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Darrel Williams RB LSU / KC

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Just now, Cowboysfan8 said:

The poster I quoted wrote ‘bellcow’. I don’t see it 

I know, but I guess it depends on how you define bellcow. My expectation at the start of the season was that Damien would get about 15 touches/game and, due to the nature of the KC offense, had a shot at being a top 10 fantasy back with that volume. 

Would that have made him a bellcow? Would getting half of the RB touches +1 make someone a bellcow? 300 touches minimum? 

I think the demarcation line for bellcow status is a moving target.

 

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8 minutes ago, Chaka said:

I am not sure I get your point. I am 100% certain that every NFL team has complete access to all of the data from these new "Next Gen" stats they are tracking (and touting in commercials).

Is your issue that they are not providing the raw data to the public? Or is it they aren't working, as far as we know, to bring these metrics to the college game?

Both really. I’ve ranted enough about it in this thread though. Guess it’s always surprising to me when a guy like Williams hits >20 mph. It feels like we’re missing a lot. Hunt was the same way. I think he had the most 20+ mph runs his rookie year and he had an average 40 time.

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37 minutes ago, Chaka said:

I know, but I guess it depends on how you define bellcow. My expectation at the start of the season was that Damien would get about 15 touches/game and, due to the nature of the KC offense, had a shot at being a top 10 fantasy back with that volume. 

Would that have made him a bellcow? Would getting half of the RB touches +1 make someone a bellcow? 300 touches minimum? 

I think the demarcation line for bellcow status is a moving target.

 

That’s fair I guess

’bellcows’ to me are rbs that dominate touches out of the backfield wk in and wk out. If anyone expected Damien to be a ‘bellcow’ he would have a first rder in FF imo

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Damien didn't practice and McCoy was limited yesterday.  My guess is that Damien will be out and Darrell will split time with McCoy on Sunday.  Hopefully Darrell continues to shine and starts to separate from the other two.  It would be great to see him be the Kareem Hunt for the second half of the season.

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5 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

That’s fair I guess

’bellcows’ to me are rbs that dominate touches out of the backfield wk in and wk out. If anyone expected Damien to be a ‘bellcow’ he would have a first rder in FF imo

I think most people saw Damien leading the KC backs in touches, he had a mid 2nd round ADP going into the final weekend before the season. I don't think anyone would take him in the first round simply because of the uncertainty surrounding his talent as a 6th year RB who had only been featured for a handful of games and durability.

Regardless, McCoy looks like the only back with a lock on his role right now. And with Damien's absence I think that provides an opportunity for Darrell to shift the depth chart.

I also do like the fact that he is the only RB with the size to beat up on other teams and salt away victories.

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Just now, Chaka said:

. And with Damien's absence I think that provides an opportunity for Darrell to shift the depth chart.

I also do like the fact that he is the only RB with the size to beat up on other teams and salt away victories.

Don’t mistake anything I’ve posted to mean I don’t like Darrel

I bid on and got him in 2/3 leagues Tuesday night

I just don’t think he will dominate carries (bellcow) unless Damien and Shady are ‘out’

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I own Darrel and I think Reid will continue to use McCoy as his starter until the wheels fall off because of his veteran presence and their history together with the Eagles.

Short term, Darrel has flex value if Damien is out.  He is also a high upside handcuff incase McCoy's wheels do fall off.

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Can't really root for Darrel as I was unable to bid any serious dollars for him in a league where I have Damien Williams and McCoy both. I don't wish ill on anybody, but a few Sony Michel-esque performances might be nice. 

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43 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

That’s fair I guess

’bellcows’ to me are rbs that dominate touches out of the backfield wk in and wk out. If anyone expected Damien to be a ‘bellcow’ he would have a first rder in FF imo

I enjoyed that back and forth, it's interesting. Agree that the meaning of bellcow may have shifted a little depending on context. But to me it shouldn't. A bellcow is a 3 down back. A back who is in and involved on both passing and running game -- Fournette, Barkley, etc. Though I can see it being applied to a 2 down back guy like Henry who is simply the only back they use for any run play.

11 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Can't really root for Darrel as I was unable to bid any serious dollars for him in a league where I have Damien Williams and McCoy both. I don't wish ill on anybody, but a few Sony Michel-esque performances might be nice. 

Hey now! Don't pee on the parade here!

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16 minutes ago, steelwind said:

I own Darrel and I think Reid will continue to use McCoy as his starter until the wheels fall off because of his veteran presence and their history together with the Eagles.

Short term, Darrel has flex value if Damien is out.  He is also a high upside handcuff incase McCoy's wheels do fall off.

McCoy has been second amongst KC's RBs in snap% in all three games (29% 41% 38%).  Best I can tell, they'd like to keep him in the 30-40% range.

The question seems to be whether Darrel can take over the ~60% snaps role, or whether that will go back to Damien when (if) healthy.

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3 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

I enjoyed that back and forth, it's interesting. Agree that the meaning of bellcow may have shifted a little depending on context. But to me it shouldn't. A bellcow is a 3 down back. A back who is in and involved on both passing and running game -- Fournette, Barkley, etc. Though I can see it being applied to a 2 down back guy like Henry who is simply the only back they use for any run play.

Hey now! Don't pee on the parade here!

By that definition, KC won't have a bellcow.  Nor will about 25 other teams.  DAL JAX NYJ ARI CLE CAR are about the only ones.

 

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4 minutes ago, davearm said:

By that definition, KC won't have a bellcow.  Nor will about 25 other teams.  DAL JAX NYJ ARI CLE CAR are about the only ones.

 

PIT, NYG, CINCY, MIN

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10 minutes ago, davearm said:

By that definition, KC won't have a bellcow.  Nor will about 25 other teams.  DAL JAX NYJ ARI CLE CAR are about the only ones.

 

 

5 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

PIT, NYG, CINCY, MIN

Yes. Imo these teams have ‘bellcow’ backs

And imo KC won’t have one, I suppose if 2/3 we have been discussing get hurt then it’s possible

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2 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

PIT, NYG, CINCY, MIN

Not really.

Conner's snap%: 46% 54% 68%

Mixon: 38% 54% 57%

Definitely not either of those guys. 

Not NYG without Barkley.

Cook is also sharing a lot of snaps with Mattison and Boone: 68% 72% 60%.

The true bellcows look like this:

D Johnson 87 60 87

Fournette 86 97 100

Bell 100 90 100

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16 minutes ago, davearm said:

Not really.

Conner's snap%: 46% 54% 68%

Mixon: 38% 54% 57%

Definitely not either of those guys. 

Not NYG without Barkley.

Cook is also sharing a lot of snaps with Mattison and Boone: 68% 72% 60%.

The true bellcows look like this:

D Johnson 87 60 87

Fournette 86 97 100

Bell 100 90 100

% of rb Touches, not snap count make a bellcow a bellcow

imo

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Anyone ever pay attention to Andy Reids backfields over the years?  They ALL take injuries through the season because he asks a lot. 
You know when there is a bell cow?  When every one else is injured.  Meaning, I'm saying he has a chance.  

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7 minutes ago, Hairy Snowman said:

Anyone ever pay attention to Andy Reids backfields over the years?  They ALL take injuries through the season because he asks a lot. 
You know when there is a bell cow?  When every one else is injured.  Meaning, I'm saying he has a chance.  

Couldn't agree more. I picked up Darrel in both my leagues. Holding on for as long as possible to see what turns up, I believe he's going to get his chance here soon enough.

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2 hours ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

Don’t mistake anything I’ve posted to mean I don’t like Darrel

I bid on and got him in 2/3 leagues Tuesday night

I just don’t think he will dominate carries (bellcow) unless Damien and Shady are ‘out’

No worries, I never thought that. I drafted Damien (Sat Aug 31st a couple hours before McCoy was released) at 3.9 in my 12 team, super-flex, PPR league and Darwin at 11.9. Someone took a flyer on McCoy in the last round (he hadn't signed with KC yet).

I am very invested in seeing Damien succeed but I absolutely cut bait on Darwin and am glad that I was able to grab Darrell this week.

I would love some more clarity in the KC backfield but as long as Damien does not play, I am probably going with Darrell as my flex.

When they're all healthy? Who the heck knows?

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4 hours ago, Chaka said:

I think most people saw Damien leading the KC backs in touches, he had a mid 2nd round ADP going into the final weekend before the season.

He never had a mid 2nd round ADP at any point this offseason. 

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Damien missed practice again. Woohoo

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Right now everytime Shady is tackled I look to see if he comes up limping. Everyone knows ankle sprains are at a high risk for reaggravation. If nothing else they are going to limit McCoy usage to keep him fresh. 

Darrel is going to see significant snaps as long as Damien is out and if he keep performing like he did last week then Damien may just become an afterthought.  Thompson is just too small for a big role. 

Darrel has RB2/flex value right now. If Shady gets hurt again it will quickly be RB1

 

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1 hour ago, Deamon said:

He never had a mid 2nd round ADP at any point this offseason. 

Sorry "mid-to-late", he had an ADP of 21 on MFL, RTS and FFCalculator in both July and August. 

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:blackdot:

 

Got him for $3 (out of $100 allocated each year) in a dynasty where you don't need to start a RB, but can start up to 4.  Graduated PPR.

I think I got a steal, even if Shady stays healthy this year.

We'll see.

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30 minutes ago, Smack Tripper said:

I feel like we talked ourselves into a frenzy here, so I’m totally ready for 4 carries and 8 yards

Doubtful.

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Shady was a full participant in practice today, while Damien was out. 

👍🏻 for Darrel...as someone else said the touches (12-15) should be there for him to keep Shady fresh. 

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16 minutes ago, Efritch4 said:

Shady was a full participant in practice today, while Damien was out. 

👍🏻 for Darrel...as someone else said the touches (12-15) should be there for him to keep Shady fresh. 

That's a good solid signal. Not as good as Shady dinged, but looks like Darell's in line for some touches if DWill can't practice.

For this week, it's going to be a very hard flex decision between him and some upside receivers (Chark, Metcalf, Sutton). They all seem to have the ability to score around the same fantatsy point level floor, but the variance can be all over the place. 

I am almost thinking that I should start him if only because I have no idea if/when he'll be in a similar situation in future weeks (DWill heals, Shady runs solid and earns more touches, etc.). 

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1 hour ago, Chaka said:

Sorry "mid-to-late", he had an ADP of 21 on MFL, RTS and FFCalculator in both July and August. 

Yeah he went late 2nd in most of the drafts I was in.

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If DWill 1.0 is out then DWill 2.0 will be my RB2 with Bell on bye. Hopefully there’s still some good work leftover after a full practice from Shady. 

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2 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

 (Chark, Metcalf, Sutton). 

I am almost thinking that I should start him if only because I have no idea if/when he'll be in a similar situation in future weeks (DWill heals, Shady runs solid and earns more touches, etc.). 

When in doubt I go with the guy on the best offense.

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2 hours ago, Loipz said:

If DWill 1.0 is out then DWill 2.0 will be my RB2 with Bell on bye. Hopefully there’s still some good work leftover after a full practice from Shady. 

I agree with @davearm, McCoy is on a pitch count. Reid wants McCoy around for the moments of doubt, don't kid yourselves there will be moments of doubt, when he needs the guy he doesn't have to worry about. McCoy is that guy.

If Damien is out, roll with Darrell...but be prepared to witness Darwin put up 12 touches for 178 yards and 3 TDs.

Edited by Chaka
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1 hour ago, Chaka said:

I agree with @davearm, McCoy is on a pitch count. Reid wants McCoy around for the moments of doubt, don't kid yourselves there will be moments of doubt, when he needs the guy he doesn't have to worry about. McCoy is that guy.

If Damien is out, roll with Darrell...but be prepared to witness Darwin put up 12 touches for 178 yards and 3 TDs.

One of these days I’ll nail this backfield. Thus far I’ve been one back late. 

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So if you have Shady and Darrel, who are you starting this week (assuming you can only start one)?

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3 hours ago, LawFitz said:

So if you have Shady and Darrel, who are you starting this week (assuming you can only start one)?

Find a way to start both, unless you have 2 other STUDS.

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8 minutes ago, Deamon said:

Find a way to start both, unless you have 2 other STUDS.

Zeke and Josh Jacobs will do.

Going with Shady over Darrel

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2 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Zeke and Josh Jacobs will do.

Going with Shady over Darrel

Don't think it would be crazy to flex Darrel over Jacobs in that situation.  If I was favoured and needed safe, high floor RB production, I'd start them both.  KC Backfield probably a lock to get 20+ points in standard.  Would hate to pick the wrong one.

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Just now, Deamon said:

Don't think it would be crazy to flex Darrel over Jacobs in that situation.  If I was favoured and needed safe, high floor RB production, I'd start them both.  KC Backfield probably a lock to get 20+ points in standard.  Would hate to pick the wrong one.

I need to make up for -1 tonight and a serious disadvantage anyway. That exact thought crossed my mind, though, so we're on the same page. I need for one of the backs to shoot the moon and leave the other holding the bag. And I need the right one to do it.

Shady.

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5 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I need to make up for -1 tonight and a serious disadvantage anyway. That exact thought crossed my mind, though, so we're on the same page. I need for one of the backs to shoot the moon and leave the other holding the bag. And I need the right one to do it.

Shady.

I think Darrel is the guy but that's just my opinion.  Even if you start both though and one of them gets you 5 points, you know the other one put up big points for you. 

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Just now, Deamon said:

I think Darrel is the guy but that's just my opinion.  Even if you start both though and one of them gets you 5 points, you know the other one put up big points for you. 

Heh, I knew you were going Darrel for some reason, hence my insistence to the contrary. And you're likely right because Shady is more likely to reinjure his ankle and have to leave.

We'll see.

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Just now, rockaction said:

Heh, I knew you were going Darrel for some reason, hence my insistence to the contrary. And you're likely right because Shady is more likely to reinjure his ankle and have to leave.

We'll see.

I think Shady will be eased in.  And if KC has a big lead, that's when Darrel will get more touches than Mccoy, and also when the team is going to be running the ball more anyways (maybe not though with Mahomes back there).  I guess McCoy could have a bigger game for sure if it's a tight game, but I think Mahomes will be bombing it in a game like that.

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9 minutes ago, Deamon said:

I think Shady will be eased in.  And if KC has a big lead, that's when Darrel will get more touches than Mccoy, and also when the team is going to be running the ball more anyways (maybe not though with Mahomes back there).  I guess McCoy could have a bigger game for sure if it's a tight game, but I think Mahomes will be bombing it in a game like that.

Fair enough.Thanks for the thoughtful input. I'm definitely keeping it mind. 

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1 hour ago, Deamon said:

I think Shady will be eased in.  And if KC has a big lead, that's when Darrel will get more touches than Mccoy, and also when the team is going to be running the ball more anyways (maybe not though with Mahomes back there).  I guess McCoy could have a bigger game for sure if it's a tight game, but I think Mahomes will be bombing it in a game like that.

Obviously KC has the ability to to create a big lead but Vegas only has this as a six point game.

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I rolled the dice on Darrel becoming the man here, actually passed on Damien in favor of him. Not really make-or-break for my team but let's see how it plays out!

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On 9/26/2019 at 10:44 AM, Cowboysfan8 said:

That’s fair I guess

’bellcows’ to me are rbs that dominate touches out of the backfield wk in and wk out. If anyone expected Damien to be a ‘bellcow’ he would have a first rder in FF imo

This is what I think as well. Historically, bellcows have been 20+ touches a game. 20 has always been the threshold. Making adjustments for today's game in the era of passing, I would only slightly lower that to 18+ touches.

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I own carson and even though it's AZ i am doubtful about starting him. But my decisions have been all wrong this season, so he's probably a lock for 19/132/3TD

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11 minutes ago, Judge Smails said:

Playing Zeke and Lindsay. Now with this news need to decide Shady or Carson.   Ughh

Shady @ Det and Carson @ Ari are both juicy matchups. Hard to second guess starting either, unless new pregame info becomes available. KC - DET should be higher scoring.

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