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Blacks Support Trump

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2 hours ago, lazyike said:

I disagree. Farmers are going to vote for Trump and he has been the worst President for their pocketbooks in our nation's history

The power of the letter behind his name (and the decades of propaganda that has imbued such power)

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7 hours ago, timschochet said:

No, it isn’t. 

Most disagreements are OK. But some aren’t. If Kyrie Irving insists that the Earth is flat, that’s not an OK disagreement. If somebody tries to tell me that the Holocaust never happened, that’s not simply “another point of view” that we should respect. And when you disparage math because you did not understand what happened in 2016, it’s not OK. Your “opinion” on this is wrong, objectively. 

Here is where I disagree with you and most on this board. If Kyrie Irving wants to believe the Earth is flat, it IS OK to say we agree to disagree.  Who am I to try to change that person's mind.  It isn't your right, it isn't up to you.  Leave it alone.  I mean I can certainly say I think Kyrie is wrong, but that's where it ends. I'm not going to change his mind, nor is it my job to do so.  

My opinion is as valid as yours because I believe polls are generally crap. I know you believe in them, as you quote them constantly, but they are something I generally pay little attention to.  

So yeah.  I agree to disagree

Edited by supermike80

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7 hours ago, Zow said:

In other words, math is dumb. Awesome. 

Such a shame that your vote also counts as much at Nozick’s....

Yeah math is dumb...that what I said.  

Anyway, my point is polls can be manipulated..the questions asked, how they are asked etc etc.  You guys continually pick on some sources of polling, because it doesn't fit your objectives or your political biases.  And there are others, from the other side that will argue that the polling sites you like are bunk.   I can't believe you guys won't admit this.

Yes, the Hillary loss was within the margins..But you ALL know the polling methods across the country were called into question over that miss.  

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7 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Here is where I disagree with you and most on this board. If Kyrie Irving wants to believe the Earth is flat, it IS OK to say we agree to disagree.  Who am I to try to change that person's mind.  It isn't your right, it isn't up to you.  Leave it alone.  I mean I can certainly say I think Kyrie is wrong, but that's where it ends. I'm not going to change his mind, nor is it my job to do so.  

My opinion is as valid as yours because I believe polls are generally crap. I know you believe in them, as you quote them constantly, but they are something I generally pay little attention to.  

So yeah.  We agree to disagree

You really shouldn't put words in tim's mouth that way, because he does not, and has stated he does not agree to disagree.

Obviously if you want to keep your, IMHO, erroneous beliefs that are not supported by science, perhaps that other message board is better suited for you?

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3 minutes ago, msommer said:

You really shouldn't put words in tim's mouth that way, because he does not, and has stated he does not agree to disagree.

Obviously if you want to keep your, IMHO, erroneous beliefs that are not supported by science, perhaps that other message board is better suited for you?

I said I am saying we agree to disagree--my words.  I am aware he doesn't feel the same way.  

Edited by supermike80

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6 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

I said I am saying we agree to disagree--my words.  I am aware he doesn't feel the same way.  

Then you should avoid using words that indicate that more than one person agrees - such as "we"

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Just now, msommer said:

Then you should avoid using words that indicate that more than one person agrees - such as "we"

There you go again...I don't need advice from you.   I try to focus on myself.  Not try to change others.

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3 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

There you go again...I don't need advice from you.   I try to focus on myself.  Not try to change others.

Words mean stuff. Shared meaning is important in communication. If you don't want communication, why are you here?

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4 minutes ago, msommer said:

Words mean stuff. Shared meaning is important in communication. If you don't want communication, why are you here?

I can communicate without having to correct people. 

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9 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

I can communicate without having to correct people. 

When you state "we agree to disagree" instead of (I surmise) "I disagree but won't discuss further", you eschew basic communication principles in conveying shared meaning. T'hat is not a solid base on which to have a conversation.

 

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9 minutes ago, msommer said:

When you state "we agree to disagree" instead of (I surmise) "I disagree but won't discuss further", you eschew basic communication principles in conveying shared meaning. T'hat is not a solid base on which to have a conversation.

 

My point, as many know when that phrase is used, is that further communication on that subject will fail to make any reasonable progress. 

However, since this seems important to you, and if I have somehow hurt your feelings or angered you in some way, I have changed the post to say

"I agree to disagree".

I am very very sorry if I have upset you. 

Edited by supermike80

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5 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

My point, as many know when that phrase is used, is that further communication on that subject will fail to make any reasonable progress. 

However, since this seems important to you, and if I have somehow hurt your feelings or angered you in some way, I have changed the post to say

"I agree to disagree".

I am very very sorry if I have upset you. 

Enjoy the rest of your day, and communicate (with shared meaning)!

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All opinions are not equally valid. I hope this doesn't hurt the feelings of those with poorly informed opinions.

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2 hours ago, supermike80 said:

Here is where I disagree with you and most on this board. If Kyrie Irving wants to believe the Earth is flat, it IS OK to say we agree to disagree.  Who am I to try to change that person's mind.  It isn't your right, it isn't up to you.  Leave it alone.  I mean I can certainly say I think Kyrie is wrong, but that's where it ends. I'm not going to change his mind, nor is it my job to do so.  

My opinion is as valid as yours because I believe polls are generally crap. I know you believe in them, as you quote them constantly, but they are something I generally pay little attention to.  

So yeah.  I agree to disagree

Your opinion is essentially that 2 + 2 = 5.  

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some people are interested in discovering whether their beliefs are true (intellectual curiosity), some are not.

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On 10/22/2019 at 9:01 PM, Workhorse said:

Or maybe, you know, talk to some actual black people once in a while. I live in Atlanta and have black family members. Trust me, they largely despise Trump.

The ol I have a black friend anecdote.

Well guess what, I have black friends too and many of them support Trump. Trust me, they largely despise many white Democrats.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=RXm4kYX-aeU

(Trump at an HBCU event, 47:30 they chant 4 more years)

 

Edited by Raylan

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21 minutes ago, Raylan said:

Black males 34-49 support for Trump grows to 42%

50-64 is at 41%

18-34 is at 29%

Despite what our white liberal friends keep saying, Trump's support among blacks continues to rise.

 

16 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

I think that 42% might be all males.  Can you find the actual poll?  I've having trouble.

An overwhelming majority of black voters - 85 percent - said in a new Hill-HarrisX poll that they would choose any Democratic presidential candidate over President Trump.

The survey, which was released on Monday, found this sentiment to be particularly true among black voters along partisan lines.

Ninety-eight percent of black voters who identify as Democrat, and 72 percent of those who identify as independent said they would back whoever ultimately becomes the Democratic nominee over Trump. Just 12 percent of black voters who identify as Republican said the same. 

https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/464680-poll-overwhelming-majority-of-black-voters-choose-any-given-2020-democrat-over?amp&__twitter_impression=true

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On 10/24/2019 at 8:41 AM, roadkill1292 said:

All opinions are not equally valid. I hope this doesn't hurt the feelings of those with poorly informed opinions.

I think I've posted something similar to this about a dozen times the last 3 years.

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On 10/24/2019 at 6:21 AM, supermike80 said:

Here is where I disagree with you and most on this board. If Kyrie Irving wants to believe the Earth is flat, it IS OK to say we agree to disagree.  Who am I to try to change that person's mind.  It isn't your right, it isn't up to you.  Leave it alone.  I mean I can certainly say I think Kyrie is wrong, but that's where it ends. I'm not going to change his mind, nor is it my job to do so.  

My opinion is as valid as yours because I believe polls are generally crap. I know you believe in them, as you quote them constantly, but they are something I generally pay little attention to.  

So yeah.  I agree to disagree

What if Irving were to be appointed to chair the FAA.  And adjusted policies to avoid the disaster of flying beyond the face of the earth, and in doing so, endangered the lives of all those folks who fly in/around the real, round earth?

While an extreme example, it's a pretty clear black & white example that facts and objective reality can and do matter.

In this case, you can believe that polls are crap.  That said, if there were a series of say 50 polls (state by state), and utilizing statistically accepted methods, each of those 50 were within a margin of error - heck, if 45 were - I'd say it would not be an opinion whether or not those polls were accurate.  Saying it is an opinion is akin to saying smoking doesn't cause cancer.  It does. It's a fact.  Calling it an opinion doesn't change that, well, fact.

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2 minutes ago, Mile High said:

 

An overwhelming majority of black voters - 85 percent - said in a new Hill-HarrisX poll that they would choose any Democratic presidential candidate over President Trump.

The survey, which was released on Monday, found this sentiment to be particularly true among black voters along partisan lines.

Ninety-eight percent of black voters who identify as Democrat, and 72 percent of those who identify as independent said they would back whoever ultimately becomes the Democratic nominee over Trump. Just 12 percent of black voters who identify as Republican said the same. 

https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/464680-poll-overwhelming-majority-of-black-voters-choose-any-given-2020-democrat-over?amp&__twitter_impression=true

Can't believe that Text Trump had misleading and incorrect numbers.

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5 minutes ago, Mile High said:

 

An overwhelming majority of black voters - 85 percent - said in a new Hill-HarrisX poll that they would choose any Democratic presidential candidate over President Trump.

The survey, which was released on Monday, found this sentiment to be particularly true among black voters along partisan lines.

Ninety-eight percent of black voters who identify as Democrat, and 72 percent of those who identify as independent said they would back whoever ultimately becomes the Democratic nominee over Trump. Just 12 percent of black voters who identify as Republican said the same. 

https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/464680-poll-overwhelming-majority-of-black-voters-choose-any-given-2020-democrat-over?amp&__twitter_impression=true

Yeah, I was just found that. 

The question is: 

Q2b: Between any Democratic nominee and Donald Trump, who would you prefer to be elected President in the 2020 election?

The sample sizes are extremely small.  They sampled 23 black males in the 34-49 age group.  Just 12 in the 50-64.  I wouldn't make any sweeping generalizations from this polling.

 

Edited by Juxtatarot

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On 10/24/2019 at 6:28 AM, supermike80 said:

Yeah math is dumb...that what I said.  

Anyway, my point is polls can be manipulated..the questions asked, how they are asked etc etc.  You guys continually pick on some sources of polling, because it doesn't fit your objectives or your political biases.  And there are others, from the other side that will argue that the polling sites you like are bunk.   I can't believe you guys won't admit this.

Yes, the Hillary loss was within the margins..But you ALL know the polling methods across the country were called into question over that miss.  

Um, they were? I didn't know that.

Anyone know if the major and most accurate/respected polls called into question (and if they discovered then that the questioning was warranted, changed their methodology?). 

My understanding has always been he polls did what they should, within a margin of error.  When you roll a six sided die, and say that there is a greater than 85% likelihood that it won't come up as the "1" and it comes up as the "1" you don't question your methodology.  Now, it if comes up "1" 50% of the time over an extended number of examples, sure. 

To my knowledge, that is not at all what happened here, and to suggest as such would not be based in fact.

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5 minutes ago, Sheriff Bart said:

Can't believe that Text Trump had misleading and incorrect numbers.

His 42% number was from 23 people?

Edited by joffer
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6 minutes ago, Raylan said:

I hope the left continues to live in their bubble thinking all blacks hate Trump.

Same with Hispanics, women, and Democrats.

https://youtu.be/WJHTeLp-qTU

This is what is happening outside the echo chamber.

I'm not a dem.  I live in Texas. Almost everyone at my place of work is Republican, and most pro-Trump and aligned quite on the right. So not sure why you suggest it has to be the "echo chamber"

I don't know one African American person who likes Trump.

I do know some Hispanic and to a lesser extend Latino (self described) that do, though a greater percentage down here in Texas than back home on Long Island - and even then, it's a pretty small percentage of people I know.  It would be curious where the Cuban population stood, as they often align Republican.

 

Edited by Koya

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16 minutes ago, Raylan said:

 

This is what is happening outside the echo chamber.

A Trump rally is pretty much an echo chamber. 

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On 10/24/2019 at 6:40 AM, msommer said:

Then you should avoid using words that indicate that more than one person agrees - such as "we"

Cliche

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#blaxit. 

Candace Owens is doing some heavy lifting for trump.

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1 hour ago, Koya said:

What if Irving were to be appointed to chair the FAA.  And adjusted policies to avoid the disaster of flying beyond the face of the earth, and in doing so, endangered the lives of all those folks who fly in/around the real, round earth?

While an extreme example, it's a pretty clear black & white example that facts and objective reality can and do matter.

In this case, you can believe that polls are crap.  That said, if there were a series of say 50 polls (state by state), and utilizing statistically accepted methods, each of those 50 were within a margin of error - heck, if 45 were - I'd say it would not be an opinion whether or not those polls were accurate.  Saying it is an opinion is akin to saying smoking doesn't cause cancer.  It does. It's a fact.  Calling it an opinion doesn't change that, well, fact.

Didn't realize the Chair of the FAA had that power and then the issue wouldn't be with his views but rather with the people who would appoint him to Chair the FAA knowing he was not qualified for the position.  Then the issue would be all the other committees, industry leaders, and international groups going along with it.  Seems like a bad example.

Polls are only as good as the methodology they use and back end analysis and tweaking they do.   That's why you immediately start qualifying your statement.  Population, Response Bias, and a lot of factors influence them.  Even well structured polls can be way off....probably why they are called Opinion Polls.  On FiveThirtyEight a site A- site missed on 80% of the races it polled on.

So your mileage may vary but if you are looking at polls I would suggest sites like FiveThirtyEight to get the average of all polls on a particular race to get the best input. The link is to their rating page.

So i can easily see the view of not liking and thinking polls are junk.  It is in fact no where close to the out their example given.

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1 hour ago, Raylan said:

I hope the left continues to live in their bubble thinking all blacks hate Trump.

Same with Hispanics, women, and Democrats.

https://youtu.be/WJHTeLp-qTU

This is what is happening outside the echo chamber.

Isn't that a Trump rally?

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10 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Isn't that a Trump rally?

Turns out that it was from outside the echo chamber, looking into it, hence the camera angle.

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1 hour ago, Raylan said:

I hope the left continues to live in their bubble thinking all blacks hate Trump.

Same with Hispanics, women, and Democrats.

https://youtu.be/WJHTeLp-qTU

This is what is happening outside the echo chamber.

That  was the intro at a Trump rally, I think I noticed one black guy in the crowd behind Trump

What was that video supposed to show us?

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4 hours ago, Koya said:
On 10/24/2019 at 4:28 AM, supermike80 said:

Yes, the Hillary loss was within the margins..But you ALL know the polling methods across the country were called into question over that miss.  

Um, they were? I didn't know that.

Anyone know if the major and most accurate/respected polls called into question (and if they discovered then that the questioning was warranted, changed their methodology?).

This study has a pretty good analysis of why the polls underestimated Trump's chances. But it's an exaggeration to say that polling methods "across the country" were called into question.

The study mostly debunks the theory of a "Shy Trump Voter" (i.e., someone who supported Trump but either pretended to favor Hillary when a pollster called them, or simply refused to respond). However, the study did conclude that college graduates were over-represented in many polls -- this likely skewed the polls towards Hillary in blue-collar states with smaller proportions of college graduates.

One of the main conclusions of the study is that 13% of voters in Wisconsin, Florida and Pennsylvania remained "undecided" until just days before the election -- and that bloc swung heavily towards Trump. It's difficult to create a methodology to account for that, since other states didn't have such a swing.

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6 hours ago, Raylan said:

The ol I have a black friend anecdote.

Well guess what, I have black friends too and many of them support Trump. Trust me, they largely despise many white Democrats.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=RXm4kYX-aeU

(Trump at an HBCU event, 47:30 they chant 4 more years)

 

Quote

More than 200 people attended President Donald Trump's speech at Benedict College, but only about 10 actual students were invited to the event -- his first appearance at a historically black college, and an effort to reach out beyond his usual base of support.

Columbia, South Carolina, Mayor Stephen Benjamin told CNN that out of the more than 200 invitees to the President's speech, only about 10 were actual students from the college. The others, Benjamin said, were "brought in" from somewhere else. More than 2,100 attend the school, according to its website.

Benedict College spokeswoman Kymm Hunter later told reporters that only seven students ultimately attended the speech.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/25/politics/donald-trump-hbcu-speech/index.html

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8 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:
Quote

The others, Benjamin said, were "brought in" from somewhere else

 

So they hire non-white actors or something so that they can pretend they have their support? 

 

Just more batcrap craziness. 

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6 hours ago, The Commish said:

Isn't that a Trump rally?

You can mock all you want.

Seeing a Trump rally in the blue state of New Mexico filled with women, Hispanics, and blacks would give me pause if I were a "Drumpf is a racist" type of guy.

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Just now, Raylan said:

You can mock all you want.

Seeing a Trump rally in the blue state of New Mexico filled with women, Hispanics, and blacks would give me pause if I were a "Drumpf is a racist" type of guy.

you know he pays people to show up to his rallies right?

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1 minute ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

you know he pays people to show up to his rallies right?

😅

Seriously, go to bed. You are embarrassing yourself.

And for the sake of the FBG PSF, provide a link that he pays people to show up to his rallies.

It pains you people to see women and minorities supporting Trump.

DEAL WITH IT.

(I honestly hope you people think he pays people to show up at his rallies, that means the slaughter in 2020 will be all the more painful for you)

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3 hours ago, Raylan said:

You can mock all you want.

Seeing a Trump rally in the blue state of New Mexico filled with women, Hispanics, and blacks would give me pause if I were a "Drumpf is a racist" type of guy.

Mock?  Not even close....this should be one of those things put in the save the PSF thread as an example of what not to do.  I was verifying what you posted because you were going on about an echo chamber and what's happening outside it etc.  I found it odd that you'd choose throwing the ultimate echo chamber of the right (A Trump rally) as evidence of being "outside the echo chamber" when it's the epitome of being smack dab in the middle of the echo chamber.  Doesn't get more rich in irony than that.

Edited by The Commish
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5 hours ago, Raylan said:

You can mock all you want.

Seeing a Trump rally in the blue state of New Mexico filled with women, Hispanics, and blacks would give me pause if I were a "Drumpf is a racist" type of guy.

We can just look at how he treats them, in this case. Underpaying the ones who work at his properties, calling them rapists and vermin in speeches, oh, and let's not forget that he's tearing kids from parents and putting them in camps, too. Sounds pretty racist to me.

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5 hours ago, Raylan said:

(I honestly hope you people think he pays people to show up at his rallies, that means the slaughter in 2020 will be all the more painful for you)

Do you feel that people showing up to his rallies is a better indicator of his popularity  than polls?

I've always found political rallies to be odd - I don’t think I would ever go to one.  

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14 hours ago, Koya said:

What if Irving were to be appointed to chair the FAA.  And adjusted policies to avoid the disaster of flying beyond the face of the earth, and in doing so, endangered the lives of all those folks who fly in/around the real, round earth?

While an extreme example, it's a pretty clear black & white example that facts and objective reality can and do matter.

In this case, you can believe that polls are crap.  That said, if there were a series of say 50 polls (state by state), and utilizing statistically accepted methods, each of those 50 were within a margin of error - heck, if 45 were - I'd say it would not be an opinion whether or not those polls were accurate.  Saying it is an opinion is akin to saying smoking doesn't cause cancer.  It does. It's a fact.  Calling it an opinion doesn't change that, well, fact.

There you go again. Determining what is and is not fact based on what you think.  You all discount the Rasmussen polls. Continually..unless of course it agrees with your thinking.  

So by definition,  polls are not fact.  

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1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

There you go again. Determining what is and is not fact based on what you think.  You all discount the Rasmussen polls. Continually..unless of course it agrees with your thinking.  

So by definition,  polls are not fact.  

The point of the discussion of Rasmussen is it should not be used as a stand alone poll as far as support.

At the same time...it can be telling when the right leaning outlier drops...it may be a sign of some trouble.

I don't think anyone is taking it as a sign all on its own...most have always said look at the aggregate of polling.

Polls are facts though...they are a statistical representation of the opinions of those polled...and with the proper methodology can be extracted to represent a larger picture.  If I say Americans feel a certain way on a topic, and link polling to support my position.  That is a fact to support my analysis.

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30 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

The point of the discussion of Rasmussen is it should not be used as a stand alone poll as far as support.

At the same time...it can be telling when the right leaning outlier drops...it may be a sign of some trouble.

I don't think anyone is taking it as a sign all on its own...most have always said look at the aggregate of polling.

Polls are facts though...they are a statistical representation of the opinions of those polled...and with the proper methodology can be extracted to represent a larger picture.  If I say Americans feel a certain way on a topic, and link polling to support my position.  That is a fact to support my analysis.

Yea. I believe polls actually ask people questions.  That's fact

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15 hours ago, Raylan said:

The ol I have a black friend anecdote.

Well guess what, I have black friends too and many of them support Trump. Trust me, they largely despise many white Democrats.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=RXm4kYX-aeU

(Trump at an HBCU event, 47:30 they chant 4 more years)

 

The event that he packed with supporters and staff.

And you think that your “I have black friends that despise white people” claim will sway people?

:lmao:

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I live in a majority minority community and don't know a single black person who supports trump. I've never even heard whispers of such a thing.

Edited by mrip541

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4 hours ago, supermike80 said:

There you go again. Determining what is and is not fact based on what you think.  You all discount the Rasmussen polls. Continually..unless of course it agrees with your thinking.  

So by definition,  polls are not fact.  

I didn’t say polls are fact. I suggested that the accuracy of the polls (in that they were indeed, accurate) was a fact.

And are you suggesting that I am saying Kyrie is simply wrong and that the earth IS round is ME determining what is fact or not?

Trump and his style and those who emulate it have created a dangerous precedent in our nation where suddenly folks suggest that facts have some relation to what people think. They don’t. They are FACTS.

As to Rasmussen, many have suggested why they use an antiquated system. Come on, you are smart enough to know that if you just call hard line phones that skews the population. If someone suggests otherwise I’d say they are being, at best, disingenuous. Doesn’t mean that poll holds no validity, but it certainly has major questions to its worth.

when just about if not all major polls got the election within a margin of error, factually, they were accurate in their prognostication. Doesn’t mean they are always factual or without fault or can’t be questioned. But the FACT that they were within their own margins and if you watched the trends could extrapolate the outcome that occurred shows they were on point to a large degree.
 

Id also appreciate a less accusatory tone than “there you go again” followed by accusing me of distorting fact to what I think. My whole point is actual facts can’t be distorted. Interpretations and conclusions and opinions are for that. 
 

Like I said, doesn’t matter “what I think” or why “Kyrie thinks” - the earth is round.  And the polls were accurate within the margin of error. Just because the Dems and those left of center ran with an 85% likelihood of winning as if it were 100% assured l, doesn’t mean the polls were wrong. 
 

And I’m not sure what you think I think, but it seems a dangerous game to play, as so many seem to guess wrong, at least in my personal experience being a libertarian/independent who only voted for Obama once, and had been perhaps the longest lasting critic of Hillary, long before she ran for President. 

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On 10/24/2019 at 6:28 AM, supermike80 said:

Yeah math is dumb...that what I said.  

Anyway, my point is polls can be manipulated..the questions asked, how they are asked etc etc.  You guys continually pick on some sources of polling, because it doesn't fit your objectives or your political biases.  And there are others, from the other side that will argue that the polling sites you like are bunk.   I can't believe you guys won't admit this.

Yes, the Hillary loss was within the margins..But you ALL know the polling methods across the country were called into question over that miss.  

Have you ever been involved in polling? I have. 
 

What you suggest here in terms of how the question is asked is not a straight up poll. It’s called a push poll.  That is where you manipulate answers based on how you phrase the questions.

Oh, and convenient that you talk about this and yet bring up Rasmussen which, by any logical strain, uses an antiquated method that, by definition, reaches only a certain segment of the population (or rather over represents some and under represents the other). This feels like taking out of both sides of your mouth in all fairness. 
 

Thst said, perhaps it would be fruitful to look into polling definitions and methodologies as asking who you will vote for is not manipulating an answer. That, again, is called a push poll

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8 hours ago, AAABatteries said:

Do you feel that people showing up to his rallies is a better indicator of his popularity  than polls?

I've always found political rallies to be odd - I don’t think I would ever go to one.  

I went to a Bush rally when I was in college. At that time I was both socially and fiscally conservative. It was still uncomfortable and, surprising to me, to be rather juvenile. Felt like a pep rally where the rival school was really disliked. 

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