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Undocumented Immigrant Thread

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6 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Anyone that doesn't care about border security and thinks illegal immigration is OK isn't a patriot. 

So you think Trump hasn't been a patriot for the last two years?  Why didn't he do this Day 1 in office?  You know, he had the right and all as SHS and Graham keep telling us.  Why now?

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5 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Anyone that doesn't care about border security and thinks illegal immigration is OK isn't a patriot. 

I'll ignore the fact you just created a strawman and ask:

How about a guy who takes the side of a hostile foreign power over his own IC?

Patriot?

 

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1 minute ago, Skoo said:

I'll ignore the fact you just created a strawman and ask:

How about a guy who takes the side of a hostile foreign power over his own IC?

Patriot?

 

The blindness of the trump supporter is amazing. 

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Fascinating idea that's a win-win for Democrats and Republicans


 

Quote

 

Here’s an idea: Instead of an endless, inert wall along the U.S.–Mexico border, line the boundary with 2,000 miles of natural gas, solar and wind power plants. Use some of the energy to desalinate water from the Gulf of Mexico and the Pacific Ocean and ship it through pipelines to thirsty towns, businesses and new farms along the entire border zone. Hire hundreds of thousands of people from both countries to build and run it all. Companies would make money and provide security to safeguard their assets. A contentious, costly no-man’s-land would be transformed into a corridor of opportunity.

Crazy? Maybe—or maybe not. History is full of ideas that initially sounded wacky yet ended up changing society.

The idea is more than a pipe dream. A consortium of 27 engineers and scientists from a dozen U.S. universities has developed a plan. Last week they delivered it to three U.S. representatives and one senator. “Let’s put the best scientists and engineers together to create a new way to deal with migration, trafficking—and access to water. These are regions of severe drought,” says Luciano Castillo, a professor of energy and power at Purdue University who leads the group. “Water supply is a huge future issue for all the states along the border in both countries.”

Solar and wind farms, plus 2,000 miles of natural gas and water pipelines, would power and supply water for farms and industry along the entire U.S.–Mexico border, transforming it into a zone of opportunity for both countries. Drones would help monitor it all. The Future Energy, Water, Industry and Education Park (FEWIEP) plan, mocked up in simple graphics by its creators, would include institutes for innovation and worker education. Credit: U.S. EPA (base map, border zone); Luciano Castillo, Jose Montoya, Jay Gore (icons, keys) 

If you’re getting a mental picture but still shaking your skeptical head, as I was initially, consider the larger situation Castillo and his colleagues have outlined in a brief white paper sent to Scientific American. The border region receives boundless solar energy, and has significant natural gas and wind resources. It’s also suffering from extreme drought, and water shortages are predicted to get worse. Farming is exceedingly difficult. And jobs are often scarce—in part because of lack of water and power. If an energy and water corridor were built, the facility owners would protect their properties. Transmission, gas and water lines would be monitored by companies, states and federal agencies, as many elsewhere are now. And the plants could be integrated with security walls or fences.

With water and power, farming and manufacturing could flourish. That means jobs on both sides of the border. Many people from Mexico and farther south are trying to enter the U.S. precisely because there is no opportunity for them at home. The “future energy, water, industry and education park,” as the white paper calls it, “will create massive opportunities for employment and prosperity.” Imagine the number of jobs created, Castillo says, just for the part of the plan that calls for installing eight million solar panels.

The border industrial park, as I’ll call it, could work politically, too. “Democrats want a Green New Deal. Republicans want border security,” Castillo explains. “Both parties could win. It could be a win–win for the U.S. and Mexico, too. This idea could spark a completely new conversation about the border. And we need that.”

Of course there are all sorts of hard questions. Safety is probably the toughest. Would construction workers and operating staff be at risk from smugglers and traffickers? Could employees and private security firms really confront possible serious threats or say no to bribes? Wouldn’t walls and fences linking the power plants pose a serious blockade to migrating wildlife? On Tuesday the Industrial Energy Consumers of America sent a letter to the Senate asking it to toughen gas pipeline security requirements because “one successful attack could shut down tens of thousands of manufacturing facilities.”

Castillo turns these negatives to positives—the philosophy behind the whole plan, really. Migrants could be workers. There are models for cooperation between governments: The U.S. and Canada have built and continue to protect important national infrastructure along their borders. For example, hydroelectric plants produce power on both sides of Niagara Falls. The U.S. and Mexico would be co-investors in the border industrial park, and would work together to guard it.

Desalination of seawater, a linchpin for the park, is expensive and can also foul the ocean. An enormous amount of saltwater would have to be freshened to fill a 2,000-mile pipeline. The consortium says power could come from wind and solar, strong at the Gulf and Pacific ends of the park. A 600-megawatt power plant (equivalent to a sizeable coal plant or modest nuclear plant) at the Gulf could power enough desalination to provide 2.3 million acre-feet of freshwater annually, which Castillo says is enough to supply future needs along the Texas–Mexico border. Solar farms would power water pumps for the pipeline. “We would need innovation to really bring down the energy demand and cost of desalination,” he acknowledges. “And we would have to find creative solutions for using the salty brine” that is a by-product. Recent studies show that if the brine is simply dumped back into the sea, it can ruin coastal waters there. Yet on Tuesday the Massachusetts Institute of Technology announced a new process to convert that brine into useful chemicals.

“We’re going to have some challenges,” Castillo notes. “We will have plenty to deal with.”

One of the first steps would be to start a series of institutes along the corridor to bolster innovation and create workforce education. They would probably be run as partnerships among academia, industry and government. The proposal the consortium sent to the four legislators asks for $1.1 billion to get these and other actions up and running.

Other types of experts would have to get involved. “We will need economists,” Castillo says. “We will need people with experience in manufacturing. We’ll need policy experts who know how energy and water can be traded.” Thankfully, he adds, some of the challenges have been addressed in other parts of the country and world. The U.S. and Canada, for example, have traded gobs of power across their border for decades.

Building infrastructure is a big priority in the current Congress, despite its endless bickering, so perhaps a border industrial park could rally legislators.  They just have to think differently about how to solve the border issue, Castillo says. “Don’t think of it as a barrier. Think of it as an energy corridor, a water corridor. It can create great opportunity for both countries. It can create peace.”

 

 

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21 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

 

A lot of whining and squirming in here.  

 

11 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Anyone that doesn't care about border security and thinks illegal immigration is OK isn't a patriot. 

It really is a shame that this place is such a liberal echo chamber.  Think of all the intelligent, insightful pro-Trump conservative posts like these that have been drowned out!

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Just now, TobiasFunke said:

 

It really is a shame that this place is such a liberal echo chamber.  Think of all the intelligent, insightful pro-Trump conservative posts like these that have been drowned out!

And the complaint will be that too many people piled on his posts rather than how bad the posts were in the first place.  The first is the very definition of trolling.

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12 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Anyone that doesn't care about border security and thinks illegal immigration is OK isn't a patriot. 

Can you name one person in this forum against border security and illegal immigration?  If the news stories that tRUmp employed illegal immigrants is true, then YOUR president is not a patriot.

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Thunderlips said:


Still don't get how the "deal maker" couldn't get a deal done on this. Did he really have absolutely nothing that he could dangle in front of the Democrats to get this thing done?


During the press conference, Trump was bragging about how he got the Democrats to go from "zero funding" to "1.3 billion".

Which is a weird thing for Trumpers to be celebrating, since Democrats can just as easily point out that they got Trump to go from "25 billion" to "1.3".

It's really just a tacit admission that Trump supporters don't really care about a wall. They just want a win, any win.

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9 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

 

It really is a shame that this place is such a liberal echo chamber.  Think of all the intelligent, insightful pro-Trump conservative posts like these that have been drowned out!

PSA:  You can actively drown them out using the ignore feature

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23 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Anyone that doesn't care about border security and thinks illegal immigration is OK isn't a patriot. 

Is there a sub-sub-sub-forum where these people are lurking?

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If I'm gonna slam conservatives for abandoning their fundamental principles in favor of Trumpism I should also praise the ones who don't do so.  Marco Rubio gave a kind of wishy-washy comment on the national emergency.  This from Lamar Alexander is far stronger and more principled (even if it's not an accurate statement of the law). Good for him.

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2 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

If I'm gonna slam conservatives for abandoning their fundamental principles in favor of Trumpism I should also praise the ones who don't do so.  Marco Rubio gave a kind of wishy-washy comment on the national emergency.  This from Lamar Alexander is far stronger and more principled (even if it's not an accurate statement of the law). Good for him.

Yep, and I’ll throw the ex Mass governor into that group for potentially trying to Primary Trump. I also like Romney a lot (I primaried for him in 08), as he’s one of the good ones, too.

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5 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

If I'm gonna slam conservatives for abandoning their fundamental principles in favor of Trumpism I should also praise the ones who don't do so.  Marco Rubio gave a kind of wishy-washy comment on the national emergency.  This from Lamar Alexander is far stronger and more principled (even if it's not an accurate statement of the law). Good for him.

It's nice to say these things.  Let's see where his vote actually goes. 

I've been impressed by similar words from Republicans in the past only to eventually cave and vote along party lines.  So color me unimpressed at this point.

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5 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

It's nice to say these things.  Let's see where his vote actually goes. 

I've been impressed by similar words from Republicans in the past only to eventually cave and vote along party lines.  So color me unimpressed at this point.

He's retiring; I'd be pretty surprised if he doesn't vote in line with what he wrote.

Obviously the fact that he's retiring also makes it a little less impressive that he stuck to his principles and came out in opposition, but at this point we have to take what we can get from the right.

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16 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

He's retiring; I'd be pretty surprised if he doesn't vote in line with what he wrote.

Obviously the fact that he's retiring also makes it a little less impressive that he stuck to his principles and came out in opposition, but at this point we have to take what we can get from the right.

Such a sad state of affairs.

"Now that I'm retiring, I can vote the way I actually want to vote!"

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1 hour ago, JohnnyU said:

Anyone that doesn't care about border security and thinks illegal immigration is OK isn't a patriot. 

And they definitely aren't true Scotsmen!

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4 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:
3 hours ago, squistion said:

:(

Lindsey Graham‏@LindseyGrahamSC 10m10 minutes ago

I stand firmly behind President Trump’s decision to use executive powers to build the wall-barriers we desperately need.

Oh yeah this guy, his tweets do seem important.

This is a good summary of the Republican party.

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22 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I remember back about this same time when McCain and Graham had a town hall meeting together and Graham was in tears as he spoke his friendship with McCain. Less than a year after his death I think if McCain was still alive today they would no longer be friends. What turd he has turned out to be.

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3 minutes ago, mrip541 said:

Everyone likes Walmart?!

How is "business people" different than "wall street bankers"

 

as a matter of fact...what is a "business people"

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10 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Hillary Clinton is liked more by Democrats than Pelosi? I doubt it. Sounds to me like most Democrats want Hillary Clinton to go crawl in a hole and never come out.

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Anyone know the amount or how to find what has been appropriated for military construction as of right now?  I read both the letter Trump sent to Pelosi formally announcing national emergency declaration and the two supporting subsections of US Code for this move and that seems to be the sole source of finances for this.  Required within that authority is a submission of design and costs for the project to Congress

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I must say I don't really understand why Democrats are this upset about the idea of a national emergency.  First of all he would give himself to same or less money that was originally signed to him.  Originally talks were that he was going to do 7 billion when he asked for 5 billion during the shutdown.   But more importantly Trump has given them the ability to do give him a dose of their own medicine.   I mean unless Trump just completely loses his mind and decides that due to a national emergency the 2020 elections have been cancelled.  But yeah he opened a Pandora's box that could destroy the Republicans in the future if they want to be just as reckless

So is Ann Coulter pissed at Trump because she realizes that this is a complete hail mary with a one armed QB or that it was only about 1.5 billion and not the 5 billion he was begging.  

Edited by hammerva

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1 minute ago, hammerva said:

I must say I don't really understand why Democrats are this upset about the idea of a national emergency.  First of all he would give himself to same or less money that was originally signed to him.  Originally talks were that he was going to do 7 billion when he asked for 5 billion during the shutdown.   But more importantly Trump has given them the ability to do give him a dose of their own medicine.   I mean unless Trump just completely loses his mind and decides that due to a national emergency the 2020 elections have been cancelled.  But yeah he opened a Pandora's box that could destroy the Republicans in the future if they want to be just as reckless

So is Ann Coulter pissed at Trump because she realizes that this is a complete hail mary with a one armed QB or that it was only about 1.5 billion and not the 5 billion he was begging.  

this has been talked about as a possibility since the day he took office....

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2 hours ago, JohnnyU said:

Anyone that doesn't care about border security and thinks illegal immigration is OK isn't a patriot. 

oooooof

anyone who saw Mr Trump today how on earth could anyone vote for that guy?

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1 minute ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

oooooof

anyone who saw Mr Trump today how on earth could anyone vote for that guy?

Because they desperately want to believe the lies he tells them. Their worldviews and identities are bound up with all the bad ideas and misperceptions he peddles.

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If Republicans water down the word “emergency” enough, the true national emergency of what Trump is, is doing, will continue to do, will simply be a true nothing burger. Our main national emergency is Trump, McConnell and what they are doing to our system. Truly disgusting. 

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39 minutes ago, hammerva said:

I must say I don't really understand why Democrats are this upset about the idea of a national emergency.  First of all he would give himself to same or less money that was originally signed to him.  Originally talks were that he was going to do 7 billion when he asked for 5 billion during the shutdown.   But more importantly Trump has given them the ability to do give him a dose of their own medicine.   I mean unless Trump just completely loses his mind and decides that due to a national emergency the 2020 elections have been cancelled.  But yeah he opened a Pandora's box that could destroy the Republicans in the future if they want to be just as reckless

So is Ann Coulter pissed at Trump because she realizes that this is a complete hail mary with a one armed QB or that it was only about 1.5 billion and not the 5 billion he was begging.  

Because I don’t think it should be done now or later and think it’s a dangerous precedent to set.  

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10 minutes ago, Weebs210 said:

Easy win. Again.

This is a win?  And again implies he has won before...very odd.

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3 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Because I don’t think it should be done now or later and think it’s a dangerous precedent to set.  

Oh that is definitely true.   But if get away with this national emergency don't act like the other side won't use it as well.  I mean remember how conservatives told us how awful executive orders were and how they were destroying the constitution.  Then Trump gets into office and signs orders so fast you would think he is at an autograph signing and NOBODY complained

 

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:yes:

Andrea Mitchell‏ @mitchellreports 6h6 hours ago

Jeremy Bash: we should stop saying he is fulfilling a campaign promise, the campaign promise was that Mexico would pay for the wall. He is actually breaking a campaign promise. #AMR

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3 hours ago, Weebs210 said:

Easy win. Again.

Trump accepted $23.6 million less than what he wanted, he accepted fencing instead of walls, and he also chose a path that will virtually guarantee that construction of a wall will not start until after the 2020 election (at the earliest).

Also, one of the President's most prominent national supporters (Ann Coulter) called him an "idiot" and said he was "fooling the rubes with a national emergency".

But other than THAT, it was definitely a win. :thumbup:

Edited by [scooter]
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9 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Trump accepted $23.6 million less than what he wanted, he accepted fencing instead of walls, and he also chose a path that will virtually guarantee that construction of a wall will not start until after the 2020 election (at the earliest).

Also, one of the President's most prominent national supporters (Ann Coulter) called him an "idiot" and said he was "fooling the rubes with a national emergency".

But other than THAT, it was definitely a win. :thumbup:

Make that billions, scoot

;) 

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15 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Trump accepted $23.6 million less than what he wanted, he accepted fencing instead of walls, and he also chose a path that will virtually guarantee that construction of a wall will not start until after the 2020 election (at the earliest).

Also, one of the President's most prominent national supporters (Ann Coulter) called him an "idiot" and said he was "fooling the rubes with a national emergency".

But other than THAT, it was definitely a win. :thumbup:

I figured Weebs was referring to Nancy. 

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The best (worst?) part of that press conference is when he went on and on complaining about how Democrats never congratulated him, never gave him credit for anything: 

I could buy Beijing for a dollar and they’d say I spent too much! 

I swear I think he sees Nancy as a mother figure. He really wants to hear a “nice job!” from her. Just once...

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1 hour ago, gianmarco said:

I wannna know how everyone like "scientists" when a large group of people hate their product with such passion.

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I know this is way late but I just saw Ann Coulter obliterate Trump and his supporters. She’s awful but she’s smart and has this one pegged.

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29 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Trump accepted $23.6 million less than what he wanted, he accepted fencing instead of walls, and he also chose a path that will virtually guarantee that construction of a wall will not start until after the 2020 election (at the earliest).

Also, one of the President's most prominent national supporters (Ann Coulter) called him an "idiot" and said he was "fooling the rubes with a national emergency".

But other than THAT, it was definitely a win. :thumbup:

Now that is the kind of winning you actually can get tired of real quick!

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1 minute ago, Ilov80s said:

I know this is way late but I just saw Ann Coulter obliterate Trump and his supporters. She’s awful but she’s smart and has this one pegged.

Like everything she says she’s just looking to get noticed. 

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4 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I know this is way late but I just saw Ann Coulter obliterate Trump and his supporters. She’s awful but she’s smart and has this one pegged.

Awful does not always equal dumb.

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6 hours ago, Amused to Death said:

Believing in Trump trumps upholding the Constitution.  The cult is strong.

it's not about Trump...they really don't like him (wink wink)...this is just to own the libs once again.

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