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2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Thread (1 Viewer)

Eephus

Eephus

Footballguy
This year's Veteran's Committee ballot focuses on "Today's Game".  All candidates were active during the period after 1988.

Harold Baines
Albert Belle
Joe Carter
Will Clark
Orel Hershisher
Davey Johnson
Charlie Manuel
Lou Piniella
Lee Smith
George Steinbrenner

Election requires 12 votes from the 16 committee members, each of whom can vote for up to 4.

I'm a big Hall guy but this is a pretty uninspiring group.  I'd cast my imaginary ballot for Hershisher, Clark and Johnson, abstaining on my fourth pick as an explicit snub of Steinbrenner.

 
Don Quixote said:
Was Lou Whitaker not eligible, or was he snubbed again?  
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I think the HoF's extremely arbitrary rules placed him the "Modern Baseball" era (70-87) rather than "Today's Game" (post 88).   Whitaker was inexplicably left off last year's committee ballot that covered the earlier era.

I think they alternate between the eras so Whitaker, Dale Murphy, Marvin Miller, etc. will be up for discussion again next year.   It's a hopelessly flawed system but there are more important elections to worry about.

 
Joe Carter's career looks really mediocre in Sabermetric terms.  His 19.6 WAR is weighed down by poor defense but even Carter's 28.2 offensive wins trail Lee Smith's total (and WAR doesn't value closers highly). 

But if I take off my :nerd: glasses, there is a lot to be said though about a guy who plays every day, hits with power and drives in runs.  Maybe his World Series walk-off will help his candidacy like it did for Mazeroski. 

 
Carter's 162 game averages are 29 hr's, 107 rbi's, and a 771 OPS

Belle's 162 game averages are 40 hr's, 130 rbis and a 933 OPS

They played over the same time period.  Belle's 10 year run from 91-00 was pretty good.  5 top 10 MVP finishes too.

I wouldn't vote for either one, but i think Belle was much better

 
Joey Belle looked like a HOF player to me.

Carter and Will the Thrill  also, but to a lesser extent.

 
Boy oh boy did I love to hate Will Clark, who really had a hell of a career. 

Top 5 in MVP voting 4 times. Only 2 seasons under a .800 OPS, the first being his rookie year (.787) and 1993 when his OPS was .799

Single-handedly destroyed the Cubs in '89 NLCS .650/.682/1.200. Greg Maddux probably still has nightmares about facing him. 

Too bad there isn't a Hall of Very Very Good 

 
I remember Harold Baines being a much better hitter than his numbers tell. 

I’d vote Hershisher and as much as it pains me being a Red Sox fan, The Boss

 
Jay Jaffe had a good breakdown of the Today's Game nominees.  He mentioned David Cone and Bret Saberhagen as a couple left off.  I don't think either are HOFers, but I'd have put them above some of the nominees (including Hershiser).  Cone in particular. But maybe Saberhagen too, since it's an odd-numbered year.

 
Don Quixote said:
Jay Jaffe had a good breakdown of the Today's Game nominees.  He mentioned David Cone and Bret Saberhagen as a couple left off.  I don't think either are HOFers, but I'd have put them above some of the nominees (including Hershiser).  Cone in particular. But maybe Saberhagen too, since it's an odd-numbered year.
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I would have both in myself.  

 
NREC34 said:
The hall of fame is losing its luster. 

Those guys aren’t very close in my opinion. 
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The veterans committee is stupid. Fail to make it for 15 years? Oh lets give you another chance to squeeze in and once you do you are in the same HOF as the first balloters. Dumb

 
At the very least, your chance on the Veterans Committee ballot should be one and done. If you don't get selected on the first try on the Veterans Ballot that should be it. Baines actually failed to get the votes last time.

 
yeah.... hard to even type that with a straight face.

Only one season with a oWAR over 4 and including that season, only 4 seasons at 3 or above. A complete hack of a defensive player. 

This is a joke of a selection and if Edgar doesn't get in this year, the outrage will be justified

 
Harold Baines was on the original ballot 4 years before not having enough votes to qualify to stay on. The highest percentage he ever received was 6%. He made 6 all star games and never hit 30 home runs in 22 seasons. He played DH a lot and never finished in the top 15 in MVP voting. I almost feel like this whole thing is a big joke. I bet we can come up with over 100 players more deserving than him.

 
shadyridr said:
Harold Baines was on the original ballot 4 years before not having enough votes to qualify to stay on. The highest percentage he ever received was 6%. He made 6 all star games and never hit 30 home runs in 22 seasons. He played DH a lot and never finished in the top 15 in MVP voting. I almost feel like this whole thing is a big joke. I bet we can come up with over 100 players more deserving than him.
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6% omg. That is INSANE

 
Baines was a good player for a long time.  He won't be the worst HoF member, not even close.

It kind of sucks that when the public and media should be celebrating the careers of the new inductees, the discussion turns so negative.  Baines and Smith aren't responsible for the many other inequities of the system.

One thing this committee accomplished was make the writers seem a little less ridiculous.

 
6 AS games in 22 years.  MVP votes in only 4 of those years.  Full time DH at 28.  Heck, I can argue he doesn't have 1 Hall of Fame stat year on his baseball card.

Dreadful.  Guess he made it for swinging a bat for 14 years and playing 22, cause nothing else here says HOF.  Bill Mazeroski feels pretty good right now.

 
Chemical X said:
6 AS games in 22 years.  MVP votes in only 4 of those years.  Full time DH at 28.  Heck, I can argue he doesn't have 1 Hall of Fame stat year on his baseball card.

Dreadful.  Guess he made it for swinging a bat for 14 years and playing 22, cause nothing else here says HOF.  Bill Mazeroski feels pretty good right now.
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At this rate VMart has a pretty solid shot.

 
Think about this.  Baines was 134 hits shy of 3000.  Without the strikes (81, 94, 95) He probably would have reached that milestone and would have been at least a 2nd or 3rd ballot HOF member and before WAR, most wouldn't have batted an eye.

 
Non-HOF* Right Fielders with a higher JAWS score than Baines:

  1. Larry Walker
  2. Dwight Evans
  3. Reggie Smith
  4. Bobby Abreu
  5. Bobby Bonds
  6. Brian Giles
  7. Jack Clark
  8. Tony Oliva
  9. Rocky Colavito
  10. Rusty Staub
  11. Dave Parker
  12. JD Drew
  13. Darryl Strawberry
  14. Felipe Alou
  15. Ken Singleton
  16. Bill Nicholson
  17. Mike Tiernan
  18. Jesse Barfield
  19. Dixie Walker
  20. Johnny Callison
  21. Tim Salmon
  22. Babe Herman
  23. Ben Chapman
  24. Magglio Ordonez
  25. Roger Maris
  26. David Justice
  27. Kirk Gibson
  28. Juan Gonzalez
  29. Reggie Sanders
  30. Paul O'Neill
  31. Shawn Green
  32. Tommy Holmes
  33. Bob Allison
  34. Tommy Henrich
  35. Brian Jordan
  36. Roy Cullenbine
  37. Gavvy Cravath
  38. Carl Furillo
* does not include non-yet-on-ballot players or guys with HOF issues (such as Shoeless Joe)

 
Epic Problem said:
The guy had is number retired by the White Sox before he, himself was. Who else can say that? He's a legend. 
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I read that Jerry Reinsdorf pushed really hard for this, he leaned on the voters, called in every favor. He is ailing, and--to put it somewhat morbidly--is looking to tie up a few final things, and getting Baines into the HOF was a big deal for him.

He loves Harold Baines on a level that might surpass what he feels about Michael Jordan. Baines, Jerry Krause and Kenny Williams are the three guys Reinsdorf always stuck by, no matter what.   

 
Hov34 said:
Think about this.  Baines was 134 hits shy of 3000.  Without the strikes (81, 94, 95) He probably would have reached that milestone and would have been at least a 2nd or 3rd ballot HOF member and before WAR, most wouldn't have batted an eye.
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I remember when he was playing the debate was "if Baines got to 3000 hits would he be a HOFer?" So even then it was questionable.

 
Players with 2,800+ hits who are not HOFers

Beltre & Ichiro (sure fire HOFers imho)

ARod & Bonds (also sure fire HOF'ers imho, but obvious issues with PED use)

Palmeiro and Vizquel (borderline HOF'ers imho)

And I still don't think Baines deserves a whiff of Cooperstown.

 
Interesting Bill James piece about his quantitative model for the Hall based on his Win Shares metric plus 4x WAR.  It includes his list of the 25 worst inductees and the 25 most deserving players who aren't currently in the HoF.   The article presumably was written before Baines was elected but he doesn't make either list. 

It's kind of a long, meandering article but it's worth a read if you like James' distinctive conversational voice.

 
Eephus said:
Interesting Bill James piece about his quantitative model for the Hall based on his Win Shares metric plus 4x WAR.  It includes his list of the 25 worst inductees and the 25 most deserving players who aren't currently in the HoF.   The article presumably was written before Baines was elected but he doesn't make either list. 

It's kind of a long, meandering article but it's worth a read if you like James' distinctive conversational voice.
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Two WIS favorites King Kelly and Hughie Jennings in the least deserving group  <_<

No Rabbit @Bogart  :hifive:  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Eephus said:
Interesting Bill James piece about his quantitative model for the Hall based on his Win Shares metric plus 4x WAR.  It includes his list of the 25 worst inductees and the 25 most deserving players who aren't currently in the HoF.   The article presumably was written before Baines was elected but he doesn't make either list. 

It's kind of a long, meandering article but it's worth a read if you like James' distinctive conversational voice.
Click to expand...


Whitaker is 2nd on the list of most deserving who aren't in.  And Ted Simmons is 3rd - who I've been beating the drum for yeas)

 
I think you can make an argument for a whole lot of guys now. Goes something like this:

Well if Harold Baines is in,  xxxxxx certainly deserves a look. 

 
Current status from the NotMrTibbs' tracker:

With 59 ballots revealed/~14.3% of the vote known:

Mo - 100%
Edgar - 91.5%
Doc - 89.8%
Mussina - 83.1%
Schilling - 76.3%
-----
Clemens - 72.9%
Bonds - 71.2%
Walker - 66.1%
Vizquel - 44.1%
McGriff - 35.6%
Helton/Manny - 23.7%
Rolen - 20.3%
Click to expand...

 
Ignoring steroids, these would be my votes:

Mo - 100%
Edgar - 91.5%
Doc - 89.8%
Mussina - 83.1%
Clemens - 72.9%
Bonds - 71.2%
Walker - 66.1%
Manny - 23.7%

 
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