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Undocumented Immigrant Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
Amused to Death
Footballguy
I would need to know more about the waiting period and the conditions of their detention first. I would not be in favor of caging families for years while waiting for their asylum/immigration hearing to be decided.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
The policy of catching illegals at the border and releasing them into the country until their court date, which they never show up for. They simply blend into the country as another illegal.
timschochet
Footballguy
There is no such policy as “catch and release”. It’s a conservative meme used to describe a wide number of regulations, most of which were created by Congress over the years on a bipartisan basis, to protect certain groups of migrants from harsh treatment, like young children. If you want to end some of these laws you need to be more specific about which ones in particular.
timschochet
Footballguy
msommer
Footballguy
The difficulty in getting information was my point. And the solution to the crisis? More money for the judiciary and whover is doing the investigation. More money for a wall? Not so much.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
In United States immigration enforcement, "catch and release" refers to a practice of releasing a migrant to the community while he or she awaits hearings in immigration court, as an alternative to holding them in immigration detention. The migrants whom U.S. immigration enforcement agencies have allowed to remain in the community pending immigrant hearings have been those deemed low risk, such as children, families, and those seeking asylum.
There is no "hard-and-fast definition" of the phrase, which is pejorative. Rather, the phrase refers to a "collection of policies, court precedents, executive actions and federal statutes spanning more than 20 years, cobbled together throughout Democratic and Republican administrations." The Trump administration has used the phrase as a catch-all term for laws or policies preventing the holding of apprehended migrants in immigration detention.
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BroadwayG
Footballguy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
And with the current average wait time of about 2 years, I wonder what the cost to house and care for over half a million immigrants is compared to the societal cost of letting the low-risk people live a free life while awaiting their fate.
joffer
Footballguy
msommer
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
He doesn’t want to house them. He wants to deport them immediately. That’s the whole point.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
msommer
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
In their defense, many conservatives have never believed that the Constitution applies to non-citizens. This point was made over and over during the post 9/11 years when conservatives routinely advocated for torture.
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
JohnnyU (1 hour ago): The Wall is a good idea, and as evidence I'm submitting the fact that Democrats agreed with something similar 6 years ago.
JohnnyU (now): Democrats have bad ideas.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
BroadwayG
Footballguy
Apparently there are some hoping Congress acts to eliminate immigration only at the southern border.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I think the 2013-14 Gang of 8 Bill was good. It was negotiated by Dems and GOP together, it put somewhere around 35-45 billion per year in flexible - not static - border security, enforced the law, and probably represented a fair approximation if what it takes to do what you want. Lindsay Graham supported it and IIRC helped write it. As I understand it a very small number of House Republicans stopped it. I think almost everyone reasonable got almost everything they wanted from that bill.
joffer
Footballguy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
BroadwayG
Footballguy
msommer
Footballguy
Let's be honest for a moment. It's not as if the average American excels at geography.
Everything South of Rio Grande being "Mexico" is not exactly surprising
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The Commish
Footballguy
Think about how many immigration judges we could employ with the billions asked for to put up a worthless wall
badmojo1006
Footballguy
So now you are down to, well the Democrats gave specifics, but I don't like them.
Far cry from the Democrats never give any specifics
Sabertooth
Footballguy
It's funny to me that CNN doesn't realize that the "Chaos" is the only thing Trump cares about. I'd say its not a bug but a feature, but it isn't even that. It's the whole ####### point.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
He keep the goal posts right on the back of the truck so it's easier to move them constantly.
boots11234
Footballguy
I don’t get the “a wall won’t work” crowd. I think a better argument is “for the amount of money spent on a wall it would be better spent on...” if you think all those people running across the border are going to now tunnel under it, climb over it or cut through it you’re not being honest. Israel’s walls work, walls around buildings work this wall would work.
BroadwayG
Footballguy
The primary issue is the insane amount of people trying to get processed legally. A wall won't work to solve that.
timschochet
Footballguy
Israel’s wall works at keeping out terrorists, short term. But it has also served to create economic destitution and isolation in the occupied territories of the West Bank and Gaza, which creates more terrorists in the long run. In terms of the overall security of Israel, it’s been counterproductive.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
So you want a smart fence? Isn't that more in line with what the Dems are proposing?
Sabertooth
Footballguy
boots11234
Footballguy
I bet the people who haven’t been blown up would disagree with you. Also I believe one of the southern walls wasn’t primarily for terrorists but for immigration.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Trump says he wants Israel's border wall. That means he actually wants smart fences.
(N)either Trump nor his television muse appears to realize that Israel generally does not rely upon a wall. And when it does, it is only to combat direct terrorist threats in high-risk areas, not to stop migrants. In fact, a compromise would be to give Trump the "wall" he says he wants like the one in Israel — in other words, a smart fence.
The only concrete or steel wall akin to what Trump has called for runs along less than 10 percent of the West Bank border. It was built in response to a wave of bus bombings and stabbing of Israeli civilians on the streets, after the collapse of the peace process — that is, in response to lethal force used against its citizens.
The rest of Israel’s borders are protected by fences generally 5 1/2 yards high, ground radars, electromagnetic sensors, electro-optic cameras and underground barriers that seal off terrorist tunnels from Hamas radicals in Gaza and Hezbollah terrorists in Lebanon. No comparable security challenge faces America at our southern border. The most recent State Department terrorism report concludes that “there was no credible evidence indicating that international terrorist groups have established bases in Mexico, worked with Mexican drug cartels, or sent operatives via Mexico into the United States.”
timschochet
Footballguy
Many Israelis do agree with me. My argument was made much more eloquently by Ha’aretz, one of their leading newspapers.
In any case none of this is relevant to our situation.
The Commish
Footballguy
This is exactly what most here have ever said...cost benefit is not on the side of the wall people. I broke that down in one of these threads. For the wall to pay for itself (using the conservative's alleged cost of an illegal immigrant of this country) the X miles of wall would have to stop over a million people (and somehow keep them out permanently). It's absurd use of resources.
The Commish
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
But even if you believed, as boots apparently does, that it will work and it is a good use of resources- that still doesn’t justify Trump shutting down the government, and now threatening to shut down the border.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
He wants to shut down the border because it will create more chaos. Its typical Trump; create the problem, then proclaim that only he can fix it. It will be a 2020 campaign rally point. "Look at the chaos at our southern border! And the Dems want OPEN BORDERS!!! THEY WANT TO LET THEM IN!!!2!"
boots11234
Footballguy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
msommer
Footballguy
boots11234
Footballguy
Worse. However I just don’t see the support from Mexico on this so economic pressure is the next step.
Giving Aid hasn’t helped stem this tide. Would be great if the people fleeing, who you all say are here for jobs and are hard working, would perhaps stay in their own country and affect change there through hard work. If they want to come here I think there is a legal process to do so. I just don’t think folks who have the ability to run across the border should by default get preferential treatment over folks from the other side of the world just because they cannot swim across the ocean.
The Commish
Footballguy
[scooter]
Footballguy
Really? You think that the only thing that ever happens at the border is that refugees and illegals try to cross?
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