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modogg

So is the MNF game between the Rams and the Chiefs the goal of the NFL?

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so watching this game, and following the game thread, it seems the majority of NFL fans love these shoot outs. I am pretty sure the TV Networks and the NFL owners love them too. It would seem the emphasis on protecting the offense, and penalizing the defense, has led to teams put majority of resources into their offense. So is this a good thing in the long run? I can see from time to time it being fun, but this one feels like less of 2 masterful offensive game plans and more of a track meet where you only need to watch the last 5 minutes of the game.

Don't want to nitpick this particular game too much, but rather should the NFL reinforce this more and should teams further adapt by focusing much less attention to defense then the offense? if this is the case, should other sports' organizations like the MLB and NHL look to follow suit? i think the NBA already does to a point. 

My other question is, is this sustainable? i am sure people will be talking about this game up until the next one's, but will the excitement continue if it becomes more of a regular thing (i know with KC this year it kind of has) from an entertainment perspective? Will we have a few games every week like this 7-10 years from now? 

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3 minutes ago, Insein said:

Got me to watch every minute of a non Eagles MNF game for the first time in like 5 years.

so if say every MNF game was like this, you think you would be into it as much every week? General intrigue question. I loved the explosive offenses in the Super Bowl, and there were some great plays tonight, but i don't know if i can watch professional defenses play this horribly each week. 

Luckily for us bud, the Eagles are starting their 10th string CB so we get the chance to see offenses obliterate defenses for the rest of the year. Hopefully the rest of them our offense can match the effort

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Yes, having two 9-1 teams with elite offenses square off in a primetime matchup is the goal of the league. 

And no, this wasn't just an offensive shootout despite the score. This game had it all.

Edited by gianmarco
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I like games like this. But I like games like this because the offenses are truly legendary monsters. Not because defense has been neutered and driven from existence by the rules. 

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My wife came into the room when the score was in the 40's.

She said wow that's a lot of points, are the offenses that good or are the defenses that bad?

I said yes

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25 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

My wife came into the room when the score was in the 40's.

She said wow that's a lot of points, are the offenses that good or are the defenses that bad?

I said yes

The defenses scored 21 of those points...

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45 minutes ago, modogg said:

so watching this game, and following the game thread, it seems the majority of NFL fans love these shoot outs. I am pretty sure the TV Networks and the NFL owners love them too. It would seem the emphasis on protecting the offense, and penalizing the defense, has led to teams put majority of resources into their offense. So is this a good thing in the long run? I can see from time to time it being fun, but this one feels like less of 2 masterful offensive game plans and more of a track meet where you only need to watch the last 5 minutes of the game.

Don't want to nitpick this particular game too much, but rather should the NFL reinforce this more and should teams further adapt by focusing much less attention to defense then the offense? if this is the case, should other sports' organizations like the MLB and NHL look to follow suit? i think the NBA already does to a point. 

My other question is, is this sustainable? i am sure people will be talking about this game up until the next one's, but will the excitement continue if it becomes more of a regular thing (i know with KC this year it kind of has) from an entertainment perspective? Will we have a few games every week like this 7-10 years from now? 

Always been this way....Greatest Show on Turf, Cunningham Vikes, Brady/Moss Pats most recently.  

Best game ever? https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/35-years-ago-chargers-dolphins-was-one-of-the-best-games-in-nfl-history-111016

 

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3 hours ago, gianmarco said:

Yes, having two 9-1 teams with elite offenses square off in a primetime matchup is the goal of the league. 

And no, this wasn't just an offensive shootout despite the score. This game had it all.

I’m amazed that TSP would have multiple posters #####ing about this game.

Actually, not really.

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Good question.  During the game I must say I was pretty entertained.  Mainly I think because we were expecting a fun rare shootout with two incredible offenses.  I think with almost everyone playing fantasy these days too, this game held even more weight  (If this was a Buffalo vs Oakland game that just happened to end in this score, and no one started any of the players in fantasy, I think this would be less watched/talked about)

I think if this was the norm, it would make football overall LESS interesting.  What would a highly anticipated shootout be then?  75-70?  I can't imagine 75-70 being entertaining from start to finish if it didn't involve two very good teams.

This game was awesome, but what made it awesome was the matchup and record of the teams, plus having a lot of defense.  No thanks if this type of score happened multiple times per week, every week. 

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I think the current goal of the NFL is to have 3-4 awesome teams each year that are driven by their offense.  This game was perfect for that.  Casual fans will tune in for teams that score 40+ points.

They'd like the rest of the teams to float around .500 so their fan base stays engaged most of the season hoping for the playoffs or that the next year will bring better fortunes.

What they don't want is the NBA where players make their own super teams and management/fans of the other teams have almost no hope.  That means too many teams trying to blow it up and start from scratch.  Fans won't care.  Players on those teams don't care.

They want NO, NE, KC, and LA types each year.  And everyone else with a "you never know what might happen" feeling.

 

 

 

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I do think it's interesting to note the defense as several people have. This wasn't a Big 12 video game with cheat code type thing. The defense scored and were a huge factor. That's the big difference I think. 

Plus it was elite teams with interesting coaches and story lines. Pretty much the perfect storm.

It's also fun partly because it's rare. 

Which begs the question, is this the kind of game you want to see play out 4 times each week?

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I will add that this year is a great example it feels to me where the league has the parity exactly right. A handful of super-elite teams. But the worst teams are still entirely capable of beating good teams (Buffalo over Minnesota).

Seems perfect.

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I know I’m just an old fuddy duddy, but I thought the game was pretty bad.  I can get my fill of track meets watching college basketball.  If I want to watch relentless scoring with no D I can always tune into the NBA (which is part of why I don’t).  

What I love about football other than that it is the ultimate  team game is the strategic balance of the punch and counterpunch of O vs D.  Last night - it was pretty much punch and get punched.  I’m just not that into the video game type of games like last nights.

That said, the NFL stopped worrying about traditional football guys like me a long time ago.  I guess they figured we’d watch no matter what and they want the crowd that requires continous scoring and assinine post-TD scripted stupidity. Well, they were wrong about me not losing interest.  

I enjoyed the HS championship game last night a lot more than the NFL game.  Honestly, while the athletes were obviously nowhere near comparable, the football was much better.  

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Game should start earlier, imo.

People have to work in the morning.  I went to bed at halftime.

:gramps:

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9 hours ago, modogg said:

My other question is, is this sustainable? i am sure people will be talking about this game up until the next one's, but will the excitement continue if it becomes more of a regular thing (i know with KC this year it kind of has) from an entertainment perspective?

If this was common, it would no longer be as interesting - but it just may become the norm. It's surely trending that way.

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I'm pretty sure the team that loads up in the trenches, gets stud CB's and has a decent QB is going to slow this roll quite a bit. It's football.

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League needs the "Orlando Scandrick" rule that dictates you need some crappy DB in on each play - that should fix it. 

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1 hour ago, Bronco Billy said:

I know I’m just an old fuddy duddy, but I thought the game was pretty bad.  I can get my fill of track meets watching college basketball.  If I want to watch relentless scoring with no D I can always tune into the NBA (which is part of why I don’t).  

What I love about football other than that it is the ultimate  team game is the strategic balance of the punch and counterpunch of O vs D.  Last night - it was pretty much punch and get punched.  I’m just not that into the video game type of games like last nights.

That said, the NFL stopped worrying about traditional football guys like me a long time ago.  I guess they figured we’d watch no matter what and they want the crowd that requires continous scoring and assinine post-TD scripted stupidity. Well, they were wrong about me not losing interest.  

I enjoyed the HS championship game last night a lot more than the NFL game.  Honestly, while the athletes were obviously nowhere near comparable, the football was much better.  

Better tackling?  Better routes run by the WRs?  Better play calling by the coaches?

Never mind, I figured it out...better place kicking.

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2 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

I don’t see either team making the super bowl. 

Thanks. Can you elaborate? 

Who do you see as the favorites to make the Super Bowl?

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10 hours ago, modogg said:

so if say every MNF game was like this, you think you would be into it as much every week? General intrigue question. I loved the explosive offenses in the Super Bowl, and there were some great plays tonight, but i don't know if i can watch professional defenses play this horribly each week. 

There were three defensive touchdowns, and the game ended on an INT. 

I watched the game with my wife and it was definitely the most entertaining game we've seen this year. I'd like to see fewer penalties called, but other than that this was a great one.

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20 minutes ago, PhantomJB said:

The red and yellow uniforms made it tough to see their flags.

the flags were all over the field, similar to confetti, last night.   Hard NOT to spot them

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Those saying the defense was horrible do not really understand how good these offenses were.  The defenses made plenty of plays (21 points and there were a lot of turnovers).  This game had almost everything you could want in a football game.  The only thing that was missing were the big-bone crushing hits (which is probably a factor why many people thought the defense was poor) but the NFL is trying to legislate those type of plays out of the game.  There were elite pass rushers (Donald, Houston) doing their thing and putting pressure while the QB's moved and made plays.  The DB's for both teams weren't the best but there were elite playmakers on both sides that are near impossible to cover regardless of who is out there. 

 

The defense wasn't bad.....the offense was just better.

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1 hour ago, BassNBrew said:

Better tackling?  Better routes run by the WRs?  Better play calling by the coaches?

Never mind, I figured it out...better place kicking.

 

Better tackling for sure.  But mostly just better fundamental football.  One team had a few future D1 players on the team, the other had none on the other side of the ball but schemed well enough to account for those guys.

Overall, the high school game was more entertaining - but then as I said before, I’m way old fashioned and don’t get a huge kick out of guys running free regularly for scores followed by adult men staging children’s playacting afterwards.  Oh, and there was no taunting or cheap shots by either side, and the QBs actually got tackled without the D picking up a 15 yard penalty for it.

 

.

Edited by Bronco Billy

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2 hours ago, eoMMan said:

Game should start earlier, imo.

People have to work in the morning.  I went to bed at halftime.

:gramps:

Move west. 

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For me I thought it was a great game but I fell in love with football right in early 80's. My favorite highlights were never TD's or offense but watching someone like Lawrence Taylor come off the edge and blindside a QB. An era when the notion of defenseless WR would be have been laughed at, making a WR pay physically for going over the middle was a way you just played defense .  I miss that era but it's not coming back and I'm not the demographic the NFL is catering to, this is Big 12  brand of football and  it's here to stay.

 

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3 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

I will add that this year is a great example it feels to me where the league has the parity exactly right. A handful of super-elite teams. But the worst teams are still entirely capable of beating good teams (Buffalo over Minnesota).

Seems perfect.

The NFL definitely crushes all the other sports in the parity category for sure.  It's quite perfect, and the top teams are still heavily rewarded with only 2 playoff wins to get to the SB.

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1 hour ago, Joe Bryant said:

Thanks. Can you elaborate? 

Who do you see as the favorites to make the Super Bowl?

Today I’d say NE and N.O. But there’s still a good part of the season left for others to get hot. 

In the AFC I can see teams like Pittsburgh, Houston or Indy winning against K.C. in the playoffs. 

In the NFC I could also see Bears, Vikings or Panthers. I also think a team like Dallas matches up well against LA with their style of offense. 

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2 hours ago, ffldrew said:

League needs the "Orlando Scandrick" rule that dictates you need some crappy DB in on each play - that should fix it. 

How about an entire team of crappy/hurt DB's?   We'd be doing quite well if that was rewarded.

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I’m not sure it’s the “goal” - obviously the NFL loves a ratings monster like this with 2 high powered offenses, both at 9-1 facing each other in a prime time game. 

If you’re referring to the 100+ point game, and making a commentary on the increased emphasis on offense, that’s where the game has been trending for years now.  But there are plenty of examples of exciting low-scoring games as well. The Bears / Vikings game was pretty awesome, and was much less of a fireworks display. :shrug:

i think the goal of the NFL is to have compelling games. That could mean high scoring, and that could mean low scoring - the rules to protect the QB & receivers are a little frustrating to those of us who grew up with hard-hitting teams of the 70s & 80s, but we have to come to terms at some point with the fact that knucklehead style football has gone the way of the dodo. 

First, social consciousness - CTE is real; and the NFL is right to try and protect players. And teams are on board in no small part because lawsuits are costly, and because players make too much $ to not protect them.

And for the NFL that might mean that star players stay in games longer, and have longer careers.

An early byproduct of that may be a watered down, higher scoring game. But as players adjust/adapt to the new rules, things will normalize. 

For all the complaining about “wussification of the game” that I see in the in-game topics, I still see some hard hitting on the field. The league overcorrectdd earlier this year with the QB hit penalties; and they did the right thing by adjusting & having the refs back off a bit. 

So back to the original question of this topic, it’s yes & no. Yes, the NFL probably loved a high scoring shootout. Undoubtedly. No, that isn’t going to be typical because all teams are not the Rams & KC.  Most teams have better defenses. Most have worse offenses. That matchup & result is awfully hard to replicate league-wide. I’d say the only offense that’s on par with what we saw last night is NOS.

And New Orleans arguably plays better defense than either the Chiefs or Rams, at least until the Rams secondary gets healthy. 

I think the league would be just fine with a low scoring defensive game as well, so long as players aren’t targeting, going helmet to helmet, tackling low, or Siragusa-ing the QB to the ground.  

The game has changed - and we as fans need to change with it. Being critical over a flag is understandable - but understanding why they changed the rule requires empathy. The league doesn’t have a choice there. And yes, there are other dangers in football, and the league is sometimes hypocritical, but that’s just part of a “perfect solution” fallacy. “We can’t fix everything so we should do nothing”. At least they’re doing something. And maybe over time we’ll see that it was the right thing. Or maybe we’ll still lament the days when concussions were so frequent that a national brand once mocked them in a super bowl commercial (“I am Batman. To the bat-cave!”) and there was a halftime segment called “jacked up!” celebrating the most devastating hits of the week. 

One change that seems to have paid dividends is the kick-off rule. Used to be players getting KTFO all the time on kick returns. I can’t remember the last time I saw someone go down on a KR. 

Like most folks, I miss the big hits that were a signature part of football. But I also recognize that it’s a different world now. The NFL is an imperfect organization - they’re slow to change then hasty when they do. They largely make rules in a reactionary style, which leads to confusion & hurts the product during the adjustment period. But I can’t really disagree with the changes they’ve made because the times have changed. 

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3 hours ago, eoMMan said:

Game should start earlier, imo.

People have to work in the morning.  I went to bed at halftime.

:gramps:

Game already started at 5:30 local time on a work day.  Can't go any earlier than that.

EDT:  Actually think the time slot they use is the most ideal for ratings which is and should be the only goal for picking a Monday night time.  You're eliminating a massive amount of the population in California with a 4:30 kickoff on a weekday.  Everyone on the east coast should be able to get the first half in at the very least.

Edited by Deamon

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2 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

Today I’d say NE and N.O. But there’s still a good part of the season left for others to get hot. 

You really see NE as the favorite in the AFC? 

I have a hard time with that. I’m not saying to write em off, but with Gronk chronically injured & Brady either unable or unwilling to throw deep with velocity / accuracy, I don’t know if they’re the beast of the east they were. 

Time will tell, but from the last couple games I’ve seen, the Pats have looked very beatable. 

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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

You really see NE as the favorite in the AFC? 

I have a hard time with that. I’m not saying to write em off, but with Gronk chronically injured & Brady either unable or unwilling to throw deep with velocity / accuracy, I don’t know if they’re the beast of the east they were. 

Time will tell, but from the last couple games I’ve seen, the Pats have looked very beatable. 

KC has to be the fave in the AFC, but the Pats are in 2nd.  It's a close 2nd with them and Pitt, and that likely matchup is going to make a great playoff game.

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3 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

You really see NE as the favorite in the AFC? 

I have a hard time with that. I’m not saying to write em off, but with Gronk chronically injured & Brady either unable or unwilling to throw deep with velocity / accuracy, I don’t know if they’re the beast of the east they were. 

Time will tell, but from the last couple games I’ve seen, the Pats have looked very beatable. 

They always seem to come out better after their bye and they still have time to get healthy and better heading into the playoffs. Favorite or not I could see them beating K.C. in a playoff game even on the road. 

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29 minutes ago, menobrown said:

 

For me I thought it was a great game but I fell in love with football right in early 80's. My favorite highlights were never TD's or offense but watching someone like Lawrence Taylor come off the edge and blindside a QB. An era when the notion of defenseless WR would be have been laughed at, making a WR pay physically for going over the middle was a way you just played defense .  I miss that era but it's not coming back and I'm not the demographic the NFL is catering to, this is Big 12  brand of football and  it's here to stay.

 

Funny, Lawrence Taylor is who I was thinking Aaron Donald plays like. You know he had two blindside strip sacks last night while fighting through blocks.

Edited by CalBear
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1 minute ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

Favorite or not I could see them beating K.C. in a playoff game even on the road. 

I have a very hard time seeing them keep up in KC, with a limited (or no) Gronk. I know they beat them 43-40 already this year, but that was back in week 6, before a slew of injuries. 

And we haven’t really seen much from Brady to Gordon. 

IMO the keys to the Pats success will be 

1. Gronk availability

2. Sony Michele availability

3. Brady’s arm & ability to throw the deep ball. 

I think the Steelers are a more dangerous playoff team myself, but like I said - i’ve learned never to write off the Pats. 

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Just now, CalBear said:

Funny, Lawrence Taylor is who I was thinking Aaron Donald plays like. You know he had two blindside strip sacks last night while fighting through blocks.

That was impressive. Dude has a crazy high motor. It’s a good comparison. 

I was equally impressed by the KC pass rush. They harassed, hit, and blew up so many plays.  Their DTD was huge.

nelther team has much of a secondary though. The picks Mahommes threw were all gift-wrapped. 

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13 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

 

I have a very hard time seeing them keep up in KC, with a limited (or no) Gronk. I know they beat them 43-40 already this year, but that was back in week 6, before a slew of injuries. 

And we haven’t really seen much from Brady to Gordon. 

IMO the keys to the Pats success will be 

1. Gronk availability

2. Sony Michele availability

3. Brady’s arm & ability to throw the deep ball. 

I think the Steelers are a more dangerous playoff team myself, but like I said - i’ve learned never to write off the Pats. 

As long as Andy Reid is coaching that team you shouldn’t have trouble seeing them do anything, IMO. 

Out of K.C. and L.A. I feel like K.C. is almost a lock to not make the SB because if him alone.

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Of course this is what the NFL wants.   This game was exciting, riveting and compelling in every sense of the terms.   And not just because I'm a Tyreek Hill owner.

The NFL doesn't want Arena League football, but they do want up-tempo offensive showcases.   Offensively-challenged teams (like the Redskins for example) don't move the needle much from a ratings standpoint.    They will on Thanksgiving since Dallas-Washington games are great from a Nielsen's standpoint, though neither of those teams are elite offenses.   

 

Edited by dcgangstas
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