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fatguyinalittlecoat

What will current Trump supporters think about him in 20 years?

What will current Trump supporters think about him in 20 years?  

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1 minute ago, Dedfin said:

Sure, just use Italy and Mussolini.

It's much closer in terms of attitude.

But it still doesn't work.  Trump is not a dictator/murderer.  Sure he might want to be. But he isn't one.

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3 minutes ago, timschochet said:

As much as I despise Trump, this is an awful awful analogy.

I agree, not a fan of Hitler comparisons.  Think a more apt comparison is something like, how many people openly supported Nixon in the mid-90s?  20 years from now, Trump will be viewed as a disgraced failure and most of his current supporters will have retconned themselves to avoid being associated with him.  

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

It's much closer in terms of attitude.

But it still doesn't work.  Trump is not a dictator/murderer.  Sure he might want to be. But he isn't one.

It works like a mofo

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35 minutes ago, Ignoratio Elenchi said:

When the history books are written, Trump will be portrayed as the human pile of garbage he is, so there won't be a lot of public sentiment in his favor.  Privately people might still have a positive opinion of him, but no one will admit it and everyone will pretend they didn't vote for him. :shrug: 

The people who will look back fondly at 2016-2018 as the “good old days” won’t care what’s in the history books. And there will be a lot of them.

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1 minute ago, pecorino said:

The people who will look back fondly at 2016-2018 as the “good old days” won’t care what’s in the history books. And there will be a lot of them.

Most of those people will be dead, and the rest of the remaining minority will be shamed into silence by public sentiment.  I don't even think this is really that controversial.  Throughout history, bad people have occasionally risen to power with a lot of support.  And then a generation later, when things have righted themselves and history is written, somehow magically no one knows anyone who ever supported them.  Seems fairly straightforward that the same pattern is playing out here. 

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Yeah, I'm skeptical that any book is going to change their minds.  We've already got a few insider books that make evident what a trainwreck this administration is and they appear not to have made any difference.

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Just now, Ignoratio Elenchi said:

 

Most of those people will be dead, and the rest of the remaining minority will be shamed into silence by public sentiment.  I don't even think this is really that controversial.  Throughout history, bad people have occasionally risen to power with a lot of support.  And then a generation later, when things have righted themselves and history is written, somehow magically no one knows anyone who ever supported them.  Seems fairly straightforward that the same pattern is playing out here. 

I'm not sure that history is all that great a guide though.  Fox News only started in the 90s or something.  

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1 minute ago, JuniorNB said:

Bull. Hitler didn't take office and suddenly start killing people. He first gained control of the media.  Then made his followers distrust any one who disagreed with his policies. Or talked negatively of him. (Hint: CNN, FBI, CIA...)

Trump is now globally sending the message to dictators that he has no problem with regimes who kill opponents of their policies or dare to criticize them in the media. (Russia poisoning the guy and his daughter. Saudi Arabia killing and chopping up the Washington Post reporter). 

He is following the evil dictator playbook to a T.   Do you honestly think Trump would care if one of his followers killed Chris Cuomo or Don Lemon?  He absolutely wouldn't.  You can't over magnify the man's evilness.

This is completely wrong. Let's take it sentence by sentence.

Hitler didn't take office and suddenly start killing people.

Yes he did. The executions began almost immediately, while there was still, at least partially, a free media.

He first gained control of the media. 

False. The largest "free" newspapers in Germany didn't shut down until 1934. By then, Hitler was in firm control of the country. Before shutting down the media, he passed the Enabling Act and made all political parties outside of the Nazis illegal. This all happened with a free press.

Then made his followers distrust any one who disagreed with his policies.

This happened following the Enabling Act, after the Reichstag Fire, within 3 months of Hitler taking office. 

 Or talked negatively of him. (Hint: CNN, FBI, CIA...)

Hitler didn't waste his time publicly whining about government agencies. He simply had his thugs take them over. 

He is following the evil dictator playbook to a T.  

No he isn't, and this is my entire point.  Evil dictators don't spend time trying to subvert their own governments by increasing public distrust. They simply move about to take over.  They don't appoint judges to the Supreme Court; they remove the court.  They don't spend time campaigning in elections; they get rid of elections.  Donald Trump is a lot of things, but he is not an evil dictator, he is not a mass murderer, he not bent on world conquest. He is not Adolf Hitler.  Sorry but this is foolishness.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Yeah, I'm skeptical that any book is going to change their minds.  We've already got a few insider books that make evident what a trainwreck this administration is and they appear not to have made any difference.

We already know the Trumpers don't care about books, that's not the point.  Trump's legacy will be one of failure, that's what will be taught to a generation of schoolchildren.  And it's human nature not to want to associate with losers.  As I noted earlier, I'm not suggesting that everyone will actually change their opinion (though many will), just that very few will still openly embrace the stigma of being a Trump supporter 20 years from now.

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9 minutes ago, timschochet said:

This is completely wrong. Let's take it sentence by sentence.

Hitler didn't take office and suddenly start killing people.

Yes he did. The executions began almost immediately, while there was still, at least partially, a free media.

He first gained control of the media. 

False. The largest "free" newspapers in Germany didn't shut down until 1934. By then, Hitler was in firm control of the country. Before shutting down the media, he passed the Enabling Act and made all political parties outside of the Nazis illegal. This all happened with a free press.

Then made his followers distrust any one who disagreed with his policies.

This happened following the Enabling Act, after the Reichstag Fire, within 3 months of Hitler taking office. 

 Or talked negatively of him. (Hint: CNN, FBI, CIA...)

Hitler didn't waste his time publicly whining about government agencies. He simply had his thugs take them over. 

He is following the evil dictator playbook to a T.  

No he isn't, and this is my entire point.  Evil dictators don't spend time trying to subvert their own governments by increasing public distrust. They simply move about to take over.  They don't appoint judges to the Supreme Court; they remove the court.  They don't spend time campaigning in elections; they get rid of elections.  Donald Trump is a lot of things, but he is not an evil dictator, he is not a mass murderer, he not bent on world conquest. He is not Adolf Hitler.  Sorry but this is foolishness.

 

 

Trump had no ability to take office and 'move to take over'. That's not how our country and constitution are set up. He knows he has to do it through public distrust.  Hate and fear.  An 'us against them' mindset.  And he's succeeding. He actually has all of his supporters being totally ok with trhe fact that there are currently 300 children in cages. Because he has his base thinking they are all future M13 members who will eventually try to rape white women. He's taking the Saudi Prince's side of the story in what was an obvious murder of a reporter who dared report negatively. Has one of your gung-ho Trump Facebook friends spoken out against Trump about this? Of course they haven't.  You're right about one thing, Trump hasn't killed someone. But he's totally fine with other dictators doing it. And if one of his supporters ends up doing it, he's going to be A-OK with that, too.   The only thing keeping Trump from being a murderous dictator are the confines of our country's laws.

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20 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Yeah, I'm skeptical that any book is going to change their minds.  We've already got a few insider books that make evident what a trainwreck this administration is and they appear not to have made any difference.

Which reminds me to post this Atlantic piece by David Frum taking apart Woodward's book on Trump. He thinks that Woodward missed the largest part of the Trump story because of the way he (Woodward) went about sourcing his book.

Quote

After Flynn’s exit, the book repeatedly relays the perspectives of six other men: Steve Bannon (Trump’s former chief political strategist), Gary Cohn (the former chief White House economic adviser), John Dowd (the president’s former lawyer), Senator Lindsey Graham, Rob Porter (the former staff secretary), and Reince Priebus (the former chief of staff). Their internal battles provide the drama of Fear; the story is told from their points of view. The result is a weirdly lopsided book. Trump is leading the most unethical White House and most corrupt administration in modern U.S. history, arguably in all of U.S. history. But that does not rate attention from Woodward, perhaps because those scandals do not perturb his sources. Woodward’s sources care about Trump’s chaos and disorder—and so that becomes the gravamen of Woodward’s critique.

Bottom line -- it's almost always worse than can be captured by any one person in any one book. The categorizing of Donald's misdeeds are gonna require a series like Churchill's histories of Europe.

Edited by roadkill1292

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9 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

Which reminds me to post this Atlantic piece by David Frum taking apart Woodward's book on Trump. He thinks that Woodward missed the largest part of the Trump story because of the way he (Woodward) went about sourcing his book.

Bottom line -- it's almost always worse than can be captured by any one person in any one book. The categorizing of Donald's misdeeds are gonna require a series like Churchill's histories of Europe.

I'm just wondering what the tipping point will be. At what point will the cowardly Republican Senators and Congressmen decide to grow a spine and distance themselves from him.  Decide enough is enough and stop defending his morally corrupt ways. You mean not one guy has the balls to stand up and call him out for calling his ex-mistress a horseface?  To point out the obvious financial reasons that Trump can't say anything negative about Russia or Saudi Arabia?  Maybe once the Mueller investigation comes out and the extremity of Trump's tax evasion, money laundering, and dealings with Russia are revealed?  I have no idea what it's going to take. Being that none of them have had a moment or morality to this point. 

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4 hours ago, timschochet said:

Not good examples. 

There is only one figure in the entire history of American politics that compares to Trump, and it’s only a partial comparison. That is Senator Joe McCarthy. 

Though there were exceptions, if you took a poll of conservatives 35 years after McCarthy’s heyday (which would be around 1989) most of them would have shrugged it off and tried to pretend that McCarthy never existed. They had long since moved on to other heroes like Reagan. 

There are different aspects. Long and Edwards were crooks and even after being exposed as such, especially Edwards, they still had supporters. Edwards even got into the runoff as the Dem candidate for Congress in the district upriver here in the last cycle.

As for McCarthy, I don't think the Republican love for him was that deep. The guy had 15 minutes. A disgusting fascistic 15 minutes but still that. Trump is much bigger than McCarthy ever was.

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10 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

As for McCarthy, I don't think the Republican love for him was that deep. The guy had 15 minutes. A disgusting fascistic 15 minutes but still that. Trump is much bigger than McCarthy ever was.

McCarthy is the spiritual grandfather of the flag-waving "love it or leave it" crowd.

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8 hours ago, Don't Noonan said:

The delusion is strong in this thread

It is comical to see the weekly Trump hysteria threads and surveys.

They really have no clue what is happening outside of this little echo chamber of hate (check the threads on the front page, 90% of them are negative or conspiracy)

Trump support is as high as Obama's at the same point in his first term, support among his own party is at record highs, as is African American support.

Every time they (the media, Dem politicians) call someone a racist or rapist for disagreeing with them it only makes them come across as more deranged to the average American.

Just last week CNN called one of the most successful blacks in this country a negro who can't read (because he dared to think for himself) and most on the left cheered that kind of blatant racism and hypocrisy.

A better thread/question would be when do you accept reality? After the Republicans keep the Senate and likely the house? After Mueller says no collusion, no obstruction? After Trump wins in 2020 riding the wave a strong economy and record support from minorities and educated women? After the Supreme Court is stacked with 4-6 Trump picks? 

 

To answer the OP, Trump will go down as the greatest president of our lifetimes. Most people here we'll lie to their grandkids and say they were on the Trump train on 2018. 

 

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2 minutes ago, NFL2DF said:

Trump support is as high as Obama's at the same point in his first term, support among his own party is at record highs, as is African American support.

:lol: @ trying to compare Trump's approval rating to Obama's rating during the recession. Get that weak stuff outta here! LOL

Also, you're wrong.

Average Obama approval in mid-October 2010 = 45.5%

Average Trump approval in mid-October 2018 = 44.1%

And that's WITH the Rasmussen poll artificially propping up Trump's approval rating!

Think about that for a moment. Obama during the worst economy in 80 years beat Trump during the best economy in 80 years.

And that was after the stock market had lost 45% of its value! Right now the stock market is still up 40% since the 2016 election and Trump still can't beat Obama's numbers! :lmao:

Oh yeah, one other thing. That poll which claimed that 36% of African-Americans support Trump? Guess who did that one? That's right -- Rasmussen! LOL No other poll has his AA support higher than 21%!

 

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54 minutes ago, NFL2DF said:

Trump will go down as the greatest president of our lifetimes. 

This is as comical and deranged as anything you might accuse his opponents of.  Trump's obviously going to go down as one of the worst of all time, the only thing that's uncertain at this point is whether he's merely "one of" the worst who is mostly forgotten about 100 years from now, or if he's one of those historically terrible leaders that ends up becoming a lesson to future generations.  But, hey, enjoy your brief moment in the sun I guess. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Ignoratio Elenchi said:

This is as comical and deranged as anything you might accuse his opponents of.  Trump's obviously going to go down as one of the worst of all time, the only thing that's uncertain at this point is whether he's merely "one of" the worst who is mostly forgotten about 100 years from now, or if he's one of those historically terrible leaders that ends up becoming a lesson to future generations.  But, hey, enjoy your brief moment in the sun I guess. 

 

 

Your post is great dude, but it would be great if you didn't quote him. Thanks ?

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3 minutes ago, Dedfin said:

Your post is great dude, but it would be great if you didn't quote him. Thanks ?

My mistake, won’t happen again. 

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7 minutes ago, Ignoratio Elenchi said:

  Trump's obviously going to go down as one of the worst of all time,

 

 

I don’t agree, for two reasons. First off, we’re only halfway through his Presidency-(hopefully). As I wrote earlier, I suspect the next two years may very well be about compromise with the Democrats, and deal making, which will change some people’s minds if it happens. 

More importantly: we’re not living in awful times, and this is the key to being considered either a terrible President or a great President. Let’s look at the 3 men generally considered our worst 3 Presidents: 

James Buchanan- secession of the South

Herbert Hoover- the Great Depression

Andrew Johnson- Reconstruction

And right behind them, Jimmy Carter, with double digit inflation and the Iran hostage crisis. The unifying factor here is: bad times. The bad times weren’t caused by any of the men I mentioned, but they didn’t react well, so they’re considered awful. When they do react well, (Lincoln, FDR) they’re considered great. We judge our Presidents on how they react to adversity. 

President Trump has had no major adversities to react to, and hopefully he won’t. All of his so-called crisises have been self inflicted for the most part. If this continues he will neither go down as awful nor great, but will be remembered as a mediocrity. 

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5 hours ago, timschochet said:

It's much closer in terms of attitude.

But it still doesn't work.  Trump is not a dictator/murderer.  Sure he might want to be. But he isn't one.

A certain formerly alive WaPo columnist would disagree with that conclusion.  He may not be pulling the trigger, but he’s not acting to stop murders either. 

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33 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I don’t agree, for two reasons. First off, we’re only halfway through his Presidency-(hopefully). As I wrote earlier, I suspect the next two years may very well be about compromise with the Democrats, and deal making, which will change some people’s minds if it happens. 

More importantly: we’re not living in awful times, and this is the key to being considered either a terrible President or a great President. Let’s look at the 3 men generally considered our worst 3 Presidents: 

James Buchanan- secession of the South

Herbert Hoover- the Great Depression

Andrew Johnson- Reconstruction

And right behind them, Jimmy Carter, with double digit inflation and the Iran hostage crisis. The unifying factor here is: bad times. The bad times weren’t caused by any of the men I mentioned, but they didn’t react well, so they’re considered awful. When they do react well, (Lincoln, FDR) they’re considered great. We judge our Presidents on how they react to adversity. 

President Trump has had no major adversities to react to, and hopefully he won’t. All of his so-called crisises have been self inflicted for the most part. If this continues he will neither go down as awful nor great, but will be remembered as a mediocrity. 

Yeah I remember when those guys called that chick horseface while coddling a dictator that just killed a journalist.

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as the greatest con man the human race has ever produced.

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11 hours ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

This is something I've been thinking about and I was inspired to start this thread by a non-Trump supporter telling a Trump fan in another thread "I wonder how you will react when you find out that you have been completely wrong about everything.  Probably never accept it, but you do you."

I'm really torn on this one.  Curious what others think.

 

In 20 years you won’t find anyone who will admit to voting for trump.

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

I don’t agree

Donald Trump was uniquely unqualified to be the President to begin with.  From the moment he was elected he was destined to be one of the worst Presidents of all time unless he vastly exceeded all expectations (there was no reason to believe he would, of course, and he obviously hasn't), just like if I line up under center for the Rams this weekend it's a foregone conclusion that I'd go down as one of the worst QBs in NFL history.  He's not like previous Presidents for whom there was at least a reasonable belief that they could do the job, even if ultimately they failed to respond in tough circumstances.  No one who was paying any attention to Trump at any point in the last 30 years ever thought he would be a good President, and to date he's basically done nothing to prove them wrong.

 

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There’s a huge gulf between “unqualified to do the job and so he was destined to not be a good president” versus “lacks any modicum of empathy, abuses power by taking advantage of conflicts of interest, obstructs justice, and is a horrible role model for our children.” He will undoubtedly go down as a bottom five president ever, time will bear this out, if not the worst. I find it incredible that anyone would claim or believe that he’ll be the greatest president of our lifetimes. 

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12 hours ago, TobiasFunke said:

My guess is something similar to what I think about going to Grateful Dead shows in the early '90s.  It was definitely a good time, met some great people, don't regret it at all, but in retrospect I see that the music itself maybe wasn't as great as I thought, especially since the ringleader was at that point way past his prime and frequently incoherent.

You shut your whore mouth.  

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Saw this title and thought I voted for Clinton in the 90s but really never think about him  Voted for GW but never think about him anymore. Voted for Obama but never think about him anymore. In fact I never think about any past POTUS. Did not vote last election as I could not pull the lever for either one.

I keep seeing "Supporters"   I have never really felt myself as a supporter or relate to any POTUS. The Federal stuff is so beyond what we can control. You vote and hope for the best.

I know many people in business that voted for Trump but really are not supporters.  Know many that voted for Obama and Bush but not really were supporters. Just did not like the other candidate.  People cast the vote and whoever wins is in office for 4-8 years.

People might support or not support things from any POTUS.   In 4 or 8 years of Trump if unemployment is still down and  people are working,  if the economy is good and we are not in any wars who knows what people will think.

Edited by Da Guru
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2 hours ago, bagger said:

In 20 years you won’t find anyone who will admit to voting for trump.

Yep.  Gonna be a lot of Trump amnesia going around 2 decades from now.  Especially from moderate Republicans who didn’t actively support him, but went along with it and turned a blind eye to the racism, incompetence, and authoritarianism.  

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11 minutes ago, tommyGunZ said:

Yep.  Gonna be a lot of Trump amnesia going around 2 decades from now.  Especially from moderate Republicans who didn’t actively support him, but went along with it and turned a blind eye to the racism, incompetence, and authoritarianism.  

* citation needed

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Legal types leaving his administration are already having trouble finding work with high profile firms. Post-presidency, Donald will be shunned by past presidents and the people who worked for him doomed to employment with the Heritage Foundation and Fox types. Maybe he'll redeem himself with some thoughtful and nuanced tweets about foreign and domestic policy, though. I dunno.

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Just now, roadkill1292 said:

Legal types leaving his administration are already having trouble finding work with high profile firms. Post-presidency, Donald will be shunned by past presidents and the people who worked for him doomed to employment with the Heritage Foundation and Fox types. 

These don’t seem like things that would change the minds of his supporters.

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1 minute ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

These don’t seem like things that would change the minds of his supporters.

No, I got off track a little there.

The question I have about his supporters is how will they react to future right wing candidates who don't have Don's verbosity and lack of graciousness. Will they be bored? 

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34 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

Trump may very well end up being the best President in my lifetime

Funniest, saddest, and most cringeworthy post I’ve seen on this board. 

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11 minutes ago, Mario Kart said:

Funniest, saddest, and most cringeworthy post I’ve seen on this board. 

Whoa, there's another post in here claiming that Donald will be the GOAT, not just in our lifetimes.

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31 minutes ago, Mario Kart said:

Funniest, saddest, and most cringeworthy post I’ve seen on this board. 

perhaps you shouldn't be so closeminded?  Just a thought

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1 minute ago, Don't Noonan said:

perhaps you shouldn't be so closeminded?  Just a thought

Are you willing to acknowledge that Trump will likely end up as the worst President in this country's history?

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13 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Are you willing to acknowledge that Trump will likely end up as the worst President in this country's history?

that is a falsehood.  Very unlikely

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7 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Seems pretty closedminded of you to think that.

not really, what could possibly make you think Trump is LIKELY the WORST President of our lifetime?  

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1 minute ago, Don't Noonan said:

not really, what could possibly make you think Trump is LIKELY the WORST President of our lifetime?  

Before you change the subject, why was Mario Kart closed-minded for being critical of your statement that Trump could be the best President, but you're not closed-minded for being critical of my statement that he could be the worst?

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3 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

not really, what could possibly make you think Trump is LIKELY the WORST President of our lifetime?  

My lifetime includes GHWB, Clinton, W, Obama and Trump. I don't really remember GHWB. W is a top shelf war criminal, so I guess W comes in last here. Trump still has time to close the gap.

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8 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Before you change the subject, why was Mario Kart closed-minded for being critical of your statement that Trump could be the best President, but you're not closed-minded for being critical of my statement that he could be the worst?

you said likely to be the worst, big difference

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Just now, Don't Noonan said:

you said likely to be the worst, big difference

I'm not sure that's such a huge difference but OK.  He "may very well" end up being the worst.  Sounds like we're all in agreement here, way to talk it out.

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27 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I'm not sure that's such a huge difference but OK.  He "may very well" end up being the worst.  Sounds like we're all in agreement here, way to talk it out.

have a great day!

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