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ren hoek

Jeffrey Epstein: there is definitely nothing to see here folks, I am feeling very sleepy, I think I'll take a nice nap.

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14 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

I think Prince Andrew's name has been out there for a while - thus its easy to put back out there.

 

For as big a ring as people have made this out to be - I am more surprised that there are not a longer list of victims, making allegations against a longer list of perpetrators.

Fear is a pretty good way to keep people quiet. Epstein hired people to intimidate witnesses and their families in the initial Florida case. It’s very possible that the aggression may be turned up based on who the victims would implicate. The bigger the fish, the more aggressive they are or the bigger the payoff.

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The guards have lawyers now. Sad since it can  be proved or disproved with videos immediately.

 

Unless.... none of the cameras work. 👌

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7 hours ago, Encyclopedia Brown said:

Dont push those conspiracy theories around here please

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10 hours ago, Biff84 said:

Fear is a pretty good way to keep people quiet. Epstein hired people to intimidate witnesses and their families in the initial Florida case. It’s very possible that the aggression may be turned up based on who the victims would implicate. The bigger the fish, the more aggressive they are or the bigger the payoff.

The women who have come forward publicly have an incredible amount of guts

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7 hours ago, Encyclopedia Brown said:

Nothing to see here. 

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7 hours ago, Encyclopedia Brown said:

>>Among the bones broken in Epstein’s neck was the hyoid bone, which in men is near the Adam’s apple. Such breaks can occur in those who hang themselves, particularly if they are older, according to forensics experts and studies on the subject. But they are more common in victims of homicide by strangulation, the experts said.<<

>>Jonathan L. Arden, president of the National Association of Medical Examiners, said a hyoid can be broken in many circumstances but is more commonly associated with homicidal strangulation than suicidal hanging.

Arden, who was not involved in the Epstein autopsy, said that in general, a finding of a broken hyoid requires pathologists to conduct more extensive investigation. That investigation can include analysis of the location of the noose, how narrow the noose is, and if the body experienced any substantial drop in the course of the hanging.

The age of the deceased is also important, Arden said. The hyoid starts out as three small bones with joint-like connections but hardens during middle age into a U-shape that can break more easily.

“If, hypothetically, the hyoid bone is broken, that would generally raise questions about strangulation, but it is not definitive and does not exclude suicidal hanging,” he said.<<

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So Occam's razor is now on murder, if we're only admitting the autopsy.  

Edited by rockaction

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13 hours ago, Snorkelson said:

Kind of want to call him, to alert him of an upcoming fax.

Had he not died a while ago I would absolutely be onboard with this.

13 hours ago, Max Power said:

I haven't heard a status update on Maxwell since the arrest. She did receive immunity from the 2007 ordeal. 

Seems to be some discussion on what that means for her now after JEs death. If powerful people really are hushing loose ends, it might be in her best interests to cooperate.

As of yesterday, she was located in NE https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jeffrey-epstein-death-ghislaine-maxwell-allegedly-living-mansion-new-england-beach-town/ But I'm guessing she's since fled. She will be brought in and charged, she'll flip and she'll fall on a knife 20 times in prison same as Epstein. I keep going back to it but Epstein's Little Black book contains enough names of enough powerful elites that I doubt there is ever a trial.

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1 hour ago, rockaction said:

So Occam's razor is now on murder, if we're only admitting the autopsy.  

I do not agree with this.

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The autopsy, to my knowledge, shows no signs of struggle (like skin under the fingernails, bruising on the hands from trying to fend off the attacker, or defensive wounds) and no ancillary bruising or injury other than those caused by hanging, and no finger-mark bruising around the neck as one would find from manual strangulation from disproportionate pressure on the neck one gets from fingers (rather than a sheet.)  The existence of a fractured hyoid bone means you immediately assume he was strangled - which he was.  By himself.  

I hate news reports on science and crime.  This is a great example of both.

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Now, if the full autopsy report shows those other things, my opinion will be different.  But this detail doesn't make murder the simplest explanation by a long shot.

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Pretty cut and dry case imo. The news shouldnt be pushing these conspiracy theories.

They are harmful and dangerous. 

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45 minutes ago, Max Power said:

Pretty cut and dry case imo. The news shouldnt be pushing these conspiracy theories.

They are harmful and dangerous. 

First time in America? Welcome!

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50 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Now, if the full autopsy report shows those other things, my opinion will be different.  But this detail doesn't make murder the simplest explanation by a long shot.

Correct, it could just mean that he did not know where on his person to properly position the noose or that the noose was poorly constructed/tied..

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On 8/14/2019 at 10:50 AM, Henry Ford said:

Now that we know he hung himself from the top bunk (and that there was a top bunk to hang himself from) I think I made the right call. 

Yeah, the autopsy results are really quashing all the conjecture:

Someone helped Epstein

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3 minutes ago, Gawain said:

Yeah, the autopsy results are really quashing all the conjecture:

Someone helped Epstein

Thanks for another New York Post interview with someone who wasn't involved.

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21 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

Correct, it could just mean that he did not know where on his person to properly position the noose or that the noose was poorly constructed/tied..

The research I'm familiar with suggests it's less about position of the knot than it is about physical condition (including age) of the person, relative strength of the item used for hanging, and whether a lot of extra thrashing was probably going on (like someone going into cardiac arrest.)

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Is he still dead?

Edited by identikit

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7 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Depends whom you ask.

For confirmation of Che Guevara death, there were photos of the corpse and DNA confirmation of his remains years later. 

Former President of Peru, Alan Garcia, shot himself in the head before he was going to be arrested, but many Peruvians I know believe he is still alive. 

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5 hours ago, identikit said:

Is he still dead?

His body was released to an "unidentified associate".

Headed to an unmarked grave at an unknown location. 

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5 hours ago, SoBeDad said:

For confirmation of Che Guevara death, there were photos of the corpse and DNA confirmation of his remains years later. 

Former President of Peru, Alan Garcia, shot himself in the head before he was going to be arrested, but many Peruvians I know believe he is still alive. 

Sure, you say that, but Hitler got away to Brazil.

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7 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

The autopsy, to my knowledge, shows no signs of struggle (like skin under the fingernails, bruising on the hands from trying to fend off the attacker, or defensive wounds) and no ancillary bruising or injury other than those caused by hanging, and no finger-mark bruising around the neck as one would find from manual strangulation from disproportionate pressure on the neck one gets from fingers (rather than a sheet.)  The existence of a fractured hyoid bone means you immediately assume he was strangled - which he was.  By himself.  

I hate news reports on science and crime.  This is a great example of both.

Of course not, he was poisoned then had his neck broken.   He also has 7 letters in his last name and his secretary warned him not to go to jail.

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6 hours ago, beer 30 said:

First time in America? Welcome!

Happy to be here.👌

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>>A review of published stories found only one such death in the past 21 years, the 1998 suicide of South Philadelphia drug kingpin Louis Turra, who reportedly hanged himself.<<

NYPost

Ok so this is the NYPost, and while I do think the Post is a right wing tabloid I do think they have occasionally neat scoop when it comes to NYC sources (and that’s all they’re good for).

- I’m just curious if this gets corroborates anywhere.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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Prison Guard: "Hey Jeff, just checking on you. Ooops, I dropped my rope already fashioned into a noose. I don't have time to pick that up right now, but I will be back in two---three hours to retrieve it."  

 

 

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5 hours ago, Max Power said:

Wasnt it a bed sheet?

Yet another reason to go to paper sheets in prisons

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56 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

WaPo article fuels Epstein conspiracies, but experts say evidence paper presented consistent with suicide

- Actually upon further review the autopsy results are totally consistent with suicide.

Exactly, I know the media is trying to foment the conspiracy stuff but dude hung himself. Complete incompetency by the guards and certainly seems like there were decisions made that lead down a path to this inevitable conclusion but nobody killed Jefferey Epstein accept Jefferey Epstein. 

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5 hours ago, msommer said:

Yet another reason to go to paper sheets in prisons

Then he could have killed himself by paper cuts

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1 hour ago, beer 30 said:

Exactly, I know the media is trying to foment the conspiracy stuff but dude hung himself. Complete incompetency by the guards and certainly seems like there were decisions made that lead down a path to this inevitable conclusion but nobody killed Jefferey Epstein accept Jefferey Epstein. 

And some people around here still want more govt run programs. Blows my mind. 

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2 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

WaPo article fuels Epstein conspiracies, but experts say evidence paper presented consistent with suicide

- Actually upon further review the autopsy results are totally consistent with suicide.

Just want to make sure what we are saying here.  To me, "consistent with suicide" means, "it totally could have been suicide."  Not, "it couldn't have been homicide."

Subtle difference, I know.  But want to throw it out there. 

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1 hour ago, Max Power said:

And some people around here still want more govt run programs. Blows my mind. 

Private run prisons are models of efficiency and professionalism. Riiiiiiiiight. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Jackstraw said:

Private run prisons are models of efficiency and professionalism. Riiiiiiiiight.

There was a judge, back a few years ago, that was found deliberately incorrectly sentencing patients to stints in a private prison he owned a stake in.

It was the argument against private prisons in a nutshell.

Edited by rockaction
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Apparently Hillary sent him a young girl to sex up. This is almost too wild to beleive but Forbes seems pretty legit. 

God it must be awesome to be rich and white. 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardbehar/2019/08/15/jeffrey-epstein-spent-time-alone-with-young-female-prison-visitor/#7c33c2ab185b

The day after he was taken off suicide watch, disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein spent at least two hours locked up alone with a young woman, in a private room reserved for inmates and their attorneys, according to an attorney who was visiting the prison that day. 

"The optics were startling. Because she was young. And pretty,” said the visiting attorney, who asked that his name not be used because he didn’t want to create friction with the prison administration. He speculated the woman could be a lawyer—NBC News has reportedthat Epstein paid members of his team to sit with him in a room for eight hours a day for attorney-client meetings, allowing him to avoid his cell. 

The visiting attorney went to the Manhattan Correctional Center on July 30, a day after Epstein was reportedly taken off suicide watch and transferred into the Special Housing Unit (SHU). During the hours the visiting attorney was present, it wasn’t Epstein’s main lawyer, Reid Weingarten, or other named attorneys who visited him. 

“If I was him, I would have hired... an old bald guy,” said the lawyer, who said the young woman was in there with Epstein for at least two hours when he was there. He also pointed out that the room is locked when prisoners go in, after their handcuffs are removed, and unlocked only when prisoners leave and handcuffs are put back on.

Weingarten and other attorneys representing Epstein have not responded to requests for comment by Forbes. 

Epstein’s daily occupation of the room in the SHU was a sore point for attorneys trying to visit their clients. Instead of waiting 15 minutes for a room, the wait could stretch for two hours, as it was that day. “They wouldn't move anybody until he got where he was going, which is what they used to do with El Chapo, too,” the visiting attorney said. There are 12 attorney visiting rooms at MCC, but only two are for attorneys visiting SHU clients. That means Epstein was monopolizing a scarce resource. 

It was unusual because “you meet with your lawyers as needed,” the attorney said. He added that it would be difficult for any other lawyer to monopolize an interview room every day if the lawyer didn’t have eight hours of work to do with a client. And in the visiting attorney’s experience, based on the early stages of Epstein’s case, he definitely wouldn’t need that much time every day with his lawyers. MCC has not returned calls about Epstein’s apparent access to the interview room. 

David Patton, executive director of the Federal Defenders of New York, a nonprofit that provides low-cost or free legal representation for people, said that spending eight hours a day in the MCC meeting rooms is unusual, and that attorneys typically couldn’t do that. “We don't have the ability to spend that kind of time on a single visit,” Patton said. Mostly, “the waits can be very long and aggravating.”

As for Epstein’s companion, the visiting attorney noted that she didn’t seem to have any files with her. He speculated that she could have been a first-year associate, and that she was dressed casually. “It was slacks and a blouse. ... Could have been jeans or another kind of pants,”  he said. “But, like, Sunday brunch attire.”

The visiting attorney said the treatment reminded him of Epstein’s lifestyle in Florida when he served 13 months on a prostitution charge in a much-criticized plea deal with federal prosecutors. Then, Epstein would leave jail and go to his office on a work release program for  up to 12 hours a day, six days a week. “It sounded to me like a replay of the Florida thing where he got to go to the office … and sit around rather than sit in the cell,” he said.

Using the interview room for so many hours would have a big impact on attorneys waiting to meet their clients, and a big impact on taxpayers, according to Patton. “Eighty percent of all federal defendants are represented by my office, or assigned private attorneys who are paid statutory amounts, and they are sitting there [waiting]. That's just taxpayers dollars ticking off the clock."

It’s understandable why Epstein would want to avoid his cell. Conditions inside MCC are legendarily bad—”miserable,” according to Patton—and Epstein had complained about rodents and bad food, according to multiple reports. At least the SHU meeting room would get him out of his cell. But the 1970s-era facility left a lot to be desired by both inmates and attorneys. Patton said the MCC isn’t as bad as more violent lockups, like Rikers Island. “But it's one of the worst in different respects: Incredibly cramped—the only 'outdoor' recreation is on the rooftop under heavy fencing,” he said.

As for the SHU, where Epstein was kept, Patton said the conditions are even harsher. Inmates are housed in their cells 23 hours a day, and there’s only a tiny window letting in a sliver of natural light. “It's a forbidding physical place to spend time. And it doesn't certainly help in terms of mental health, or people improving their disposition, or getting them prepared to eventually reenter society and be more productive than when they went in,” he said.  

Which is why any inmate would likely prefer to sit in a private room. Epstein, though, could afford to pay lawyers to sit there with him. As for the woman he saw sitting with Epstein, the attorney said, “I think she was there just to babysit him, and keep him out of his cell, and just keep him company for eight hours a day. Which is not supposed to be the way it works."

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3 minutes ago, Jackstraw said:

Apparently Hillary sent him a young girl to sex up. This is almost too wild to beleive but Forbes seems pretty legit.

Why Hillary? I didn't get that from the article. Did I miss it?

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Just now, rockaction said:

Why Hillary? I didn't get that from the article. Did I miss it?

Nah I was just joshin on that but I figure it she could murder him she might as well let him have his death row trim. 

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Just now, Lutherman2112 said:

The "kids for cash" judge was absolutely disgusting.

That was it! That was about as depraved as one can get.

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11 minutes ago, Jackstraw said:

"The optics were startling. Because she was young. And pretty,” said the visiting attorney, who asked that his name not be used because he didn’t want to create friction with the prison administration. 

Aka I dont want to be murdered

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