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WR DK Metcalf, SEA (4 Viewers)

Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Sorry man, but this sort of thing is just so dumb.  Shaquille O'Neal never beat anyone off the dribble either.

IF Metcalf succeeds it'll be because the first part of that clip -- he's a 228 pound man who is guaranteed to beat you deep if you don't turn and run -- not the second.
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being a one trick pony isnt good in the NFL. Comparing an NBA player to an NFL player isn't really applicable here, much less one 20 years ago

"he will beat you deep if you dont turn and run"

If he is running hitch/comeback routes like that, why wouldnt you turn and run every single time?

 
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Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Sorry man, but this sort of thing is just so dumb.  Shaquille O'Neal never beat anyone off the dribble either.

IF Metcalf succeeds it'll be because the first part of that clip -- he's a 228 pound man who is guaranteed to beat you deep if you don't turn and run -- not the second.
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Let's agree on two things

1) That probably wasn't his best route of the day and it's not a clear indicator that he will suck in the nfl

2) That was really bad and he needs to be a lot better than that if he wants to make it in the nfl 

Let's not make more of this than it is - a rookie sucking at something he needs to improve on, with a bunch of funny gifs responding to the tweet. 

 
bostonfred said:
Let's agree on two things

1) That probably wasn't his best route of the day and it's not a clear indicator that he will suck in the nfl

2) That was really bad and he needs to be a lot better than that if he wants to make it in the nfl 

Let's not make more of this than it is - a rookie sucking at something he needs to improve on, with a bunch of funny gifs responding to the tweet. 
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:goodposting:

I love the little kid memes

 
bostonfred said:
Let's agree on two things

1) That probably wasn't his best route of the day and it's not a clear indicator that he will suck in the nfl

2) That was really bad and he needs to be a lot better than that if he wants to make it in the nfl 

Let's not make more of this than it is - a rookie sucking at something he needs to improve on, with a bunch of funny gifs responding to the tweet. 
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The thing that's missing is the possibility that his defender is already 10 yards further down field, and that at his size a defender can't get around him in any event if he uses his body well.

But I agree it's not a good route.  And more than that, I agree that he's an incredibly linear player.  I measure that -- and he's by a good margin the most straight-line guy in over 1000 prospects.

What I don't know is how good does it *need* to be based on his size and speed.  Some of the "next worst" linear players are Dez Bryant and Steve Smith Jr. (but they're still considerably more lateral than Metcalf).  I suspect Calvin and TO were bad on that front as well.  So, is there a limit or not?  The NFL seems to think so, or he'd have been a first round pick.

Anyhow, my point was that complaining about his route running is like #####ing that Antonio Brown can't use his body to wall off a DB.  That's not how he'll win even if he does pan out.

 
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Dinsy Ejotuz said:
The thing that's missing is the possibility that his defender is already 10 yards further down field, 
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How fast can an athletic DB in the NFL stop and turn around to run 10 yards? I guarantee it's faster than it takes DK to slow down, take his 12 stutter steps, and turn around. If not, then that DB shouldn't be playing 

ETA: I think DK has a role in this offense and can be very productive. They lack a true redzone threat and I think DK can be that guy. He doesnt need to run hitch routes to be a good fantasy option. But if hes going to be a star, he should be able to run that route better. Its refreshing to see a bit of criticism on a guy who has been, for the most part, hyped pretty highly so far. Hes human, and a rookie, and he has warts. So does every other rookie wr. It doesnt mean anything right now other than something he needs to work on; nothing we didnt know a month or two ago

 
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Dinsy Ejotuz said:
The thing that's missing is the possibility that his defender is already 10 yards further down field, and that at his size a defender can't get around him in any event if he uses his body well..
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Ok if we're going to discuss it seriously. 

It's not that he can get away with running this route badly because defenders will be playing off him.  It's that terrible routes like this are exactly why defenders will be able to give him a ten yard cushion. If you see him start to decelerate and don't have to hit him until you get to "two Misissip" there's absolutely no reason to press him or stay close. 

The best thing he has going for him is his size/speed combination. There aren't many big defensive backs that can run as fast as he does and he's got a huge size advantage against the smaller faster corners.  

If big d backs can give him a ten yard cushion and not worry about him breaking off his route, and the guy covering him is big enough to challenge him on 50/50 balls, you've given up that disadvantage.

He has a decent fastball but he needs a second pitch to succeed and his change up looks terrible.  In may. Of his rookie season.  Let's see what happens.

 
Dr. Dan said:
How fast can an athletic DB in the NFL stop and turn around to run 10 yards? I guarantee it's faster than it takes DK to slow down, take his 12 stutter steps, and turn around. If not, then that DB shouldn't be playing 

ETA: I think DK has a role in this offense and can be very productive. They lack a true redzone threat and I think DK can be that guy. He doesnt need to run hitch routes to be a good fantasy option. But if hes going to be a star, he should be able to run that route better. Its refreshing to see a bit of criticism on a guy who has been, for the most part, hyped pretty highly so far. Hes human, and a rookie, and he has warts. So does every other rookie wr. It doesnt mean anything right now other than something he needs to work on; nothing we didnt know a month or two ago
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Not a DB but Darrell Henderson can do it in 1.4 seconds in case you didn’t know 😏

 
Cobbler1 said:
Not a DB but Darrell Henderson can do it in 1.4 seconds in case you didn’t know 😏
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is this really necessary? Are you out to just troll me today. far from "being cool" as Joe encourages

Yes, I'm high on Henderson. Everyone knows. You being cheeky about it doesnt help the DK discussion

 
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Dr. Dan said:
is this really necessary? Are you out to just troll me today. far from "being cool" as @Joe Bryant encourages

Yes, I'm high on Henderson. Everyone knows. You being cheeky about it doesnt help the DK discussion
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I was joking with you brother. Or attempting to. I apologize that it wasn’t clear. I’m high on Henderson as well and was one of the most vocal trumpeting his elite burst and 10 yard split. I thought it was obvious from that thread that we were together on that.

 
Cobbler1 said:
I was joking with you brother. Or attempting to. I apologize that it wasn’t clear. I’m high on Henderson as well and was one of the most vocal trumpeting his elite burst and 10 yard split. I thought it was obvious from that thread that we were together on that.
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Just tired of getting provoked. I've stayed out of the Henderson thread because it just gets me in trouble and causes me to say something that makes me look bad or get PMs asking me to tone it down...

 
Dr. Dan said:
is this really necessary? Are you out to just troll me today. far from "being cool" as Joe encourages

Yes, I'm high on Henderson. Everyone knows. You being cheeky about it doesnt help the DK discussion
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Maybe it would be best if you didn't look to be offended as much. You guys please keep the discussion 100% on football. Thanks. 

 
Dr. Dan said:
Just tired of getting provoked. I've stayed out of the Henderson thread because it just gets me in trouble and causes me to say something that makes me look bad or get PMs asking me to tone it down...
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I understand. You've got good content to add to the boards I know. I've learned lots of times its' best to just move along. Not every post needs a response and it works better that way. 

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Sorry man, but this sort of thing is just so dumb.  Shaquille O'Neal never beat anyone off the dribble either.

IF Metcalf succeeds it'll be because the first part of that clip -- he's a 228 pound man who is guaranteed to beat you deep if you don't turn and run -- not the second.
Click to expand...
Agreed. A lot of overreaction to one clip from a rookie, early in camp, doing something we all knew was a weakness.

I hope the first play in pre-season is him doing a double move off that route.

 
bostonfred said:
he needs to be a lot better than that if he wants to make it in the nfl 
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SPARQ graph

Tom Fornelli‏Verified account @TomFornelli

DK Metcalf’s percentile rankings from the combine are hilarious. He’s the greatest athletic freak on earth….as long as he doesn’t have to change direction.

5:20 PM - 2 Mar 2019

---------------------------------

It is the most incredible SPARQ graph I've ever seen.  The size/speed is amazing but the COG is as bad as it gets.

For those looking for a glimmer of hope.

---------------------------------

Why Seahawks' DK Metcalf is a better route runner than you think

...What I saw in the Seahawks’ rookie minicamp was a receiver far smoother through his route cuts than one would imagine. Metcalf is never going to be an elite short-area guy who breaks cornerbacks down with option routes from the slot. But at 6-3 and 228 pounds, that’s not what you want from a prototypical “X” receiver. From that guy, you want someone who can create separation at the line of scrimmage, body defenders through the first parts of his routes, and create plays with a silly catch radius and the ability to create yards after the catch.

The agility drills were decent, but decent is good enough with all his other attributes.

...Metcalf proved that he could make catches beyond the perimeter of the average receiver with a sideline dive on a quick out, and a jump ball in which he made his defender look like he was in a different zip code. As far as the cuts to separate, he’s perfectly fine as long as he sinks into his routes and uses momentum to accelerate. The offseason work shows up there. And on another play, he absolutely raked cornerback Simeon Thomas out of his area with an aggressive move to come back to the ball. The combination of strength and cutting speed brought Dez Bryant to mind. And his outside move to fake to an inside quick slant is an absolute killer — on plays like that, it’s easy to see how, per Sports Info Solutions, he had a 100% Positive Play Rate against zone coverage in 2018.

Things got even showier on Saturday, when Metcalf caught five would-be touchdown passes on deep routes, boxing out and racing past cornerbacks who didn’t seem to know what to do with him. He also ran skinny slants and quick outs for receiver screens in which he wasn’t targeted, but this was more evidence that this is a player who can do more than people think. And on Sunday, he showed the ability to move from a quick out route to a zone beater underneath, adjusting to a scrambling quarterback.

If this guy is seriously limited as a route runner, I certainly didn’t see it, and I was looking for it.
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Burning 2018 6th round round pick Simeon Thomas, who was cut by the Browns, in shorts may prove a bit easier than when the pads come on vs experienced CBs, but we will see I guess. 

I like the fact that the writer says Metcalf was his 14th ranked player overall.  Obviously, NFL personnel evaluators disagree including the team that drafted him, who waited until the last pick of the 2nd round to make a move for him. But what do they know? 

 
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pantherclub said:
I dont even.  I mean what is he trying to do here?

It looks like he got confused mid route but everything about that looks weird.  Is he really that stiff?
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ta-ta-ta-ta-today junior!!!!!!

The funniest thing about this all is the original tweet, to me, seemed to be bragging about the route being good!

 
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Even if he is limited to deep throws his ability to beat coverage and get deep envelopes nicely with Russell Wilson's unique deep-ball accuracy.

Wilson was tied with Mahomes as third best in the NFL throwing deep and lead the league with 15 deep-pass TDs.  

------------------------

Pro Football Focus✔@PFF

Russell Wilson tied with the league's third-highest deep pass rate and connected on a league-leading 15 deep-pass TDs – tying with Patrick Mahomes in both categories.

1:47 PM - May 22, 2019

 
Five Takeaways From Seahawks Quarterback Russell Wilson’s 2019 Minicamp Press Conference

Excerpts:

“It’s great seeing DK [Metcalf] make his plays. I think DK is looking really, really special,” Wilson said. “He can do anything and everything and he’s tremendous.
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DK Metcalf has impressed with his knowledge of the game.

Asked about Metcalf, a second-round pick out of Mississippi, Wilson was quick to point out that Metcalf is more than just a physical specimen. Yes, Metcalf did indeed run a 4.33-yard 40-yard dash and pop a 40.5-inch vertical at 6-foot-4, 229 pounds, but that isn’t what Wilson singled out when asked about the rookie.

“His knowledge of the game first,” Wilson said. “Everybody knows about ability to run and jump and catch and all that. But I think more than anything else, it’s his brain, how he processes information, how quickly he understands it. He’s really intelligent, he understands the game really well. He takes coaching well, he gets extra work. He’s a legit pro wide receiver. He’s everything everyone was talking about in terms of what he’s capable of and more.”
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Ok, WIlson first talks up DK's knowledge of the game, then posting this video and the other piece about his improved or underrated route running. 

For rookie dynasty drafts, I'm starting to think  he may be a better option over Harry, which essentially make him the #1 WR.  This seems insane given his nearly falling to the 3rd round.  

 
The stud QB hyping up a rather pedestrian 9 route is certainly better than the official team twitter account doing it, but it was also obviously a team-curated video meant to pump up DK. Not sure it means anything but who knows

 
I can’t remember being so confused on a prospect. One minute I have convinced myself that he is a raw, one trick pony that will be too inconsistent to bother with. The next minute I am certain his weaknesses won’t matter because of his insane strength/speed combination.

 
King of the Jungle said:
I can’t remember being so confused on a prospect. One minute I have convinced myself that he is a raw, one trick pony that will be too inconsistent to bother with. The next minute I am certain his weaknesses won’t matter because of his insane strength/speed combination.
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Matt Jones

:bag:

 
Matt Jones never applied himself and yes the drugs didn't help. Size, speed comparison is accurate. Mental makeup is not. Metcalf, from what I can tell, wants to work hard to be great. Jones never did. I'm deciding between him and Parris Campbell and leaning towards Campbell. More passes, better long term opportunity, location.

 
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King of the Jungle said:
I can’t remember being so confused on a prospect. One minute I have convinced myself that he is a raw, one trick pony that will be too inconsistent to bother with. The next minute I am certain his weaknesses won’t matter because of his insane strength/speed combination.
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Dorial Green-Beckham

 
lod001 said:
Dude was dumb as a brick and also didn't apply himself.
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And DGB also wasn't nearly the freak people convinced themselves he was. He had huge blue chip devy hype going back to his HS recruitment so people overlooked a lot of flaws on their way to the pre-determined Calvin Johnson comp that he did nothing to earn. His measurables were nowhere near as freakish at the time. 

 
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So....

Positives

  1. Athletic freak with unusual size/strength/speed combination
  2. Russell Wilson as his quarterback
  3. By all accounts appears to be a hard worker
Negative

  1. Change of direction and route running ability
  2. Injury history
  3. Not overly impressive college production
What I like is he seems to be attacking his craft (even responding to the route running concern with videos). Really excited to see him compete in pads. Lebron James of football....or another big who fails to leave his mark?

 
King of the Jungle said:
So....

Positives

  1. Athletic freak with unusual size/strength/speed combination
  2. Russell Wilson as his quarterback
  3. By all accounts appears to be a hard worker
Negative

  1. Change of direction and route running ability
  2. Injury history
  3. Not overly impressive college production
What I like is he seems to be attacking his craft (even responding to the route running concern with videos). Really excited to see him compete in pads. Lebron James of football....or another big who fails to leave his mark?
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Negative-2 and Negative-3 are essentially the same thing, no? He produced pretty well when he was on the field.

 
King of the Jungle said:
I can’t remember being so confused on a prospect. One minute I have convinced myself that he is a raw, one trick pony that will be too inconsistent to bother with. The next minute I am certain his weaknesses won’t matter because of his insane strength/speed combination.
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SPARQ appears to be a big factor behind the Hawks drafting....  Christine Micheal redux?

That's probably an extreme comparison but, in general, but measurables above football ability scare me...

 
steelers1080 said:
Dorial Green-Beckham
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One of his biggest weakness' was lack of strength getting of the LOS.

DGB has lots of 'other' issues that derailed his career.

Dorial Green-Beckham highlights: Watch the newest Eagles wide receiver

Weaknesses - Play strength is a major concern. Struggles to free himself from press coverage and can be taken completely out of his routes. Runs sloppy, rounded routes. Fails to set up his breaks and frequently leads cornerbacks to his destination. Slow to adjust routes and find open space against zone. Fails to create the separation that is potentially available for him at top of routes. Rarely looks to body up cornerbacks and keep them out of the throw. Suspect work ethic. Awareness of footwork near sideline an issue. Considered a problem child at Missouri. Suspended twice by Missouri and arrested twice for marijuana-related incidents. Kicked off team at Missouri in April 2014 after details of his alleged role in an alleged burglary were released by Columbia, Mo., police. He allegedly shoved a female student down some stairs during the alleged incident, but no charges were filed. Missed entire 2014 season.
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Every report showed Metcalf has crushed press-man coverage that he's faced with the Hawks.

Just one of many reports of him being able to get release with ease.

Wrapping up Seahawks rookie mini-camp: DK Metcalf shows off  

RENTON -- The wide receiver position was the focal point of this weekend's three-day rookie mini-camp and the group was unquestionably headlined by second-round pick DK Metcalf.

The rookie out of the University of Mississippi clearly stood out over the three days of practices. From a pogo stick-like leaping catch and catch off his back during the first day on Friday to an effortless grab over the middle on Saturday, Metcalf's athletic gifts shined through. He managed to shine even despite a taped up left ankle.

"He had a great weekend. He really did," head coach Pete Carroll said. "He had the opportunity to catch balls of all different kinds all over the field. Down the field of course, he was really comfortable with all the long ball stuff. Everything we did with him, he was very comfortable with."

Metcalf showed a proficiency with his releases from the line of scrimmage, his ability to cover ground in the second phase of his routes and a smoothness in catching the ball as well.

"I know that everybody’s wondering about this route tree thing and all that now, and I don’t see that being a factor," Carroll said. "He looks like he’s very well versed, been coached. And I’ve said before, he had really good work that he did since the season was over with the guys that he worked with. Jerry Sullivan is an extraordinary coach and he came in here ready to go and in good shape and he ran fast and he looked good, hung through all of it. So it’s really an exciting first introduction."
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Size coupled with rare strength is what separates him from the pack and laps DGB who, for some reason, had issues freeing himself from press man coverage.

Strength was an issue with DGB but is a real strength with DK.

Ole Miss WR D.K. Metcalf is lifting as much as D-linemen 6 This dude is gonna be a monster.

 
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