Interseptopus
Footballguy
if hes 5'11, then I dont care nearly as much.
If hes 5'9 or lower then I think you are comparing apples to giraffes
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QB Kyler Murray, ARZ (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Bracie Smathers
- Start date
If hes 5'9 or lower then I think you are comparing apples to giraffes
You’re a liar and misleading people if you say 5’7. I will never come back to this board again if he measures under 5’8... you want to make the same wager if he measures over 5’8?
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ex-ghost
Footballguy
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
pantherclub
Footballguy
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
idk I'd be more inclined to ask that to the guy who is insisting that hes 5'6 without any proof
Serious question ... Are you mentally challenged? Where the hell did you get 5'8" and that's not even the problem ... a 5'11 and 6'0 person are 4-6" taller than a 5'8" person? Have your mommy help you with the math.
He's under 5'8" and 4 inches shorter than the 5'10" Doug Flutie? .... Somethings not right
Yeah but they made Flutie stand in a 6" hole ... that's why you cant see his feet.
In reality the 5'10" Flutie is 4 inches taller than the 5'8" Murray ...somehow
Another serious question ... If Murray who is listed at 5'11" is really 5''6" ... Is Flutie who is listed at 5'10 really 5'5" ?
Well if everyone that plays football is actually 4 inches shorter than they are listed than isn't it all relative?
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I think it's entirely possible Flutie was made taller than he really is. It's also entirely possible that he has lost some height since his playing days. it does happen to most of us as we age
-OZ-
Footballguy
Murray hasn't been through a combine.
Rediscuss after that happens.
FWIW, I don't think he's 5'6. But I'd bet he's shorter than Wilson.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
no. I'm saying its possible he was listed taller than he really was when he played.
it's also possible that he wasnt listed taller, but that he lost height as he aged, since most people do.
I dont know how that's confusing you
eta: a man measured 30 years ago at 5'10 looks short standing next to a KM reportedly 5'10, so people assume KM has to be taller. they ignore the very real possibility that the man measured 30 years ago could very well be 2 or 3 inches shorter today. especially if he played a violent game for his career.
I'm not saying Murray is 5'7. I already gave my prediction above. I think he is shorter than 5'10, but taller than 5'9.
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Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
People that can't do basic math shouldn't be judging talent.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Doug looks to be leaning forward and the guy is
Camera angles matter.
I'll actually cheer for the kid unless he plays for a team I don't like (he'll probably play baseball anyway) but you can't fault people for calling him short. Or small.
https://i.cleveland.com/resizer/eQCrwyqDIym9kn_nT_a210AiU7k=/960x0/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-advancelocal/public/45CYYBDA75GXNEPKW2CQDUCVEU.png
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Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
All the people better at fantasy football than me (PFF, Evan Silva, Thor Nystrom) seem to not give a #### about his height... so neither do I. BTW, #1 graded QB at PFF
matuski
Footballguy
5'8" would be below 5'9"... which would prevent me from eating my shorts. I still lean 5'7".. which doesn't make me a liar. It could make me wrong .... about the height of a kid that plays football. I can live with that.
Either way chill out a bit ... You seem like you want to fight over it.
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matuski
Footballguy
matuski
Footballguy
Or that he never really was 5'10" to begin with, which is the whole point. @Dr. Dan
Unless they are combine, barefoot back to a wall, objectively measured.. these numbers are worthless.
We now have 4 different heights (5'9", 5'9 7/8" (with socks of course), 5'10", and 5'11" twice) for the player this thread is about... AT BEST only one can be right, which still demonstrates how worthless the numbers are in general.
eta - I find this stuff fascinating, not sure why it is getting under people's skin.
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Bronco Billy
Footballguy
You want to be a pro distance runner you can;t weigh 200 pounds, it will not work.
You can't be a skinny NFL RB.
And you cannot be as small as Murray and expect to have an NFL career as a QB.
Yes, as a ulility/do it all athlete, absolutely, guys far smaller than him have starred, just not at QB.
You can't be a skinny NFL RB.
And you cannot be as small as Murray and expect to have an NFL career as a QB.
Yes, as a ulility/do it all athlete, absolutely, guys far smaller than him have starred, just not at QB.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
I would be excited to see him go to the NFL. I think most are wrong to judge him for his height. That being said, the announcement feels like a bit of tactic by Scott Boras to push for entry level baseball players to get better contracts. The NFL is probably going to respond the way most have around here which is extremely uncomfortable with a 5’9 QB (even though the game has gone to something close to 80% shotgun snaps). It just doesn’t compute with the old school mentality despite the athleticism, the efficiency and playing in the Big 12. I expect to see him in Spring Training before I expect to see him at the combine.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I made a joke about it - but it actually is true. Flutie could have lost at least an inch since his playing days.
It's pointless to argue or show photos (where the angles or leans can be misleading) to prove how tall/short he is - we'll all know soon enough.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Mike Houck @mhouckOU
Keep hearing TV talking heads question the 5-10 height at which we list Kyler. Have heard a couple even say they think he's more like 5-8. Before the season, our strength staff measured him at 5-9 7/8 in socks.
2:19 PM - 14 Jan 2019
------------------------------------------
KylerSzn @TLMOCK04
Replying to @mhouckOU @WingfieldNFL
Kyler and Flutie. And Flutie is what, 5'8"?
3:24 PM - 14 Jan 2019
------------------------------------
Note that Flutie is in front of the camera so he should look taller but isn't.
Keep hearing TV talking heads question the 5-10 height at which we list Kyler. Have heard a couple even say they think he's more like 5-8. Before the season, our strength staff measured him at 5-9 7/8 in socks.
2:19 PM - 14 Jan 2019
------------------------------------------
PHOTO of Kyler and Flutie standing next to each other
KylerSzn @TLMOCK04
Replying to @mhouckOU @WingfieldNFL
Kyler and Flutie. And Flutie is what, 5'8"?
3:24 PM - 14 Jan 2019
------------------------------------
Note that Flutie is in front of the camera so he should look taller but isn't.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He could be leaning or slouching or the difference in hair could make him look taller - so like I said all of this is just "noise" and it's meaningless until he's actually measured (or not as @Bojang0301 said).
pantherclub
Footballguy
Mike golic just said he is 5'9 possibly 5'8.
Thats going to get a GM fired sure as ####
Thats going to get a GM fired sure as ####
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Shannon Sharpe says he is 5-9 tops...Flutie had some good years so even though he is short Murray can do the same.
MAC_32
Footballguy
His size and potential to flee for baseball will be the main talking points, but it's his actual play that raises my eyebrow more than anything.
From a mechanical perspective, generally he does everything you would want out of a QB. Additionally, his ability once on the move is excellent given his level of experience. He doesn't usually just bail and run. When he does it's with purpose. He usually keeps his eyes locked down field and that's a very difficult thing to coach. It's a good template to start from, but he's got a lot he needs work on too. Most of his bad mistakes happen because of misreads pre-snap and lack of adjustments post-snap. And that's in the Big 12. When the pre-snap decision and/or first read is there his accuracy to all fields is on point, but like many young QB's he has problems when that's not the case. He tends to drift fairly quickly if that read isn't there. His feet are inconsistent if they need reset, which leads to inaccurate throws. He's made some strong throws under duress, but I haven't seen a single one that wasn't also a first read. If the pressure is in there quick he has a tendency to not process info quickly enough and take advantage of plus matchups down field but make a higher risk/lower expected output throw. Probably more that doesn't immediately come to mind.
I think a lot of that could be addressed with another year in school, but he chose to come out with just one year of experience. Now decision makers will have to weigh that risk on top of the two main talking points that'll be beaten to a bloody pulp over the next 3+ months. I think it'll take a unique situation to think he's worth the risk wherever he's selected draft day. I expect to take an avoid approach.
From a mechanical perspective, generally he does everything you would want out of a QB. Additionally, his ability once on the move is excellent given his level of experience. He doesn't usually just bail and run. When he does it's with purpose. He usually keeps his eyes locked down field and that's a very difficult thing to coach. It's a good template to start from, but he's got a lot he needs work on too. Most of his bad mistakes happen because of misreads pre-snap and lack of adjustments post-snap. And that's in the Big 12. When the pre-snap decision and/or first read is there his accuracy to all fields is on point, but like many young QB's he has problems when that's not the case. He tends to drift fairly quickly if that read isn't there. His feet are inconsistent if they need reset, which leads to inaccurate throws. He's made some strong throws under duress, but I haven't seen a single one that wasn't also a first read. If the pressure is in there quick he has a tendency to not process info quickly enough and take advantage of plus matchups down field but make a higher risk/lower expected output throw. Probably more that doesn't immediately come to mind.
I think a lot of that could be addressed with another year in school, but he chose to come out with just one year of experience. Now decision makers will have to weigh that risk on top of the two main talking points that'll be beaten to a bloody pulp over the next 3+ months. I think it'll take a unique situation to think he's worth the risk wherever he's selected draft day. I expect to take an avoid approach.
Todem
Footballguy
If I were the Oakland A's I would not budge right now. You can simply wait till after the Draft. He needs to report to A ball as he is under contract.
If he is not taken in the 1st round.....his leverage is minimal.
If he is taken in the first round then Billy Beane will simply ask himself. Do I project him as a great baseball player? Well of course we do as we took him 9th overall. So how much more are we willing to potentially lose in bonus money projecting him as a future potential elite base stealing CF in The Show. That is what it really comes down to.
Kyler is a tremendous athlete. But at 5'9' it will be tough tough sledding in the NFL as a QB. I don't care how great of an athlete he is. That position at the NFL level does demand some height (compared to many other positions that do not). Have shorter stature QB's made it? Yeah. But those are rare exceptions to the rule. He is not close to 6 feet like Brees. So let's not compare that. Brees is just shy of 6 feet. Kyler is well short of 6 feet.
He does project to be an elite CF in MLB if he can indeed hit major league pitching which will take some years of development for him. I hope he pursues a baseball career. But it really is about what he wants. It is his life. I personally think he chooses baseball and this is merely a move to leverage some more guaranteed money from the A's.
If he is not taken in the 1st round.....his leverage is minimal.
If he is taken in the first round then Billy Beane will simply ask himself. Do I project him as a great baseball player? Well of course we do as we took him 9th overall. So how much more are we willing to potentially lose in bonus money projecting him as a future potential elite base stealing CF in The Show. That is what it really comes down to.
Kyler is a tremendous athlete. But at 5'9' it will be tough tough sledding in the NFL as a QB. I don't care how great of an athlete he is. That position at the NFL level does demand some height (compared to many other positions that do not). Have shorter stature QB's made it? Yeah. But those are rare exceptions to the rule. He is not close to 6 feet like Brees. So let's not compare that. Brees is just shy of 6 feet. Kyler is well short of 6 feet.
He does project to be an elite CF in MLB if he can indeed hit major league pitching which will take some years of development for him. I hope he pursues a baseball career. But it really is about what he wants. It is his life. I personally think he chooses baseball and this is merely a move to leverage some more guaranteed money from the A's.
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
well said. I agree. I think it's more likely he is using this for leverage.
Given the uncertainty of baseball vs football, if the draft were held today, I dont think he is taken in the 1st round. and then, yes, all of his leverage is gone.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
He's projected as about a 3rd round pick. Nobody gets fired over a 3rd round pick.
Between the size thing and even more his baseball contract nobody will jump too early for him.
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SHIZNITTTT
Footballguy
Oakland Raiders +250
Jacksonville Jaguars +300
New York Giants +350
Washington Redskins +450
Arizona Cardinals +500
Denver Broncos +700
Miami Dolphins +700
As far as draft grades go they are all over the place.
CBS Sports: Kyler Murray goes to New York Giants at No. 6
SB Nation: Kyler Murray lands with Jacksonville Jaguars at No. 7
Draft Wire: Kyler Murray taken by Oakland Raiders at No. 27
CBS Sports: Kyler Murray picked by New England Patriots at No. 29
The Athletic: Kyler Murray selected by Washington Redskins at No. 15
Pro Football Focus: Kyler Murray taken by New York Giants at No. 6
Bleacher Report: Kyler Murray picked by Jacksonville Jaguars at No.7
Jacksonville Jaguars +300
New York Giants +350
Washington Redskins +450
Arizona Cardinals +500
Denver Broncos +700
Miami Dolphins +700
As far as draft grades go they are all over the place.
CBS Sports: Kyler Murray goes to New York Giants at No. 6
SB Nation: Kyler Murray lands with Jacksonville Jaguars at No. 7
Draft Wire: Kyler Murray taken by Oakland Raiders at No. 27
CBS Sports: Kyler Murray picked by New England Patriots at No. 29
The Athletic: Kyler Murray selected by Washington Redskins at No. 15
Pro Football Focus: Kyler Murray taken by New York Giants at No. 6
Bleacher Report: Kyler Murray picked by Jacksonville Jaguars at No.7
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
Yeah, as a punt returnerDa Guru said:
The Goat
Footballguy
I'm of the opinion that the guy's going to measure between 5'9-1/2" and 5'10" at the combine. Can colleges inflate numbers like that? Sure. But I'm not certain that there's a lot of motivation for a weight trainer to randomly make up "He measured 5'9-7/8" in socks." And if this is the case, he's less than an inch shorter than Russell Wilson.
He seems to be doing ok.
He seems to be doing ok.
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pantherclub
Footballguy
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
https://twitter.com/jreidnfl/status/1085748402753818624?s=21
This guy does a lot of high level things. I’ll say this: if all you want to talk about is his height, I think you’re missing the forest through the trees.
This guy does a lot of high level things. I’ll say this: if all you want to talk about is his height, I think you’re missing the forest through the trees.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Its not about his capability to do those things or play at a high level its about if his size is going to hinder his ability and more importantly be able to sustain the brutal punishment for 16 games
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
I keep waiting for you to add context. Please enlighten us all. Maybe start with the amount of games Flutie played and work upward and you will see how wrong and unjustified you are. You want to talk about short guys lay me down Brees, Flutie, Wilson, Mayfield... games started and games injured. You want to talk about mobile or run first QB’s list the injuries sustained by Mike Vick, Cam Newton, Randall Cunningham, Lamar Jackson, Steve Young and how that impacted them in comparison to contemporaries or against their fantasy finishes. In fact, please do anything other than say he’s 5’9 for the love of god.
