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Trump issues executive order freezing federal workers' pay in 2019 (1 Viewer)

squistion

squistion

Footballguy
More good news for federal workers:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/29/politics/trump-executive-order-federal-workers-pay-freeze/index.html

Trump issues executive order freezing federal workers' pay in 2019

Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump issued an executive order Friday freezing federal workers' pay for 2019, following through on a proposal he announced earlier in the year.

The move, which nixes a 2.1% across-the-board pay raise that was set to take effect in January, comes as hundreds of thousands of federal employees are expecting to begin the new year furloughed or working without pay because of a partial government shutdown.

Trump told lawmakers he planned to scrap the 2019 pay bump for federal workers in August, saying the federal budget couldn't support it. In addition to the 2.1% pay increase, the executive order also cancels a yearly adjustment of paychecks based on the region of the country where workers are posted, called the "locality pay increase," that was due to take effect in January.

The move does not affect a 2.6% pay increase for US troops next year that was passed as part of the massive defense spending bill Trump signed in August.

Lawmakers could include a pay raise for 2019 in a spending bill to reopen the government, but negotiations have been at an impasse over money for Trump's border wall.

About 380,000 federal employees are on furlough and 420,000 are working without pay as the new year approaches.

In a letter to House and Senate leaders in August, Trump described the pay increase as "inappropriate."

"We must maintain efforts to put our Nation on a fiscally sustainable course, and Federal agency budgets cannot sustain such increases," the President wrote.

Trump also stressed that a pay freeze would not affect the federal government's ability to attract qualified workers. He cited his statutory authority to adjust pay out of "national emergency or serious economic conditions affecting the general welfare."

 
squistion said:
"We must maintain efforts to put our Nation on a fiscally sustainable course, and Federal agency budgets cannot sustain such increases," the President wrote.
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... but we can sustain raises for the military and COLA increases for retired federal employees.  👍

Sorry, taxpayers, but this is one federal employee who is going to be taking his foot off the gas a little in 2019.

 
All shtick aside, it really is an odd message to be sending.

Wage freezes are typical in a shrinking economy, and so to announce a wage freeze now seems like a very odd message to be sending to the market, and to consumers.  It effectively says "we don't have confidence in the economy growing this year!"  And, while that may be true, its anti-Trump to say anything other than "We have the greatest economy in the history of economies!"

 
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squistion said:
Trump also stressed that a pay freeze would not affect the federal government's ability to attract qualified workers. He cited his statutory authority to adjust pay out of "national emergency or serious economic conditions affecting the general welfare."
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These things are totally unrelated.

 
What are some passive aggressive ways for federal workers to get back at trump that aren't dangerous? I was thinking putting Obama's pictures in more prominent places in the capitol, having the housekeeping staff at the WH hide all his snacks, all the batteries from the TV remote removed...that kind of thing.

Maybe all the TSA could wear I love Nancy Pelosi  buttons or something.

 
JamieMurphy said:
What are some passive aggressive ways for federal workers to get back at trump that aren't dangerous? I was thinking putting Obama's pictures in more prominent places in the capitol, having the housekeeping staff at the WH hide all his snacks, all the batteries from the TV remote removed...that kind of thing.

Maybe all the TSA could wear I love Nancy Pelosi  buttons or something.
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Every TV when turned on should be DVR paused on a rerun of The Biggest Loser. 

 
Henry Ford said:
Every TV when turned on should be DVR paused on a rerun of The Biggest Loser. 
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All WH TVs parental controls blocking Fox news!

I don't know the code do you? Nah, been too worried about paying my mortgage to remember such trifling things as the parental control code.

 
JamieMurphy said:
All WH TVs parental controls blocking Fox news!

I don't know the code do you? Nah, been too worried about paying my mortgage to remember such trifling things as the parental control code.
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The White House kitchen should constantly tell him they only have something almost the same as what he wants. 

“I want a cheeseburger with American cheese”

”Absolutely, sir, but we only have diced beef, not ground, and we’re out of American cheese but we have Muenster.  Also, it will be served in a hot dog bun.”

 
JamieMurphy said:
What are some passive aggressive ways for federal workers to get back at trump that aren't dangerous? I was thinking putting Obama's pictures in more prominent places in the capitol, having the housekeeping staff at the WH hide all his snacks, all the batteries from the TV remote removed...that kind of thing.

Maybe all the TSA could wear I love Nancy Pelosi  buttons or something.
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I’ll be happy if they all vote.

 
Everything that Trump does and everything he says is designed to make his base happy. He thinks that can win him reelection. And even if it doesn’t they will still love him. 

 
timschochet said:
Everything that Trump does and everything he says is designed to make his base happy. He thinks that can win him reelection. And even if it doesn’t they will still love him. 
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It is even worse than that, where I work (DOD R&D).

Trump and the Rs want to cut us to the bone because they dislike government employees.

The Ds want to cut the military (and us by extension) because they have us below other things on their priority lists.

Nobody Likes Me !!!!

 
proteus126 said:
It is even worse than that, where I work (DOD R&D).

Trump and the Rs want to cut us to the bone because they dislike government employees.

The Ds want to cut the military (and us by extension) because they have us below other things on their priority lists.

Nobody Likes Me !!!!
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I like you, I'd be okay if the military had one less jet and Flint had clean drinking water, that's all.

 
Fine by me.  Jets are a procurement of mature technology.  One more or less doesn't make much difference.  We are just scaling things.

R&D is very different.  It requires a certain level of investment just to keep the institutional knowledge intact.  You really need continuity.  Building a warship or submarine, with performance requirements based on putative future threats, is a tremendous endeavor.  Establishing requirements and selecting among design options for all the myriad onboard systems takes years, and that is just the beginning.  Some R&D is meshed into the early stages of procurement, and some is standalone ONR-type stuff.  It is all very complex, and requires long memories, deep knowledge of arcane fields, and committment to being good stewards of the money and the lives of the sailors.

End rant - just be aware of how you cut, not just how much.

[Edited to add:  I'll throw in one of the Austal (even-numbered) Littoral Combat Ships to help fund social welfare.  They aren't worth much]

 
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After signing the executive order he's going to have the Republicans put it back in the spending bill then blame it on the Democrats for refusing to bend on the wall. 

He doesn't care about spending.  He's creating a crisis to distract from his legal problems. Then he will do whatever he can to block the mueller report while claiming the Democrats are trying to change the subject. 

Democrats are going to be tested. This could last a while 

 
bostonfred said:
After signing the executive order he's going to have the Republicans put it back in the spending bill then blame it on the Democrats for refusing to bend on the wall. 

He doesn't care about spending.  He's creating a crisis to distract from his legal problems. Then he will do whatever he can to block the mueller report while claiming the Democrats are trying to change the subject. 

Democrats are going to be tested. This could last a while 
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You're giving him way too much credit.  He probably heard some talking head on Fox saying it should be done for whatever reason.

 
Henry Ford said:
The White House kitchen should constantly tell him they only have something almost the same as what he wants. 

“I want a cheeseburger with American cheese”

”Absolutely, sir, but we only have diced beef, not ground, and we’re out of American cheese but we have Muenster.  Also, it will be served in a hot dog bun.”
Click to expand...
I love Muenster!

 
So my wife is talking to our son, a government employee and Trump fan (yes, I failed in my parental skills).  She says, "So you aren't going to get a raise this year?" His response? "No, but we didn't get one the whole time Obama was president, either...well, maybe the first year." A quick Google search shows raises 5 of 8 years during the Obama administration, even though that economy was so much worse than this one (or so the President tells us). So now we have Trump supporters actually creating the lies before he gets the chance. Amazing. 

 
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Yeah he is wrong.  :(

3 years might have been consecutive. It was definitely during the recession period. But definitely got raises under Obama

 
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FWIW, Obama was a huge disappointment for federal employees as well.

Overall, it is getting pretty bad for civilian employees.  Here are the annual pay raises / COLAs since 2010:

Year  Fed  (Military)  ((CSRS))  (((FERS)))

2011 0.0% (1.4%)  ((0.0%))  (((0.0%)))

2012 0.0% (1.6%)  ((3.6%))  (((2.6%)))

2013 0.0% (1.7%)  ((1.7%))  (((1.7%)))

2014 1.0% (1.0%)  ((1.5%))  (((1.5%)))

2015 1.0% (1.0%)  ((1.7%))  (((1.7%)))

2016 1.0% (1.3%)  ((0.0%))  (((0.0%)))

2017 1.0% (2.1%)  ((0.3%))  (((0.3%)))

2018 1.4% (2.4%)  ((2.0%))  (((2.0%)))

2019 0.0% (2.6%)  ((2.8%))  (((2.8%)))

Total 5.5% (16.0%) ((14.3%)) (((13.3%)))

From 2010 through 2018 the CPI has gone from 218.1 to 250.5, a 15% jump.

Another important thing to factor in is that the civilian employee contribution for the pension has increased from 0.8% to 4.4% of paycheck.  This is for people hired since 2014 or so.  That represents a 3.6% "stealth" pay cut for the new generation.  The Republicans would like to increase the employee share to around 7%, by the way.  Of course without a corresponding increase in salary compensation.  And they would also like to extend these numbers to all civilian feds and not just the new hires.

Between the joke raises and the push to make employees pay more for their pension, federal employment is not nearly as competitive as it used to be.  A new hire is now looking at total career (and retirement) purchasing power that is 13% less than the same career promised a decade ago.  If the Republicans get their way regarding the FERS pension employee share, that number jumps to ~16%.

I realize that many "conservatives" will respond by saying this is a nice start.  That is because they are ill informed.  It is actually just about the end.  They don't understand what the civilian federal workforce does or how it impacts everyday citizens.  They probably believe the average federal employee is akin to the angry DMV lady.  In reality feds span all career fields.  Real professionals every bit as sharp and motivated as the private sector heroes who grump about them.  Has the past decade done irreparable harm?  The answer is unfortunately "yes", both financially and from a morale standpoint.

 
I won't be getting a raise in 2019 at all I don't imagine ..... so Fed employee's not getting one doesn't seem all that unfair

 
Bucky86 said:
I thought the economy was booming?
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doesn't mean the Govt isn't seriously overspending

Henry Ford said:
Why not? 
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I suspect it has to do with company performance as well as a pool of money managers have to give out .... some people get raises, some don't and I don't think I over performed in 2018, I met expectations but didn't exceed if I'm honest about it.

Govt should work similar - if the Govt shows positives in performance, if employee's do ... then some get raises. This across the board raise thing rewards everyone equally regardless of govt/business performance or individual .....

 
Stealthycat said:
I won't be getting a raise in 2019 at all I don't imagine ..... so Fed employee's not getting one doesn't seem all that unfair
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My condolences.  2011-2013 was my first experience of that, and it sucked.

Please try to remember, we are not your enemy.  We are not taking food from your mouth to any great degree, and we do provide a service for that cost.  We are not taking your job.  We are normal folks making our way through life, engaged in useful and productive careers.

A 2% pay raise adds about $3B to the federal budget (for all following years), assuming constant dollars, 2M feds, and an average salary of $75K.  That is peanuts.  When a politician claims to be practicing fiscal prudence by holding the line, he is often appealing to your lesser instincts like jealousy and provincialism.

I encourage you to look at the numbers I provided above, and to really think about the issue.  If after thinking about it, you feel that the size or behavior of the federal government civilian workforce is still the problem, I then encourage you to think about whether across the board pay freezes solve the problem you have.  Or do they just chase out the best and brightest, force the worst to stick around a few more years to plug their budgetary holes, and pit groups against each other?

Also, please think about civilian pay vs retiree and military pay.  Are you OK with the different treatment?  If so, why?

 
Stealthycat said:
Govt should work similar - if the Govt shows positives in performance, if employee's do ... then some get raises. This across the board raise thing rewards everyone equally regardless of govt/business performance or individual .....
Click to expand...
Government DOES work that way.  I got a 2% raise for performance, which I feel that I earned by taking on increased responsibility and concluding successful R&D efforts that the Navy will be incorporating into future ships.  I actually earned more than that 2% in my opinion, but our org was only given so much performance money to spread around.  2% was the max given this year.

As an employee, I expect my employer to (a) keep my salary current with inflation and (b) reward me with additional salary increase if my performance has merited it.  If you expect less, maybe you should think about that.  If you don't believe your employer should keep you current vs. CPI, you don't value yourself, your time and your energy properly.

 
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bananafish said:
Trump and his acolytes (read: the Republican party) WANT the government to be incompetent and undesirable to work for. It serves the dual purpose of justifying cutting government programs and "starving the beast."
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1. I'm a Republican.  A GHWB Republican, however.  I'm sorry my party is run by clowns and carpetbaggers.  Nothing I could do about it.

2. They are going about it the wrong way.  Those functions need to be done - the American people have said so.  If the American people won't staff up with competent feds, they will end up paying contractors to perform them.  Have fun with that <cough> DDG-1000 <cough> LCS-2 <cough>.  By starving the beast with broadly applied cuts, they end up "keeping only the bums".

 
proteus126 said:
Do they also "brace for good times" and up your pay in advance?
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Uh, no. But they too will end up losing some good people that look for better paying jobs elsewhere in 2019. 

No real point that I'm making here, just saying that the economy is not rock solid at this point.

I do think that federal workers, certainly the "non-essential" workers should be allowed to organize and strike for wage increases and benefits.

 
The Z Machine said:
Uh, no. But they too will end up losing some good people that look for better paying jobs elsewhere in 2019. 

No real point that I'm making here, just saying that the economy is not rock solid at this point.

I do think that federal workers, certainly the "non-essential" workers should be allowed to organize and strike for wage increases and benefits.
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I guess where I was going was to see if the part of the company's compensation was in the form of stocks or profit-sharing.  If so, then I have no issue with changing posture, since the worker will see a bump once the company successfully navigates tough times.  Win-win.

By its nature the Fed Gov can't do that.  The most reasonable alternative is to just peg pay rates to the CPI, and overlay that with performance incentives.  We would lag reality, so in a bad recession we might be still getting a 2% raise (see our 2.9% raise in 2009).  But when the economy is rising again we might still be stuck at 0% (see 2011-2013, for chrissakes).  It all washes out - this isn't that hard, folks.

 
bostonfred said:
After signing the executive order he's going to have the Republicans put it back in the spending bill then blame it on the Democrats for refusing to bend on the wall. 

He doesn't care about spending.  He's creating a crisis to distract from his legal problems. Then he will do whatever he can to block the mueller report while claiming the Democrats are trying to change the subject. 

Democrats are going to be tested. This could last a while 
Click to expand...
The Senate already included a pay raise in the bill they had passed. With Democrats taking over the House, I am cautiously optimistic that they'll include it.

 
bananafish said:
My dad used to work for the Department of Energy (and Defense I think) at the National Ignition Facility at Lawrence Livermore National Lab. He's a right-leaning independent but one of the reasons he finally retired was Rick Perry. I can't imagine having incurious science-deniers questioning the work of PhDs is great for morale. And, like you said, this is happening all over government.
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Oh yeah.  We have robbers, vandals and clowns at the top levels.  If they were smart enough to not believe their own BS, I'd call them traitors.

 
I thought the idea of the ridiculous tax cuts was to put money into people's pockets, they spend it, helps economy.

Why wouldn't this apply to giving people who are working a pay increase to keep them on par with inflation?

How Republicans convince poor people to vote against their own interests is just one of those mysteries I'll never get.

 
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proteus126 said:
FWIW, Obama was a huge disappointment for federal employees as well.

Overall, it is getting pretty bad for civilian employees.  Here are the annual pay raises / COLAs since 2010:

Year  Fed  (Military)  ((CSRS))  (((FERS)))

2011 0.0% (1.4%)  ((0.0%))  (((0.0%)))

2012 0.0% (1.6%)  ((3.6%))  (((2.6%)))

2013 0.0% (1.7%)  ((1.7%))  (((1.7%)))

2014 1.0% (1.0%)  ((1.5%))  (((1.5%)))

2015 1.0% (1.0%)  ((1.7%))  (((1.7%)))

2016 1.0% (1.3%)  ((0.0%))  (((0.0%)))

2017 1.0% (2.1%)  ((0.3%))  (((0.3%)))

2018 1.4% (2.4%)  ((2.0%))  (((2.0%)))

2019 0.0% (2.6%)  ((2.8%))  (((2.8%)))

Total 5.5% (16.0%) ((14.3%)) (((13.3%)))

From 2010 through 2018 the CPI has gone from 218.1 to 250.5, a 15% jump.

Another important thing to factor in is that the civilian employee contribution for the pension has increased from 0.8% to 4.4% of paycheck.  This is for people hired since 2014 or so.  That represents a 3.6% "stealth" pay cut for the new generation.  The Republicans would like to increase the employee share to around 7%, by the way.  Of course without a corresponding increase in salary compensation.  And they would also like to extend these numbers to all civilian feds and not just the new hires.

Between the joke raises and the push to make employees pay more for their pension, federal employment is not nearly as competitive as it used to be.  A new hire is now looking at total career (and retirement) purchasing power that is 13% less than the same career promised a decade ago.  If the Republicans get their way regarding the FERS pension employee share, that number jumps to ~16%.

I realize that many "conservatives" will respond by saying this is a nice start.  That is because they are ill informed.  It is actually just about the end.  They don't understand what the civilian federal workforce does or how it impacts everyday citizens.  They probably believe the average federal employee is akin to the angry DMV lady.  In reality feds span all career fields.  Real professionals every bit as sharp and motivated as the private sector heroes who grump about them.  Has the past decade done irreparable harm?  The answer is unfortunately "yes", both financially and from a morale standpoint.
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What source is this ... because those aren't the amounts I received :oldunsure:

But you are on point with the rest of your post.  I see it first hand

There was a small period where it was 3.1 before it went to 4.4

 
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proteus126 said:
Fine by me.  Jets are a procurement of mature technology.  One more or less doesn't make much difference.  We are just scaling things.

R&D is very different.  It requires a certain level of investment just to keep the institutional knowledge intact.  You really need continuity.  Building a warship or submarine, with performance requirements based on putative future threats, is a tremendous endeavor.  Establishing requirements and selecting among design options for all the myriad onboard systems takes years, and that is just the beginning.  Some R&D is meshed into the early stages of procurement, and some is standalone ONR-type stuff.  It is all very complex, and requires long memories, deep knowledge of arcane fields, and committment to being good stewards of the money and the lives of the sailors.

End rant - just be aware of how you cut, not just how much.

[Edited to add:  I'll throw in one of the Austal (even-numbered) Littoral Combat Ships to help fund social welfare.  They aren't worth much]
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Is that all? In that case, feel free to take your foot off the gas.

 
According to Trump’s figures, we will save 25 billion by not suspending these increases. With good reason I don’t trust any of Trump’s figures, but let’s assume for the moment he’s right. 

The current annual deficit is 890 billion. All things being equal this would mean the next annual deficit will be 865 billion. Somebody has to explain to me why 865 billion is so much more significant than 890 billion as to make it worthwhile to do this. 

 
belljr said:
What source is this ... because those aren't the amounts I received :oldunsure:

But you are on point with the rest of your post.  I see it first hand

There was a small period where it was 3.1 before it went to 4.4
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The numbers were from Googling.  Could be rough around the edges but fundamentally correct.

I remember the 3.1% initial bump.  That covered folks hired in CY 2013 only ( I think)

 
timschochet said:
According to Trump’s figures, we will save 25 billion by not suspending these increases. With good reason I don’t trust any of Trump’s figures, but let’s assume for the moment he’s right. 

The current annual deficit is 890 billion. All things being equal this would mean the next annual deficit will be 865 billion. Somebody has to explain to me why 865 billion is so much more significant than 890 billion as to make it worthwhile to do this. 
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That 25 billion is probably the savings over the next 10 years.  Should save about 3 billion per year.  Peanuts.

 
proteus126 said:
A 2% pay raise adds about $3B to the federal budget (for all following years), assuming constant dollars, 2M feds, and an average salary of $75K.  That is peanuts.  When a politician claims to be practicing fiscal prudence by holding the line, he is often appealing to your lesser instincts like jealousy and provincialism.
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its not personal at all

$3 billion ..... peanuts ....... but yet that's +/- what's keeping the Govt shut down right now

I would, if I could, run it like a business ........... give a pool of money, the outstanding people get raises, the average dont and the underperforming gets a mark so when job cutting comes, they're the first to go

 
proteus126 said:
Government DOES work that way.  I got a 2% raise for performance, which I feel that I earned by taking on increased responsibility and concluding successful R&D efforts that the Navy will be incorporating into future ships.  I actually earned more than that 2% in my opinion, but our org was only given so much performance money to spread around.  2% was the max given this year.

As an employee, I expect my employer to (a) keep my salary current with inflation and (b) reward me with additional salary increase if my performance has merited it.  If you expect less, maybe you should think about that.  If you don't believe your employer should keep you current vs. CPI, you don't value yourself, your time and your energy properly.
Click to expand...
well good

if you expect that from your employer, and your employer doesn't come through ... quit and find another job somewhere ? nobody forces you to work there, right ?

 
timschochet said:
According to Trump’s figures, we will save 25 billion by not suspending these increases. With good reason I don’t trust any of Trump’s figures, but let’s assume for the moment he’s right. 

The current annual deficit is 890 billion. All things being equal this would mean the next annual deficit will be 865 billion. Somebody has to explain to me why 865 billion is so much more significant than 890 billion as to make it worthwhile to do this. 
Click to expand...
The only way to grow ourselves out of the fiscal deficit is to cut government employee pay raises. That will jump start the economy and we will show 4%, 5%, maybe even higher GDP growth.

 
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