cloppbeast
Footballguy
I was like, "Damn, Henderson can make some great moves. Wait a minute...."The guy in these vids that actually ran with forward lean and made a sharpe cut was Miles Sanders.
I was like, "Damn, Henderson can make some great moves. Wait a minute...."The guy in these vids that actually ran with forward lean and made a sharpe cut was Miles Sanders.
Of course it is. I like it. Can't wait until he duplicates one because BAM I am coming for himNo way. Schtick right?
I'm sure hes using a spreadsheet to keep track.Of course it is. I like it. Can't wait until he duplicates one because BAM I am coming for him
You could start with actual clip of Henderson, not Miles Sanders. And not a highlight video either.
You could also make reasoned reply so we could have a discussion. Instead of, you know, normal Bronco Billy stuff.
It's a highlight video.Now, how does that affect the evidence contained in the second link?
He averaged 8.9 ypc for two years straight. His career was a highlight video.It's a highlight video.
It's a highlight video.
I'm actually glad you mistakenly posted the Sanders clip. If you compare Miles' lateral movement in that vid (and many others of him) to the highlight vid you posted of Declan, you'll see a big difference. One guy leans forward and cuts sharply, the other doesn't. Now this didn't stop Henderson from making huge plays in the ACC, but it's a red flag for me as he enters the NFL. Watch clips of Alex Collins and you'll see a very similar issue. It doesn't mean guys like this can't be successful, but they are not special, especially if the straight line speed proves to be less impactful in the NFL (hint: it likely will).Watch closely. This is how you admit that you were mistaken:
Crap, sorry, midposted first link. That’s my bad.
Now, how does that affect the evidence contained in the second link?
Feature back is a loose term for FF. Could Henderson have some value? Sure (moreso in PPR).Prior to 2019, was Kamara a feature back?
What about Miles Sanders being drafted top 4, playing on a team that has never used a feature back?
Or Montgomery going to a team with a passing back in Cohen?
What percent of carries did Dalvin Cook get in 2018?
Is Sony Michel really a "feature back?" He was drafted to be by his owners much higher than Henderson is going.
How did CJ Anderson do as a COP with Gurley?
Point is, you can be a hot comodity in fantasy and not be a "feature back."
You didnt answer any of my questions.Feature back is a loose term for FF. Could Henderson have some value? Sure (moreso in PPR).
Will he be worth the price many are paying? That's a big fat no, IMO. Henderson is highly unlikely to ever be a long-term feature back given his skill set.
That said, I get trying to cuff him to Gurley for the right price. The weak class makes it easier to do that without sacrificing a lot of value.
LOL. Yes, I like Michel a LOT more than Henderson. Not even close.You didnt answer any of my questions.
Do you think Sony Michel is worth 1.1? because according to dynasty trade calculator, that's the price it takes to land him. And his owners paid a higher price than most Henderson owners (pick 1.2-1.4 depending on your league)
IMO Sony Michel is in a greater timeshare situation than Henderson, and I'd argue Henderson has a higher ceiling.
Point, again, is that you dont need to be a "long term feature back" by football Jones' standards to be a legitimate fantasy threat
Most everyone in the 1st round of this draft isnt worth where they are being drafted at.LOL. Yes, I like Michel a LOT more than Henderson. Not even close.
What I'm essentially telling you is Henderson won't be a long-term feature back OR be worth what many people are drafting him at.
Also, Henderson has a MUCH lower ceiling than Sony, IMO. Sony has feature back skills, thus, has the potential to be a long-term feature back.
Ok, so we are back to your subjective methods, nothing objective. That clarifies it.LOL. Yes, I like Michel a LOT more than Henderson. Not even close.
What I'm essentially telling you is Henderson won't be a long-term feature back OR be worth what many people are drafting him at.
Also, Henderson has a MUCH lower ceiling than Sony, IMO. Sony has feature back skills, thus, has the potential to be a long-term feature back.
You have a point.Most everyone in the 1st round of this draft isnt worth where they are being drafted at.
Come on, Dan. LOL. My "subjective formula" is mostly me not liking Henderson at anywhere near his ADP. Also, YOU are subjectively comparing Henderson to Sony (a RB who has already produced). Evaluating players is subjective, period.Ok, so we are back to your subjective methods, nothing objective. That clarifies it.
To summarize: I was talking Objectively by demonstrating several examples of guys who arent featured backs, but have shown to be very valuable in fantasy, and there doesnt seem to be a reason, as far as opportunity goes, why Henderson cant be that. You were countering with a Subjective opinion that Henderson doesn't fit your mythological formula so he cant be valuable.
Which, if true, means they're all worth where they're being drafted. If nobody is special then everybody is special. Other than to say I'd rather flip them for 2020 picks. And may still. But I was not able to achieve that leading up to or during this year's rookie draft. So if nobody is worth the pick, and if the pick can't be moved, then I suppose it comes down to a personal BPA decision. I am admittedly more on the "drafting for team needs" end of the spectrum, so reaching for a coveted RB seems normal to me, but I do think there is a threshold between reaching too far and losing value by not picking someone that is more chalk. Like Hockenson perhaps.Most everyone in the 1st round of this draft isnt worth where they are being drafted at.
Sony shares time with James White, and presumably now with Harris. There are more mouths to feed in NE than LA.Come on, Dan. LOL. My "subjective formula" is mostly me not liking Henderson at anywhere near his ADP. Also, YOU are subjectively comparing Henderson to Sony (a RB who has already produced). Evaluating players is subjective, period.
And how is Sony not a feature back by FF standards? He is. You're trying to get into semantics.
Bottom line is I'm confident in my evaluation. To be fairly specific, Henderson could have decent FF value depending on several factors (Gurley's availability, format, etc.), but he won't be a long-term "feature back/high usage" RB or whatever you want to call it. Henderson's FF ceiling is limited, IMO. He could very well be a better NFL player than FF asset (long-term).
I think most people prefer Sony by quite a bit, but I digress.Sony shares time with James White, and presumably now with Harris. There are more mouths to feed in NE than LA.
If Sony Michel shares the backfield with 3 other RBs his entire career, hes not a featured back, no matter how much "potential" he has to be one. IMO, side bar, Michels knee is worse than Gurleys and NE is hedging their bet at RB with Harris.
I pull his name out because he would cost the 1.1 in this draft to trade for. That's a bigger investment than Henderson with more mouths to feed and legitimate knee concerns. Yet that's worth the price I guess
Those guys are making a huge mistake. Sony has a very short career ahead of him, or a long career as a 8-10 carry a game guy. But maybe that's saved for the Michel thread if anyone cares to hear what I have to say regarding his knee. Just see Jay Ajayi, and that's Michels ceiling IMO, largely due to his knee. Talent alone he had big potentialI think most people prefer Sony by quite a bit, but I digress.
For me, even with the knee concern, Sony's potential to be a long-term feature back overrides Henderson's limited ceiling.Those guys are making a huge mistake. Sony has a very short career ahead of him, or a long career as a 8-10 carry a game guy. But maybe that's saved for the Michel thread if anyone cares to hear what I have to say regarding his knee. Just see Jay Ajayi, and that's Michels ceiling IMO, largely due to his knee. Talent alone he had big potential
BTW, what kind of info you got on Sony's knee?Those guys are making a huge mistake. Sony has a very short career ahead of him, or a long career as a 8-10 carry a game guy. But maybe that's saved for the Michel thread if anyone cares to hear what I have to say regarding his knee. Just see Jay Ajayi, and that's Michels ceiling IMO, largely due to his knee. Talent alone he had big potential
Correct. But I think very few people are talking about taking Henderson over the top 5-6 in this draft.Which, if true, means they're all worth where they're being drafted. If nobody is special then everybody is special. Other than to say I'd rather flip them for 2020 picks. And may still. But I was not able to achieve that leading up to or during this year's rookie draft. So if nobody is worth the pick, and if the pick can't be moved, then I suppose it comes down to a personal BPA decision. I am admittedly more on the "drafting for team needs" end of the spectrum, so reaching for a coveted RB seems normal to me, but I do think there is a threshold between reaching too far and losing value by not picking someone that is more chalk. Like Hockenson perhaps.
Correct.He averaged 8.9 ypc for two years straight. His career was a highlight video.
why do you say thisA good comparison popped in my head. His skillset reminds me a lot of Tevin Coleman.
Agree, disagree?
Whole lotta myopic analysis in this thread. Devery wouldn't be even close to the first college RB with gaudy YPC to do little or nothing in the NFL, if he were to bust.Correct.
At least one other person in this forum has watched Henderson in college.
A whole lotta wrong in this thread.
No, but Kerryon does and I still like him a lot but I'm also worried he can stay healthy.Does Henderson have tiny chicken legs like mcfadden?
He does it while upright and keeps his speed.
It makes no sense.I totally don't understand the "lack of ceiling" talk. Is Kamara not a high ceiling? What am I missing?
You can sell me on low floor as a cop back...
Henderson is...A good comparison popped in my head. His skillset reminds me a lot of Tevin Coleman.
Agree, disagree?
Both their best attributes are their acceleration and straightline speed. You want to get both guys around the corner.why do you say this
First juke is a two-footed jump cut. Second one is literally the only solid lateral cut you will find in all of Damion's YouTubes.
No. I didn't compare their body types, I compared their running styles. DMC was straight-line fast with upright, stiff lateral moves. Like Donald, he made the most of his strengths despite his limitations, thanks to good vision, feel and toughness, but the last part did him in as he regularly trucked defenders in the NFL, when it became apparent he couldn't slip tackles as easily in the NFL as he did at Arkansas.Does Henderson have tiny chicken legs like mcfadden?
It's great that people could find clips of a couple plays where he makes a juke. If these demonstrate his best moves though, I still question his lateral agility. At least I wouldn't call it one of his strengths. I'm not the only one either, so not sure what's so controversial about it.
You make good points. Henderson doesnt need to have great lateral movements to be a good NFL running back. He still gets around defenders and makes it look a lot easier than Miles Sanders.Lots of reasons he might not get there, like Gurley staying fairly healthy, but I don't think not cutting as wide laterally as Sanders or Singletary is one of them.
well, dont make odd claims like "he cant juke" knowing theres likely at least 1 clip of him making a juke.It's great that people could find clips of a couple plays where he makes a juke. If these demonstrate his best moves though, I still question his lateral agility. At least I wouldn't call it one of his strengths. I'm not the only one either, so not sure what's so controversial about it.
It's never more apparent than when seeing Miles Sanders make a cut compared to Henderson. Pretty blatant imo.
You do realize Henderson was split out wide 20% of his snaps as a receiver right? I’m surprised you even have the audacity to act surprised about things you know nothing about.Henderson is light years away from Kamara. He’s not even a poor man’s Kamara.
The Rams want to install some things that Kamara does for the Saints, but that’s not a surprise in today’s NFL. Dallas wants to do some Kamara-like stuff with Pollard (who also had a gaudy YPC for Memphis).
I don’t dislike Henderson as much as I’m surprised by how much love he’s receiving as far as upside.
His running style is very similar to CookSo wait, he's got healthy Cook upside now? Third rb in the 2017 draft, after Fournette who was supposed to be the next big thing and CMC the ppr monster, that Cook? Who's been great when he was healthy?
Damn hate to have him.
Forest for the trees.well, dont make odd claims like "he cant juke" knowing theres likely at least 1 clip of him making a juke.
A voice of reason in the wilderness.Catbird said:The lateral cuts of players like Sanders (and Singletary and Montgomery) seem to me far sharper and more violent than Henderson's. Its Henderson's similar style to Dalvin Cook that explains the great college success they both enjoyed. Both kind of veer and accelerate right by a guy where Sanders (or so many others) cut more laterally around the defender. The wide cutters create a wider gap between themselves and the defender, but have to regain their flow. Cook and Henderson veer just at the moment they approach a defender, pausing him and maintaining their power line while accelerating past before the defender can balance and grab them. Its a different skill and if you are looking for one and getting the other, I think you tend to underappreciate these guys' talent.
9 yards per carry, (almost 2 full yards every single carry more than any other college RB with 200 carries in 2018) doesn't happen by chance. Doing that 2 years in a row ... says its a real talent he possesses. If he is Dalvin2 (despite the other differences) with that almost unique style, I don't see why Cook numbers in a far better offense, and without the injuries, aren't well within Henderson's ceiling. Lots of reasons he might not get there, like Gurley staying fairly healthy, but I don't think not cutting as wide laterally as Sanders or Singletary is one of them.