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fantasycurse42

Nick Foles Landing Spot/Contract Size (Jags, reportedly 4/88 50 guaranteed)

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25 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

There isnt.....nyg....jax....miami....denver.....washington....

Would Washington be able to sign Foles with three years left on Smith's 4 year/94 million dollar, 71mill guaranteed contract?   Foles is going to get 4 years/80 million I would think.  Can the Skins really have 44 million/year tied up at the QB position?

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37 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

The pressure is already going to start building. Next year when Foles is gone, if Wentz gets into a slump, fans will be second guessing. It is an unfair situation to be in, but there really isn't any way of getting around it. 

Right. So if Foles wins another Superbowl, Wentz almost has to go. Then you get a couple firsts and move on with Foles.

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1 minute ago, JuniorNB said:

Would Washington be able to sign Foles with three years left on Smith's 4 year/94 million dollar, 71mill guaranteed contract?   Foles is going to get 4 years/80 million I would think.  Can the Skins really have 44 million/year tied up at the QB position?

Plus, does Foles want to go to Washington to work under Gruden/Allen/Snyder? I can't see anyone who has any other options choosing to go to Washington.

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3 minutes ago, Slider said:

Right. So if Foles wins another Superbowl, Wentz almost has to go. Then you get a couple firsts and move on with Foles.

I agree.  If Foles wins another Super Bowl, you have to trade Wentz as a favor to him.

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19 minutes ago, Slider said:

Right. So if Foles wins another Superbowl, Wentz almost has to go. Then you get a couple firsts and move on with Foles.

Yes, 100%. I think they lose this week and this becomes null. If they go into NO and somehow win this week, I think this has to start becoming a real discussion. 

Foles has proven over and over again they can win with him. Imagine they pick up a huge haul on Wentz, with a team you can already win with, has to be some initial discussions going on in the front office already. 

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26 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Would Washington be able to sign Foles with three years left on Smith's 4 year/94 million dollar, 71mill guaranteed contract?   Foles is going to get 4 years/80 million I would think.  Can the Skins really have 44 million/year tied up at the QB position?

They have a need for a starter...but yeah I doubt they can afford him

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4 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Yes, 100%. I think they lose this week and this becomes null. If they go into NO and somehow win this week, I think this has to start becoming a real discussion. 

Foles has proven over and over again they can win with him. Imagine they pick up a huge haul on Wentz, with a team you can already win with, has to be some initial discussions going on in the front office already. 

Exactly where I'm at.

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23 minutes ago, babydemon90 said:

If there are 8 teams looking he'll get paid.  I don't think there's that many.

Tampa, NYG, Jacksonville, Denver, Washington, possibly Titans.  Just off the top of my head.  Plus anyone that might think he's an upgrade to what they have.

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9 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Tampa, NYG, Jacksonville, Denver, Washington, possibly Titans.  Just off the top of my head.  Plus anyone that might think he's an upgrade to what they have.

I think only the first four.  Washington is out because of three years left on Alex Smith's contract. And the Titans still believe in Mariotta. They're not bailing from him yet.

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What about the Raiders to trade Wentz to? They have the draft capital and I am sure they would love to move to go to Las Vegas with Carson Wentz rather than Derek Carr.

Here's the thing with trading Wentz vs. letting Foles go. One of the main arguments for keeping Wentz is that Wentz is 5 years younger. However, with Carson's recent injury history, we don't know if he will be playing for those 5 extra years. And if he keeps getting hurt, then his very high ceiling starts coming down. 

 

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3 hours ago, Slider said:

The team isn't playing better because they're healed up or anything. They clearly believe more in Foles and seem to like him more.

Couldn't you say the team is playing better because it's the playoffs and this team just seems to come together and play great in the playoffs?  I bet this team would rally around Carson in the playoffs too.   I don't think Doug is getting enough credit here.  Foles also deserves a ton, but it seems weird to think the team believes in Foles more.

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2 hours ago, tonydead said:

Tampa, NYG, Jacksonville, Denver, Washington, possibly Titans.  Just off the top of my head.  Plus anyone that might think he's an upgrade to what they have.

I'd add Cinncy and Las Vegas to the "possibly" list.

 

ETA: and Miami should definitely be on that list.

Edited by Dr. Octopus

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1 hour ago, JuniorNB said:

I think only the first four.  Washington is out because of three years left on Alex Smith's contract. And the Titans still believe in Mariotta. They're not bailing from him yet.

Tampa has already said they're staying with Winston.  Maybe Ariens thinks differently, but I think Winston is still their starter next year.

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Just now, Deamon said:

Couldn't you say the team is playing better because it's the playoffs and this team just seems to come together and play great in the playoffs?  I bet this team would rally around Carson in the playoffs too.   I don't think Doug is getting enough credit here.  Foles also deserves a ton, but it seems weird to think the team believes in Foles more.

Nah I watched two years of this. What the team did to make the playoffs was nothing short of incredible. Like they flipped a switch when Foles came in. I've also heard Hollis Thomas say he saw the team quit when Wentz threw that int in New Orleans.

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1 hour ago, hispeedthinmint said:

I don't see them moving away from Dalton...yet. Maybe they draft a QB in the later rounds at best.

Brand new HC so it's possible, although the guy would need to spend much of his interview telling Mike Brown how he could turn Dalton back around...

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4 minutes ago, Slider said:

Nah I watched two years of this. What the team did to make the playoffs was nothing short of incredible. Like they flipped a switch when Foles came in. I've also heard Hollis Thomas say he saw the team quit when Wentz threw that int in New Orleans.

Agree it was incredible.  But do we make the playoffs with Foles starting all year?  Or is he a different QB when he sits back all year and comes in during a high pressure situation?

IF we had game 1 and game 2 (of this years reg season) Foles starting all season, we wouldn't even be in the playoffs. (maybe we would, who knows)

To truly compare, we have to see Carson look bad and the team look bad around him in the playoffs, given the same circumstances.

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8 minutes ago, Slider said:

Wentz to Vegas would be a blockbuster talked about for 70 years.

i like this move, but eagles will lose and move ahead with carson.

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IF we could get a king's ransom for Wentz from the Raiders, I probably make that deal.  On the premise Wentz > Foles, but Foles + multiple 1st rounder > Wentz. 

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6 hours ago, Deamon said:

Couldn't you say the team is playing better because it's the playoffs and this team just seems to come together and play great in the playoffs?  I bet this team would rally around Carson in the playoffs too.   I don't think Doug is getting enough credit here.  Foles also deserves a ton, but it seems weird to think the team believes in Foles more.

But they were playing better for Foles before it was the playoffs. Rams, Texans, Skins. The team was flat out better with him for some reason. I think he makes everyone relaxed and loose and Doug just calls a better game with him because he can’t do what Wentz can as far as extending plays. Less is more with Foles and it works!

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4 hours ago, babydemon90 said:

IF we could get a king's ransom for Wentz from the Raiders, I probably make that deal.  On the premise Wentz > Foles, but Foles + multiple 1st rounder > Wentz. 

Yep.

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9 hours ago, Slider said:

Right. So if Foles wins another Superbowl, Wentz almost has to go. Then you get a couple firsts and move on with Foles.

Foles isn't winning this week and Wentz isn't leaving Philly.   

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10 hours ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

There isnt.....nyg....jax....miami....denver.....washington....

Foles signing in Denver to start ahead of keenum would be awesome. But it seems unlikely. 

9 hours ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Yes, 100%. I think they lose this week and this becomes null. If they go into NO and somehow win this week, I think this has to start becoming a real discussion. 

Foles has proven over and over again they can win with him. Imagine they pick up a huge haul on Wentz, with a team you can already win with, has to be some initial discussions going on in the front office already. 

Would love to see Wentz with the Giants. They'd have to trade Beckham to make it happen I'd think. 

6 hours ago, grateful zed said:

i like this move, but eagles will lose and move ahead with carson.

Probably.

And I'm not convinced the raiders give up on carr yet.

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21 minutes ago, DocHolliday said:

Foles isn't winning this week and Wentz isn't leaving Philly.   

Probably both true, but there's chance Philly beats the Saints.

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29 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

 

Would love to see Wentz with the Giants. They'd have to trade Beckham to make it happen I'd think. 

 

Barkley & a 1st & 2nd. They don’t need Beckham. While they don’t have any bonafide all pros WRs, they have a very solid group in place. Plus Goedert is starting to look like the real deal, they could have two stud TEs. Barkley is the final piece plus the picks, no need for a diva WR.

That offense would be scary good. 

I think Foles magic ends this week, but if they somehow go into NO and win, this becomes a real conversation. 

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I can’t imagine they dont go after Eli Apple early and often in this one, he’s the weak link, Jeffrey can go up and get it, and Foles throws one of the best deep balls in the NFL. Need to quiet the crowd early. 

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38 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Barkley & a 1st & 2nd. They don’t need Beckham. While they don’t have any bonafide all pros WRs, they have a very solid group in place. Plus Goedert is starting to look like the real deal, they could have two stud TEs. Barkley is the final piece plus the picks, no need for a diva WR.

That offense would be scary good. 

I think Foles magic ends this week, but if they somehow go into NO and win, this becomes a real conversation. 

I get that the stud QB is the key but do you really think they'd trade Barkley? 

Philly would want him. Could be interesting.

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4 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

I get that the stud QB is the key but do you really think they'd trade Barkley? 

Philly would want him. Could be interesting.

They’ve had the same QB for 15 years. I’d think if they believed Wentz could handle the next 15, they’d pay a heavy price. I don’t think Philly would ship Wentz to a division rival for Barkley without the picks though, they’d have to pony up.

Edited by fantasycurse42

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12 hours ago, Slider said:

The team isn't playing better because they're healed up or anything. They clearly believe more in Foles and seem to like him more. Foles will make $24 million next year for someone. If he wins another Superbowl the Eagles have to trade Wentz. The pressure the next ten years on Wentz would be immense.

100% agreed on the $24M. Minimum of Alex Smith money. The $20M talk is too low. Just a hair above Keenum? Come on now. My guess is 3/$75M with $40M-$50M guaranteed.

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8 hours ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Barkley & a 1st & 2nd. They don’t need Beckham. While they don’t have any bonafide all pros WRs, they have a very solid group in place. Plus Goedert is starting to look like the real deal, they could have two stud TEs. Barkley is the final piece plus the picks, no need for a diva WR.

That offense would be scary good. 

I think Foles magic ends this week, but if they somehow go into NO and win, this becomes a real conversation. 

While it certainly fun to think of our current offense + Barkley, the thought of Wentz being an opponent in our division for the next 15 years is the kind of scary. They would definitely need a few first round picks along with Barkley.

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8 hours ago, Daywalker said:

What would Foles fetch in a trade?  

Here’s the problem. If Foles opts out, he could be available for free. Things get more complicated if PHI franchises him.  Either way, he wouldn’t be under contract so trading him could be a logistical problem. 

It is said that last off season the Eagles were offered a second round pick. It was also rumored the Eagles wanted two first round picks or a first and another high pick. Not sure if that changes a year later. 

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11 hours ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Barkley & a 1st & 2nd. They don’t need Beckham. While they don’t have any bonafide all pros WRs, they have a very solid group in place. Plus Goedert is starting to look like the real deal, they could have two stud TEs. Barkley is the final piece plus the picks, no need for a diva WR.

That offense would be scary good. 

I think Foles magic ends this week, but if they somehow go into NO and win, this becomes a real conversation. 

The Eagles aren't trading Wentz but if they were it is certainly not going to be within the NFC East - and if the Giants wanted to trade Barkley plus more picks for a QB they would have just drafted one instead of taking Barkley - I think they'll move up and get Haskins or maybe even stand-pat and take Daniel Jones and groom him behind Eli.

Edited by Dr. Octopus

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15 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

The Eagles aren't trading Wentz but if they were it is certainly not going to be within the NFC East - and if the Giants wanted to trade Barkley plus more picks for a QB they would have just drafted one instead of taking Barkley - I think they'll move up and get Haskins or maybe even stand-pat and take Daniel Jones and groom him behind Eli.

That's option B imo.

Option 😄 pull a Browns, tank another year and get Tua. 

Option A is sign foles for ~$22 million  / year.

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51 minutes ago, Kwai Chang Caine said:

Sheffter thinks  Wentz could  fetch THREE first rounders. Damn.. I’d jump,on that if I’m Howie.

Throw in Barkley, and you have a deal.

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1 hour ago, Kwai Chang Caine said:

Sheffter thinks  Wentz could  fetch THREE first rounders. Damn.. I’d jump,on that if I’m Howie.

Generally speaking, there is usually way more hype than accuracy in some of these opinions. Last off season, there was talk of Foles being worth two first round picks. If what has come out is true, the best offer they got was a second round pick. There was talk last year that Jimmy G would net two first round picks . . . he got traded for a second rounder. I'll believe Wentz can fetch three first rounders when I see it.

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45 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Generally speaking, there is usually way more hype than accuracy in some of these opinions. Last off season, there was talk of Foles being worth two first round picks. If what has come out is true, the best offer they got was a second round pick. There was talk last year that Jimmy G would net two first round picks . . . he got traded for a second rounder. I'll believe Wentz can fetch three first rounders when I see it.

Jimmy G off basically 4 meaningful games and as a pending FA is not exactly the same as Wentz being a one time MVP front runner with another year on his deal plus an option. 

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57 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Generally speaking, there is usually way more hype than accuracy in some of these opinions. Last off season, there was talk of Foles being worth two first round picks. If what has come out is true, the best offer they got was a second round pick. There was talk last year that Jimmy G would net two first round picks . . . he got traded for a second rounder. I'll believe Wentz can fetch three first rounders when I see it.

Absolutely he could. It's Philly that wouldn't do it. There are three. maybe four, young stud QBs in the league right now. Getting one of those is every team's goal.  Right now, Mahomes, Wentz, and Goff are the best young QB prospects in the league. Mayfield looks good too, but I need to see a second year now that teams will have film. But he could well be the fourth.  That is a commodity that you don't give up.  Because it might be 25 more years till you get lucky enough to get one again.

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6 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Absolutely he could. It's Philly that wouldn't do it. There are three. maybe four, young stud QBs in the league right now. Getting one of those is every team's goal.  Right now, Mahomes, Wentz, and Goff are the best young QB prospects in the league. Mayfield looks good too, but I need to see a second year now that teams will have film. But he could well be the fourth.  That is a commodity that you don't give up.  Because it might be 25 more years till you get lucky enough to get one again.

You are not factoring in Wentz's health issues. If Wentz was perfectly healthy then yes, he could possibly get 3 1st rounders from somebody. But no GM wants to trade away 3 first rounders for the guy that gets hurt every season.

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6 minutes ago, dhockster said:

You are not factoring in Wentz's health issues. If Wentz was perfectly healthy then yes, he could possibly get 3 1st rounders from somebody. But no GM wants to trade away 3 first rounders for the guy that gets hurt every season.

Luck has had a major injury that took a year longer than expected to heal.  Wentz tore his ACL and PCL because of a direct hit he took diving into the end zone.  Not some awkward step that he took that might indicate a weakness in his natural knee structure.   He broke his wrist in college.    None of his injuries are the same.  Or something you'd consider chronic.  Like a guy who always seems to have torn hamstrings.   Teams trade multiple first rounders for college QBs  coming out of the draft who they hope might be a great pro QB.  With a guy like Wentz, they're taking away the 'hope' part and know they're getting an MVP-type QB.    If Philly reported that he was on the market, Howie would be flooded with offers. Star players plus multiple first rounders.

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7 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

The Eagles aren't trading Wentz but if they were it is certainly not going to be within the NFC East - and if the Giants wanted to trade Barkley plus more picks for a QB they would have just drafted one instead of taking Barkley - I think they'll move up and get Haskins or maybe even stand-pat and take Daniel Jones and groom him behind Eli.

The Giants are not trading Barkley.  He is a total stud RB and is considered one of the best RBs already.  I agree with your thinking that the Giants are drafting a QB early though and will let him learn behind Eli until he is ready.  That could be game 1 in 2019 or game 1 in 2020. 

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6 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Luck has had a major injury that took a year longer than expected to heal.  Wentz tore his ACL and PCL because of a direct hit he took diving into the end zone.  Not some awkward step that he took that might indicate a weakness in his natural knee structure.   He broke his wrist in college.    None of his injuries are the same.  Or something you'd consider chronic.  Like a guy who always seems to have torn hamstrings.   Teams trade multiple first rounders for college QBs  coming out of the draft who they hope might be a great pro QB.  With a guy like Wentz, they're taking away the 'hope' part and know they're getting an MVP-type QB.    If Philly reported that he was on the market, Howie would be flooded with offers. Star players plus multiple first rounders.

I disagree, but we will probably never know because the Eagles will probably lose this week and Foles will be gone and the Eagles will sign Wentz to a long term deal.

Even though Wentz doesn't have a chronic injury, the fact that he has many, different injuries is very concerning. Some players are just injury prone. Since the Eagles already have him, they need to stick with him and hope for the best, but his health is definitely a concern for me going forward.

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4 minutes ago, dhockster said:

I disagree, but we will probably never know because the Eagles will probably lose this week and Foles will be gone and the Eagles will sign Wentz to a long term deal.

Even though Wentz doesn't have a chronic injury, the fact that he has many, different injuries is very concerning. Some players are just injury prone. Since the Eagles already have him, they need to stick with him and hope for the best, but his health is definitely a concern for me going forward.

He got hurt diving into the endzone. So if you want to say that a QB who runs has a better chance at getting hurt than a Rivers/Ely type, then I'll agree with that.  Wentz plays similar to Aaron Rodgers in that he's a great passer who also can run when he has to. Rodgers has quite a few injuries on his resume too. It comes with the playing style. Ben Rothleisberger was the same way and his game morphed into more of a pocket passer as he got older. I'm sure Wentz will cut down on the running too.

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4 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

He got hurt diving into the endzone. So if you want to say that a QB who runs has a better chance at getting hurt than a Rivers/Ely type, then I'll agree with that.  Wentz plays similar to Aaron Rodgers in that he's a great passer who also can run when he has to. Rodgers has quite a few injuries on his resume too. It comes with the playing style. Ben Rothleisberger was the same way and his game morphed into more of a pocket passer as he got older. I'm sure Wentz will cut down on the running too.

Nothing you just said changes how I feel about Wentz's health. I won't be comfortable that he can stay healthy until he actually stays healthy. And none of what I am saying is meant to be a criticisim of Wentz. It's just how I feel about the facts surrounding his situation.

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