The Captain
Footballguy
Lions might be the remedyIlov80s said:
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RB David Montgomery, DET (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
ahartig
Footballguy
I thought that two weeks ago, ugh. Really hoping for a good game... been a wicked slide from 6-1 to 6-6....Lions might be the remedy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
RBM
Footballguy
Like Trubisky and the D the fall of the o-line has been a total shock. They are not built to be a physical run blocking unit but I’m stunned at how bad it’s been. Because of this I’m having a hard time properly evaluating Montgomery. I do like how he fights for every inch he can.
RBM
Footballguy
Yes even for me who is on record hating the pick since draft night. He surprised me last year with the signs he showed. Accuracy was improving, was making some clutch throws, the scrambling. Figured it would just get better in the second year with Nagy.
Don Hutson
Footballguy
He is often getting swarmed by a gaggle of defenders. He will break a tackle and then immediately get hit by another defender. And then another. The Bears offensive line is horrible. No running back short of Barry Sanders could be effective. Tarik Cohen is averaging 3.2 ypc. Mike Davis averaged 2.3 ypc. I actually think Montgomery has passed the eye test.
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RBM
Footballguy
He gets blasted in the backfield on like at least half his runs. Like guys unblocked just devouring him.
He's always been an average RB. But people loved his broken tackle rate...but at some point broken tackles have to lead to more yards versus playing dance, dance revolution.
"It was his OL at Iowa State"
"It's his OL at Chicago"
What if it's just him...
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Almost every team in the league has O-line issues of some sort. It's all fans and media talk about and it's a convenient thing to mention because hardly anyone really understands offensive line play so it sounds smart/educated to mention it as a problem, while usually signifying nothing.You’re not going to find that out until he has an average OL
Every year there are about 5 teams with good to above average offensive lines and the rest are mediocre or bad. It's actually rare for any RB to consistently play behind a good or even average line so it shouldn't really be used as too much of an excuse for crappy production. Of course it makes an impact on what any RB can realistically do, but we seem to use it to excuse certain players and not others. For some reason there is this desire for Montgomery to be really good - probably because he was once seen as the best RB prospect in his class and even last year there was a lot of hype on him post-draft so people want to be right.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
I’m going to assume people want to be right because they’re invested in him. Like any investment you want to give it some time. With that said, do you think 11 games is enough time? Do you think the Bears could get better OL play in the future? Do you think Montgomery can get better?
his film isn't good. I think his OL isn't helping the situation, but he's never going to be a great FF asset(what some hyped him up to be).
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
I wasn’t his biggest fan but this seems irrational after a small sample size.
You sound like you watch a lot of Bears games and admittedly I do not so I’ll defer to you. Who’s tape on that offense looks good?
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I'm biased both ways actually. As a someone who was against Montgomery due to his college tape and as a Bears fan....very unhappy about the pick....and the Riley Ridley pick...but I digress.
Montgomery's college and NFL film show the same player with big flaws in approach to the LOS, hesitation, lack of aggressiveness hitting a hole, and bouncing to the outside. His lack of athletic ability is more evident in the NFL as well. He needs to evolve his game to be more physical and less dancing. He's essentially trying to be Lev Bell(early in his career) or Barkley without the same athletic ability.
The only player that didn't regress on that entire offense from last season is Allen Robinson. Cody Whitehair would be a close second, but the rest is just an epic failure. From the other 4 OL, Trey Burton not being the same since mid season last year, to Anthony Miller(better as of late), Trubisky, and finally Matt Nagy. Confidence was there last year(especially middle of the season)...then Trubisky hurt his shoulder and they got conservative and have never recovered.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Thanks for the insight. He’s a guy along with Ronald Jone and Guice I’m trying to grab cheap in dynasty and keeper leagues. Their offense has been just so bad that I couldn’t get an accurate read if it was the player or the offense/coaching.
Time for Nagy to dial up 50-60 pass plays. Detroit will never see it coming.
Benching Montgomery against the rushing sieve that is the Lions for Snell.
Hope I'm wrong so I'll at least be able to muster some confidence in starting Monty in Weeks 15/16 against the Packers/Chiefs.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Wasn't a sieve a couple weeks ago when Monty had 17 for 60. I am backing off Monty...I tried to rev the engines up for him but I just don't see it.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Interesting thought- the poison pill. My RB2 spot is still pretty shaky so I need to hold just because in a jam, at least I know he will get the ball 15 times and could score.
Don Hutson
Footballguy
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Thought he looked good today and showed a lot of patience, moves and tackle breaking ability.
Man In The Box
Footballguy
He should be used much more in the passing game. He runs routes well and catches everything.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
He had some nice runs called back on penalties as well. One of them was a key block on Fuller, but the other ones were not really the reason for the good run that I could tell.
He had some blocking to work with at times.
The Captain
Footballguy
pedestrian
The Frankman
Footballguy
LOL no Rotoworld.
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Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Another week he’s looked good
The Frankman
Footballguy
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The Frankman
Footballguy
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jm192
Footballguy
He got 20 carries 4 times last year. In those 4 games, he had 91 carries for 387 yards (4.25 ypc) and 2 TD's .
That's 96.75 yards per game and 0.5 TD's.
He needs the volume. The bears need to not suck. Foles will help with that. Chicago gave up the 4th fewest points per game last year. I think with a competent QB, we're going to see more positive game scripts. He should be a lot better.
I think a line similar to what Mixon did this past year is pretty reasonable, ~1100 yards rushing, 250-300 yards receiving, ~8 Total Td's.
That's 96.75 yards per game and 0.5 TD's.
He needs the volume. The bears need to not suck. Foles will help with that. Chicago gave up the 4th fewest points per game last year. I think with a competent QB, we're going to see more positive game scripts. He should be a lot better.
I think a line similar to what Mixon did this past year is pretty reasonable, ~1100 yards rushing, 250-300 yards receiving, ~8 Total Td's.
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
I'd guess that 4.25 ypc in a rbs 4 best games is pretty abysmal.jm192 said:
Longtucky Lemmings
Footballguy
Fixed your post.jm192 said:
There's a lot of if's here for a guy who seems to be a fairly mediocre talent. IF the Bears offense magically improves and IF the QB play is better (because Trubisky suddenly gets better or Foles wins out and isn't the Jacksonville version)....and IF their defense doesn't decline in points given up....and IF Montgomery gets close to 20 touches a game.....and IF he plays "up to" his best 4 games last season.....
Then he *might* hit Mixon 2019 numbers.
I agree it's possible. But man, I think there are better RBs to pin all those hopes and dreams on this coming season.
Anyone who responds to this thread based on his numbers and not watching the Bears last year has no idea how bad the Bears line and how bad their running scheme was last year. There are many RBs who need carries and to get into a rhythm to be effective and the Bears didn't try to run the ball consistently last year. Defenses could stack the box and dare Mitch to beat them. Nagy is too pass happy and they did not try to establish the run most games.
IMHO - It is way too early to judge Montgomery because he was a rookie, the O line got pushed back on the majority of plays, and the play calling was terrible.
I agree with Lemming about the touches but don't agree with the mediocre talent assessment yet. IF the line and play calling improve then I can easily see a top 15 back or low end top 10 back because, barring injury, he will be the lead back.
IMHO - It is way too early to judge Montgomery because he was a rookie, the O line got pushed back on the majority of plays, and the play calling was terrible.
I agree with Lemming about the touches but don't agree with the mediocre talent assessment yet. IF the line and play calling improve then I can easily see a top 15 back or low end top 10 back because, barring injury, he will be the lead back.
I watched Bears games last year, even went to one, and think the numbers represent what he is, a mediocre talent.
Yeah sure every RB needs carries to get into a rhythm but it's hard to sustain drives when the run game is not producing. Montgomery got the 13th most carries in the league on first and second down and all 12 of the RB's who got more then him had a higher YPC and only other one under 4 was Michel. About the same if you just isolate this to first down, Montgomery got 12th most carries, all 11 over him did better in YPC and only he and Michel were under 4 YPC. Even a guy like Fournette who everyone bags on for not being efficient and was facing way more stacked boxes then Montgomery was over 4.5 on first and second down. If you want to sustain a running game you got to do better running the ball on first and second down.
He faced 8 or more in the box on just under 20% of his carries. That's not an overly high number especially for someone who rarely played on third down. Sony Michel for example, the only guy in his range/workload production faced stack boxes on 33% of his carries.
Volume is actually the best think he has going for him IMO, any RB getting the volume he got last year should be considered a candidate to be a top 15 RB even if the receptions were on the low side.
rschroeder1
Footballguy
Like you, I suffer the misfortune of being a Bears fan, but at least I didn't have to go to a game last year
.I honestly don't know what to think about Montgomery. I think you bring up a lot of good points in your analysis, and I can't really argue with your logic.
Last year, Montgomery looked hesitant to me. He didn't hit the hole hard as it seemed like it took him some time to identify the running lane. That being said, the Bears line was abysmal, so I can't place all the blame on him.
I don't want this to sound like an excuse or a copout, but part of me wonders if Montgomery was struggling to figure out what exactly his role was on the 2019 Bears. Coming out of college, the analysis of Montgomery was potential as a three down player, a player who can be used in the passing game. Ostensibly, he was drafted because he fit the Nagy offense. One would have to believe (but it is the Bears) that Nagy was part of the decision to draft Montgomery. And yet, he was used fairly predictably, barely involved in the passing game, not in the way you would envision a running back in the prototypical Nagy offense.
I'm not sure what that means for 2020. Hard to trust him, and Nagy, unfortunately.
