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fantasycurse42

Nick Foles Landing Spot/Contract Size (Jags, reportedly 4/88 50 guaranteed)

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18 minutes ago, dhockster said:

Really? You don't think his Super Bowl run last year or his end of season run this year moves the market for him at all? My opinion of him has changed as his time with Jeff Fisher and the Rams looks more like the outlier rather than his 1st season under Chip Kelly.

If the Super Bowl run moved the needle we would have received a lot of offers for him. His run this year looked just like his career. 

The Jeff Fisher days are overhyped too. Scouts and GM’s still value that tape. 

Theres nothing about him now that wasnt there already from a physical standpoint.  He moves in the pocket the same, same arm etc. He didn’t reinvent himself. He found a system that worked for him in short spurts. 

Edited by Bigboy10182000

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3 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

If the Super Bowl run moved the needle we would have received a lot of offers for him. His run this year looked just like his career. 

The Jeff Fisher days are overhyped too. Scouts and GM’s still value that tape. 

Sorry if you already gave numbers but what do you think his next contract looks like?

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1 minute ago, DocHolliday said:

Sorry if you already gave numbers but what do you think his next contract looks like?

His BEST shot is a deal similar to Keenum’s or Dalton’s. That’s his max. 

But I can totally see someone like Bridgewater getting that deal and Foles being left on the outside looking in. 

Also factor in Flacco will probably be cut too and team that need QB’s are all within striking distance of being able to draft one. 

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21 minutes ago, dhockster said:

Really? You don't think his Super Bowl run last year or his end of season run this year moves the market for him at all? My opinion of him has changed as his time with Jeff Fisher and the Rams looks more like the outlier rather than his 1st season under Chip Kelly.

I think his numbers with the Rams are worse because Jeff Fisher isn't a quarterback friendly coach.  I also think his great year under Chip Kelly was largely result of the Kelly's system being new to the league. Year two under Kelly, he was very average.  Both are definitely outliers.  But you certainly can't decide to discount the one but keep in the other.  It's all part of the body of work that teams look at when deciding how much of an investment they want to put into the guy.

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4 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

His BEST shot is a deal similar to Keenum’s or Dalton’s. That’s his max. 

But I can totally see someone like Bridgewater getting that deal and Foles being left on the outside looking in. 

Also factor in Flacco will probably be cut too and team that need QB’s are all within striking distance of being able to draft one. 

I have to disagree on Bridgewater. WAY more question marks than Foles.  He had a devastating knee injury and we still haven't seen if he's the same player. And while he was more consistent than Foles has been over his career, I don't think he was ever as good as Foles has shown he can be in sports.  I'd be surprised Bridgewater is ever a starter again.

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1 minute ago, JuniorNB said:

I have to disagree on Bridgewater. WAY more question marks than Foles.  He had a devastating knee injury and we still haven't seen if he's the same player. And while he was more consistent than Foles has been over his career, I don't think he was ever as good as Foles has shown he can be in sports.  I'd be surprised Bridgewater is ever a starter again.

The league pays for potential 

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Just now, Bigboy10182000 said:

The league pays for potential 

Oh I thin he'll be signed because of that potential.  I doubt a team has plans of opening up 2019 with him as their quarterback though.  Someone will sign Foles as their starter.

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6 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Oh I thin he'll be signed because of that potential.  I doubt a team has plans of opening up 2019 with him as their quarterback though.  Someone will sign Foles as their starter.

It would not shock me at all to see someone start Bridgewater and Foles get a bridge deal.

I don't think there's going to be the openings everyone predicts either though

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I hear what Bigboy and JuniorNB are saying about Foles. I still think based on the optics of the last 2 seasons, someone signs him to a 3 year deal worth about $75 million. I think the Jags make a lot of sense.

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2 hours ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

I think people overthink this. 

The league showed you what they thought of him when he was a FA a couple years ago. Also Philly had no offers on him when he was available this past off-season. 

If his tape was strong he would have had stronger interest after the Rams and after KC. His numbers in Philly are on par with his career numbers and he looks the same. 

If there’s any completion on the market he may be taking back-up/ bridge money again 

 

This is patently false, stop trying to sell it. 

I have a bunch of your stuff quoted anyways, you're going to be proven wildly incorrect. Did the guy run over your dog or something?

 

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1 minute ago, dhockster said:

I hear what Bigboy and JuniorNB are saying about Foles. I still think based on the optics of the last 2 seasons, someone signs him to a 3 year deal worth about $75 million. I think the Jags make a lot of sense.

Nobody bashes the guy more than Eagles fans, it's pretty funny. 

They then come around and say "no, that isn't what we're saying, we love him!"

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2 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Nobody bashes the guy more than Eagles fans, it's pretty funny. 

They then come around and say "no, that isn't what we're saying, we love him!"

I think us Eagle fans generally go by the Animal House Mantra: "you can't talk that way about our players, only we can talk that way about our players!"

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38 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

This is patently false, stop trying to sell it. 

I have a bunch of your stuff quoted anyways, you're going to be proven wildly incorrect. Did the guy run over your dog or something?

 

False? You had one rumor of him to Cleveland and that was pretty much debunked by people in the know and later confirmed by someone I know personally

Your defense is the only thing strange.  I state my opinion in the Eagles thread and you argue over and over to the point you create a thread on the subject.  Keep my stuff quoted and right or wrong I wont care lol.  I don't know Foles personally but you seem wildly defensive of him lol

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43 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Nobody bashes the guy more than Eagles fans, it's pretty funny. 

They then come around and say "no, that isn't what we're saying, we love him!"

Yeah, it's called objective criticism lol.  No one is perfect and you can point out their flaws while still loving them. Adults get it

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5 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

False? You had one rumor of him to Cleveland and that was pretty much debunked by people in the know and later confirmed by someone I know personally

:lmao:

Tell Jeffrey Lurie & Howie FC42 from the internet says hi. 

Edited by fantasycurse42

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5 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

:lmao:

Tell Jeffrey Lurie & Howie FC42 from the internet says hi. 

These guys are always the best lol. Anyone else?

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7 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

:lmao:

Tell Jeffrey Lurie & Howie FC42 from the internet says hi. 

Pretty sure Bigboy works for the team.

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1 minute ago, Amused to Death said:

Pretty sure Bigboy works for the team.

I can only hope that is true, will make this even more amusing when Foles gets his new deal. 

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9 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

I can only hope that is true, will make this even more amusing when Foles gets his new deal. 

Only if he gets it from the Eagles 👍 

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1 hour ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Nobody bashes the guy more than Eagles fans, it's pretty funny. 

They then come around and say "no, that isn't what we're saying, we love him!"

No one bashes him. I don't know one Eagles fan who doesn't love him. Conversations take that turn when people start posting nonsense about retiring his number or that the Eagles should keep him and get rid of Wentz.  Sometimes you have to break out the facts (and stats) to get people back to reality.

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1 hour ago, dhockster said:

I hear what Bigboy and JuniorNB are saying about Foles. I still think based on the optics of the last 2 seasons, someone signs him to a 3 year deal worth about $75 million. I think the Jags make a lot of sense.

I agree on three years. I think your dollars are a little high though.  He'll get more per year than Case Keenum (18 mill).  But I don't think he'll hit 25.  Best thing that could happen to him is if two teams want him badly. If he can play two teams against each other, it could approach 25 million, I suppose. I think Difilipo in Jacksonville would love to have him.  They were on that awesome playoff ride together last year.  I just don't know if there's another team that would invest that much.  He'd be an improvement for the Giants and Redskins but I'm not aware of their cap situation and I know they still have Manning and A. Smith under contract.  Not sure they could fork out a whole lot at this point.  I'm hearing Miami is a possibility too, but is he a definite improvement over Tannehill? And what's his contract situation?   Should be an interesting offseason.for our boy.

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5 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

No one bashes him. I don't know one Eagles fan who doesn't love him. Conversations take that turn when people start posting nonsense about retiring his number or that the Eagles should keep him and get rid of Wentz.  Sometimes you have to break out the facts (and stats) to get people back to reality.

Please break them out for me... You know what, I'll do it for you, because I'm a nice guy. In the spirit of being a nice guy, I won't even include his postseason stats either:

Nick Foles:

Record as a starter for Philly; 21-11 

Passing; 748 out of 1189 (63%), 8703 yards, 7.3 yards attempt, 58 TDs, 23 INTs (272 yards per game, 1.81 TDs per game, .71 INTs per game)

Carson Wentz:

Record as a starter for Philly; 23-17

Passing; 923 out of 1448 (63.7%), 10,152 yards, 7.01 yards attempt, 70 TDs, 28 INTs (253.8 yards per game, 1.75 TDs per game, .7 INTs per game)

Tell me about these stats again

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7 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Please break them out for me... You know what, I'll do it for you, because I'm a nice guy. In the spirit of being a nice guy, I won't even include his postseason stats either:

Nick Foles:

Record as a starter for Philly; 21-11 

Passing; 748 out of 1189 (63%), 8703 yards, 7.3 yards attempt, 58 TDs, 23 INTs (272 yards per game, 1.81 TDs per game, .71 INTs per game)

Carson Wentz:

Record as a starter for Philly; 23-17

Passing; 923 out of 1448 (63.7%), 10,152 yards, 7.01 yards attempt, 70 TDs, 28 INTs (253.8 yards per game, 1.75 TDs per game, .7 INTs per game)

Tell me about these stats again

 

So, fairly comparable passing stats.  Now include their rushing stats.

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2 minutes ago, bryhamm said:

 

So, fairly comparable passing stats.  Now include their rushing stats.

He has a narrative he refuses to come off of for some reason. 

His stats are strictly in Philly and and they’re skewed. Show them as they are or in this system if you want a better picture

To be fair, people pick and choose what they remember Foles doing. Wentz has been much better under the same system:

Wentz: 841 for 6356, 54:14 (8.1 AY/A)

Foles: 473 for 3400, 21:11 (7.0 AY/A)

Wentz ~ '18 Rodgers/Wentz

Foles ~ '18 Tannehill/Dalton

AY/A Value (yards above/below average) the last two years when you adjust for defense faced:

Goff +1520

Brees +1494

Mahomes +1343

Brady +1339

Rivers +1271

Wilson +1121

Watson +1015

Wentz +1000

Foles -481

The distance between Wentz/Foles is the distance from QB1 to NFL average.

And what's really amazing is that nobody is comfortable taking this evidence and flipping it back onto the coaching staff. 2017 is characterized as the great Foles run when really it's the great Doug run.

 

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I forget what I said earlier in the thread but I see Nick being released at this point. So as a pure free agent, his agent should be looking for  a 4 year, $85-90 deal. They might ask for a 4yr $100m deal and wouldn't be totally unjustified but I'd say it gets negotiated down to about 4 yr $88m with at least $45m guaranteed. 

There are currently 16 QBs in the league making more than $20m per year. Some of those names include Garropolo, Stafford, Flacco, Eli, and Carr. He's getting more than $20m per year easy or his agent should be fired. The only question is years and how much guaranteed. 4 years is a nice number for a 30 year old QB that has had some great success but also some mediocrity. You are committing to him but not for the rest of his career. It's fair for both sides. 

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37 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

No one bashes him. I don't know one Eagles fan who doesn't love him

This. 

I’ve posted what I THINK he’ll get on the open market and why. This thread is littered with predictions yet I’m attacked for mine in the Eagles thread to the point he creates a thread. It’s strange. 

He has some soul searching to do to find out why our opinion matters so much to him. We’ll see and if we’re wrong who cares? If we’re right who cares?  Or am I supposed to rub his nose in it? Lol

Edited by Bigboy10182000

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Just now, bryhamm said:

 

So, fairly comparable passing stats.  Now include their rushing stats.

I'll do that, and I'll also include their win percentages and playoff records, along with those postseason accomplishments/accolades. Should I include their injury track records too? One would think rushing might make a QB more vulnerable to injury.

Nick Foles:

Record as a starter for Philly; 21-11 (65.6% winning percentage)

Passing; 748 out of 1189 (63%), 8703 yards, 7.3 yards attempt, 58 TDs, 23 INTs (272 yards per game, 1.81 TDs per game, .71 INTs per game)

Rushing;  104 for 351 yards, 4 TDs, 11 yards per game

Playoffs; 143 out of 210 (68%), 1633 yards, 7.8 yards per attempt, 11 TDs, 5 INTs, 1 Rushing TD, 1 RECEIVING TD, 4-2 Record, Super Bowl MVP

Carson Wentz:

Record as a starter for Philly; 23-17 (57.5% winning percentage)

Passing; 923 out of 1448 (63.7%), 10,152 yards, 7.01 yards attempt, 70 TDs, 28 INTs (253.8 yards per game, 1.75 TDs per game, .7 INTs per game)

Rushing; 144 for 542 yards, 2 TDs 13.6 yards per game

Playoffs; ???

 

 

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So those are their stats as Eagles, are those the stats that bring us back to reality that JuniorNB referenced? 

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5 minutes ago, Insein said:

There are currently 16 QBs in the league making more than $20m per year. Some of those names include Garropolo, Stafford, Flacco, Eli, and Carr.

They were all considered franchise QB’s at the time those deals were done. Do you think someone views Foles the same way? 

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2 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

So those are their stats as Eagles, are those the stats that bring us back to reality that JuniorNB referenced? 

I love how you remove Foles’ stats cause Fisher but keep that Kelly guys stats cause they fit your narrative. Well done. 

Lets go straight up career or careers under the only good coach they have. Seem fair? Probably not I assume...

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1 minute ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

They were all considered franchise QB’s at the time those deals were done. Do you think someone views Foles the same way? 

Foles agent will sell it that way. If you're a team trying to get him this off-season, you're getting him to be your starter for the foreseeable future. You're not getting him on a bridge starter deal or a backup deal.

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Just now, Bigboy10182000 said:

I love how you remove Foles’ stats cause Fisher but keep that Kelly guys stats cause they fit your narrative. Well done. 

Lets go straight up career or careers under the only good coach they have. Seem fair? Probably not I assume...

I'm comparing Eagle to Eagle, seems like a fair comparison, sorry one has a much better looking career in that city to date. 

They can clearly be great with Foles, I'm glad they gave zero thought to keeping him. We'll see how it shakes out. 

Nothing would make me happier than having this guy land on the Giants and haunting Philly for the next 7 years or so. 

 

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Also to note, BigBoy's exact quote in the Philly thread:

Quote

Foles won't get $40mm guaranteed even if he led them to another Super Bowl this season

:lmao:

 

Edited by fantasycurse42
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34 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

They were all considered franchise QB’s at the time those deals were done. Do you think someone views Foles the same way? 

 

30 minutes ago, Insein said:

Foles agent will sell it that way. If you're a team trying to get him this off-season, you're getting him to be your starter for the foreseeable future. You're not getting him on a bridge starter deal or a backup deal.

They can attempt to sell it that way for sure.  I'd expect nothing less.  My question is still the same though.  Do you think someone sees him as a franchise QB? That's the ultimate question.  If someone believes he's getting 20+ million per year that team is calling him a franchise QB. 

 

28 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

I'm comparing Eagle to Eagle, seems like a fair comparison, sorry one has a much better looking career in that city to date. 

They can clearly be great with Foles, I'm glad they gave zero thought to keeping him. We'll see how it shakes out. 

Nothing would make me happier than having this guy land on the Giants and haunting Philly for the next 7 years or so. 

 

You're lying.  You're including Kelly's numbers cause they help your flailing attempt at a point. Go career to career or use Doug as the coach.  It makes you look even more ridiculous when you nix Fisher's stats but keep Kelly's

Edited by Bigboy10182000

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2 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Also to note, BigBoy's exact quote in the Philly thread:

:lmao:

 

And sadly we will never know the answer...

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Just now, Bigboy10182000 said:

And sadly we will never know the answer...

Well, if he gets $40mm guaranteed now, it will make your quote look even more silly. 

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4 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Nothing would make me happier than having this guy land on the Giants and haunting Philly for the next 7 years or so.

Save this one too please:

Foles will not be in the NFL in 7 years

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Just now, fantasycurse42 said:

Well, if he gets $40mm guaranteed now, it will make your quote look even more silly. 

Correct.  I'd be shocked, happy for him and you lol

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41 minutes ago, bryhamm said:

 

So, fairly comparable passing stats.  Now include their rushing stats.

Rushing and receiving TDs

Foles 6 (One is iconic) 

Wentz 2

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40 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Please break them out for me... You know what, I'll do it for you, because I'm a nice guy. In the spirit of being a nice guy, I won't even include his postseason stats either:

Nick Foles:

Record as a starter for Philly; 21-11 

Passing; 748 out of 1189 (63%), 8703 yards, 7.3 yards attempt, 58 TDs, 23 INTs (272 yards per game, 1.81 TDs per game, .71 INTs per game)

Carson Wentz:

Record as a starter for Philly; 23-17

Passing; 923 out of 1448 (63.7%), 10,152 yards, 7.01 yards attempt, 70 TDs, 28 INTs (253.8 yards per game, 1.75 TDs per game, .7 INTs per game)

Tell me about these stats again

The good part of Foles' stats came in Chip Kelly's first year. It was a fluke, as the following year, when teams had film and adjusted, Chips' offense, and Foles, were both very average.  I posted earlier that Foles great year under Chip and his bad year under Fisher cancel each other out.  If you're including them in his Eagles stats, it skews the numbers.

Here's a stat. In the playoffs, where Foles is supposed to ne Mr Magic, he completed 60% of his passes with 3 Tds and 4 Ints. And combined with the regular season, he had 10 Tds and 8 Interception.  Wentz had 21 Tds and only 7 Interception.   These are the stats of a healthy Foles and an injured Wentz. That makes the separation even more staggering.

How you like those stats?

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35 minutes ago, Insein said:

I forget what I said earlier in the thread but I see Nick being released at this point. So as a pure free agent, his agent should be looking for  a 4 year, $85-90 deal. They might ask for a 4yr $100m deal and wouldn't be totally unjustified but I'd say it gets negotiated down to about 4 yr $88m with at least $45m guaranteed. 

There are currently 16 QBs in the league making more than $20m per year. Some of those names include Garropolo, Stafford, Flacco, Eli, and Carr. He's getting more than $20m per year easy or his agent should be fired. The only question is years and how much guaranteed. 4 years is a nice number for a 30 year old QB that has had some great success but also some mediocrity. You are committing to him but not for the rest of his career. It's fair for both sides. 

I had him at/around the same before he went on another run this season. 

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31 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

So those are their stats as Eagles, are those the stats that bring us back to reality that JuniorNB referenced? 

:whistle:

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3 hours ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

The league pays for potential 

Plenty more people get fired over potential as well

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20 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

The good part of Foles' stats came in Chip Kelly's first year. It was a fluke, as the following year, when teams had film and adjusted, Chips' offense, and Foles, were both very average.  I posted earlier that Foles great year under Chip and his bad year under Fisher cancel each other out.  If you're including them in his Eagles stats, it skews the numbers.

Here's a stat. In the playoffs, where Foles is supposed to ne Mr Magic, he completed 60% of his passes with 3 Tds and 4 Ints. And combined with the regular season, he had 10 Tds and 8 Interception.  Wentz had 21 Tds and only 7 Interception.   These are the stats of a healthy Foles and an injured Wentz. That makes the separation even more staggering.

How you like those stats?

So these aren't their stats as Eagles, you need to update your sentence:

Stats I cherrypick to prove my point.

What were their records, btw? I forget, refresh my memory. 

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One stat that's somewhat being ignored is that since Chip Kelly, Nick Foles has won dam near 80% of his games where he's played most of the snaps as an Eagle. 

 

I doubt I get quoted much for this one. 

 

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I love what Nick Foles did for the Eagles.  I wish nothing but success going forward, except when he plays against the Eagles!  Wentz is the immediate future of the Eagles for better or worse. I hope he helps win us a couple of SBs.

My prediction for Foles is Jax, with the Giants being a possibility as well.  Don't know how much he'll be paid but I'm sure his family will be secure.

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6 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

What were their records, btw? I forget, refresh my memory. 

It's 2019 dude.

5 minutes ago, ShaHBucks said:

One stat that's somewhat being ignored is that since Chip Kelly, Nick Foles has won dam near 80% of his games where he's played most of the snaps as an Eagle. 

 

I doubt I get quoted much for this one. 

 

And yet that same HC used to mockingly talk about Foles and then traded him for Sam Bradford.....

You know as well as I do why they won during that time. Ironically after we cut that Shady guy and Jackson and many others we suddenly started to lose lol

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12 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

So these aren't their stats as Eagles, you need to update your sentence:

Stats I cherrypick to prove my point.

What were their records, btw? I forget, refresh my memory. 

I gave you this year's stats.  Even not near 100%, Wentz outperformed Foles.  I'm quite sure teams will put more weight on how a guy is currently performing than how he did in 2013.

Stick around son.  You're about to get an education in your boy's value. Shortly thereafter, you'll what Wentz signs for.   Check back with me. :popcorn:

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3 hours ago, JuniorNB said:

I have to disagree on Bridgewater. WAY more question marks than Foles.  He had a devastating knee injury and we still haven't seen if he's the same player. And while he was more consistent than Foles has been over his career, I don't think he was ever as good as Foles has shown he can be in sports.  I'd be surprised Bridgewater is ever a starter again.

There's nothing tangible to cite, but given the buzz around Teddy before the injury and how hard it hit the team afterwards I think everyone believed he was about to take off.  Neck-up he isn't any different than before.  Probably a whole lot tougher than he already was, but he had already displayed that toughness in college.  From a physical and mechanical perspective will he ever be the same?  Fair question.  Nobody outside of those with access to his medical really know for sure either.  If that's signed off on I'd rather bet on him than Foles.

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