Official 2019 Oakland (?) Raiders Thread (1 Viewer)

Stompin' Tom Connors said:

More than a bummer, that's a huge kick in the gut. Was making plays all over the field and setting the tone, one which we haven't displayed in a long time.

Our secondary was the one area on D I was confident was solid. Now with the loss of Abram, and now we suddenly look very thin at safety.  Aside from Joyner and Joseph, not sure I'd trust Harris, Leavitt, or Riley. Not sure I trust Joseph yet for that matter.

Anyone out there Mayock can go get that will be worth it? Eric Berry? TJ McDonald? Maybe Guenther revives George Iloka?

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That sucks big hairy monkey balls. 

I don't think Guenther uses tradtional SS and FS roles. If so, I lean towards Berry. Good coverage skills and Joseph can be more of the thumper/near line play guy anyways. 

Chaka said:

Why in the world would you say that? A generational talent is an irrelevant generational talent when he's playing for another team.

Coop may not be that kind of talent but he's a legitimate #1 WR and a hard.working, high character guy. He's also the guy who doesn't whine and moan his way off a team like a petulant 6th grader.

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Cooper wasn't playing like a legit #1 like he is now. Marginal #1- they force fed him to get him going game after game. Something was going on with him with us or maybe he needed the motivation of being traded? Either way his play with Dallas is noticeably much better than with us. 

There is no replacing the Abram Tank. He made more impact plays in one game on a shoulder that reportedly busted in Q1 than Joseph made in 4 years.

On the bright side, at least we don't have to deal with the rape accusation crap now with AB. 

Chaka said:

Coop may not be that kind of talent but he's a legitimate #1 WR and a hard.working, high character guy. He's also the guy who doesn't whine and moan his way off a team like a petulant 6th grader.

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No he's the type of guy who quietly moans and passively whines via body language to get his way off a team. There is a common denominator here between the two, even if methodology was 180 degrees apart.

I think i just saw Gunther say Conley good to go this weekend 

Following a season-ending injury to S Johnathan Abram, the Raiders tried out veteran DBs T.J. McDonald, Kentrell Brice, Juston Burris and Briean Boddy-Calhoun.

So at least I've heard of McDonald.

Seems really weird we aren't bringing in bigger names like Berry (who I think is shot but why not kick the tires) or more obviously, Iloka.

We have the $, and we definitely have a hole to fill, even if Conley is back on the field.

Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Following a season-ending injury to S Johnathan Abram, the Raiders tried out veteran DBs T.J. McDonald, Kentrell Brice, Juston Burris and Briean Boddy-Calhoun.

So at least I've heard of McDonald.

Seems really weird we aren't bringing in bigger names like Berry (who I think is shot but why not kick the tires) or more obviously, Iloka.

We have the $, and we definitely have a hole to fill, even if Conley is back on the field.

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Yeah, think it’s odd that Berry is off the grid. Either he is done or plans on joining the Chiefs for the playoff run. 

efactor said:

Yeah, think it’s odd that Berry is off the grid. Either he is done or plans on joining the Chiefs for the playoff run. 

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Guy has a Hagland's deformity on his heel that makes it extremely painful to run on, and I heard somewhere (not sure if true) that he's opted to not have surgery, so while he has talent, I am not sure I would want to consider him anyway.

Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Following a season-ending injury to S Johnathan Abram, the Raiders tried out veteran DBs T.J. McDonald, Kentrell Brice, Juston Burris and Briean Boddy-Calhoun.

So at least I've heard of McDonald.

Seems really weird we aren't bringing in bigger names like Berry (who I think is shot but why not kick the tires) or more obviously, Iloka.

We have the $, and we definitely have a hole to fill, even if Conley is back on the field.

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Iloka is the odd one missing there having been in Guenther's system. 

McDonald seems to be the odds on favorite unless one of these other kids have undiscovered talent. 

Reality check coming sunday....

Raiders just beat the worst team in the AFC west...

Stinkin Ref said:

Reality check coming sunday....

Raiders just beat the worst team in the AFC west...

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Indeed with you zeebs out for revenge 

LawFitz said:

There is no replacing the Abram Tank. He made more impact plays in one game on a shoulder that reportedly busted in Q1 than Joseph made in 4 years.

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Agree. While a small sample size he appeared to be the type of player that could make receivers fear going over the middle, and cover TEs!

Stinkin Ref said:

Reality check coming sunday....

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Likely for sure.

But if our O line plays the way it did against the Donks, enabling Carr to be sharp, we will able to both move the chains and keep up in the score and enable some ball control.

Trade for Minkah Fitzpatrick. Joseph may be gone after this year with his contract coming up and a trio of Abram and Fitzpatrick and Joyner could be sick.

Raiders signed DB Juston Burris.

krsone21 said:

Trade for Minkah Fitzpatrick. Joseph may be gone after this year with his contract coming up and a trio of Abram and Fitzpatrick and Joyner could be sick.

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Exactly.

Despite telling myself there's some things to be encouraged about in this matchup (the Chiefs apparently can't stop the run--enter Jacobs, Hill out, Mahomes maybe not 100%), I have a feeling today's going to be a rude wake-up call and a back to reality moment:

Chiefs 31, Raiders 13.

Then on the road for five weeks. Dang. That's just not fair.

krsone21 said:

Trade for Minkah Fitzpatrick. Joseph may be gone after this year with his contract coming up and a trio of Abram and Fitzpatrick and Joyner could be sick.

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I'd be on board for that.   

The Cowboys are hot and heavy for him also.  

Ed Wood said:

Despite telling myself there's some things to be encouraged about in this matchup (the Chiefs apparently can't stop the run--enter Jacobs, Hill out, Mahomes maybe not 100%), I have a feeling today's going to be a rude wake-up call and a back to reality moment:

Chiefs 31, Raiders 13.

Then on the road for five weeks. Dang. That's just not fair.

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KC is incredible on offense.  They will score plenty against every team this season.  As long as the Raiders play hard and keep it competitive for 3/4 of the game, it is a good showing by the young Raiders team.  The plan by the Raiders has to be to run Jacobs early and often to keep Mahomes off the field.  

Not expecting us to win. Would be great to see us competitive and hang in this game.

But imagine -- just imagine -- what would happen if we did win. How huge that would be not only for the standings but the team's confidence, especially with a very hard road stretch coming up.

GO RAIDERS!

I could not see the game. Not an unexpected outcome. KC has a strong team. Would like to hear thoughts on what some of you saw. 

Only saw the 1st quarter. We were looking good at that point

Chadstroma said:

I could not see the game. Not an unexpected outcome. KC has a strong team. Would like to hear thoughts on what some of you saw. 

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Offense was effective and balanced early, but fell apart a bit when forced to play from behind.

D-line was stout, but secondary played like swiss cheese.

It's possible both of those are a consequence of playing the KC D and Mahomes, and not an actual reflection of the Raiders.  But that's how I saw it.

Defense did not make Mahomes uncomfortable so he shredded the secondary. Offensively, while they are improve they still lack true offensive threats on the perimeter, allowing the defense to focus on taking Williams away.  

Chadstroma said:

I could not see the game. Not an unexpected outcome. KC has a strong team. Would like to hear thoughts on what some of you saw. 

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Reality check happened .....Raiders still Raiders.... at least Denver sucks ....

We actually looked really great in the first Q -- drove the field a few times and looked strong doing it. We should have converted a 3rd down to get a TD instead of a FG, but you can't win them all. We were also looking solid on D -- making tackles, preventing the run, containing Mahomes and forcing throws. 

We completely fell apart in the 2nd. Mahomes carved us up through the air, mostly on deep balls where our secondary was out of position or just got flat out beat. We only lost Abrams, but the entire secondary went from promising to looking like high school JV. Guys like Nixon simply looked overmatched, Joseph was variable and mostly poor in coverage, and our linebackers couldn't keep up with their assignments streaking downfield. That quarter literally killed us as we then had zero response on offense - we stalled frequently, couldn't move the chains, and both sides of the ball made mistakes. Mahomes and all receivers simply had a field day.

The good news is that we limited scoring in the second half. The bad is that we still couldn't score and get closer. Carr threw some bad picks and looked uncharacteristically overmatched at time against pressure. I expect more from our receivers, as well. All had  drops, but Renfrow and Grant had more that Williams. Was expecting Renfrow to be way more polished and NFL ready -- looks like he is still adjusting. Grant has no excuse, he's been in this dance before and simply didn't contribute much. 

Bright spots continued to be Josh Jacobs -- so impressed with him. He runs with such power and intensity, burst and acceleration. Always falling forward, the O-line creating holes for him, and where they weren't, he used great vision and patience to sprint through the LOS, often to the second level. He was stuffed 2-3 times, but the rest looked like 5-8 yards were automatic, and he was always a threat for a big play. On his long scamper, what specifically impressed me was that he could have leaked out of bounds when running along the sidelines, which most backs/receivers do to save their bodies. Instead, Jacobs chose to cut infield directly at a defender to initiate contact and lowered his shoulder and ran at the tackle. The kid has TONS of heart and is a joy to watch. 

Waller also continues to shine, he is such an athlete and creates mismatches all over the field, and executes. Ty Williams was mostly solid, and his TD was a great adjusting catch. 

Will also give the D props for shutting down the KC run game. It's simply pass d that needs the most work.

I want to see what happened to Harris, he was helped off the field and looked badly hurt, which would really hurt our ST.

Overall a punch in the gut as that was a game we could have  -- and should have -- kept close. Not saying we could have won it, as the Chiefs are simply a fantastic offensive team. But we definitely should have been in that game to give us a shot at the end. 

1-1. Let's see how we fare on the road. Rough sailing ahead for our pillaging pirates. Hope we stick together as a team, learn from this, heal up, and carry on. 

My God, the secondary is really bad.   

Gareon Conley just got abused by Robinson.  As usual, Kelce had his way with the safeties.   I can only imagine what would have happened had Tyreek Hill been healthy.  

Josh Jacobs was impressive, but they went away from him once the Silver and Black fell behind.  Derek Carr doesn't even try to push the ball down the field.   He only averaged a horrific 5.4 yards per attempt today.   He simply isn't a franchise QB; the contrast between Carr and Mahomes is as wide as the Grand Canyon.   

dcgangstas said:

My God, the secondary is really bad.   

Gareon Conley just got abused by Robinson.  As usual, Kelce had his way with the safeties.   I can only imagine what would have happened had Tyreek Hill been healthy.  

Josh Jacobs was impressive, but they went away from him once the Silver and Black fell behind.  Derek Carr doesn't even try to push the ball down the field.   He only averaged a horrific 5.4 yards per attempt today.   He simply isn't a franchise QB; the contrast between Carr and Mahomes is as wide as the Grand Canyon.   

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To be fair to Carr, Mahomes is on another planet right now. But I get it. Take away the thousand yards and 20 TDs Mahomes threw in the 2nd quarter, the most disappointing thing about this game was the offense. To only muster 10 points against KC's defense is pathetic. 

It was the same old song and dance, KC scores a TD and they need Carr and the offense to put together a long TD drive to keep up with them. And what do they do? 3 and out... Then a deflated and exhausted defense has to go right back out there. Of course they looked bad, nobody can keep up with those guys if your offense can't stay on the field, and when they do, they commit a turn over in the red zone.

Bottom line, the team is evolving and getting better around Carr. But, they have a ways to go to able to compete with the really good teams in the league. 

DocHolliday said:

As long as the Raiders play hard and keep it competitive for 3/4 of the game, it is a good showing by the young Raiders team.

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Well, I think they did that. Manage the clock better at the end of the half, kick a field goal, it's 28-13. Then if Carr doesn't botch the throw from the 4 (ON FIRST DOWN WITH JOSH JACOBS AVAILABLE--WILL GRUDEN EVER LEARN???) then it's 28-20 midway thru the third. Then who knows. KC lost its offensive momentum and maybe they don't get it back.

Speaking of Gruden, he brought up the "p" word again after the game. He shouldn't do that. That just means we can bring up the "m" trade again.

It's too early to say but it looks like the Raiders have at least gotten a couple gems out of the draft—Jacobs definitely looks like the real deal, and Abrams looks like he could be.

Ed Wood said:

Well, I think they did that. Manage the clock better at the end of the half, kick a field goal, it's 28-13. Then if Carr doesn't botch the throw from the 4 (ON FIRST DOWN WITH JOSH JACOBS AVAILABLE--WILL GRUDEN EVER LEARN???) then it's 28-20 midway thru the third. Then who knows. KC lost its offensive momentum and maybe they don't get it back.

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Play call at the 4 was a run.  Carr checked out of it because he didn't like the matchup with the D.  Hand signal to Williams was missed by Williams.   Williams didn't run the route Carr expected as Williams still was playing the original called play. 

If we are going to celebrate the times checking out works (throw to seal the game in week 1), we need to take the lumps when it doesn't.  

As for the 28 point second quarter... 2, if not 3 of those scores would have been TD throws on about 99% of the defenses in the league.  Doesn't mean that the Raiders D shouldn't play better, but they weren't out there competing against some scrub.  Mahomes is simply playing at a different level.

kaso said:

Play call at the 4 was a run.  Carr checked out of it because he didn't like the matchup with the D.  Hand signal to Williams was missed by Williams.   Williams didn't run the route Carr expected as Williams still was playing the original called play. 

If we are going to celebrate the times checking out works (throw to seal the game in week 1), we need to take the lumps when it doesn't.  

As for the 28 point second quarter... 2, if not 3 of those scores would have been TD throws on about 99% of the defenses in the league.  Doesn't mean that the Raiders D shouldn't play better, but they weren't out there competing against some scrub.  Mahomes is simply playing at a different level.

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Ah, did not know. Good info.

KC made Jax look like swiss cheese. HOU then got shutdown by JAX D. 

So while Raiders played bad...it was against a historically great offense. The not good takeaways is that Carr doesn't take shots down the field. Consider the game out of reach if we get down 2 TDs. 

Was only able to really catch the highlights. Seems like a lot of the big Chiefs plays came on 3rd down, and specifically in the big 2nd quarter they were 3rd and longs.

Stinkin Ref said:

Reality check happened .....Raiders still Raiders.... at least Denver sucks ....

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Because KC is a crappy team. How many people have them being one of the few teams to challenge the Cheatriots for the AFC? Come on now. We knew it was a game we were likely to lose. 

I didn't see the game so my thoughts are limited to some highlights I picked up and comments from others and stats. 

KC. This is a team that will be putting up a whole lot more points on teams than 28 this year. They put up 40 against a good JAX team. Take the one horrible Q out and they shut them down. A offense that will be making a strong case for the best offense in the league this year.

We added 2 more sacks. I would like to see more of course but comparatively to last year that is encouraging. We are almost half the total from last year in the first two games. That is an encouraging sign. 

Jacobs has almost 9 YPC. That will turn into a lot of wins for us if he continues to do as he has these first two games. 

Not being able to put points on the board in the second half makes me more concerned about the dynamics of the ability for us to create things in the passing game. Williams is legit but I do worry he can be taken out of the game with doubles. Waller is legit as well. Two guys to worry about is something that NFL defenses do every week. We need a third guy to come up and be a threat. I worry we don't have that. The answer is Jacobs and keeping the D's off balance with a mix of run and pass. If Jacobs is still in the game (not getting blown out) he IS that third guy and can make the offense go.  

Mahomes makes the kind of throws not many -- if any -- QBs can make -- present day or all time greats. Pains me to say it about a Chiefs QB but there it is.

He really is superb specifically at the long ball with knowing where his receivers will get open, and in rolling out and making thrown in motion with pinpoint accuracy. KC also has a pretty solid O-line and it showed -- we weren't getting consistent pressure or disrupting timing.

Some positives is that we did lock down the scoring after that 2nd Q, but Worley, Conley, and Mullen looked out of depth in man coverage, both not tracking the ball or keeping up with receivers. Will have to look at game tape to see if we were blowing coverages, had bad adjustments, or simply flat out beat with speed, but it really was the deep passes that killed us. 

I think Joyner is solid, but he can't do it alone. Have always liked Karl Joseph but he is way too uneven. Abram still has a lot to prove but we clearly miss his presence. 

Not many teams will be able to stop KC's onslaught -- we did for 3 quarters. The main problem was being beat so bad in one Q, and simply not executing well on offense to keep up.

Some other nice surprises was Benson Mayowa -- really good to have him back and hope he continues that trajectory, he's needed up front to complement Ferrell.

We get Incognito back for the Minny game, which should be a big boost to both our pass and run games. Looking forward to moving past this deflating loss -- the character of the team will be defined in how they respond.

Jalen Ramsey wants to be traded. I would give up one of our 3's next year for him and a 5th or 6th. Am I wrong?

Chadstroma said:

Jalen Ramsey wants to be traded. I would give up one of our 3's next year for him and a 5th or 6th. Am I wrong?

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You're not wrong.   

But be forewarned, as talented as Ramsey is he can be disruptive in the locker room.  He will challenge authority if he doesn't see eye-to-eye with the coaching staff.   And he won't hesitate to be critical to the media in interviews.   

I have no idea why we aren't going after Minkah Fitzpatrick or Jaylen Ramsey right now.

We have some cap space freed up by AB, our promising rookie is IR'd, and while they might not be long term signings, and we may need to give up a draft pick, they can help us open this window up a little wider for us to get back to winning ways.

If there is one thing the Chiefs game taught us is that we still need help on D. We have been decent, if not good, up front against the run and are generating some degree of sacks. We can fill those positions out in next year's draft.

Our secondary is still an area of need. 

Why would anyone want Ramsey after the Antonio Brown fiasco?

He's a player but far more disruptive than he is worth.

Fitzpatrick OTOH...

Chaka said:

Why would anyone want Ramsey after the Antonio Brown fiasco?

He's a player but far more disruptive than he is worth.

Fitzpatrick OTOH...

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Fins are purportedly holding out for a first for Minkah.

We have a first to give. It's a dear price, but for a 22 year old safety disgruntled by a tanking team (not a great sign) who is looking to completely tear themselves down, in a position of need?

Might be worth it. It's too bad we don't have a second to offer up.

Chaka said:

Why would anyone want Ramsey after the Antonio Brown fiasco?

He's a player but far more disruptive than he is worth.

Fitzpatrick OTOH...

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agreed. I'd love to see us use a future pick to reel in Fitzpatrick and try to make our DBs be a future area of strength instead of a massive Achilles heel.

Stompin' Tom Connors said:

I have no idea why we aren't going after Minkah Fitzpatrick or Jaylen Ramsey right now.

We have some cap space freed up by AB, our promising rookie is IR'd, and while they might not be long term signings, and we may need to give up a draft pick, they can help us open this window up a little wider for us to get back to winning ways.

If there is one thing the Chiefs game taught us is that we still need help on D. We have been decent, if not good, up front against the run and are generating some degree of sacks. We can fill those positions out in next year's draft.

Our secondary is still an area of need. 

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I think @dcgangstasis hitting it on the Ramsey front. Likely Mayock and Gruden are a little shy after the whole AB debacle of going after someone who has shown to be a problem in their locker room and wants out. 

Fitzpatrick doesn't have that reputation so not sure there. I would like to explore either of them and look to sign one of the FA safeties too to bolster things. Iloka must have nothing left in the tank if Guenther doesn't have a pen and contract ready for him. 

Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Fins are purportedly holding out for a first for Minkah.

We have a first to give. It's a dear price, but for a 22 year old safety disgruntled by a tanking team (not a great sign) who is looking to completely tear themselves down, in a position of need?

Might be worth it. It's too bad we don't have a second to offer up.

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A 1st is a big price there. I don't want to give up that for him. 

Chaka said:

Why would anyone want Ramsey after the Antonio Brown fiasco?

He's a player but far more disruptive than he is worth.

Fitzpatrick OTOH...

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Right on

Minkah to the Steelers for a 1st. He is off the table. 

NO to trading for other teams' malcontents. That only works for highly competitive, established teams with strong locker rooms. Have you ####ers learned nothing?

That Steelers pick could be pretty high. I'm a little surprised, especially considering the QB talent in next years draft. 

SDJohnny said:

That Steelers pick could be pretty high. I'm a little surprised, especially considering the QB talent in next years draft. 

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Yea, it is an odd move. Team already struggling and you lose your starting QB. Your backup comes in and though didn't do horrible didn't turn things around so you ship your 1st for a slot/safety? Sure, he is a great talent. But.... is that the move you make if you are the Steelers? 

JAX is reportedly asking for at least a 1st but actually more for Ramsey. Yea.... good luck with that guys. You are not exactly in a strong position to deal. They may be hoping to ask high and come down as a strategy.  I would still take the risk with one of our 3rds though. That talent..... but we may be too gun shy. Two attempts to send 3rd rounders to get a guy who had issues and two massive fails.