I'm absolutely not in the "it's roids!" camp, but just wanted to point out this isn't true. He could easily have already cycled off and gotten his system clean. It's not like you test positive for the rest of your life once you taken a PED.
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WR DK Metcalf, SEA (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter ty247
- Start date
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Right and I’m not saying he’s on steroids. When I said supplements, I meant all the legal stuff that gives the pros an edge. Some people are just more apt to adding bulk than others and have to be careful with their weight training (think boxers or pitchers). You are right that it has nothing to do with being cut, it’s just the bulk on him. He’s big and has the physique of a DE.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Here are reactions from an ex-scout and current NFL scout if people want to get an idea of what some scouts/teams think of him adding that bulk:
Jim Nagy is a an ex-scout who now runs the Senior Bowl. The follow up tweet from AngryNFLscout is a reply to Nagy's tweet, AngryNFLscout is a current NFL scout, he is anonymous to us but Nagy knows who he is.
Jim NagyVerified account @JimNagy_SB
Ole Miss WR D.K. Metcalf is a freaky specimen but when most football people see this the blink reaction will be that he’s getting too big. At this size, NFL teams will have concerns about his upper body flexibility. Hard to adjust and extend with this kind of bulk. #NFLDraft
AngryNFLScoutVet @angryscout2
Exactly. First reaction is steroids and guy is too stiff. I wouldn’t want a WR who is this bulky.
Jim Nagy is a an ex-scout who now runs the Senior Bowl. The follow up tweet from AngryNFLscout is a reply to Nagy's tweet, AngryNFLscout is a current NFL scout, he is anonymous to us but Nagy knows who he is.
Jim NagyVerified account @JimNagy_SB
Ole Miss WR D.K. Metcalf is a freaky specimen but when most football people see this the blink reaction will be that he’s getting too big. At this size, NFL teams will have concerns about his upper body flexibility. Hard to adjust and extend with this kind of bulk. #NFLDraft
AngryNFLScoutVet @angryscout2
Exactly. First reaction is steroids and guy is too stiff. I wouldn’t want a WR who is this bulky.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Large man
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Looks a lot bigger than Njoku. Njoku isn’t nearly that massive. He looks a lot more like Myles Garrett. This has become a fascinating combine story to follow.
Pwingles
Footballguy
Until I see his combine suffer in the agility areas, or bad habits in the catch drills/route running areas, i am not even a little concerned. He is still 1.02 for me in most formats
Ilov80s
Footballguy
That’s fair. Is there no weight that would concern you? I’m saying all this as someone who’s not all that into Metcalf to begin with.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Wikipedia says that he was alternately the size of a Walther P38 handgun or 6 meters tall.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
6’5” 235. Big guy but not as bulky as that picture makes DK appear imo.
https://www.google.com/search?q=calvin+johnson+body+issue&client=safari&hl=en-us&prmd=insv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiV5dT-3rngAhU9CTQIHfz8D8cQ_AUoAXoECA4QAQ&biw=375&bih=553#imgrc=MnHRk9EAvgaN5M&imgdii=A16XdiZ7US7ifM
ZWK
Footballguy
Draftscout has Calvin with combine measurements of 6'5.0" 239 lb which makes him the heaviest successful WR to enter the league since 2006. They have Dez at 6'2.0" 225 lbs., which makes him the highest BMI (28.9) successful WR to enter the league since 2006. If we remove the "successful" requirement and look at all WRs drafted in the first 3 rounds since 2006, the heaviest is Kelvin Benjamin at 240 and the highest BMI is Ty Montgomery at 30.1 (or James Washington at 29.7 if you count Montgomery as a RB).
Interseptopus
Footballguy
pending a combine pr draft destination disaster I'm back to being all in
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Let's see what he measures at the combine.
IIRC Andre Johnson was completely monstrous pre-draft, btw. Actually, looked it up and I have it as 74" flat and 230. Which is a BMI typically found in TEs. I believe he played a bit smaller than that though.
Not super worried about this. He's almost certainly got someone advising him. But I'd definitely prefer he come in looking like at least one or two previously successful WRs. Demaryius or Brandon Marshall or someone like that.
IIRC Andre Johnson was completely monstrous pre-draft, btw. Actually, looked it up and I have it as 74" flat and 230. Which is a BMI typically found in TEs. I believe he played a bit smaller than that though.
Not super worried about this. He's almost certainly got someone advising him. But I'd definitely prefer he come in looking like at least one or two previously successful WRs. Demaryius or Brandon Marshall or someone like that.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
He got hurt and it shortened his career but chances are none of the WRs in this draft class put together a 4 year stretch as good as Dez did from 2011-2014.
Pwingles
Footballguy
to some degree I suppose, but that would mostly be concern about leg and foot injury and lessening agility
JohnnyU
Footballguy
That all sounds great, but why are these experts ignoring his lack of production in college, not just his last year because of injury? I would think that would be a tremendous red flag.
NightStalkers
Footballguy
My guess is the quality of his other WR teammates. Brown and Lodge are considered to be good prospects themselves. Brown may go ahead of Metcalf and I saw some write up a long time ago that said Lodge had better separation than either of them.
Can't remember how productive or raw Calvin Johnson was but I remember an article that he had a task master of a WR coach his first few years in Detroit who really refined him. Hope Metcalf gets the same type of coaching. If he learns his craft that size speed combo is in the Calvin/Julio type area.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I keep "hearing" @JohnnyU: Thinking about Mefcalfs production as a red flag.
I'm starting to like JJAW more than Metcalf. He has a similar size, better route running, has been an actual redzone target, has produced at the college level. The only thing he may not have is Metcalfs speed. maybe
I'm starting to like JJAW more than Metcalf. He has a similar size, better route running, has been an actual redzone target, has produced at the college level. The only thing he may not have is Metcalfs speed. maybe
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
Hell, Metcalf may end up the next Calvin Johnson for all I know, but based on what I have in front of me now, I think it's foolish to say he doesn't have more than normal risk.
Zyphros
Footballguy
Overall I don't particularly like him but if his athleticism checks out and he looks the part in the drills, I just can't deny that. I'd still likely have 2-3 WR's ahead of him which will probably put him out of my range of owning him, but I'd say he passed the test if things break right.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Well that's the draw; he could very well be the next Calvin Johnson. His measurables are there. The production is not. I think once you get over the wow factor of his meausrables you need to start asking yourself why he has such poor college stats. He didnt just become big and athletic a month ago. He has been this way since pop warner. For myself, I'm starting to look at a bunch of others and I see size, comparable athelticism, and better college production. That moves Metxalf down a little.JohnnyU said:
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I have Harmon better than Metcalf even though I think Metcalf will be drafted before Harmon.
Zyphros
Footballguy
Right now I have AJ Brown, N'keal Harry and Kelvin Harmon above Metcalf in terms of rookie rankings. Obviously the combine is a big piece of information but as long as Harmon/Harry/Brown all have average or better combines, Metcalf will be behind those 3. If he bombs the combine (which I doubt) he'd drop below Butler and Samuel very likely. Probably near 12-15 overall rather than top10.
Right now, I'm swinging for the fences with Metcalf as my pick at 1.1. I figure even if he goes to BALT, it wont take too long for them to realize that Jackson is in no way an NFL QB. I'll pass on the RBs because there are so many in this draft and they are all alike. The RB I like the best will probably slide to me at 2.1. Metcalf is the prospect in the draft that has the ability to be a superstar.
Gandalf
Footballguy
I’m getting a little concerned about his lack of a route tree. What if he’s the next Cordarelle Patterson?
Gandalf
Footballguy
Patterson can't catch, never could catch. He's always been useless. Metcalf is more Andre Johnson than anything else. If he would not have gotten hurt, he would have been identical in stats to Johnson. I think his hands are about the same as well.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Good point
Another good point.
Just when I think I'm out they pull me back in!!
I dont see any other players in this draft who have potential to be superstars. He is the most risky though because, IMO, he either makes it and is amazing or he busts badly.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
If he's in the 4.4s, jumps the 37/130 we heard about earlier and is subsequently drafted in the first ~20 picks or so, he should be the runaway #1 pick in most FF formats.
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Gandalf
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
The low volume is definitely an added risk, but 3 TDs on 46 catches is not the same as 14 on 67 and the early first is not the same as the late first.
Gandalf
Footballguy
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I wouldn’t be influenced by anyone in this forum if I were you. It’s not like any of us are experts. Read as much as you can from many real experts and watch every reception he has ever made if possible, then makeup your mind and own it, right or wrong.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Was making a subtle joke at myself as I am sure if someone wanted to look at all my posts they'd see me talking up a guy then down on him 2 or 3 days later. I tend to evolve my opinion in the forums on these rookies through conversation.
But in reality I will likely weigh what people have to say and then make my own decision. I have 1.1 in 2 leagues (earned it in 1 league) and the one where I earned it, it is the most important to get it right. I need a superstar. not sure if I am taking Metcalf or not at this point
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skinfanjon
Footballguy
Then what is even the point of posting anything?
There's plenty to be learned, just gotta pay attention to the right voices.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
His stats weren't "poor", he just got hurt and only played half the year.
He put up a modest but solid year as a freshman, and then was on pace to finish with 66-1000-13 this year as a sophomore before getting hurt, which are great numbers for college. Not to mention his crazy 22ypc stat.
I am not particularly big on Metcalf myself as I've always preferred polish to raw talent, but the idea that he had "poor" production is wrong. He just had a lack of production. There is a difference. He was meeting every preseason expectation laid out for him this year before the injury.
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
It's one thing to listen to other opinions and quite another to let them change your mind daily. At some point you have to trust yourself if you've done your best to find out as much information as you can from MANY sources. I think one has to keep in perspective how much of that information is coming from experts in this forum. I don't claim to be an expert at all. Where I win is gathering as much information about a player from many sources on the internet and make my decision, right or wrong, and I certainly don't make my decisions entirely based on what is said at FBGs. They are just one piece to the puzzle and a small piece at that.
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
I think where we're at with Metcalf is that he has a high ceiling with a lot of risk, both with injuries, route tree, and college production. He could turn out to be an absolute stud, or he could be a cross between Patterson and Treadwell with a bum neck. I believe FF owners are gamblers by nature and most would take him at the top of their rookie drafts, but the more skeptical will let someone else take that chance. The thought of him being the next Andre Johnson or Calvin Johnson is too tempting for most and would rather bust on the pick rather than pass on him and he becomes one of those type of players. The problem with this draft is there aren't any perceived mega studs at the top of the draft, but instead plenty of good players and that makes it even harder to pass on Metcalf. However, if he's a bust, wasting a 1.1 pick can set your team back a few years in dynasty. For me personally that is just as scary as him becoming the next Andre Johnson or Calvin Johnson.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I think this is pretty accurate.
Considering my teams picking at 1.1, I almost need to swing for the fences. A stud wr on both teams would vault me up the standings pretty quickly, as I have all the other pieces falling into place. I am skeptical of Metcalf but if he lands somewhere favorable I think 1.1 is a must
