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Nick Foles Landing Spot/Contract Size (Jags, reportedly 4/88 50 guaranteed)

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7 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

I'm quite sure teams will put more weight on how a guy is currently performing than how he did in 2013.

Not to sidetrack the thread but outside of like Josh Gordon, who else do we do this with?

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9 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

I gave you this year's stats.  Even not near 100%, Wentz outperformed Foles.  I'm quite sure teams will put more weight on how a guy is currently performing than how he did in 2013.

Stick around son.  You're about to get an education in your boy's value. Shortly thereafter, you'll what Wentz signs for.   Check back with me. :popcorn:

I don't recall anyone saying Wentz wouldn't get a huge contract, not one single poster in this thread once, but I'll stick around anyways. 

 

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1 minute ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

Not to sidetrack the thread but outside of like Josh Gordon, who else do we do this with?

Nick Foles has certainly become a mythical legend in some people's minds.  They think a 60% 3 TD, 4 INT playoff run is good. They act like his 27/2 season was recent, and they decided to totally delete the last time he was awarded a starting job for team because they don't like they he was terrible and lost the job halfway through the season. Yet Carson Wentz rushes back early from a devastating knee injury and completes 70% of his passes with 21 TDs and 7 INTs and they act like he let the city down. :lol:

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1 minute ago, fantasycurse42 said:

I don't recall anyone saying Wentz wouldn't get a huge contract, not one single poster in this thread once, but I'll stick around anyways. 

 

Why would he get more than Foles?

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Just now, JuniorNB said:

Why would he get more than Foles?

BC the Eagles view him as the future - isn't that obvious :shrug:

Foles is like Rodney Dangerfield, no respect. 

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4 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

BC the Eagles view him as the future - isn't that obvious :shrug:

Foles is like Rodney Dangerfield, no respect. 

He went from a Kansas City Chiefs benchwarmer in 2016 on the verge of retiring to being a free agent who's going to sign for 20 million a year.  ROFL.  Yeah, poor guy is so disrespected.

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59 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

The good part of Foles' stats came in Chip Kelly's first year. It was a fluke, as the following year, when teams had film and adjusted, Chips' offense, and Foles, were both very average.  I posted earlier that Foles great year under Chip and his bad year under Fisher cancel each other out.  If you're including them in his Eagles stats, it skews the numbers.

Here's a stat. In the playoffs, where Foles is supposed to ne Mr Magic, he completed 60% of his passes with 3 Tds and 4 Ints. And combined with the regular season, he had 10 Tds and 8 Interception.  Wentz had 21 Tds and only 7 Interception.   These are the stats of a healthy Foles and an injured Wentz. That makes the separation even more staggering.

How you like those stats?

Just for accuracy, while Foles was average in 2014 (81.4 QB rating), The Eagles offense was not, ranking 3rd in points scored and 5th in yardage. The big difference between 13 and 14? In 2013, the Eagles had the 4th fewest turnovers, in 2014 they had the most turnovers.

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2 hours ago, fantasycurse42 said:

 

Foles is like Rodney Dangerfield, no respect. 

He somehow bounced a pass off a defenders knee into Agholor's arms leading to a TD against Atlanta. The same team that inexplicably couldn't score with 4 plays 1st and goal to end the game while calling 4 of the worst plays in goal to go history .

Without those 2 miracles this thread doesnt exist

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8 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

He somehow bounced a pass off a defenders knee into Agholor's arms leading to a TD against Atlanta. The same team that inexplicably couldn't score with 4 plays 1st and goal to end the game while calling 4 of the worst plays in goal to go history .

Without those 2 miracles this thread doesnt exist

And if the ball doesn't go through Alshon Jeffery's hands on Sunday and straight into a defender's hands, the thread is even more crazy.  There's a bit of luck in every player's successes and failures.  

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56 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

And if the ball doesn't go through Alshon Jeffery's hands on Sunday and straight into a defender's hands, the thread is even more crazy.  

Maybe

We don't know what would have happened if that ball wasn't picked.

We know what happened vs Atl

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Why can't Wentz be great and better than Foles but Foles still gets a big payday?   Wentz has the potential to be one of the best QBs in 2019 and years after.   Foles is getting a starters contract soon.   

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2 hours ago, DocHolliday said:

Why can't Wentz be great and better than Foles but Foles still gets a big payday?   Wentz has the potential to be one of the best QBs in 2019 and years after.   Foles is getting a starters contract soon.   

This is exactly what's going to happen. 

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20 hours ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

I think people overthink this. 

The league showed you what they thought of him when he was a FA a couple years ago. Also Philly had no offers on him when he was available this past off-season.

Well as to your first point, I think it’s safe to say something very dramatic has happened between his season in KC and the present.

My understanding was that the Eagles were offered at least one second round pick but they wanted two firsts for him (or one first?), so I’m not sure that’s telling.

There is zero percent chance there’s no interest on him this offseason.

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4 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Well as to your first point, I think it’s safe to say something very dramatic has happened between his season in KC and the present.

My understanding was that the Eagles were offered at least one second round pick but they wanted two firsts for him (or one first?), so I’m not sure that’s telling.

There is zero percent chance there’s no interest on him this offseason.

His numbers pre-KC and post KC are nearly the same. He just had better coaching here. 

That was a Mike Silver special....we were  allegedly offered the Brows 2nd round pick. Made a lot of sense considering they had Tyrod and were drafting Mayfield....

No on ever said there would be zero interest but the market will not be as big as many think IMO. 

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On 1/17/2019 at 10:55 AM, ZenoRazon said:

All "we" know is the Eagles play better with Foles at the helm, this is a fact.

THIS.....

 

is not a fact.  People are still far too quick to fprget what a healthy Wentz looked like in 2017

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On 1/17/2019 at 2:53 PM, Anarchy99 said:

Since Wentz tore up his knee, PHI went 5-6 with Wentz, who had a 102.2 QB rating this year. Looking at the end of last year and the end of this year, Foles led PHI to a 10-2 record (ignoring Week 17 last year when Sudfield was the primary QB against DAL) with a 95.2 passer rating.

A healthy Wentz is a better and more dynamic player overall, but the Eagles seem to play better and win more with Foles. Not sure there would be a huge dropoff if they stuck with Foles, especially if they could net three first round picks as has been mentioned as the haul they would get for Wentz. And who's to say that Wentz will ever be 100% healthy and return to 2017 form.

I get that Foles staying and Wentz getting traded isn't going to happen, but it's an interesting debate whether Foles + three first round picks would be better for the team than just having Wentz.

The bolded is the only reasonable argument for going with Foles over Wentz.

I'd take Wentz myself, but this is a line of reasoning that at least makes sense. Those trying to argue that Foles is the better QB ......don't

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On 1/18/2019 at 4:13 PM, Bigboy10182000 said:

It's 2019 dude.

And yet that same HC used to mockingly talk about Foles and then traded him for Sam Bradford.....

You know as well as I do why they won during that time. Ironically after we cut that Shady guy and Jackson and many others we suddenly started to lose lol

You already know I wasn't a fan of Chip the GM from the get go. We could've had a dynasty by now if he did absolutely nothing. 

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Foles beat Brady and Mahomes couldn’t so Foles will get the 200 million dollar contract and not Mahomes 

#sharkpoollogic 

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On 1/19/2019 at 3:07 PM, renesauz said:

The bolded is the only reasonable argument for going with Foles over Wentz.

I'd take Wentz myself, but this is a line of reasoning that at least makes sense. Those trying to argue that Foles is the better QB ......don't

I don’t think anyone here has argued Foles > Wentz, nobody, not even me. The argument is simple and sound; they can clearly win with him, save some money to invest elsewhere, acquire a big ransom for Wentz, and have a very solid team built with Foles instead of Wentz. Also, you have to have at least a few questions about his longevity and health. He’s prob fine, but it is something someone might wonder about in the back of their head.

21 hours ago, ShaHBucks said:

This was addressed and surprised nobody. If they didn’t give him that money, it’s terrible PR and a bad look as whole for the organization. They obviously didn’t have to give him the money, but it would’ve been a bad look if they didn’t.

10 hours ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

Foles beat Brady and Mahomes couldn’t so Foles will get the 200 million dollar contract and not Mahomes 

#sharkpoollogic 

The fact that you consider him just another guy is either trolling or you’re being intentionally obtuse. Maybe in the wrong situation he is a JAG, but on the Eagles he is a leader with ice in his veins. Amazing that those who should see it the most (Eagles fans), don’t see it at all.

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1 minute ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Amazing that those who should see it the most (Eagles fans), don’t see it at all.

Or...we’re closer, more involved and educated on the subject than an outsider? 

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4 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

Or...we’re closer, more involved and educated on the subject than an outsider? 

Or intentionally obtuse due to the emotions involved. Everyone decided during the impressive run last year Wentz was having that he is the next 15 years of this franchise, so they’ll downplay the magic BDN brings to Philly to sell it to themselves.

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9 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Or intentionally obtuse due to the emotions involved. Everyone decided during the impressive run last year Wentz was having that he is the next 15 years of this franchise, so they’ll downplay the magic BDN brings to Philly to sell it to themselves.

A lot of assumptions by you to make a point. It’s a bad look. 

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10 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Or intentionally obtuse due to the emotions involved. Everyone decided during the impressive run last year Wentz was having that he is the next 15 years of this franchise, so they’ll downplay the magic BDN brings to Philly to sell it to themselves.

The fact that you're so obsessed with how B N's D is could explain why you're so enamored by him.   And no one is downplaying what Foles did for us last year.  But at the same time, we're not pretending his 60% complete with 3 TDs and 4 INT in this year's playoffs makes him Joe Montana Jr.  Foles is what he is. An above average quarterback who handles pressure very well but has periods of inconsistency.  He will be the same in Jacksonville.

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1 hour ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

A lot of assumptions by you to make a point. It’s a bad look. 

The most bashing of the guy has come out of Philly fans, which always includes a “yea but, we love him.” Idk why that is, so I have to draw a logical conclusion. 

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7 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

The most bashing of the guy has come out of Philly fans, which always includes a “yea but, we love him.” Idk why that is, so I have to draw a logical conclusion. 

You mean a childish conclusion, but go on....

It's been explained to you, many times.  At this point there's nothing left to discuss until he signs a new deal and you can update all our W/L records accordingly.

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31 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

You mean a childish conclusion, but go on....

It's been explained to you, many times.  At this point there's nothing left to discuss until he signs a new deal and you can update all our W/L records accordingly.

FYI - Disagreeing with an opinion doesn’t make that opinion childish. 

Your baseline in this discussion was he wouldn’t see $40mm guaranteed, even if he led them to another title.

I came up with a reason someone would make a statement so disconnected from reality. 

You weren’t alone in those comments, although the majority of the people who agree with them are Eagles fans, why is that? I said he’d see $40mm guaranteed months ago regardless of anything, I was basically laughed out of the Eagles thread. 

Hopefully we’ll have a better read on how NFL GMs value him within the next 2 months.

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17 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

FYI - Disagreeing with an opinion doesn’t make that opinion

Yeah except you weren’t disagreeing with an opinion. 

You said:

1 hour ago, fantasycurse42 said:

The most bashing of the guy has come out of Philly fans, which always includes a “yea but, we love him.” Idk why that is, so I have to draw a logical conclusion. 

When you said you don’t know why that is, you’re intentionally being obtuse. It’s been explained to you. Numerous times. There’s no “logical conclusion”...it’s childish, period. 

We’ll see in a couple months and you can update our W/L records. You’re dying to be right and it’s evident this means a lot to you. I’ll stop back once he signs. Until then, take care 👍 

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2 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

Yeah except you weren’t disagreeing with an opinion. 

You said:

When you said you don’t know why that is, you’re intentionally being obtuse. It’s been explained to you. Numerous times. There’s no “logical conclusion”...it’s childish, period. 

We’ll see in a couple months and you can update our W/L records. You’re dying to be right and it’s evident this means a lot to you. I’ll stop back once he signs. Until then, take care 👍 

Wat?

You said my conclusion was childish. By saying that, you disagreed with my conclusion (opinion) and called it childish. 

There are no conclusions nor facts here as of yet, just opinions and speculation.

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The only thing I'm sure of here is foles will get more than Mike Glennon got. I'd speculate that the guarantee will be roughly double, average per year being around $5 million more. 

Glennon's three-year, $45 million deal is basically a one-year, $16 million with team options for 2018 and '19."

$60 million over 3 years, half of that guaranteed seems about right imo.

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2 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Wat?

You said my conclusion was childish. By saying that, you disagreed with my conclusion (opinion) and called it childish. 

There are no conclusions nor facts here as of yet, just opinions and speculation.

Last time I’m trying this...

1 hour ago, fantasycurse42 said:

The most bashing of the guy has come out of Philly fans, which always includes a “yea but, we love him.” Idk why that is, so I have to draw a logical conclusion. 

This. Has. Been. Explained. To. You. Multiple. Times. 

So when it’s been explained to you a few times and than you say “IDK why that is”.... How do you think that makes you look? Pick a side of the sword. I don’t care which one lol

See you in a few weeks 👍 

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1 minute ago, -OZ- said:

The only thing I'm sure of here is foles will get more than Mike Glennon got. I'd speculate that the guarantee will be roughly double, average per year being around $5 million more. 

Glennon's three-year, $45 million deal is basically a one-year, $16 million with team options for 2018 and '19."

$60 million over 3 years, half of that guaranteed seems about right imo.

If Foles were 26/27 (which is what I believe Glennon was at the time) and viewed as a possible franchise QB I’d agree. 

I feel confident that any deal Foles gets the team will be able to escape after a year, 2 max. 

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1 minute ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

If Foles were 26/27 (which is what I believe Glennon was at the time) and viewed as a possible franchise QB I’d agree. 

I feel confident that any deal Foles gets the team will be able to escape after a year, 2 max. 

Totally missed that he turned 30 yesterday. But I still think a team will sign him for along the lines I stated, guaranteed $30m, 2 years. 

Jacksonville seems like a perfect fit for 2-4 years. 

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1 minute ago, -OZ- said:

Totally missed that he turned 30 yesterday. But I still think a team will sign him for along the lines I stated, guaranteed $30m, 2 years. 

Jacksonville seems like a perfect fit for 2-4 years. 

It’s all going to come down to market for him and what his suitors think his long term potential is with that team. My opinions are known. I don’t think the market will be strong for him and with Flacco and Bridgewater out there it hurts him even more. I also don’t think anyone thinks he’s a franchise QB 2 years after he was a FA. And if you thought he was a franchise QB after the SB you go get him. 

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10 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

Last time I’m trying this...

This. Has. Been. Explained. To. You. Multiple. Times. 

So when it’s been explained to you a few times and than you say “IDK why that is”.... How do you think that makes you look? Pick a side of the sword. I don’t care which one lol

See you in a few weeks 👍 

JFC, and I have a reason for that and you called it childish. Furthermore, in case you’re unaware, what has been explained is also opinion.

We’re speaking a different language, we’ll come back to this when it starts shaking out.

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1 hour ago, fantasycurse42 said:

The most bashing of the guy has come out of Philly fans, which always includes a “yea but, we love him.” Idk why that is, so I have to draw a logical conclusion. 

It's not really bashing.  I think we have to put the "but we love him" part in there just to clarify that we aren't at ALL "Anti-Foles" as you like to paint.  Everyone thinks Foles is a good QB, played the best football of his career during the playoffs, and hopes he gets a huge deal.  We have also seen bad Nick Foles too though... something you seem to totally ignore.  Truth likely lies in the middle, like all things.  He's likely not going to be a very highly paid franchise QB... and I don't think the league sees him as this either.  He was a great fit in our system and played out of his mind, which has earned him a decent contract in a year where the FA market is weak.  I agree with the 2 yr 40 mill type contract he'll get somewhere.

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10 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

Totally missed that he turned 30 yesterday. But I still think a team will sign him for along the lines I stated, guaranteed $30m, 2 years. 

Jacksonville seems like a perfect fit for 2-4 years. 

You’re aware that he’s most likely paying $2mm to get out of a 1 year $20mm deal? 

So he’ll be negative $22mm over the next 12 months, but he’ll sign for 2/30 guaranteed - does that make any business sense to you? 

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7 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

You’re aware that he’s most likely paying $2mm to get out of a 1 year $20mm deal? 

So he’ll be negative $22mm over the next 12 months, but he’ll sign for 2/30 guaranteed - does that make any business sense to you? 

And if he chooses to stay we’d probably not cut him....

The second his deal became public no one (maybe only you) thought he’d see that money. 

Hes not counting money he knew he’d never see. If you need examples look at every cap casualty and see what they signed for after being cut. 

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4 minutes ago, Deamon said:

It's not really bashing.  I think we have to put the "but we love him" part in there just to clarify that we aren't at ALL "Anti-Foles" as you like to paint.  Everyone thinks Foles is a good QB, played the best football of his career during the playoffs, and hopes he gets a huge deal.  We have also seen bad Nick Foles too though... something you seem to totally ignore.  Truth likely lies in the middle, like all things.  He's likely not going to be a very highly paid franchise QB... and I don't think the league sees him as this either.  He was a great fit in our system and played out of his

This post is such a perfect example of the back handed compliments and love Philly fans have been passing on to this guy. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

And if he chooses to stay we’d probably not cut him....

The second his deal became public no one (maybe only you) thought he’d see that money. 

Hes not counting money he knew he’d never see. If you need examples look at every cap casualty and see what they signed for after being cut. 

You mean they’d prob cut him? Otherwise, that would be a $22mm one year net for him. 

Phillys dream scenario is Nick not opting out. If they don’t pick up his option, it’s because they already know he will opt out. If he doesn’t opt out, they can trade him and get something in return, as there will be a healthy amount of interest taking him for 1/20.

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Just now, fantasycurse42 said:

This post is such a perfect example of the back handed compliments and love Philly fans have been passing on to this guy. 

 

Again, your obsession with arguments is very odd.  Not everything is an argument or needs to turn into some chest puffing battle where you can come back and say "I told you so".  It's not back handed at all.  Are you suggesting we don't love Nick and what he did for our team?  Because it seems like that's what you're inferring.  I have absolutely nothing against the guy, no ill will at all.  He seems like an awesome dude who is a good leader, good football player, says the right things to the media, and seems genuinely like one of the best people in the league.  It's okay to love the guy but simply not think he's a top 10 nfl qb.  There's nothing wrong with being a 20 mil/year guy, a super bowl MVP, and a hero in Philly.  99.9% of the population would love this guy's life. 

You seem to be trying to put a negative spin on everything just because some fans don't think he's the most talented player in the league, or that the market probably won't pay the guy like a top 10 qb.  You look like you're desperately hunting for that argument.  We all love the guy.  It'll be okay.

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23 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

You’re aware that he’s most likely paying $2mm to get out of a 1 year $20mm deal? 

So he’ll be negative $22mm over the next 12 months, but he’ll sign for 2/30 guaranteed - does that make any business sense to you? 

From the eagles perspective, they're currently over the cap by about $20 million if they exercise the option. While they certainly can make it work even exercising it, does it really make business sense for the team to use $20 million on the backup QB? Maybe with foles it does but they can use that money elsewhere. 

If he's traded he'll renegotiate with the new team. 

Not sure it means anything but the eagles just gifted foles $1 million. They seem to genuinely like and will take care of the guy. So maybe they do pay him that much as insurance. It just seems like an expensive policy. 

Edited by -OZ-
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7 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

This post is such a perfect example of the back handed compliments and love Philly fans have been passing on to this guy. 

I have no stake in the game when it comes to the Eagles or either of these QBs but I would characterize his post as a pretty solid/accurate representation of the situation.

He started 7 games this year and had 11 TDs with 10 turnovers and a sub-7.0 ypa in the same system that the team's other QB put up 21 TDs and 7 turnovers with a 7.7ypa while playing at less than 100%.

He's a solid QB that in a limited sample size has tended to play well in big moments, not all that unlike Joe Flacco.

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26 minutes ago, Deamon said:

It's not really bashing.  I think we have to put the "but we love him" part in there just to clarify that we aren't at ALL "Anti-Foles" as you like to paint.  Everyone thinks Foles is a good QB, played the best football of his career during the playoffs, and hopes he gets a huge deal.  We have also seen bad Nick Foles too though... something you seem to totally ignore.  Truth likely lies in the middle, like all things.  He's likely not going to be a very highly paid franchise QB... and I don't think the league sees him as this either.  He was a great fit in our system and played out of his mind, which has earned him a decent contract in a year where the FA market is weak.  I agree with the 2 yr 40 mill type contract he'll get somewhere.

 

13 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

This post is such a perfect example of the back handed compliments and love Philly fans have been passing on to this guy. 

 

How in the hell do you come to that conclusion from what he posted?!?  You're legit block-worthy at this point

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14 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

This post is such a perfect example of the back handed compliments and love Philly fans have been passing on to this guy. 

 

Lol  It's a great description of what Foles means to Eagles fans but with a dose of reality in it. The fact that you think he's a Hall of Famer and think that anyone who disagrees with you is 'bashing Foles' is on you.

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22 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Your hours late on this.  About a dozen Eagles (Cox, Ertz, Brooks, Sudfeld, Johnson among them) have come out to say that this is total nonsense.  Even some ex-Eagles like Torrey Smith laughed at the notion that Wentz isn't a great leader and teammate.  This was some no-name writer that no one ever heard of trying to make a name for himself.

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He’s great in our system. Pretty sure he can be great in any system that lets him air it out.

Bad Foles. Bc every QB (excluding maybe TB, Brees, Rodgers) doesn’t have down times? Even Big Ben has looked bad at multiple points in his career, and he’s a HOF QB. And by no means am I saying Nick is a HOF QB, just putting “Bad Foles” into perspective. 

Furthermore, if you multiplied his starts in Philly by 7-8 years, it’s a first ballot HOF career. So this bad Foles they speak of, I’m sorry he doesn’t throw for 400 4/0 a game, but he’s been superb as their starter. 

And then I see the Wentz comparison above (21/7), what were their records this year? You give me stats, what about w/l - Foles beat the NFC Champs on their home turf to help propel them to the playoffs. 

Sure, Wentz appears to have more potential, don’t think anyone refutes that, but the Eagles thrive on Foles.

I hope he finds himself in a similar situation where a team can rally around him. 

 

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4 hours ago, fantasycurse42 said:

I don’t think anyone here has argued Foles > Wentz, nobody, not even me. The argument is simple and sound

 

4 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Furthermore, if you multiplied his starts in Philly by 7-8 years, it’s a first ballot HOF career. So this bad Foles they speak of, I’m sorry he doesn’t throw for 400 4/0 a game, but he’s been superb as their starter. 

And then I see the Wentz comparison above (21/7), what were their records this year? You give me stats, what about w/l - Foles beat the NFC Champs on their home turf to help propel them to the playoffs. 

Sure, Wentz appears to have more potential, don’t think anyone refutes that, but the Eagles thrive on Foles.

I hope he finds himself in a similar situation where a team can rally around him. 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

 

 

I’m convinced you’re illiterate.

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