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Jeffrey Epstein: there is definitely nothing to see here folks, I am feeling very sleepy, I think I'll take a nice nap. (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter ren hoek
- Start date
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I am in theory, though I believe in practice it doesn’t work in a way I can support.
I’m in favor of putting perpetrators of certain crimes to death if that answers the question.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I’m saying that what he’s talking about doesn’t apply to Epstein, who wasn’t on suicide watch, and also the “white smock” thing he describes as a straitjacket isn’t actually a straitjacket (because that wouldn’t be a legal way to keep a prisoner for weeks at a time and would open up huge liability issues) and also I have no idea who this anonymous person is, whether he actually did time in these units, when he did so, or why he believes that a person in a smock wouldn’t be capable of hanging himself, even if that were the case - which it wasn’t because Epstein wasn’t on suicide watch.
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Henry Ford
Footballguy
I think he didn’t have a clock or a watch in his cell, and it’s closer to fifteen. When it happens as it should.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
And even if it were nine, he could quite easily be dead between visits. Especially if, as has been reported, he suffered a cardiac arrest from asphyxiation.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
It’s also possible he didn’t intend to die and suffered cardiac arrest when otherwise a guard would have brought him back from asphyxiation (as allegedly happened a few weeks ago.)
CNBC with more info.
Talks about him being removed from Suicide watch. And about the one piece type smock referenced from the Post article. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/10/prison-experts-shocking-that-jeffrey-epstein-was-taken-off-suicide-watch.html
Talks about him being removed from Suicide watch. And about the one piece type smock referenced from the Post article. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/10/prison-experts-shocking-that-jeffrey-epstein-was-taken-off-suicide-watch.html
Henry Ford
Footballguy
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Henry Ford
Footballguy
This certainly sounds like my understanding of suicide watch in federal prisons.
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D_House
Footballguy
NY Post is probably not a source we should be relying on for information here. Even moreso when they sre referencing the opinion of an anonymous felon.
https://www.adfontesmedia.com/
https://www.adfontesmedia.com/
Henry Ford
Footballguy
In short, it’s certainly possible that Epstein was murdered. However, nothing I’ve seen that is publicly known about the circumstances of his death suggests it.
KCitons
Footballguy
Just out of curiosity, what would some of those things be? And would they be publicly know?
For the record, I don't really care if he's dead. I just think it's a lost opportunity to have a chance to identify others.
Other understanding from a federal facilities warden. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/10/prison-experts-shocking-that-jeffrey-epstein-was-taken-off-suicide-watch.html
“For them to pull him off suicide watch is shocking,” Cameron Lindsay, a former warden who worked at three federal facilities, told NBC News. “For someone this high-profile, with these allegations and this many victims, who has had a suicide attempt in the last few weeks, you can take absolutely no chances. You leave him on suicide watch until he’s out of there.”
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Cameron Lindsay is a very experienced expert in this field, and certainly his views on how things should be run are important. I think given his time at MDC Brooklyn he would also agree that how things should be run and how things are run are quite different.
Possibly. I'm just going off the words he actually said: “For them to pull him off suicide watch is shocking,” Cameron Lindsay, a former warden who worked at three federal facilities, told NBC News. “For someone this high-profile, with these allegations and this many victims, who has had a suicide attempt in the last few weeks, you can take absolutely no chances. You leave him on suicide watch until he’s out of there.”
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
Tabloids never* fabricate. They just find someone willing to say whatever needs to be said. Then it gets printed as an anonymous source.
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D_House
Footballguy
I’m not sure what you mean by ‘this’.
However the CNBC article you posted contradicts a few things that the anonymous convict claimed in the Post piece. And my impression of the NY Post as a NYer is that it is a tabloid, so I don’t think they’re too careful about sourcing.
Most high profile inmate in custody, just off/on suicide watch and instead of people asking how this could possibly happen they are posting crap like "it's possible to hang yourself one foot off the ground" and "you can hang yourself from plumbing". Unbelievable.
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D_House
Footballguy
If you are asking if I think they made up the quotes in this piece, no I don’t think that. The rest of my post above fleshes out my thoughts on the Post.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Yeah, I get that but it’s also shocking that the psychiatrist at MDC was keeping a guy on suicide watch long term to have sex with him the year Lindsay took over MDC.
It’s abnormal to have someone on suicide watch long term these days. Kinda always has been.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Is it? It can happen because this is how our prisons work. They are the largest and also least effective mental health providers in the country.
[scooter]
Footballguy
YOU ANSWERED YOUR OWN QUERY BEFORE YOU EVEN FINISHED THE SENTENCE.
"Instead of people asking a question, they answer it!"
Well, touché then!
YOU ANSWERED YOUR OWN QUERY BEFORE YOU EVEN FINISHED THE SENTENCE.
"Instead of people asking a question, they answer it!"
Well, touché then!
. Yeah, it's almost certainly going to come out that he hanged himself from the plumbing one foot off the ground.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
If it was from the plumbing it was probably from the shower head.
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Most SHU cells, especially federal, have showers because prisoners aren’t allowed out of them and we don’t live in Cool Hand Luke.
The General
Footballguy
snitwitch
Footballguy
good thread arguing against tin foil explanations here: https://twitter.com/CZEdwards/status/1160297568837832704?s=19
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
This really seems like peak "Nobody knows anything but let's jump to some dumb conclusions and/or get these jokes off" internet.
msommer
Footballguy
Van Dyman
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Good talk. Excellent job and a good read for those of us keeping a "wait and see..." attitude about the investigation but who are rip-roaring flummoxed as to how this happened, even though it all seems perfectly within reason. I especially like about how they might take him off of watch and how Henry points out -- like I have -- that you do not lose certain constitutional liberties at their core even once you are convicted. Also, people lie so that they aren't restrained. Seems natural to do so. People also lie so they have time alone to do the deed.
I'm a ball of confusion at this point. It doesn't reek of conspiracy to me, but there were some very, very high profile heavily involved with this guy in word and deed. It doesn't look good for them.
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Snorkelson
Footballguy
While I care about the victims justice, I’m more disappointed that we likely won’t get answers about what this guy does, how he came to be. A creep with as many high powered international ties as he has accumulated when it would seem most people knew enough about him that none of the pedo stuff was really a surprise. Forget blue/red implications, there’s a much farther reach here. Look at the wealth connections between Russia, and guys like Simeon migelovich, the saudis, Israel, the US, I feel like there’s this marketplace that exists outside of what we see. They are all connected, and here’s a guy that connects a lot of them, but operate with more autonomy because they either have a firm hold on power or operate in the fringe shadows (operating in the open sometimes, like Rusal.) Billionaires working with billionaires internationally to do whatever they want. We squabble over red/blue talking points without even realizing that organized crime essentially is operating without borders and that influence is working its way into our political system on both sides.
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Encyclopedia Brown
Footballguy
A question for the legal guys: is it true that the "Non-Disclosure" forms Epstein made all his employees sign are now meaningless, and they can say and tell whatever they want?
rockaction
Footballguy
Do you really believe this or does the tin foil serve the purpose of mocking it? I can't tell.
Also, sometimes are greatest instinctual fears embody themselves in rational thought about connections and conspiracies when there's little to no transparency nor seeming rhyme or reason about people's successes and failures.
It juxtaposes meritocracy with what we have, which doesn't seem to based on merit, per se, but is rather based on certain attitudes, mores, folkways, conventions, existing competition laws, etc.
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Snorkelson
Footballguy
I wouldn’t say it’s a well formulated thesis, more of a hodgepodge of connections I feel exist, but yeah I believe this is the case.
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rockaction
Footballguy
Okay. Thanks for the answer, man. I don't believe it and believe that even their crimes are a natural outgrowth of self-separation and seclusion away from the teeming masses, but I suppose that when you self-select that much and the moral compass of that group goes awry, it goes awry for an awful lot of people.
I think we need to have a discussion about the legality of sleeping with sixteen-eighteen year olds or possessing photography of nudes, etc. It seems very wrong for an age disparity that we're hearing about to exist, but sixteen years old seems to be mature enough to decide these things. I think where the overweening nanny state intrudes, thus we will see the elites break rules otherwise prescribed by the middle class, which includes a whole lot of puritanical folk on both sides of the aisle here. I say this because I don't know the nature of the Epstein crimes, what constitutes the legal use of the word "child," etc. It's all very muddled in this instance.
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IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
The President of the United States came out and accused one of his predecessors of murder, but it's all good because that's just how presidents are these days. This is fine.
rockaction
Footballguy
This is absolutely not fine and borderline unhinged. Like I said last night, this was one of the worst days for the stability of the Republic in a long time, for a lot of reasons.
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Snorkelson
Footballguy
I don’t think this grew out of some sick obsession, I think it’s possible that the whole thing was an influence operation, that’s how he made his money, blackmail and the selling of blackmail materials to people willing to operate outside the normal rules.
rockaction
Footballguy
That is certainly plausible, and a bunch of serious journalists have alluded to it in not-so-subtle ways.
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