life depended on it. 

 
I'm sure @jon_mx and @ren hoek will be along shortly to criticize the President for this, given how even handed they are with their criticisms of political failures.
This is cheap gr00vus.  First of all, to pretend that this is just a Trump thing, as opposed to a long line of US presidents demonstrating complete fealty to Saudi Arabia is rewriting history.  People acting all surprised by this as if it hasn't been standard US policy for decades.  There's always the unsaid presumption that 'well at least the guys before Trump meant well'.  Trump should be criticized for this but we shouldn't ignore the historical context here. 

Some of us have been posting in the Yemen thread about this stuff for years.  Is Trump's handling of Khashoggi worse than Obama personally greenlighting a policy that made us complicit in the deaths of 85,000 Yemeni children?  Is it really that different from John McCain's grotesque cheerleading for Saudi Arabia, routinely voting against blocking weapons sales, accepting $1M human rights bucks from Saudi Arabia to his foundation, as this board mourned his loss like little schoolgirls?  I guess we should condemn US oligarchs like Bezos and Zuckerberg for parading MBS around on his US world tour, or Thomas Friedman and David Ignatius for using their editorial pages to wipe the Saudi regime's ###?  

Bush, Obama, Trump, I really look at them all the same way.  The only real anomaly here, other than lending credibility to MBS' bogus excuses, is that Trump stated obvious facts- that the US is the deeply entrenched partner of a brutal, repressive, murderous regime, and has been for decades- rather than the usual human rights concern trolling.  

 
This is cheap gr00vus.  First of all, to pretend that this is just a Trump thing, as opposed to a long line of US presidents demonstrating complete fealty to Saudi Arabia is rewriting history.  People acting all surprised by this as if it hasn't been standard US policy for decades.  There's always the unsaid presumption that 'well at least the guys before Trump meant well'.  Trump should be criticized for this but we shouldn't ignore the historical context here. 

Some of us have been posting in the Yemen thread about this stuff for years.  Is Trump's handling of Khashoggi worse than Obama personally greenlighting a policy that made us complicit in the deaths of 85,000 Yemeni children?  Is it really that different from John McCain's grotesque cheerleading for Saudi Arabia, routinely voting against blocking weapons sales, accepting $1M human rights bucks from Saudi Arabia to his foundation, as this board mourned his loss like little schoolgirls?  I guess we should condemn US oligarchs like Bezos and Zuckerberg for parading MBS around on his US world tour, or Thomas Friedman and David Ignatius for using their editorial pages to wipe the Saudi regime's ###?  

Bush, Obama, Trump, I really look at them all the same way.  The only real anomaly here, other than lending credibility to MBS' bogus excuses, is that Trump stated obvious facts- that the US is the deeply entrenched partner of a brutal, repressive, murderous regime, and has been for decades- rather than the usual human rights concern trolling.  
Yes, it is. Because Khasoggi is an American journalist, and because he was killed due to his work as a journalist, which has massive ramifications for free speech and the security of Americans abroad. Because Trump is willfully lying to his own people about what happened, undermining the work of his own intelligence service. Because Trump has a personal financial stake in Saudi Arabia that other politicians do not and that further calls into question his judgment on this matter. And for lots of other reasons.

That doesn't mean I approve of how other politicians have dealt with Saudi Arabia. I don't. But acting like this is just more of the same is completely absurd.

 
This is cheap gr00vus.  First of all, to pretend that this is just a Trump thing, as opposed to a long line of US presidents demonstrating complete fealty to Saudi Arabia is rewriting history.  People acting all surprised by this as if it hasn't been standard US policy for decades.  There's always the unsaid presumption that 'well at least the guys before Trump meant well'.  Trump should be criticized for this but we shouldn't ignore the historical context here. 

Some of us have been posting in the Yemen thread about this stuff for years.  Is Trump's handling of Khashoggi worse than Obama personally greenlighting a policy that made us complicit in the deaths of 85,000 Yemeni children?  Is it really that different from John McCain's grotesque cheerleading for Saudi Arabia, routinely voting against blocking weapons sales, accepting $1M human rights bucks from Saudi Arabia to his foundation, as this board mourned his loss like little schoolgirls?  I guess we should condemn US oligarchs like Bezos and Zuckerberg for parading MBS around on his US world tour, or Thomas Friedman and David Ignatius for using their editorial pages to wipe the Saudi regime's ###?  

Bush, Obama, Trump, I really look at them all the same way.  The only real anomaly here, other than lending credibility to MBS' bogus excuses, is that Trump stated obvious facts- that the US is the deeply entrenched partner of a brutal, repressive, murderous regime, and has been for decades- rather than the usual human rights concern trolling.  
Great, I look forward to you doing that.

 
By the way, our other special partner murdered Palestinian journalist Yaser Murtaja in cold blood.  Just shot him in broad daylight.  But he didn't work for the Post or have US citizenship, so nobody cared.  

 
This is cheap gr00vus.  First of all, to pretend that this is just a Trump thing, as opposed to a long line of US presidents demonstrating complete fealty to Saudi Arabia is rewriting history.  People acting all surprised by this as if it hasn't been standard US policy for decades.  There's always the unsaid presumption that 'well at least the guys before Trump meant well'.  Trump should be criticized for this but we shouldn't ignore the historical context here. 

Some of us have been posting in the Yemen thread about this stuff for years.  Is Trump's handling of Khashoggi worse than Obama personally greenlighting a policy that made us complicit in the deaths of 85,000 Yemeni children?  Is it really that different from John McCain's grotesque cheerleading for Saudi Arabia, routinely voting against blocking weapons sales, accepting $1M human rights bucks from Saudi Arabia to his foundation, as this board mourned his loss like little schoolgirls?  I guess we should condemn US oligarchs like Bezos and Zuckerberg for parading MBS around on his US world tour, or Thomas Friedman and David Ignatius for using their editorial pages to wipe the Saudi regime's ###?  

Bush, Obama, Trump, I really look at them all the same way.  The only real anomaly here, other than lending credibility to MBS' bogus excuses, is that Trump stated obvious facts- that the US is the deeply entrenched partner of a brutal, repressive, murderous regime, and has been for decades- rather than the usual human rights concern trolling.  
This is a very interesting argument and I've given it a lot of consideration over the past 24 hours, even before you stated it. It is absolutely true that several of our previous Presidents and leaders have quietly, or sometimes not so quietly, allowed some of our allies to commit terrible crimes.  The list is long: Pinochet in Chile, Diem in South Vietnam, Marcos in the Philippines, the Shah in Iran, I could go on and on. There has been tons of hypocrisy in our past, and one could argue (as I'm guessing you do) that we have never been the moral beacon of the world that we pretend to be.

Accepting this line of thinking, the only significant difference with Donald Trump yesterday is that he chose to be explicit in his realpolitik and not pay lip service to the moral idealism that we supposedly represent. But see, I think that lip service is very important. Unlike you, I don't see it as a sham; instead I see it as a goal that we as a nation constantly strive to reach for, even though we often fail.  It is the attempt to reach for a system of international morality that makes us noble. When we give up the attempt, we become unexceptional as a nation.  And that's unacceptable to me. 

 
By the way, our other special partner murdered Palestinian journalist Yaser Murtaja in cold blood.  Just shot him in broad daylight.  But he didn't work for the Post or have US citizenship, so nobody cared.  
This would have a lot more weight if you'd brought it up when it happened in April and expressed outrage at the time instead of just pulling it out now in an attempt to deflect from Khashoggi.

Also this wasn't even an intentional, targeted murder. All killings are tragic of course, but there is an enormous difference between an intentional murder and an accidental or even a reckless killing. Our legal system acknowledges this, as does literally every human being I've met in my life other than you.

 
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By the way, our other special partner murdered Palestinian journalist Yaser Murtaja in cold blood.  Just shot him in broad daylight.  But he didn't work for the Post or have US citizenship, so nobody cared.  
That situation should be investigated, and if it turns out he was murdered, there ought to be repercussions.

There are some key differences: Mertaja wasn't tortured. In fact, I have a feeling that he was shot down by an overly aggressive Israeli soldier, and there is a cover up. Just suspicion on my part. But the key difference was that, to the best of our knowledge, he was not assassinated by the direct order of Benjamin Netanyahu. If he had been, we would have a huge problem with Israel, as we should have with Saudi Arabia. 

 

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