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fantasycurse42

Nick Foles Landing Spot/Contract Size

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4 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

I’m convinced you’re illiterate.

Believe me, I won't be feeding you any time soon, troll. You had me going for a bit, well done.

Edited by Bigboy10182000

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17 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

He’s great in our system. Pretty sure he can be great in any system that lets him air it out.

Bad Foles. Bc every QB (excluding maybe TB, Brees, Rodgers) doesn’t have down times? Even Big Ben has looked bad at multiple points in his career, and he’s a HOF QB. And by no means am I saying Nick is a HOF QB, just putting “Bad Foles” into perspective. 

Furthermore, if you multiplied his starts in Philly by 7-8 years, it’s a first ballot HOF career. So this bad Foles they speak of, I’m sorry he doesn’t throw for 400 4/0 a game, but he’s been superb as their starter. 

And then I see the Wentz comparison above (21/7), what were their records this year? You give me stats, what about w/l - Foles beat the NFC Champs on their home turf to help propel them to the playoffs. 

Sure, Wentz appears to have more potential, don’t think anyone refutes that, but the Eagles thrive on Foles.

I hope he finds himself in a similar situation where a team can rally around him. 

 

1. Yes in OUR system.  What system outside of this one have you seen him thrive in?  You're "pretty sure he's great in any system that lets him air it out" but you've never seen that. 

2.  Yes some have down times.  But he's also played awful at times this year, and last year.  If you want to use the good games to his advantage, use the bad ones to his disadvantage.  Truth is in between.

3.  The W/L thing is the thing that really bothers me about this "Foles vs Wentz" debate (one that you said you've NEVER debated... but clearly are).  I hate when people only look at the result and use that as a point of argument.  Had Peyton gotten stuffed on the fake punt vs us and lost the game, you're one of those people who would be saying how awful of a decision that was.  Yet praise it when it works.  So yes, if our D made a ROUTINE stop on 4th and VERY long vs Tennessee, we win that game.  If they make a very routine stop on 4th and 15 vs Carolina, we win.  If Atlanta makes a very routine catch in the playoffs last year, this thread DOESN'T EXIST.  Legit this conversation wouldn't even be happening if Julio catches that ball.  So stop putting those close wins and losses on the QB. 

Football is a weird sport.  A few bounces one way or another and Carson already clinches a playoff spot before he gets hurt this year, and Foles is likely signing here as a backup qb again.

4.  The Eagles thrive in the playoffs.  Foles had a ton to do with that last year (and leading up to playoffs this year), but we'll never know what Carson would have done.

All in all I wouldn't have it any other way.  Stars aligned for us and Foles last playoff run, and if I could go back in time knowing how Foles played in the playoffs, I'd pick Foles over Carson as my QB last year going into the playoffs.  He's got magic in him. 

We're just going in circles here.  There's no debate or argument, just 2 points of view.  We think Foles is a good qb who was amazing for us in a short period of time due to many factors.  You think he's a top 10 franchise QB who will demand a massive contract.  We're all on the same team, and we all hope you're right. 

Are you done trying to instigate a non-existant fight now?

 

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26 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

He’s great in our system. Pretty sure he can be great in any system that lets him air it out.

Bad Foles. Bc every QB (excluding maybe TB, Brees, Rodgers) doesn’t have down times? Even Big Ben has looked bad at multiple points in his career, and he’s a HOF QB. And by no means am I saying Nick is a HOF QB, just putting “Bad Foles” into perspective. 

Furthermore, if you multiplied his starts in Philly by 7-8 years, it’s a first ballot HOF career. So this bad Foles they speak of, I’m sorry he doesn’t throw for 400 4/0 a game, but he’s been superb as their starter. 

And then I see the Wentz comparison above (21/7), what were their records this year? You give me stats, what about w/l - Foles beat the NFC Champs on their home turf to help propel them to the playoffs. 

Sure, Wentz appears to have more potential, don’t think anyone refutes that, but the Eagles thrive on Foles.

I hope he finds himself in a similar situation where a team can rally around him. 

 

LOL  You're trying too hard.  It took the Eagles all of about 8 hours after the season ended to declare who their quarterback is.  They see the two every single day in practice. They know exactly what both are capable of.

So, you think if Brees, Brady, of Rodgers had signed with the Rams in 2015, they'd have been benched for Case Keenum after 10 games, too? And blamed it on Jeff Fisher?   How about 2016?  Think they'd have sat the bench behind Alex Smith all year? How about Big Ben? Lol  Please. How about any Hall of Fame quarterback?   You think his 60% with 3 TDs and 4 INTs was a good post season?  He had 3 good drives out of 21 in the playoffs.  Why don't you mention that?  

These are things that Eagles fans realize.  And see clearly. If that makes you think we're over critical of him, then that's on you.  I've said about a dozen times that I think he's getting a 20 million per year contract somewhere.  If people weren't making ridiculous claims that the Eagles should keep a journeyman and trade a top three young QB prospect in the entire league (and one who already has an MVP caliber season on his resume), no one would ever say a negative thing about Foles.

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1 hour ago, fantasycurse42 said:

He’s great in our system. Pretty sure he can be great in any system that lets him air it out.

Bad Foles. Bc every QB (excluding maybe TB, Brees, Rodgers) doesn’t have down times? Even Big Ben has looked bad at multiple points in his career, and he’s a HOF QB. And by no means am I saying Nick is a HOF QB, just putting “Bad Foles” into perspective. 

Furthermore, if you multiplied his starts in Philly by 7-8 years, it’s a first ballot HOF career. So this bad Foles they speak of, I’m sorry he doesn’t throw for 400 4/0 a game, but he’s been superb as their starter. 

And then I see the Wentz comparison above (21/7), what were their records this year? You give me stats, what about w/l - Foles beat the NFC Champs on their home turf to help propel them to the playoffs. 

Sure, Wentz appears to have more potential, don’t think anyone refutes that, but the Eagles thrive on Foles.

I hope he finds himself in a similar situation where a team can rally around him. 

 

Comparing records this year is ridiculous. Eagles struggled mightily in the middle parts of this past season not because of QB play, but because of playing street FAs at CB. They were able to win late in the year not just because Foles played well, but because a couple of those street FAs actually came around to play better, and a couple of other DBs came back from injury. Using W-L record to pump Foles up is ..... ridiculously short sighted.

As we all tend to do, you're giving too much credit (or blame) to the QB for the teams Wins and losses. Foles at times looks terrific, but usually looks pretty average. Hes a great guy, a solid leader, definitely worthy of a lower end franchise deal.

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1 hour ago, JuniorNB said:

  If people weren't making ridiculous claims that the Eagles should keep a journeyman and trade a top three young QB prospect in the entire league (and one who already has an MVP caliber season on his resume), no one would ever say a negative thing about Foles.

This sums it up pretty well. :goodposting:

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35 minutes ago, ZenoRazon said:

What is this talk about Wentz is actually a problem? And the team prefers the low key ways of Foles, hmmm?

Do some research. See what his teammates had to say today.

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16 hours ago, Deamon said:

1. Yes in OUR system.  What system outside of this one have you seen him thrive in?

1. Andy Reid’s - albeit some of it was in the preseason (but I remember being super impressed with his poise and accuracy).

2. Chip Kelly’s

3. Doug Pederson’s

So ignoring college (where he was obviously very good) he’s thrives in 3 of the 4 NFL systems he’s played in.

Despite all three successes coming as a member of the Eagles (although he played well in relief on the Chiefs also) saying ”OUR” system  is disingenuous since it was under three different coaching staffs - it’s not like there’s some magical “Eagles’ system”.

ETA: and just so there’s no confusion I said earlier in this thread there was close to zero chance the Eagles would choose Foles over Wentz before it became official so this post has nothing to do with Foles v Wentz, I just find it odd how all the Eagles fans come out to try and disparage Foles accomplishments, it seems like they should be the ones celebrating the guy.

Edited by Dr. Octopus

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20 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

1. Andy Reid’s - albeit some of it was in the preseason (but I remember being super impressed with his poise and accuracy).

2. Chip Kelly’s

3. Doug Pederson’s

So ignoring college (where he was obviously very good) he’s thrives in 3 of the 4 NFL systems he’s played in.

Despite all three successes coming as a member of the Eagles (although he played well in relief on the Chiefs also) saying ”OUR” system  is disingenuous since it was under three different coaching staffs - it’s not like there’s some magical “Eagles’ system”.

ETA: and just so there’s no confusion I said earlier in this thread there was close to zero chance the Eagles would choose Foles over Wentz before it became official so this post has nothing to do with Foles v Wentz, I just find it odd how all the Eagles fans come out to try and disparage Foles accomplishments, it seems like they should be the ones celebrating the guy.

His success in Chip's offense was parallel to Chip's success in the league. Started like gangbusters and quickly became very average.  Both had one good year.

And Eagles fans don't disparage Foles' accomplishments. We are just real enough to also add the bad stuff to his resume. He's had plenty of both.

Edited by JuniorNB

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On 1/18/2019 at 6:44 PM, Cowboysfan8 said:

Maybe

We don't know what would have happened if that ball wasn't picked.

We know what happened vs Atl

If Atlanta scores at the end of the game, you are right, we know what happens. If the Agholor/Torry Smith catch is intercepted we don't know what happens because there was still a half to play (and that catch led to a FG not a TD). 

Look, luck plays into every game. The Patriots are lucky that Dee Ford lined up offsides. The Rams are lucky the refs didn't call pass interference. Yet, I am sure you will still call the winner of the Super Bowl the legitimate Super Bowl Champ. Foles took that good luck and had two awesome playoff games on the biggest stage. He then took his opportunity to lead the Eagles late in the season this year to 4 straight must win victories. 3 of which were against 10 win teams, and 2 of those on the road. You don't have to say Nick Foles is a great QB, but if you don't at least concede that he played very clutch and made the most of his opportunities, then I think your Cowboy fan bias is hurting your objectivity.

Edited by dhockster

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3 hours ago, JuniorNB said:

His success in Chip's offense was parallel to Chip's success in the league. Started like gangbusters and quickly became very average.  Both had one good year.

And Eagles fans don't disparage Foles' accomplishments. We are just real enough to also add the bad stuff to his resume. He's had plenty of both.

:lmao: You're doing just that, amazingly in this post. You're basically saying his 27/2 year was bc of Chip Kelly, not bc he is a solid QB.

Edited by fantasycurse42

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3 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

:lmao: You're doing just that, amazingly in this post.

Being balanced does not mean you ignore the bad stuff.  In fact, it requires you to look at the negatives.  The problem with being disparaging in this context junior noted is that it ignores the positives to effectually amplify the negatives.   

I thought the posting was completely reasonable.

Edited by cobalt_27

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2 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

:lmao: You're doing just that, amazingly in this post. You're basically saying his 27/2 year was bc of Chip Kelly, not bc he is a solid QB.

Wrong.  I'm saying you have to look at his entire body of work. He's had great seasons and awful ones. I consider them all, as well as the factors that may have contributed. Since his Chip Kelly days, Foles has been asked to be the starter one time in his career and he bombed enormously. Guys like you love to act like that season doesn't count because Jeff Fisher was his coach.  Yet, you want to claim that his lone great year, which was 6 years ago and when the league was getting its first look at Chip Kelly's offense, is  supposed to be the real Nick Foles.  Either consider both of those seasons or neither. You can't cherry pick to try to prove a point you've been getting destroyed on.

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2 minutes ago, cobalt_27 said:

Being balanced does not mean you ignore the bad stuff.  In fact, it requires you to look at the negatives.  The problem with being disparaging in this context junior noted is that it ignores the positives to effectually amplify the negatives.   

I thought the posting was completely reasonable.

The premise of his post is that his best season was bc a gimmick offense. If that isn't backhanded compliment, I don't what is.

Yet somehow, long after that gimmick offense is out of the league, this guy is a SB MVP.

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2 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Wrong.  I'm saying you have to look at his entire body of work. He's had great seasons and awful ones. I consider them all, as well as the factors that may have contributed. Since his Chip Kelly days, Foles has been asked to be the starter one time in his career and he bombed enormously. Guys like you love to act like that season doesn't count because Jeff Fisher was his coach.  Yet, you want to claim that his lone great year, which was 6 years ago and when the league was getting its first look at Chip Kelly's offense, is  supposed to be the real Nick Foles.  Either consider both of those seasons or neither. You can't cherry pick to try to prove a point you've been getting destroyed on.

His lone great year? I'd consider him coming off the pine, lighting it up, and leading a team to a title his lone great year, if you want to narrow it down to one. I'd also consider this year solid, I'd also consider that year with Chip Kelly very good. 

You keep bringing Fisher up - rumblings of Jared Goff being a bust were growing louder under him. He didn't even like Goff. 

To the bold, if that makes you sleep better at night :thumbup:

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7 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

His lone great year? I'd consider him coming off the pine, lighting it up, and leading a team to a title his lone great year, if you want to narrow it down to one. I'd also consider this year solid, I'd also consider that year with Chip Kelly very good. 

You keep bringing Fisher up - rumblings of Jared Goff being a bust were growing louder under him. He didn't even like Goff. 

To the bold, if that makes you sleep better at night :thumbup:

You did exactly what I accused you of.  Acting like Jeff Fisher was the one misreading defenses and throwing picks.  :lol:  

As for the Super Bowl run, it was pure magic.  But I can't consider a 3 game run to be a 'great year'.  It was 1 good game and two great ones. His 27-2 year in 2013 was certainly not as important, but a definitely his best year.  Foles' regular season games after Wentz' injury were not so good. 

If Foles can get just one NFL GM to put the Fantasycurse blinders on and only consider his 2013 season and three game playoff run in 2017, he's going to be getting about 35 million a year and be the highest paid QB on the planet.  But I tend to think they'll consider his 7 year body of work and offer him about 20 mill.  We'll see who's right. 

 

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20 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

The premise of his post is that his best season was bc a gimmick offense. If that isn't backhanded compliment, I don't what is.

Yet somehow, long after that gimmick offense is out of the league, this guy is a SB MVP.

The problem with assessing Foles is one of sample size and a lot of noise in the data.  One cannot fully dismiss Foles as a bum because he has performed well in spots, including a marvelous Super Bowl.  But, to ignore his down stretches is equally dubious.  Fact is, we have spotty data on him.  He’s never started a full season.  He’s been in a mosh mosh of roles.  His SB MVP only provides evidence to the conclusion he’s not a complete stiff.  It does not mean he is an “MVP caliber” player.  One need only look at the history of SB MVPs to draw that obvious conclusion.

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7 minutes ago, cobalt_27 said:

The problem with assessing Foles is one of sample size and a lot of noise in the data.  One cannot fully dismiss Foles as a bum because he has performed well in spots, including a marvelous Super Bowl.  But, to ignore his down stretches is equally dubious.  Fact is, we have spotty data on him.  He’s never started a full season.  He’s been in a mosh mosh of roles.  His SB MVP only provides evidence to the conclusion he’s not a complete stiff.  It does not mean he is an “MVP caliber” player.  One need only look at the history of SB MVPs to draw that obvious conclusion.

And if his teams end up being 6-10, it's not going to much matter that he's a great playoff quarterback.

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28 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

You did exactly what I accused you of.  Acting like Jeff Fisher was the one misreading defenses and throwing picks.  :lol:  

I'm not going to say Foles didn't contribute to his failure with the Rams but isn't it a bit telling to you that the season after Fisher was fired that 3 of the final 4 QBs left in the NFC not only failed under Fisher but looked like total garbage? Heck even Gurley was trash that season.

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12 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

1. Andy Reid’s - albeit some of it was in the preseason (but I remember being super impressed with his poise and accuracy).

2. Chip Kelly’s

3. Doug Pederson’s

So ignoring college (where he was obviously very good) he’s thrives in 3 of the 4 NFL systems he’s played in.

Despite all three successes coming as a member of the Eagles (although he played well in relief on the Chiefs also) saying ”OUR” system  is disingenuous since it was under three different coaching staffs - it’s not like there’s some magical “Eagles’ system”.

ETA: and just so there’s no confusion I said earlier in this thread there was close to zero chance the Eagles would choose Foles over Wentz before it became official so this post has nothing to do with Foles v Wentz, I just find it odd how all the Eagles fans come out to try and disparage Foles accomplishments, it seems like they should be the ones celebrating the guy.

Again, making an argument where there is none.  We absolutely celebrated and will continue to celebrate the guy.  He's got a damn statue outside of our stadium and will be a hero in Philly for life.  It's not downplaying his accomplishments by being a realist about what his contract likely will be and how he is. 

And lol at "preseason poise".   I hope he crushes it in jax or wherever he ends up, but I don't think he's a top 10 qb in the league.  That makes me a bad fan?  I cheered my heart out for that guy.

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7 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I'm not going to say Foles didn't contribute to his failure with the Rams but isn't it a bit telling to you that the season after Fisher was fired that 3 of the final 4 QBs left in the NFC not only failed under Fisher but looked like total garbage? Heck even Gurley was trash that season.

Ya the Fisher thing definitely holds some weight, but its not the only thing.  Truth probably lies in the middle.  Hopefully he doesn't go to another awful coach like that again.

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3 minutes ago, Deamon said:

Again, making an argument where there is none.  We absolutely celebrated and will continue to celebrate the guy.  He's got a damn statue outside of our stadium and will be a hero in Philly for life.  It's not downplaying his accomplishments by being a realist about what his contract likely will be and how he is. 

And lol at "preseason poise".   I hope he crushes it in jax or wherever he ends up, but I don't think he's a top 10 qb in the league.  That makes me a bad fan?  I cheered my heart out for that guy.

You’re unable to see if a guy can play in a preseason game? And why be a #### about it?

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1 minute ago, Dr. Octopus said:

You’re unable to see if a guy can play in a preseason game? And why be a #### about it?

Not sure how I'm being a #### in the slightest.  Apologies if I was.

Against bench defenses, no not really.  Under Andy in Philly he really wasn't good.  6 tds and 5 ints.  79 passer rating.  Also not very good his final year in Philly before his awful year in LA (agree, a lot had to do with his coach).

We all agree that he played his best football in the clutch these last two years.  Sometimes things just fall certain ways in this league.  Again, if Julio catches that pass, this thread doesn't exist and we likely get him back this offseason for a cheap backup deal. 

The guy will always be celebrated in Philly.  I don't think he's a HOF qb or top 10 in the league, but hey, you're welcome to that opinion.  We'll just have to see how he does next year as a full time starter.  The guy is one of the best dudes in football, I'd rather be 'wrong' and him tear up the league and win the mvp next year (ok, 2nd place in mvp votes to carson ;) ) because he deserves that.

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14 minutes ago, Deamon said:


The guy will always be celebrated in Philly.  I don't think he's a HOF qb or top 10 in the league, but hey, you're welcome to that opinion. 

Wait my opinion is he’s a HOF QB or a top 10 QB? Go figure. 

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5 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Wait my opinion is he’s a HOF QB or a top 10 QB? Go figure. 

So what is he to you then?  You probably have the same opinion of where he stands as me if you don't think he's top 10. 

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9 minutes ago, Deamon said:

So what is he to you then?  You probably have the same opinion of where he stands as me if you don't think he's top 10. 

My opinions on him is he’s an above average starting QB and he does not have to be a even a top 10 QB to be paid like a top 5 QB (although I’m not sure he’ll crack that) when he hits free agency. I’ve said earlier in the thread I expect he will be paid closer to Kirk Cousins then Case Keenum, assuming he truly becomes a free agent, and I’ll stand by that. It’s all about timing with QB contracts.

I keep seeing Eagles fans in this thread think he’ll only make $20MM a year in free agency (maybe because that’s the option they have on him?) but I think that’s underestimating the market and the fact he’s much better than Case Keenum. Perhaps I’ll end up being wrong but I just don’t see that.

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36 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

My opinions on him is he’s an above average starting QB and he does not have to be a even a top 10 QB to be paid like a top 5 QB (although I’m not sure he’ll crack that) when he hits free agency. I’ve said earlier in the thread I expect he will be paid closer to Kirk Cousins then Case Keenum, assuming he truly becomes a free agent, and I’ll stand by that. It’s all about timing with QB contracts.

I keep seeing Eagles fans in this thread think he’ll only make $20MM a year in free agency (maybe because that’s the option they have on him?) but I think that’s underestimating the market and the fact he’s much better than Case Keenum. Perhaps I’ll end up being wrong but I just don’t see that.

Keenum bombed this year, but had a great season in Minnesota in 2017. I'm not sure how much better teams will consider Foles than they considered Keenum coming off of last year.

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Sometimes I really think people like to criticize Eagles fans because we're, well Eagles fans.  I've seen nothing but realistic expectations for Foles going forward and praise for everything he's done the last 2 seasons.  Yet somehow it Eagles fans being argumentative.  Go figure.

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42 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Keenum bombed this year, but had a great season in Minnesota in 2017. I'm not sure how much better teams will consider Foles than they considered Keenum coming off of last year.

In this QB driven league, at least one team is going to throw money at Fokes and their QB issue.  Foles is getting paid.  

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