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Jeffrey Epstein: there is definitely nothing to see here folks, I am feeling very sleepy, I think I'll take a nice nap. (2 Viewers)

Also of note, the alleged victim in the Epstein/Trump civil suit stated that in her first encounter with Trump, he said very little to her other than that "she reminded him of his daughter." The alleged victim and Trump's daughter were both ~13-14 at the time of the alleged encounters.

 
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I’m particularly sensitive to this issue. From 1975-1985, my elementary school math teacher molested some 100 kids. I was probably one. I say probably because he housesat for a week for me and my brother, and was known to drug his victims. He had access, and though my brother was his preferred target and I know he masturbated in front of him, I was probably a victim, too.

I also was the one after 10 years who blew the whistle by telling my mother when this monster masturbated in front of two of my friends.

By then, hundreds of kids knew this guy was a perv, but no one told. Predators create an insular cult, an aura of fear. When I did tell, I was ostracized. I literally lost every friend I had for telling. 

It is hard to be a victim, and hard to come forward. It’s the predator’s advantage.

Great! He was caught. So the reign of terror (that ended in suicides and one of my best friends drug addiction and OD) was over!

Nope! The school district paid him severance and released him quietly into the wild, to So Cal, where he set up shop again and raped more kids.

At minimum, that was the effect of the Acosta deal. More victims, more lives ruined. More addiction, and depression, and substance abuse. 

These matters need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent, and the perpetrator and enablers held to account.
Wow. So sorry Ham. Thanks for sharing though 

 
As an exercise in rampant speculation suppose the photos recovered were probably covered by a sufficient warrant.  Suppose this as the feds are pretty good at their jobs.  Now suppose they were taken by hidden cameras.  Suppose they were taken surreptitiously by Epstein hoping to obtain blackmail material.  Suppose they show a rich, famous, powerful person engaged in illegal activities.  Would that persons lawyer be able to suppress those photos, and any investigation springing therefrom, citing that person's privacy expectations?  Does one have a privacy expectation in a private home, apparently alone, when engaged in illegal activity?  What about if there is a palpable claim that they were unaware they were engaged in illegal activity as opposed to simply morally questionable activity?
No - those pictured in your hypo have no constitutional expectation of privacy in photos not in their possession. And any statutory right to their own image wouldn’t apply to images of them committing crimes, used as evidence against them. 

Also note - my answer would be the same even if the photos were illegally seized (though I agree that the Feds likely had legit warrants allowing a full search).  Only Epstein has an expectation of privacy in his own possessions on his own property, so only Epstein’s 4th Amendment rights would have been violated. 

 
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OK here was the original post. 

So the sourcing for the 26 flights, with 5 without secret service, comes from Gawker in 2015. Are they a reliable source? I know nothing about them. Today Clinton’s spokesman stated there were only 4 flights and all had secret service. There’s a pretty big difference between 4 and 26. Obviously somebody is not telling the truth here. 

I have no opinion on who is being accurate, but the story linked above bothers me because it says that Clinton chose to decline secret service protection. My understanding has always been that, even as an ex-President, he’s not allowed to do so. Am I wrong about this? 
On MSNBC they also referenced these reports and I believe they said they independently reviewed the flight logs as well.

Clinton’s statement, I believe, covered a smaller time frame than referenced in the flight logs. So both might be correct.

 
As an exercise in rampant speculation suppose the photos recovered were probably covered by a sufficient warrant.  Suppose this as the feds are pretty good at their jobs.  Now suppose they were taken by hidden cameras.  Suppose they were taken surreptitiously by Epstein hoping to obtain blackmail material.  Suppose they show a rich, famous, powerful person engaged in illegal activities.  Would that persons lawyer be able to suppress those photos, and any investigation springing therefrom, citing that person's privacy expectations?  Does one have a privacy expectation in a private home, apparently alone, when engaged in illegal activity?  What about if there is a palpable claim that they were unaware they were engaged in illegal activity as opposed to simply morally questionable activity?
No - those pictured in your hypo have no constitutional expectation of privacy in photos not in their possession. And any statutory right to their own image wouldn’t apply to images of them committing crimes, used as evidence against them. 

Also note - my answer would be the same even if the photos were illegally seized (though I agree that the Feds likely had legit warrants allowing a full search).  Only Epstein has an expectation of privacy in his own possessions on his own property, so only Epstein’s 4th Amendment rights would have been violated. 
Okay, I'm with you feller's.

 
You'd think all these guys that lost their mind over Pizza Gate would wait for some facts to come out before claiming who is or isn't involved.  
Agreed. When making accusations on a subject as despicable as child molestation the evidence needs to be extremely compelling.  That’s not something that should just be thrown around lightly.  

 
OK here was the original post. 

So the sourcing for the 26 flights, with 5 without secret service, comes from Gawker in 2015. Are they a reliable source? I know nothing about them. Today Clinton’s spokesman stated there were only 4 flights and all had secret service. There’s a pretty big difference between 4 and 26. Obviously somebody is not telling the truth here. 

I have no opinion on who is being accurate, but the story linked above bothers me because it says that Clinton chose to decline secret service protection. My understanding has always been that, even as an ex-President, he’s not allowed to do so. Am I wrong about this? 
According to this article Fox News were the first to find the flight logs.

https://www.snopes.com/ap/2019/07/08/what-did-epsteins-famous-friends-know-and-see/

 
Keep in mind that as Secretary of Labor Acosta oversees the government's policies on human trafficking, sex trafficking and child labor. Trump may have been doing more than just repaying a decade-old favor. 

On Preet Bharara's podcast today he was talking with another former Attorney General and they both agreed that meeting alone with a defense attorney at their own office was highly unusual. So unusual that they'd never heard of it and never considered it possible because it's so unethical on its face. And Acosta did it 4 or 5 times. 

They'd also never heard of blanket immunity for uncharged co-conspirators and doubted it would hold up because it was so bizarre and vague. 

And, of course, they'd never heard of hiding a plea agreement from victims and struggled to come up with a reason that wasn't conspiratorial. 

Basically the whole thing is quadruple-fishy and probably more. Why this guy hasn't been fired based just on what I posted is totally egregious. He should be prosecuted as well. 
Lawyers, Guns, and Money.

 
There's a sexual appetite that's on a continuum, with some being voracious, and others able to do without, and yet others horrified by sexuality.

There's another continuum which is a respect for boundaries and other people's well-being.  Some folks are very considerate, some folks don't care how their actions affect others so long as they get what they want.

Quite a few other continuums come into play, and when you get folks pretty extreme on a few of these continuums, you have folks capable of behaving in ways way outside of the social norm.  And if those folks end up being wealthy, and powerful, and are willing to use their power and wealth to further feed their appetites, well that's a dangerous situation - one that society, our justice system, our government, is supposed to help protect us from. 

In this case with Epstein, it clearly failed many people.
Well said.

 
How about Mueller, who oversaw the investigation into Epstein and cut a deal with him to take down 2 Bear Stearns employees?

Does he get a free pass for letting a pedophile off the hook?
I take it we agree on Acosta, so shake on that hopefully.

Prosecutors cut prosecution deals, FBI agents investigate. I mentioned the Bear Stearns deal further up and hopefully whatever Epstein provided on that comes out of the forthcoming release of public records. He was originally tossed out of Bear Stearns for ethical violations (imagine how bad that must have been) so I really wonder what kind of valuable information he could have given.

 
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Btw, since I've now blackdotted this thread, I'd like to admit I am also a Kirkland alum.  But not involved in any pedophilia coverup, as far as I know.  Just didn't want all of K&E to be painted with a broad, ugly brush.

 
I think Kevin Spacey was on Epstein island a few times.  Looks like he's getting ready to skate.  Pretty soon Harvey Weinstein will be making movies again.  These rich people with connections can evidently get away with pedophilia.  It's sick.
Did Weinstein get accused of being a pedo? A rapist creep, I remember, but I don't remember the under age sex thing (and @Zow would likely classify what Spacey allegedly did as homosexual ephebophilia - just to be precise)

 
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Out of control?  

You're like a conservative hall monitor yelling fire when you see candles lit on a birthday cake.  Anyone who can't handle this level of craziness probably wouldn't contribute positively to the forum anyway.
Are you saying that bluto has previously contributed positively?

 
I did the homework...

Sublimeone (interesting to see the comments in that thread compared to the PSF before Trump Hate Syndrome set in)

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/722421-you-know-who-else-has-a-rapey-past/?do=findComment&comment=17654092

Saints:

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/705480-for-the-love-of-god-do-not-elect-hilary-clinton-next-election/?do=findComment&comment=18093912

Saints:

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/721079-official-hillary-clinton-2016-thread/?do=findComment&comment=18426716

Interesting that the only posts related to Jeffrey Epstein from Day 1 until Trump was the Republican nominee (according to the FBG search) were from Saints (who went from Hillary hater to Trump hater at some point) and some guy named sublimeone. There was no dedicated thread.

ETA:

The above were from a search from day 1 to 1/1/2015. (To exclude any results after Orange Man was declared Bad)

1/1/2015 to 1/1/2016:

Sublimeone:

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/722421-you-know-who-else-has-a-rapey-past/?do=findComment&comment=17653771

Baloney Sandwich:

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/722421-you-know-who-else-has-a-rapey-past/page/2/#

Baloney Sandwich:

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/722421-you-know-who-else-has-a-rapey-past/?do=findComment&comment=17653998

Saints:

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/722421-you-know-who-else-has-a-rapey-past/?do=findComment&comment=17654073

Saints:

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/705480-for-the-love-of-god-do-not-elect-hilary-clinton-next-election/?do=findComment&comment=18019455

Baloney Sandwich:

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/721079-official-hillary-clinton-2016-thread/?do=findComment&comment=18068694

Saints:

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/705480-for-the-love-of-god-do-not-elect-hilary-clinton-next-election/?do=findComment&comment=18155048

Saints:

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/721079-official-hillary-clinton-2016-thread/?do=findComment&comment=18188976

Saints:

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/721079-official-hillary-clinton-2016-thread/?do=findComment&comment=18343315

Saints:

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/721079-official-hillary-clinton-2016-thread/?do=findComment&comment=18366758

Saints:

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/721079-official-hillary-clinton-2016-thread/?do=findComment&comment=18426716

Here are the search results after Trump was the nominee:

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/search/?&q=Epstein&type=forums_topic&search_and_or=or&start_after=1083369600&start_before=1514764800

This begs 2 questions:

1. Saints, what happened to you? Did someone get to you or your family?

2. Where were the rest of you (specifically Henry Ford, Sheriff Bart, Koya, PlasmaDog, Slapdash,  Football Freak, Snitwich, Ham,  msommner) when this was all going down? Didn't frequent the boards? Didn't care about pedophilia and sex trafficking until it suited your political agenda?
Well a lot of this was done in secret, and evidence is just beginning to be unsealed and brought to light. This info has been buried, ie covered up, for years. It is coming out now, and it happens that trump is now president and appears once again to have a lot of coincidences lining up. He’s just always in the wrong place at the wrong time. 

 
Well a lot of this was done in secret, and evidence is just beginning to be unsealed and brought to light. This info has been buried, ie covered up, for years. It is coming out now, and it happens that trump is now president and appears once again to have a lot of coincidences lining up. He’s just always in the wrong place at the wrong time. 
Surrounded by the best people, as well....

 
Well a lot of this was done in secret, and evidence is just beginning to be unsealed and brought to light. This info has been buried, ie covered up, for years. It is coming out now, and it happens that trump is now president and appears once again to have a lot of coincidences lining up. He’s just always in the wrong place at the wrong time. 
It also look pretty bad when a court filing has trump and Epstein linked together as well. @Bozeman Bruiser you are accusing a lot of people here of partisanship in an attempt to deflect from trumps possible involvement. No one cared before, you only care now because of trump, is the accusation. So what was your screen name then? Where were you? Why didn’t you care more? Let me guess, it wasn’t on your radar because there wasn’t a big story about all the unsealed materials. 

Its easy to pick out posts by @SaintsInDome2006 and @Henry Fordbecause they own what they say and don’t hide behind multiple accounts. They have integrity, and whether you agree with them or not you should recognize that. 

 
I think Kevin Spacey was on Epstein island a few times.  Looks like he's getting ready to skate.  Pretty soon Harvey Weinstein will be making movies again.  These rich people with connections can evidently get away with pedophilia.  It's sick.
I can’t believe the turn the Spacey case took yesterday. Him walking on this case has nothing to do with money , it’s a lack of evidence 

 
I admit that I'm really here because I hate Trump.  I dont post in political threads that often.  But, Trump is so bad for this country, so blatantly corrupt, and such a terrible person that I'm inspired to follow news related.

Trump had inspired me to follow politics more closely.

And don't say I'm corrupted by consuming MSM.  I can think for myself, thank yo very much.  Further, I do watch Fox News fairly regularly, and I listen to Rush when I can.  I consume as much right wing media as I do center/left.

 
This is how you know SID isn't a partisan hack.  All he wants is justice and our government to do the right thing.  It's really curious that you assume everyone's behaviour is always tribal.
Not that curious. It is how he views things through his own lens, so he naturally assumes that all others do the same, though perhaps from the opposite direction. 

 
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I admit that I'm really here because I hate Trump.  I dont post in political threads that often.  But, Trump is so bad for this country, so blatantly corrupt, and such a terrible person that I'm inspired to follow news related.
I agree that Trump is a horrible person but even if he was involved with Epstein he is not going down over this.   The man has too much power and there are too many people in high positions that will assist in the cover up that any evidence there is will either be eliminated to skewed to where nothing can be proven.

I have no idea if Trump was having sex with underage girls but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that he was.  I just don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell that he'll ever face any repercussions for it.  The man is Teflon and if you think this is the thing that will take him down you're gonna be disappointed.

 
I admit that I'm really here because I hate Trump.  I dont post in political threads that often.  But, Trump is so bad for this country, so blatantly corrupt, and such a terrible person that I'm inspired to follow news related.

Trump had inspired me to follow politics more closely.

And don't say I'm corrupted by consuming MSM.  I can think for myself, thank yo very much.  Further, I do watch Fox News fairly regularly, and I listen to Rush when I can.  I consume as much right wing media as I do center/left.
:goodposting:

I'm in the exact same boat. I had 8k posts solely in the Shark Pool until now. The only good thing to come from Trump's election is that it woke a lot of us up.

From a morals standpoint, Trump is a reprehensible person.

From a financial standpoint, he's utterly incompetent.

From a negotiations/foreign policy standpoint, he's an absolute joke.

He's set back climate change progress, race relations, our long-term economy, and foreign relations at least a decade. On top of that, he's a national embarrassment. 

 
Hadn't seen this posted yet - In Cringeworthy ‘Senior Moment,’ Epstein’s Attorney Makes Major Mistake During Hearing

In his argument to the court, [Reid] Weingarten reasoned that because Epstein did not force or coerce any of the girls to do things against their will, he should not be charged under sex-trafficking statutes which he claimed were enacted to protect girls from being forcibly raped by “15-20 guys” in a brothel under threat of violence.

Weingarten said that according to the facts, Epstein did not rape anyone, but conceded that Epstein did engage in “maybe a lot of prostitution.”

That prompted Judge Pitman to interject and question Weingarten’s legal reasoning.

“Isn’t it rape if the girls are underage?” Pitman asked.

Weingarten paused for over a second, then in a matter-of-fact tone replied, “well…statutory maybe,” before moving on. The packed gallery responded with a combination of audible laughter and shocked gasps as Epstein’s attorney appeared to be admitting his client had committed rape.

...

Before the proceeding came to an official close, however, Weingarten addressed his gaffe, telling Pitman his reference to statutory rape was a “senior moment,” insisting Epstein had not committed statutory rape because there was “no penetration.”

 
I did the homework...

2. Where were the rest of you (specifically Henry Ford, Sheriff Bart, Koya, PlasmaDog, Slapdash,  Football Freak, Snitwich, Ham,  msommner) when this was all going down? Didn't frequent the boards? Didn't care about pedophilia and sex trafficking until it suited your political agenda?
Ugh. :yucky:  What a repugnant accusation.

 
It's not wrong if Epstein didn't enjoy it.  No climax, no sin.  If the glove fits, you must acquits.  The doors weren't locked, they could leave anytime they wanted to.  It's not prostitution, they just gave gifts of affection to the females because they liked them.

In a world where fictions seem to be ruling the day in our government, lead by our president and his administration, the main sanity check remains to be our judicial system.  It's hard to overstate how important an independent judiciary is for our country, and why politicians of any stripes attempting to stack the courts with partisans is incredibly dangerous to the continued functionality of our government.

 
Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi both demanding that Acosta resign. Schumer also asking Trump to “account for his relationship with Epstein. I don’t recall is not an acceptable answer.” 

 
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I agree that Trump is a horrible person but even if he was involved with Epstein he is not going down over this.   The man has too much power and there are too many people in high positions that will assist in the cover up that any evidence there is will either be eliminated to skewed to where nothing can be proven.

I have no idea if Trump was having sex with underage girls but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that he was.  I just don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell that he'll ever face any repercussions for it.  The man is Teflon and if you think this is the thing that will take him down you're gonna be disappointed.
It seems to me that even if Trump is implicated, he'll just claim that he thought the girls were 18, nobody will be able to provide evidence to the contrary, and his supporters will just continue supporting him at the same fervent rate as ever.

 
It seems to me that even if Trump is implicated, he'll just claim that he thought the girls were 18, nobody will be able to provide evidence to the contrary, and his supporters will just continue supporting him at the same fervent rate as ever.
Nah he won't admit he ever did anything.

 
Agreed but some of these reality show celebrities turned politicians aren't any better
The way to beat this very real problem (career politicians and the influence of big donor money in our politics) is to support electoral reform, not some poorly informed tabloid celebrity who promises simplistic solutions to complex problems. Democrats are almost as much to blame in this regard as Republicans.

 

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