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SaintsInDome2006

Taysom Hill - NO Saints - QB (but also other things...)

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Old thread here, I just thought the title was a bit misleading so leaving that one be.

This may be useful for future dynasty purposes, in future years he could very well have a role as a starter in the league, in or out of NO, but what I and I'm guessing others think is interesting is his usage so far this year, through 9 games:

  • 35 snaps at QB, all over HOFer Drew Brees.
  • 26 at WR (10 in slot).
  • 45 at TE.
  • 7 at RB/FB.
  • 113 on offense overall, 202 on special teams.

I'm curious if anyone thinks his multi-role usage could become a factor in the NFL. In 2 games this year I've seen opposing coaches bring in the backup QB to run some variation of RPO vs the Saints. Is this catching on, could it more so next season lessen the value of QBs generally? I don't think so this season, but maybe next year after an offseason of study by the oft-copycat NFL.

Examining Sean Payton's creative use of Taysom Hil

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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7 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I'm curious if anyone thinks his multi-role usage could become a factor in the NFL. In 2 games this year I've seen opposing coaches bring in the backup QB to run some variation of RPO vs the Saints. Is this catching on, could it more so next season lessen the value of QBs generally? I don't think so this season, but maybe next year after an offseason of study by the oft-copycat NFL.

What's interesting to me is that outside of Saints fandom -- and especially on this board -- almost everyone thinks Taysom Hill's use in the Saints' offense is a misguided and abject failure. Saints fans who watch the games typically disagree ... but we have to admit that Payton's hit rate on the Hill plays is not 100%. Still, the "opponents' prep time" and "mind games/keeping the defense off balance" arguments have some merit, IMHO ... but the advantages of using Hill will likely never be anything you can readily commit to metrics.

In general, though, NFL fans probably have good reason to be skeptical that Taysom Hill is going to change offense very much. We've seen the Wildcat come and go. We've seen the Colin Kaepernick & RGIII-style of option offense come and go. NFL defenses seem to be very good at adjusting.

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8 minutes ago, Doug B said:

What's interesting to me is that outside of Saints fandom -- and especially on this board -- almost everyone thinks Taysom Hill's use in the Saints' offense is a misguided and abject failure. Saints fans who watch the games typically disagree ... but we have to admit that Payton's hit rate on the Hill plays is not 100%. Still, the "opponents' prep time" and "mind games/keeping the defense off balance" arguments have some merit, IMHO ... but the advantages of using Hill will likely never be anything you can readily commit to metrics.

In general, though, NFL fans probably have good reason to be skeptical that Taysom Hill is going to change offense very much. We've seen the Wildcat come and go. We've seen the Colin Kaepernick & RGIII-style of option offense come and go. NFL defenses seem to be very good at adjusting.

The counter is the alleged gains from opposing D's prep time is that the Saints are probably spending 10% of their practice time on a fairly meh yet overly complex set of plays. With all the skill they have I'd be giving my core players and routine plays more attention. People will counter counter argue that "They are the best team in the leauge so they know what they are doing" and I'd remind them not to mistake a positive outcome for a smart decision. :)

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1 hour ago, tombonneau said:

The counter is the alleged gains from opposing D's prep time is that the Saints are probably spending 10% of their practice time on a fairly meh yet overly complex set of plays. With all the skill they have I'd be giving my core players and routine plays more attention. People will counter counter argue that "They are the best team in the leauge so they know what they are doing" and I'd remind them not to mistake a positive outcome for a smart decision. :)

If they can get other teams to not be laser focused on stopping Brees, that's probably a benefit.

If the saints can be slightly better prepared if Brees got injured that's probably good too - although it seems really unlikely that a Breesless saints do much.

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1 hour ago, -OZ- said:

If they can get other teams to not be laser focused on stopping Brees, that's probably a benefit.

If the saints can be slightly better prepared if Brees got injured that's probably good too - although it seems really unlikely that a Breesless saints do much.

I'm sure opposing defenses love when the Saints take Brees off the field.

Maybe I'm wrong about this - a Saints fan could answer better - but if Brees went down I would think Bridgewater would take over not Hill (who can't throw all that well).

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2 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Maybe I'm wrong about this - a Saints fan could answer better - but if Brees went down I would think Bridgewater would take over not Hill (who can't throw all that well).

This is true, but the Hill packages would likely remain the same.

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5 hours ago, Doug B said:

What's interesting to me is that outside of Saints fandom -- and especially on this board -- almost everyone thinks Taysom Hill's use in the Saints' offense is a misguided and abject failure. Saints fans who watch the games typically disagree ... but we have to admit that Payton's hit rate on the Hill plays is not 100%. Still, the "opponents' prep time" and "mind games/keeping the defense off balance" arguments have some merit, IMHO ... but the advantages of using Hill will likely never be anything you can readily commit to metrics.

In general, though, NFL fans probably have good reason to be skeptical that Taysom Hill is going to change offense very much. We've seen the Wildcat come and go. We've seen the Colin Kaepernick & RGIII-style of option offense come and go. NFL defenses seem to be very good at adjusting.

About the wildcat - the problem there was that eventually defense figured out they could crowd the LOS. The man advantage that was gained was quickly lost. I don't think that is true with Hill. He can pass and he can pass well. We know he has his problems, like standard UDFA QB problems, however when faced with defenses crowding the line life throwing the ball gets a lot easier with WRs looking at beating single coverage from safeties only.

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1 hour ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

[Taysom Hill] can pass and he can pass well. We know he has his problems, like standard UDFA QB problems, however when faced with defenses crowding the line life throwing the ball gets a lot easier with WRs looking at beating single coverage from safeties only.

Very few outside of Saints fandom will buy this. I will say this much:

If somehow Taysom Hill had to be the starting QB for an extended period ... I believe Sean Payton could adjust the offense and call the games in such a way that Hill would succeed often enough and the team could move the ball and score around league average or a little better. The offense takes a substantial statistical hit, yes ... but I don't think the Saints team as constructed now drops down to a 3-13-type team with Taysom Hill under center.

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4 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

This is true, but the Hill packages would likely remain the same.

I assumed they'd increase. But could be wrong.

2 hours ago, Doug B said:

Very few outside of Saints fandom will buy this. I will say this much:

If somehow Taysom Hill had to be the starting QB for an extended period ... I believe Sean Payton could adjust the offense and call the games in such a way that Hill would succeed often enough and the team could move the ball and score around league average or a little better. The offense takes a substantial statistical hit, yes ... but I don't think the Saints team as constructed now drops down to a 3-13-type team with Taysom Hill under center.

Right, just not close to the best team in the league.

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4 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Technically, Brees does not go off the field. He splits out at wide at WR.

Which I always find strange. Is the reason that in the huddle the opposing team does not know who the QB will be until they break the huddle? Looks funny when Brady or Brees just stand there spread out wide.

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16 minutes ago, ex-ghost said:

Which I always find strange. Is the reason that in the huddle the opposing team does not know who the QB will be until they break the huddle? Looks funny when Brady or Brees just stand there spread out wide.

I think so. They prepare for Brees, that’s how they structure their base defense and personnel. And the Saints send Brees all the way out to almost the sideline, and sure enough there goes a CB, one game, maybe the Browns in week 2, CLE put 2 CBs on Brees then had to call a timeout. It was ridiculous. I don’t see defenses shutting in personnel when Hill comes in because more than likely Brees will be under Center anyway, but then he’s not. I think one key is that the Saints are leveraging Hill’s snaps at QB for third and fourth and short and inside the 10. 

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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I do hope Taysom Hill executes the hand-off one day. The last few weeks, opponents have adjusted to Hill keeping the ball in short yardage while Kamara runs straight ahead through open green. Hard to imagine defenses can keep selling out to stop Hill and still recover enough to get a hand on Kamara.

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1 hour ago, Doug B said:

I do hope Taysom Hill executes the hand-off one day. The last few weeks, opponents have adjusted to Hill keeping the ball in short yardage while Kamara runs straight ahead through open green. Hard to imagine defenses can keep selling out to stop Hill and still recover enough to get a hand on Kamara.

Maybe they’re saving it for the playoffs. Make taysom keep every time all regular season, everyone thinks he’s gonna keep it every time. Then bam, playoffs and Kamara takes it to the house. 

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On 11/16/2018 at 10:32 AM, Doug B said:

I do hope Taysom Hill executes the hand-off one day. The last few weeks, opponents have adjusted to Hill keeping the ball in short yardage while Kamara runs straight ahead through open green. Hard to imagine defenses can keep selling out to stop Hill and still recover enough to get a hand on Kamara.

Exactly, he’s missed this opportunity a couple times at least, I’d have to think they are working on this wrinkle on film. 

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