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Dr. Dan

Darrell Henderson - LA Rams

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We so need the season to start.  Too many people are taking what can only be conjecture as some kind of personal attack, are making mountains out of molehills, and some just seem to be content to make the same argument over and over and yet over again.

Take a breath, take a step back, maybe go out and do something while getting some fresh air, reset your patience.

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7 hours ago, [icon] said:

Few folks being tools in here.

Let’s knock down the chippy ego slapfight crap and talk football please. 

No more warnings.

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6 hours ago, Arodin said:

New voice in here so hopefully this won’t get lost in the back and forth bickering even though it sounds like Jones’ repetitive point.

Henderson is indeed an electric player, but there seems to be a longstanding institutional pushback in the NFL toward smaller backs, such that they rarely get the workload that we fans think they are earning in head-to-head competitions.  Warrick Dunn, Tiki Barber, Dion Lewis types all seem to give way to bigger but less talented backs for reasons which appear rooted primarily in coaches’ bias.

I agree with this. I have long wondered why this is?

I recognize the bias exists and that it has an impact on touches/workload regardless of if it is rational coaching or not. Giovani Bernard for example, great RB imo but just never really got the chance to be their feature RB because the coaches didn't want him to be.

6 hours ago, Arodin said:

Seems to me that (if Gurley goes down for a lengthy period) expecting Brown to get more carries and goalline looks than his smaller but faster and more productive partner is a real concern, and it lowers my expectations for Henderson’s volume as a potential feature back.

To be fair I have been a believer in Brown since he was drafted, so I could be overstating his value.  But observations of history say that won’t matter since coaches will take carries away from a smaller back and give them to him even if his skill tops out at “TJ Duckett 2.0.”

So is the consensus of the Henderson backers that:

1) He’s just so good that it won’t matter? Or,

2) McVay is a new breed of coach who won’t fall prey to the institutional biases of the past generation?

Because otherwise I could easily see Henderson capped at a Tarik Cohen level of output and always being paired with a bulkier counterpart who siphons touches and touchdowns.  

1) I think Henderson is so good that it wouldn't matter against competition such as Brown and Kelly, but it does matter when the competition is as great as Todd Gurley.

2) McVay uses a lot of outside zone which according to Hendersons college coach fits his skill set perfectly. I agree. McVay is young enough that he might not share the view of coaches from past decades and eras. The GM Les Snead had Jeff FIsher as his head coach, just an example of the old guard of coaching philosophies, that didn't work out so well, despite the Rams having a ton of draft capital and a very talented roster. He brings in McVay and the turn around of the team was amazing. So I would think Snead is influenced by that. Listening to Sneads comments about Henderson, he is a player he thinks will be very hard to defend in the NFL and that they didn't want him going to another team. So Snead is definitely on board.

With a healthy Gurley I don't think Henderson gets the ball that much. The ceiling would be something like 120 rushing attempts and 50 receptions. RB two type numbers perhaps? His upside is very firmly capped by the greatness of Gurley in the short term.

Gurley hasn't been healthy and Henderson becomes a RB one contender if/when Gurley misses games though.

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Own him as a handcuff to Gurley in dyno. It's sensible insurance even though I think the hype for him is wild right now.

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10 Observations from Rams minicamp

Excerpt:

Quote

Running back Darrell Henderson had the first play of those 11-on-11 drills, taking a screen down the sideline, avoiding the path of defenders with his shiftiness. Sure, the Rams don’t have pads on. But that is the kind of play that makes you feel like he can translate that ability to make people miss he displayed at Memphis to the highest level.

 

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Uhhh so my post here from a couple days ago got deleted and I got banned for a day. I thought that it was 100% clear that I was being tongue-in-cheek making a light hearted joke but I guess I’ll apologize to anyone it may have offended. And I applaud Football Jones for taking the humor for what it was and responding in kind. That’s all carry on.

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On 6/8/2019 at 6:14 PM, Biabreakable said:

I agree with this. I have long wondered why this is?

I recognize the bias exists and that it has an impact on touches/workload regardless of if it is rational coaching or not. Giovani Bernard for example, great RB imo but just never really got the chance to be their feature RB because the coaches didn't want him to be.

 

Bernard is an odd pick for an example.  I just don’t see where he’s shown any special traits in the opportunities he has had in his career - and he’s certainly gotten enough work - to show he’s anything more than a solid part of a RBBC.

There have been plenty of “little” guys who have gotten a chance to be RB1s and have thrived.  Just off the top if my head without researching:

Barry Sanders

Ray Rice

Deangelo Williams

Priest Holmes

Maurice Jones-Drew

Tiki Barber

Warrick Dunn

Some had incredible talent and innovative coaches, others like Barber, Williams, and Dunn were coached by traditional guys and had to have the opportunity appear out of necessity.  But talent will find its way onto the field one way or another.  

I don’t see McVay as a stodgy coach who has a throw-back mentality, and I see Henderson as having enough talent that he’s going to get his touches, now that Gurley appears to be in a situation where he is going to need to be on a touch count.  If Gurley were 100% I’m pretty sure he’s got enough talent to hold off almost anyone in the league, but that doesn’t appear to be the case any longer.  That’s what I’m relying on in my thought process.  We’ll see how it shakes out.

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1 hour ago, Bronco Billy said:

There have been plenty of “little” guys who have gotten a chance to be RB1s and have thrived.  Just off the top if my head without researching:

Barry Sanders

Ray Rice

Deangelo Williams

Priest Holmes

Maurice Jones-Drew

Tiki Barber

Warrick Dunn

 

LeSean McCoy

Brian Westbrook

Phillip Lindsay

Jamaal Charles

Chris Johnson

Emmitt Smith

Marshall Faulk

just to throw out a few more without much thought

 

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Yahoo's Charles Robinson reports the Rams want third-round RB Darrell Henderson to serve as a "Chris Thompson type."

That's a role ex-Redskins OC Sean McVay is intimately familiar with. Robinson also predicts Henderson and Malcolm Brown will handle roughly 35 percent of the Rams' running back snaps. If Henderson is actually deployed this way, he would have some standalone value in PPR leagues.

SOURCE: Charles Robinson on Twitter

Jul 29, 2019, 3:17 PM ET

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Is the Chris Thompson role, catch about 25 passes and then break in half?

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Chris Thompson usage in the passing game but thiccccc enough to run between the tackles against a light front/when Gurley’s knee falls off? Good for me!

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10 Observations from Day 2 of 2019 Rams training camp

Excerpt:

Quote

4) Running back Darrell Henderson continues to impressover the first couple days. Again during on-on-ones, he tracked a deep ball down the right side from quarterback Brandon Allen, reeling it in over his shoulder. There are wide receivers who don’t have that kind of ability. It’s early and the Rams aren’t in pads, but he looks like a weapon.

 

10 Observations from Day 3 of 2019 Rams training camp

Excerpt:

Quote

Running back Darrell Henderson seems to do something impressive every practice, and on Monday that was making a one-handed grab to pull in a swing pass on a short route to the right side.

 

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Here’s the actual tweet from Charles Robinson:

Quote

2. #Rams feel good about Todd Gurley + RB depth. I’d wager Malcolm Brown & Darrell Henderson combine for 35% (or more) of RB snaps. Henderson is very interesting. Plan is for him to be a Chris Thompson type. Thompson’s 2016 #Redskins film under McVay was a flexible mismatch role.

 

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Last year Gurley had 56% of the Rams rushing attempts and 69% of the Rams RB rushing attempts in the regular season. So Henderson and Brown combining for 35% wouldn't be much of a difference, if any, from last year.

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1 hour ago, Penguin said:

Last year Gurley had 56% of the Rams rushing attempts and 69% of the Rams RB rushing attempts in the regular season. So Henderson and Brown combining for 35% wouldn't be much of a difference, if any, from last year.

That's because he missed 2 games. In the 14 games he played, Gurley had 84% of the Rams RB rushing attempts and 86% of the RB snaps.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Penguin said:

Last year Gurley had 56% of the Rams rushing attempts and 69% of the Rams RB rushing attempts in the regular season. So Henderson and Brown combining for 35% wouldn't be much of a difference, if any, from last year.

RB snaps - which would mean Gurley would only be on the field 65% of the time. Gurley also missed 3 games last season.

Edited by Dr. Octopus

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So, for the games Gurley sits, and there will be some, what is the Henderson/Brown breakdown?

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7 hours ago, Faust said:

10 Observations from Day 2 of 2019 Rams training camp

Excerpt:

4) Running back Darrell Henderson continues to impressover the first couple days. Again during on-on-ones, he tracked a deep ball down the right side from quarterback Brandon Allen, reeling it in over his shoulder. There are wide receivers who don’t have that kind of ability. It’s early and the Rams aren’t in pads, but he looks like a weapon.

That’s so intriguing in today’s game and with a creative coordinator like McVay. I can’t wait to see how he uses that. 

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33 minutes ago, TheWinz said:

So, for the games Gurley sits, and there will be some, what is the Henderson/Brown breakdown?

50/50 on snaps to start. 60/40 touches for Henderson with the majority of the receptions.

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Top 10 Observations from Rams 2019 training camp

Excerpt:

Quote

1) While head coach Sean McVay downplayed the notion of running back Darrell Henderson getting first-team snaps — the Rams are rotating in a lot of players, McVay said — Henderson looks the part. During one-on-one drills, Henderson caught a slant going from left to right and it’s easy to see why the Rams like him. McVay credited Henderson’s work ethic and running backs coach Skip Peete for getting the rookie RB up to speed.

 

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Since we know McVay is a pathological liar, can we assume every thing he says about potential workloads is the opposite of what will actually happen? Or will he throw in some truth every so often just to throw off the scent?

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5 takeaways from the Rams' first unofficial depth chart

Excerpt:

Quote

Darrell Henderson has work to do

The biggest surprise of the depth chart is how buried Darrell Henderson Jr. is. The explosive third-round pick finds himself as the team’s RB5. Not only is he behind Todd Gurley and Malcolm Brown as expected, but he’s yet to overtake John Kelly or even Justin Davis in the running back hierarchy.

This is likely to change before opening day as the team may not want to keep five running backs on the roster. Still, it shows that the Rams will be patient with Henderson’s development. They aren’t throwing him into the backup running back role from Day 1. He’ll have to earn his way past Kelly and Davis, and he has a lot of work to do before usurping Brown as the No. 2 back.

Keep a close eye on how the explosive rookie performs this preseason. It will likely have an impact on the size of his role in Week 1.

 

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1 hour ago, RushHour said:

Shows how ridiculous these unofficial depth charts are. Behind John Kelly and Justin Davis? Give me a break. 

Bump Finley.

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1 hour ago, Raptors409 said:

 

2 hours ago, RushHour said:

Shows how ridiculous these unofficial depth charts are. Behind John Kelly and Justin Davis? Give me a break. 

Bump Finley.

I see coach is trying to motivate Tatum Bell

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12 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

you guys know the HC don't fill the depth charts out right? Its some unpaid intern gig.....

Actually actually true.

The Lions released their first depth chart a few days ago. It was filled out by the communications staff.

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Henderson’s ADP is currently at RB35 (84), but I’ve seen him go in the 6th (RB27-30) of late. Probably be a 5th rounder (RB23-26) in a few more weeks.

Gurley holding at 14 (RB9.)

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7 minutes ago, BobbyLayne said:

Henderson’s ADP is currently at RB35 (84), but I’ve seen him go in the 6th (RB27-30) of late. Probably be a 5th rounder (RB23-26) in a few more weeks.

Gurley holding at 14 (RB9.)

Hmmm I dunno. If he dominates in the preseason games maybe he’ll surge but his ADP trend is pretty clearly down going by FFCalc. I hope he stays round 7 ish. 

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31 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

you guys know the HC don't fill the depth charts out right? Its some unpaid intern gig.....

This depends on the team. In Washington, the PR guy did it last year, but Jay Gruden did it this year. So it's hard to say. 

Knowing who the players are that are getting 1st team and situational football reps is way more important than any depth chart though. Especially in August. 

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8 hours ago, BobbyLayne said:

Henderson’s ADP is currently at RB35 (84), but I’ve seen him go in the 6th (RB27-30) of late. Probably be a 5th rounder (RB23-26) in a few more weeks.

Gurley holding at 14 (RB9.)

henderson at your suggested  price is overvalued....not buying in redraft 

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5th rd in redraft?  I am all about Henderson this year, but that's way too high.  Now, if the draft started in like week 6 of the regular season, sure.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

henderson at your suggested  price is overvalued....not buying in redraft 

This is too obvious. Why take a Chris Thompson imposter in the 6th when you can have the real thing in the 12th or whatever?

Obviously, the Henderson love derives from the idea the Gurley knees will fail some point this year. Still others will take Gurley in the 2nd.  Something about this backfield's ADP doesn't compute for me. One of the other of them will be a wasted pick for somebody, maybe both.

Edited by cloppbeast

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44 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

This is too obvious. Why take a Chris Thompson imposter in the 6th when you can have the real thing in the 12th or whatever?

Obviously, the Henderson love derives from the idea the Gurley knees will fail some point this year. Still others will take Gurley in the 2nd.  Something about this backfield's ADP doesn't compute for me. One of the other of them will be a wasted pick for somebody, maybe both.

Chris Thompson the real thing can’t stay healthy and when he has been he’s had fantasy value. So you take the Chris Thompson skillset, throw out the health negative, add 13 lbs, put him on one of the top offenses in the league (a team that traded up to take him early third) and now you have Darrell Henderson. 

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1 hour ago, cloppbeast said:

This is too obvious. Why take a Chris Thompson imposter in the 6th when you can have the real thing in the 12th or whatever?

Obviously, the Henderson love derives from the idea the Gurley knees will fail some point this year. Still others will take Gurley in the 2nd.  Something about this backfield's ADP doesn't compute for me. One of the other of them will be a wasted pick for somebody, maybe both.

Are some of the people taking Henderson in the 6th, also taking Gurley in the 2nd? 

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27 minutes ago, Cobbler1 said:

Chris Thompson the real thing can’t stay healthy and when he has been he’s had fantasy value. So you take the Chris Thompson skillset, throw out the health negative, add 13 lbs, put him on one of the top offenses in the league (a team that traded up to take him early third) and now you have Darrell Henderson. 

Did they trade up to get him? I hadn't heard that.

Anyway, I suppose you're right, he's a different player than Thompson; but his role is the same if you take the Rams at their word. Catching 40 or 50 passes will unlikely justify a 6th round pick. Something would have to happen to Gurley. 

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5 minutes ago, travdogg said:

Are some of the people taking Henderson in the 6th, also taking Gurley in the 2nd? 

We’re not drafting for 18 days, but my daily routine is to mock at 3 different sites to get a feel for different strategies & runs. I don’t always target them but when I do the most common combo is 2nd (15th pick) & 9th (106th.) The last time I took Gurley (yesterday) he fell to the 34th pick (RB17), only time I’ve seen him last until the third, and Henderson went in the 6th (RB31), earliest I’ve seen. Typically he goes in the 7th or 8th round, Gurley late first to middle second.

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19 minutes ago, travdogg said:

Are some of the people taking Henderson in the 6th, also taking Gurley in the 2nd? 

I'm passing on Gurley everywhere but trying to add Henderson everywhere....even if I have to reach a little for Henderson before I really want too....I feel he will have some stand alone value in that offense and with an anticipated lighter load for Gurley....let alone league winning value at his current ADP if things go the way they seem with Gurley and his knees.....feel he is worth that potential ROI and just need to rely on my drafting skills throughout the rest of the draft to make up for the "reach" in the mid rounds.....adding Brown later in deeper leagues as well....

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I've primarily mocked on yahoo and he seems to go 8th or later on there.  

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1 hour ago, cloppbeast said:

Did they trade up to get him? I hadn't heard that.

Anyway, I suppose you're right, he's a different player than Thompson; but his role is the same if you take the Rams at their word. Catching 40 or 50 passes will unlikely justify a 6th round pick. Something would have to happen to Gurley. 

They gave up 2 later 3rds to get him in the early 3rd. I think his healthy (ish) Gurley upside is similar to a Thompson like role except with the added ability to handle a few more carries and have a better shot at holding up to it. The Skins wanted to give Thompson more work but Gruden was hesitant because he’s smaller and they didn’t know if he could hold up. In 2017 through 9 games they gave him 61 carries and he had 38 receptions. His 147 fantasy points had him in high end rb2 territory. But then he got hurt in his 10th game. He had similar usage to start 2018 but then got hurt again and then again.

I think thats the upside of Henderson in that role. Maybe less on the recs but more carries (and Thompson had an absurd 13 ypr in ‘17 which is very unlikely). The obvious downside is that Gurley is fine or close to fine and dominates the work. Offset some by the huge upside that Gurley does miss time and Henderson finds himself getting 12-15 touches or more.

The Thompson/Skins comparison to the Rams isn’t perfect for sure. The Skins didn’t have a Gurley or a stud trio of wrs demanding targets.  But if that’s the role being discussed that’s what I see as the upside. I’m leaning towards looking for Henderson from the mid 6th on because I think he has a good shot at providing moderate value as a rb3 with the upside of sliding into a high end satellite back role and touching rb2 numbers. And league winning upside if Gurley has to miss several games.

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10 hours ago, cloppbeast said:

This is too obvious. Why take a Chris Thompson imposter in the 6th when you can have the real thing in the 12th or whatever?

Obviously, the Henderson love derives from the idea the Gurley knees will fail some point this year. Still others will take Gurley in the 2nd.  Something about this backfield's ADP doesn't compute for me. One of the other of them will be a wasted pick for somebody, maybe both.

No. The DH love stems from the belief he can be used similar to Kamara. It is TBD. 

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10 minutes ago, dipandglide said:

No. The DH love stems from the belief he can be used similar to Kamara. It is TBD. 

I'm just going off what the Rams have said about his Thompson usage is all. I also remember the Kamara comparison from after the draft, but that's pretty optimistic don't you think?

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7 hours ago, jm192 said:

I've primarily mocked on yahoo and he seems to go 8th or later on there.  

went 7.1 in a recent start up

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1 hour ago, cloppbeast said:

I'm just going off what the Rams have said about his Thompson usage is all. I also remember the Kamara comparison from after the draft, but that's pretty optimistic don't you think?

I didn't make the statement about Kamara. That is what one of LA's top dogs said. But yes, that would be "optomistic" to even the DH homers. 

The people taking him in the 5/6th like his floor/ceiling combo. I don't blame them. 

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11 hours ago, cloppbeast said:

I'm just going off what the Rams have said about his Thompson usage is all. I also remember the Kamara comparison from after the draft, but that's pretty optimistic don't you think?

Of course it’s optimistic that he’ll produce like Kamara, as he is a top 4 draft pick this year, but the point is he can be used in that type of role (which isn’t really all that different from the Thompson role to be honest - Kamara is just a lot better and more durable than Thompson has been).

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Posted (edited)

Los Angeles Rams training camp Week 1 recap

Quote

Things got under way for the Los Angeles Rams last week. Here’s a brief recap of what we saw in Week 1

In case you missed it last week, here are a few notable-s from Irvine:

The running backs are wide receivers!

Vincent Bonsignore✔@VinnyBonsignore

Henderson and Gurley both lined up as WR’s on a couple plays https://twitter.com/vinnybonsignore/status/1155257089444331520 …

Vincent Bonsignore✔@VinnyBonsignore

Five straight plays, all out of 11 personnel, for #Rams 1st team offense. Only interchangeable parts were Gurley and Henderson and Higbee and Everett switching in and out.

7:23 PM - Jul 27, 2019

-----------------------------------

...I wish opposing defenses the best of luck (I do not) when they’re looking at an empty set, and working feverishly to figure out who’s responsible for WR4...Todd Gurley.

And in regards to the Rams’ rookie rusher - Darrell Henderson - fans may see him sooner (and potentially more often) than one might think. Here’s Rams’ insider Myles Simmons at the end of Day 1: 

 While head coach Sean McVay downplayed the notion of running back Darrell Henderson getting first-team snaps — the Rams are rotating in a lot of players, McVay said — Henderson looks the part. During one-on-one drills, Henderson caught a slant going from left to right and it’s easy to see why the Rams like him. McVay credited Henderson’s work ethic and running backs coach Skip Peete for getting the rookie RB up to speed.

...Running back Darrell Henderson continues to impress over the first couple days. Again during on-on-ones, he tracked a deep ball down the right side from quarterback Brandon Allen, reeling it in over his shoulder. There are wide receivers who don’t have that kind of ability. It’s early and the Rams aren’t in pads, but he looks like a weapon.

 

 

Edited by Bracie Smathers
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