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ren hoek

Jeffrey Epstein: there is definitely nothing to see here folks, I am feeling very sleepy, I think I'll take a nice nap.

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2 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

About Baden, it sounds like he's a hired gun, albeit a credible one? - The only thing that occurs to me is that maybe the most important factor here is who gets the money if it's an accident and who gets the money if it wasn't and if those are different then that's probably what's driving the Baden theory. Not that that makes him wrong, he could be right.

If it's a murder, an accidental death policy pays out.  If it's suicide, it doesn't.

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1 hour ago, shader said:

Least surprising news ever. Him being killed was always the most likely scenario

There is literally no new information except that an expert hired by his brother/likely beneficiary has said there's some evidence that could point to homicide.  That's the extent of the news.  All of which is evidence already discussed in detail in this thread and by the coroner.

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Assuming there is an actual accidental death policy:

If that's the case, this is the worst expert opinion I can imagine for a case besides "nope, he killed himself" for the person who hired the expert. 

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19 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

If it's a murder, an accidental death policy pays out.  If it's suicide, it doesn't.

Most life insurance policies will cover suicide if it happens two years or later after the policy was issued.

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8 minutes ago, John Blutarsky said:

Most life insurance policies will cover suicide if it happens two years or later after the policy was issued.

Accidental death policies do not.

Edit: for instance, I have a little over a million in life insurance.  But there's another million in accidental death & dismemberment insurance that's much cheaper.  So if I hung myself, it would behoove my wife to contact an expert and hire him to give an opinion that it was murder.

Edited by Henry Ford

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4 hours ago, Mr. Ham said:

What’s happened with the information about his alleged clients that was supposed to be made public?

IIRC the court has set out some sort of schedule to hear demands by third parties that some materials be kept under seal, for instance this one involving a request by Dershowitz.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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On 10/30/2019 at 12:10 PM, Henry Ford said:

Accidental death policies do not.

Edit: for instance, I have a little over a million in life insurance.  But there's another million in accidental death & dismemberment insurance that's much cheaper.  So if I hung myself, it would behoove my wife to contact an expert and hire him to give an opinion that it was murder.

Well, for sure, as no one would believe you could accidentally get that beak into a noose.

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36 minutes ago, Sand said:

Well, for sure, as no one would believe you could accidentally get that beak into a noose.

How did you know I have bird man syndrome? Papa, is that you?

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On 10/30/2019 at 12:10 PM, Henry Ford said:

Accidental death policies do not.

Edit: for instance, I have a little over a million in life insurance.  But there's another million in accidental death & dismemberment insurance that's much cheaper.  So if I hung myself, it would behoove my wife to contact an expert and hire him to give an opinion that it was murder.

I tried to get a million in term life about a year ago.  Apparently I'm in worse shape than I even thought.  Yet most people wouldn't think so if you looked at me. Very fit but sports and fast living have ruined me. What a ride. 

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On 10/30/2019 at 1:10 PM, Henry Ford said:

Accidental death policies do not.

Edit: for instance, I have a little over a million in life insurance.  But there's another million in accidental death & dismemberment insurance that's much cheaper.  So if I hung myself, it would behoove my wife to contact an expert and hire him to give an opinion that it was murder.

Only if she has an alibi  ;)

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So Amy Robach let loose that ABC management killed her Epstein story 3 years ago.  All over the fear from the palace that they would lose access to Will and Kate.

Can executives here get charged with aiding and abetting a child molester?  One can't help but wonder how much more damage was done during those 3 years.  At the very least the whole executive team should get ousted, today.

NBC - quashed Weinstein story

ABC - quashed Epstein story

No moral compass whatsoever in these organizations.  None.

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15 minutes ago, Sand said:

Can executives here get charged with aiding and abetting a child molester?  One can't help but wonder how much more damage was done during those 3 years.  At the very least the whole executive team should get ousted, today.

I agree with your overall point about more accountability at news divisions.  But, have there been allegations of wrongdoing in the last 3 years?  (I don't know the answer - just asking the question without hitting up google).

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Have we at least all agreed that Epstein made his living blackmailing people?

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Really bothers me that this story is losing momentum. More than any travesty of modern politics, this wreaks of the rich getting away with it. By now, dozens of prominent men should be publicly implicated. The fact they are not saddens me. I doubt the SDNY case will go anywhere. Too much money, too many lawyers, and a corpse seem to have sealed the tomb.

Edited by Mr. Ham
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Just now, Mr. Ham said:

By now, dozens of prominent men should be publicly implicated.

Yeah, that’s more or less the way I feel too.  The fact is, the NY justice system scooped up one of the most important witnesses of all time, and now that witness is dead.  

That trial would have been an all-consuming affair, with enormous implications about the way we view power and officialdom.  Those girls would have gotten their day in court.  Instead, it’s just memoryholed away behind the daily palace intrigues.  I just don’t see a real just ending to all this in the future.  

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That project veritas video underscores how brave Julie K Brown’s work was, and how much credit the Miami Herald deserves for pushing back and not backing down from the story.  What kind of world do we live in where a news organization buries that?

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1 hour ago, ren hoek said:

That project veritas video underscores how brave Julie K Brown’s work was, and how much credit the Miami Herald deserves for pushing back and not backing down from the story.  What kind of world do we live in where a news organization buries that?

Propaganda organization. She mentioned Clinton, so of course it got shut down.  I'd love to know what she meant by her comment. 

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7 hours ago, Sand said:

So Amy Robach let loose that ABC management killed her Epstein story 3 years ago.  All over the fear from the palace that they would lose access to Will and Kate.

Can executives here get charged with aiding and abetting a child molester?  One can't help but wonder how much more damage was done during those 3 years.  At the very least the whole executive team should get ousted, today.

NBC - quashed Weinstein story

ABC - quashed Epstein story

No moral compass whatsoever in these organizations.  None.

Color me skeptical that the full story is being told here. If this was such a slam-dunk case, why didn't another media outlet run with it? Surely Fox had known about Epstein and Weinstein for years? Why not run exposés on them every single day, especially during election years?

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38 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Color me skeptical that the full story is being told here. If this was such a slam-dunk case, why didn't another media outlet run with it? Surely Fox had known about Epstein and Weinstein for years? Why not run exposés on them every single day, especially during election years?

Because both Bill and Donnie are connected to him. And both sides of the aisle had powerful people go down in the MeToo movement that followed Weinstein. Thank goodness for the real journalists who finally took on these stories.

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1 minute ago, Biff84 said:
48 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Color me skeptical that the full story is being told here. If this was such a slam-dunk case, why didn't another media outlet run with it? Surely Fox had known about Epstein and Weinstein for years? Why not run exposés on them every single day, especially during election years?

Because both Bill and Donnie are connected to him. And both sides of the aisle had powerful people go down in the MeToo movement that followed Weinstein. Thank goodness for the real journalists who finally took on these stories.

The root of the issue is that American media outlets do not usually publish these types of serious allegations without some kind of corroborating sources -- as Robach herself indicated in the Daily Mail story. The liability factor (for both the media outlet and the victim) just isn't worth it.

It's easy and lazy to pick on network TV news channels, but that's just a side effect of powerful people exploiting the system.

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1 hour ago, [scooter] said:

The root of the issue is that American media outlets do not usually publish these types of serious allegations without some kind of corroborating sources -- as Robach herself indicated in the Daily Mail story. The liability factor (for both the media outlet and the victim) just isn't worth it.

It's easy and lazy to pick on network TV news channels, but that's just a side effect of powerful people exploiting the system.

That depends on whether you believe the spontaneous excited utterance or the subsequent carefully manicured public statement.  I know what I'd tend to believe.

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24 minutes ago, Punxsutawney Phil said:

Isn't James O'Keefe some alt right YouTuber that basically slices together audio?

Yes but she confirmed the incident and explained it was her frustration that they weren’t able to find collaborative sources that would allow them run the story. That of course could just be her following in line with the network.

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I think crap like this happens with our news media more than we would care to think. Our media does not report, they inform the public with what they want us to know. Not trustworthy at all. 

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27 minutes ago, Beef Ravioli said:

I think crap like this happens with our news media more than we would care to think. Our media does not report, they inform the public with what they want us to know. Not trustworthy at all. 

Enemy of the people?

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I've noticed a huge increase in the "Epstein didn't kill himself" memes over the past few weeks.

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The Vicky Ward story already said all this. 

And I think that journalistic politics like weighing a big scoop vs losing access to the Palace is something that goes on all the time. But rarely does it involve something so heinous. Like Ren said thank goodness for Julie Brown.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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43 minutes ago, jamny said:

I've noticed a huge increase in the "Epstein didn't kill himself" memes over the past few weeks.

This probably belongs in Joe's "Unification" thread.

This could be the one thing that unites America.

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11 hours ago, Max Power said:

Have we at least all agreed that Epstein made his living blackmailing people?

The "Victoria's Secret" guy turned over total financial control to Epstein, and it has never been explained why. 

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8 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

The Vicky Ward story already said all this. 

And I think that journalistic politics like weighing a big scoop vs losing access to the Palace is something that goes on all the time. But rarely does it involve something so heinous. Like Ren said thank goodness for Julie Brown.

I would think election year ramifications may have played a role as well.

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10 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

The Vicky Ward story already said all this. 

And I think that journalistic politics like weighing a big scoop vs losing access to the Palace is something that goes on all the time. But rarely does it involve something so heinous. Like Ren said thank goodness for Julie Brown.

If Buckingham Palace is covering up for kiddie fiddler princes, burn them like the Catholic Church 

Edited by msommer
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19 hours ago, ren hoek said:

That project veritas video underscores how brave Julie K Brown’s work was, and how much credit the Miami Herald deserves for pushing back and not backing down from the story.  What kind of world do we live in where a news organization buries that?

This is not new.  NOT NEW....News organizations have been burying stories since there was news.  Protecting big money, politicians, etc.  I believe this to be more the rule than the exception.  It is the one offs, the ones who "buck the system" that we see and thank god for.  But in many cases they are outcasts.  Don't ever ever believe the media is some holy entity...in many cases they are as dirty as everyone else.

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10 hours ago, Beef Ravioli said:

I think crap like this happens with our news media more than we would care to think. Our media does not report, they inform the public with what they want us to know. Not trustworthy at all. 

Shoot.  Should have read this before I posted...but yep..just said the same thing

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And..I still say the British Monarchy should be looked at .  You're talking about an organization with centuries of influence and power.  The Clintons and many billionaires don't have nearly the clout and utter power those people have.  Don't discount that at all.

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Parts of the ABC story that Is like to see explored more deeply:

1. Royal’s actions when confronted about the story, and “threats” referenced on hot mic

2. What did she mean by her assertion ABC had Clinton? Is this the flight logs that are already public, or more?

Edited by Mr. Ham
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10 hours ago, jamny said:

I've noticed a huge increase in the "Epstein didn't kill himself" memes over the past few weeks.

Been noticing this also, all posted by Trump supporters (of people I know),  assume it's to take attention away from impeachment talk.

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44 minutes ago, yak651 said:

Been noticing this also, all posted by Trump supporters (of people I know),  assume it's to take attention away from impeachment talk.

:rolleyes:  I'm seeing it from both sides. 

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So has there been anything definitive regarding it not being suicide, or is that just conspiracy theory talk?

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1 hour ago, yak651 said:

Been noticing this also, all posted by Trump supporters (of people I know),  assume it's to take attention away from impeachment talk.

Oh for the love of God

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2 hours ago, yak651 said:

Been noticing this also, all posted by Trump supporters (of people I know),  assume it's to take attention away from impeachment talk.

I’m a republican but I don’t care who gets “outed” by the Epstein fiasco. Anyone (republican, Democrat, libertarian and independent) involved in that crap needs to go down! 

The news media needs to go down! Hopefully this coming to light will get some of the crap out of that industry! 

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11 hours ago, Encyclopedia Brown said:

The "Victoria's Secret" guy turned over total financial control to Epstein, and it has never been explained why. 

Yep. He made a weak statement and no one wants to press the issue. 

Media is pathetic. 

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1 minute ago, Beef Ravioli said:

I’m a republican but I don’t care who gets “outed” by the Epstein fiasco. Anyone (republican, Democrat, libertarian and independent) involved in that crap needs to go down! 

The news media needs to go down! Hopefully this coming to light will get some of the crap out of that industry! 

This is one time facebook and twitter will keep something alive that should be. 

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1 hour ago, Jayrod said:

So has there been anything definitive regarding it not being suicide, or is that just conspiracy theory talk?

This will be the conspiracy that unites us and may open the floodgates.

If you have a specific question we can answer it here.

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1 hour ago, jamny said:

:rolleyes:  I'm seeing it from both sides. 

Just what i noticed, I seen it posted 4 times and all 4 were from Friends that openly support Trump, but to be fair they post a lot of crazy stuff.

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7 minutes ago, Beef Ravioli said:

I’m a republican but I don’t care who gets “outed” by the Epstein fiasco. Anyone (republican, Democrat, libertarian and independent) involved in that crap needs to go down! 

The news media needs to go down! Hopefully this coming to light will get some of the crap out of that industry! 

I agree 100%!

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5 minutes ago, Max Power said:

This will be the conspiracy that unites us and may open the floodgates.

If you have a specific question we can answer it here.

I'll reiterate his question, which appears to be specific enough: "So has there been anything definitive regarding it not being suicide[?]"

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Just now, Zow said:

I'll reiterate his question, which appears to be specific enough: "So has there been anything definitive regarding it not being suicide[?]"

There is no smoking gun if that is the question. 

I'd equate it to something like a guy knows his wife is cheating on him based on everything he has observed. He hasn't seen her do it and she hasn't admitted it, but all the signs are there. 

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13 hours ago, jamny said:

I've noticed a huge increase in the "Epstein didn't kill himself" memes over the past few weeks.

They are pretty funny. 

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5 minutes ago, Zow said:

I'll reiterate his question, which appears to be specific enough: "So has there been anything definitive regarding it not being suicide[?]"

Of course not.  If there were...the people who did it would suck at their jobs

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