Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Sinn Fein

2020: The Race For the White House - The Good Place

Recommended Posts

Warren or Harris winning the Democratic primary would be the greatest gift Trump and the Republicans could receive.

 

As a Republican, I'm hoping one of them win the nomination.  

Edited by TripItUp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

Warren or Harris winning the Democratic primary would be the greatest gift Trump and the Republicans could receive.

 

As a Republican, I'm hoping one of them win the nomination.  

As a Republican, you should be hoping someone primarys Trump.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, cap'n grunge said:

As a Republican, you should be hoping someone primarys Trump.

depends on the candidate, but Vegas disagrees with you...for now, Trump would have no problem with any of the Dem frontrunners.  

 

Harris - huge demographic issues

Pocahontas - yeah, no

Beto - one speech wonder

Edited by TripItUp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

depends on the candidate...for now, Trump would have no problem with any of the Dem frontrunners.

Harris - huge demographic issues

Pocahontas - yeah, no

Beto - one speech wonder

I think I'd find this more convincing if a black man hadn't won two of our last three presidential elections. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, caustic said:

I think I'd find this more convincing if a black man hadn't won two of our last three presidential elections. 

it's the woman part...you can't be both black and a female.  

the numbers just don't add up...even with a transcendent figure like Obama.  You would have to have a historically weak republican and/or female republican opposition.  We will have neither this election.

Edited by TripItUp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, TripItUp said:

it's the woman part...you can't be both black and a female.  

the numbers just don't add up.

If the Dem nominee turns out the Obama coalition in the general election, something Hillary couldn't quite do, it's over for Trump. In that sense, I think Harris is one of the most electable candidates in that she has much stronger pull among minority voters than, say, Klobuchar or Warren.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

depends on the candidate, but Vegas disagrees with you...for now, Trump would have no problem with any of the Dem frontrunners.  

 

Harris - huge demographic issues

Pocahontas - yeah, no

Beto - one speech wonder

I'm not talking about how he fares against the Dems. I'm saying no self identifying Republican with any decency should be hoping for a second term for the worst person ever to hold the office. You can do better.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, cap'n grunge said:

I'm not talking about how he fares against the Dems. I'm saying no self identifying Republican with any decency should be hoping for a second term for the worst person ever to hold the office. You can do better.

of course, but he's going to win the nom...that's just how it's going to be. :shrug:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, caustic said:

If the Dem nominee turns out the Obama coalition in the general election, something Hillary couldn't quite do, it's over for Trump. In that sense, I think Harris is one of the most electable candidates in that she has much stronger pull among minority voters than, say, Klobuchar or Warren.

I don't think you nail down the "Obama Coalition" with a  female candidate.  Men just don't vote for women historically.  Men like Trump.

Biden would have a much more realistic shot than Harris IMHO.

 

:shrug:

Edited by TripItUp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bernie is officially in it to win it

Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont, whose 2016 presidential campaign grew from a left-wing insurgency to a force that reshaped the Democratic Party, announced Tuesday that he will seek its nomination for president again in 2020.

Sanders wrote in an email sent to supporters Tuesday that he was building “an unprecedented and historic grassroots campaign” that would draw on people across the country.

“Our campaign is not only about defeating Donald Trump, the most dangerous president in modern American history. It is not only about winning the Democratic nomination and the general election,” he wrote. “Our campaign is about transforming our country and creating a government based on the principles of economic, social, racial and environmental justice.”

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/17/2019 at 7:32 PM, sho nuff said:

I’m just saying I don’t think they can handle a splintered party or a nasty campaign. 

Bernie gettin in may increase the chances of that.

Why does Bernie need to be the one to drop out?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Put another way - why does it seem like a lot of people say “I agree with Bernie, I like his ideas - I think he would have won in 2016 and now 2020.  But he shouldn’t run”

At least Tim and some others say they don’t agree with him and think he’s too far left.  If you DO agree with him and think he can win then vote for him.  

And stop with this splintered party because of Bernie BS.  Bernie threw his support behind Hillary as much as just about any runner-up has in the recent past.  Yes, everybody wants to understand why a moron like Trump got elected but you have to go way down the list to get to Betnie’s Impact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think, in some ways, Bernie will be the victim of his own success.

 

A lot of what he raised in 2016 is now part of the mainstream conversation.  And, to that end, his 2016 campaign was a success, even if he did not secure the nomination.

But, for this cycle, Bernie will have competition for the same voters - I don't know how that will shake out.

 

  • Like 3
  • Thinking 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

Put another way - why does it seem like a lot of people say “I agree with Bernie, I like his ideas - I think he would have won in 2016 and now 2020.  But he shouldn’t run”

At least Tim and some others say they don’t agree with him and think he’s too far left.  If you DO agree with him and think he can win then vote for him.  

And stop with this splintered party because of Bernie BS.  Bernie threw his support behind Hillary as much as just about any runner-up has in the recent past.  Yes, everybody wants to understand why a moron like Trump got elected but you have to go way down the list to get to Betnie’s Impact.

I don't care if he wants to run. Good for him. He finished second last time, but also second to last. This is a crowded field and his chances are miniscule. My only hope is that he and his fan club learned their lesson last time and that the other Democratic opponents aren't the enemy. Their hatred toward Hillary in 2016 is why we currently have Trump as our president. I hope his base has smartened up since then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just saw a video on CNN.com - talking about the top Dem Contenders this month:

1.  Harris

2.  Biden

3.  O'Rourke

 

I think that says everything about how the Dem machine see the race playing out - with Harris so far out in front, the two closest have not even announced they are running (And, I don't think either will run).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, TripItUp said:

I don't think you nail down the "Obama Coalition" with a  female candidate.  Men just don't vote for women historically.  Men like Trump.

Biden would have a much more realistic shot than Harris IMHO.

 

:shrug:

i think you underestimate Harris as a candidate and overestimate Trump as one. if Kamala can continue engaging suburban and women voters then Trump's in trouble. he's done nothing to expand his base in the last 2 years. the congressional midterms were a textbook lesson in how Dems can win in 2020. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

I don't care if he wants to run. Good for him. He finished second last time, but also second to last. This is a crowded field and his chances are miniscule. My only hope is that he and his fan club learned their lesson last time and that the other Democratic opponents aren't the enemy. Their hatred toward Hillary in 2016 is why we currently have Trump as our president. I hope his base has smartened up since then.

I think that is a pretty bad read of how the campaign played out.

 

Clinton lost PA, Michigan, and Wisconsin - that is on her and her campaign.  The "Bernie Bros" on either coast - did not cost Clinton the election.  She lost the middle - because she did not campaign to the middle.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

I think that is a pretty bad read of how the campaign played out.

 

Clinton lost PA, Michigan, and Wisconsin - that is on her and her campaign.  The "Bernie Bros" on either coast - did not cost Clinton the election.  She lost the middle - because she did not campaign to the middle.

Bernie didn't come out and endorse Hillary till long after he lost the primary. And that was a half-hearted support. He was bitter and his base was bitter.  Many of them refused to vote at all rather than vote for Hillary. I personally know a  lot of them. And I live in Pennsylvania, one of the states that won it for trump. Bernie had a huge negative effect for the Democrats. Regardless of Hillary's shortcomings as a candidate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

I think, in some ways, Bernie will be the victim of his own success.

 

A lot of what he raised in 2016 is now part of the mainstream conversation.  And, to that end, his 2016 campaign was a success, even if he did not secure the nomination.

But, for this cycle, Bernie will have competition for the same voters - I don't know how that will shake out.

 

Back in 2016 I compared him to Norman Thomas,  the socialist candidate who ran in the 20s and 30s. In his first campaign in 1928, Thomas made a series of proposals that were regarded as radical. One wonders how he felt in 1932 and 1936, as almost all of his proposals became the key features of the New Deal, yet he himself was still regarded as too radical. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

I just saw a video on CNN.com - talking about the top Dem Contenders this month:

1.  Harris

2.  Biden

3.  O'Rourke

 

I think that says everything about how the Dem machine see the race playing out - with Harris so far out in front, the two closest have not even announced they are running (And, I don't think either will run).

No offense but Cilliza is *terrible*. I wouldn't hire him for Gawker.  I think Biden is the only joker in the deck. Candidates right now are just jockeying for positioning and staking claims to different constituencies. At this point, it's like when a NFL coach scripts his first 15-20 plays to engineer a score to open the game. I agree Harris is at the top of "power rankings" but see Klobouchar and Warren as just below. Others like Booker and Gillenbrand are a rung below. They're just trying to stay ahead of Castro, Gabbard, and even Bernie.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, timschochet said:

Back in 2016 I compared him to Norman Thomas,  the socialist candidate who ran in the 20s and 30s. In his first campaign in 1928, Thomas made a series of proposals that were regarded as radical. One wonders how he felt in 1932 and 1936, as almost all of his proposals became the key features of the New Deal, yet he himself was still regarded as too radical. 

This is another reason he won't be much of a factor this time around. There are other candidates who share some of his ideas now.  As an alternate voice, he was the only game in town last time. Which garnered him a lot of support on college campuses and with other young voters.  I can't see that happening this time around.  There are other options for the young generation besides a 77 year-old man.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, JuniorNB said:

Bernie didn't come out and endorse Hillary till long after he lost the primary.

That is simply not true.

I went to see him at a rally in Lexington - would have been early May.  Bernie was very forceful about both his support for Clinton - and how important it was for his supporters to vote for Clinton.

It was met with Boos - but Bernie was insistent and chastised the reaction. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, saintfool said:

No offense but Cilliza is *terrible*. I wouldn't hire him for Gawker.  I think Biden is the only joker in the deck. Candidates right now are just jockeying for positioning and staking claims to different constituencies. At this point, it's like when a NFL coach scripts his first 15-20 plays to engineer a score to open the game. I agree Harris is at the top of "power rankings" but see Klobouchar and Warren as just below. Others like Booker and Gillenbrand are a rung below. They're just trying to stay ahead of Castro, Gabbard, and even Bernie.

I did not say I agreed with the ranking - only that if CNN is pushing that ranking, that the DNC is somehow behind it...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, JuniorNB said:

This is another reason he won't be much of a factor this time around. There are other candidates who share some of his ideas now.  As an alternate voice, he was the only game in town last time. Which garnered him a lot of support on college campuses and with other young voters.  I can't see that happening this time around.  There are other options for the young generation besides a 77 year-old man.

I agree with this but it’s only one part of it. 

The other part is that in 2016 Donald Trump wasn’t a reality for many progressives. Now he is, and per polling, defeating Trump is the number one priority. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

I did not say I agreed with the ranking - only that if CNN is pushing that ranking, that the DNC is somehow behind it...

Lol I love you Sinn but you’re way too suspicious here. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

I did not say I agreed with the ranking - only that if CNN is pushing that ranking, that the DNC is somehow behind it...

and this is no less specious than Cilizza's commentary?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, saintfool said:

and this is no less specious than Cilizza's commentary?

I like Cilizza. His main flaw is similar to mine- he reacts too quickly. But he’s a good writer and he has some provocative ideas. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, AAABatteries said:

Why does Bernie need to be the one to drop out?  

Because he is 77 years old now...he will be 79 by the time the election rolls around and turn 80 in his first year in office if he wins.  And you can say what you want, but there will be a lot of people who won't vote for him just based on that age alone.

In addition, he will be easily painted as radical and a quote like above  “Our campaign is about transforming our country and creating a government based on the principles of economic, social, racial and environmental justice.” will likely energize those on the right who are scared of such things.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Bernie didn't come out and endorse Hillary till long after he lost the primary. And that was a half-hearted support. He was bitter and his base was bitter.  Many of them refused to vote at all rather than vote for Hillary. I personally know a  lot of them. And I live in Pennsylvania, one of the states that won it for trump. Bernie had a huge negative effect for the Democrats. Regardless of Hillary's shortcomings as a candidate.

This is not true - except for your personal experience with friends.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Because he is 77 years old now...he will be 79 by the time the election rolls around and turn 80 in his first year in office if he wins.  And you can say what you want, but there will be a lot of people who won't vote for him just based on that age alone.

In addition, he will be easily painted as radical and a quote like above  “Our campaign is about transforming our country and creating a government based on the principles of economic, social, racial and environmental justice.” will likely energize those on the right who are scared of such things.

None of that has anything to do with your fractured party theory.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, -fish- said:

Where has she said this?

It's on her senate web page, though she calls it Universal Healthcare and not Medicare for All....is this the point you guys are trying to make?  At this point, IMO, that's a distinction without much of a difference at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, AAABatteries said:

None of that has anything to do with your fractured party theory.  

Sure it does...if there looks like fracture is coming from his type of supporters...you asked why should he be the one to drop out (meaning why him and not others)....my point is because he is more likely to be easily attacked, energize the other side, and give us 4 more years of Trump (IMO).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, saintfool said:

and this is no less specious than Cilizza's commentary?

:shrug:

Call me cynical if you want.

But these are sophisticated campaigns we are dealing with, and they all know how to trade information with the media.  My starting point with most political articles/opinions is that the story is a plant by an opposing campaign - or in this case the DNC establishment.

Now, I happen to like Harris, so I am not terribly bothered by it - but I think it is naive to think that politicians don't own the media. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Sure it does...if there looks like fracture is coming from his type of supporters...you asked why should he be the one to drop out (meaning why him and not others)....my point is because he is more likely to be easily attacked, energize the other side, and give us 4 more years of Trump (IMO).

I think white male Republicans will be energized to vote against a black liberal female (for different reasons) - I guess I should call for Harris to bow out?

Edited by AAABatteries

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

This is not true - except for your personal experience with friends.

Lol.  Geez, so it was only my friends? What are the odds?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

I think white male Republicans will be energized to vote against a black liberal female (for different reasons) - I guess I should call for Harris to bow out?

White male republicans are voting Trump.  That is his base...that is what he has.

That isn't what the left needs to try and change.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I have a lot more concerns about electability with Elizabeth Warren than with Bernie.  

BTW...I also think she should not have been in or should drop out sooner rather than later.

Im happy if both get their ideas out there...but think both have major issues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Bernie didn't come out and endorse Hillary till long after he lost the primary. And that was a half-hearted support. He was bitter and his base was bitter.  Many of them refused to vote at all rather than vote for Hillary. I personally know a  lot of them. And I live in Pennsylvania, one of the states that won it for trump. Bernie had a huge negative effect for the Democrats. Regardless of Hillary's shortcomings as a candidate.

Literally every word of this post is BS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, TripItUp said:

I don't think you nail down the "Obama Coalition" with a  female candidate.  Men just don't vote for women historically.  Men like Trump.

Biden would have a much more realistic shot than Harris IMHO.

 

:shrug:

White uneducated men like Trump.  That's the only male demo that shows constant support for him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Murph said:

Literally every word of this post is BS.

You present quite an impressive argument.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

In addition, he will be easily painted as radical and a quote like above  “Our campaign is about transforming our country and creating a government based on the principles of economic, social, racial and environmental justice.” will likely energize those on the right who are scared of such things.

"The right" will try to paint ANY Dem politician this way.  They will all be labeled "socialist" and be portrayed as individuals wanting to come and take all your stuff.  It's the one trick pony nature of the current GOP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, The Commish said:

White uneducated men like Trump.  That's the only male demo that shows constant support for him.

Trump wins the male vote, this isn’t up for debate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, The Commish said:

"The right" will try to paint ANY Dem politician this way.  They will all be labeled "socialist" and be portrayed as individuals wanting to come and take all your stuff.  It's the one trick pony nature of the current GOP.

“One trick pony”, I don’t think so.

Edited by TripItUp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, TripItUp said:

One trick pony, I don’t think so.

I am willing to take action on this.  If the GOP doesn't attempt to use "socialist" as one of it's cornerstone arguments against the Dem nominee, you win.  If they do, I win.....bet?

 

Edited by The Commish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

BTW...I also think she should not have been in or should drop out sooner rather than later.

Im happy if both get their ideas out there...but think  both have major issues.

:yes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, The Commish said:

I am willing to take action on this.  If the GOP doesn't attempt to use "socialist" as one of it's cornerstone arguments against the Dem nominee, you win.  If they do, I win.....bet?

 

Of course they will, the idiot self proclaimed socialist, 29 year old has energized the conservative base.  

 

That doesn’t make the Republican Party a “one trick pony.”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

White male republicans are voting Trump.  That is his base...that is what he has.

That isn't what the left needs to try and change.

 

Correct

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.