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Hankmoody

Official 2019 Oakland (?) Raiders Thread

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1 hour ago, Ed Wood said:

The older I get the more I despise prima donna players like Antonio Brown. That's why I had such high hopes for Amari Cooper. (Paul Warfield, please come out of retirement.)

BUT...would getting Brown for a 1 make the Mack trade a little more palatable? Is a 1 even plausible or would the Steelers want more? Does he cost too much for the Raiders' liking? Is his age a detriment considering Gruden has a 10-year pl...er, make that nine-year plan?

I know he'd fill a huge hole.

Raider fans who know more than me (that's probably all of you), please weigh in.

Nothing would make the Mack trade more palatable. My palate was burned to a crisp by that trade.

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42 minutes ago, LawFitz said:

Nothing would make the Mack trade more palatable. My palate was burned to a crisp by that trade.

Agreed.  I'm not sure that I will ever get over that trade.  

The Raiders don't need Antonio Brown.  He's the best WR in the game but I doubt Gruden would use him properly .  And, Carr probably wouldn't target him enough to take advantage of his skills.   

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Haha! I agree with you both, Law and Doc. I was thinking not long after that trade, what I would have asked for? I came up with five 1s. 😁 And that wouldn't have been enough. Bird in the hand and all that.

This was all Davis' fault. If Gruden would have signed a contract for a reasonable length of time (say four years), there's no way he trades Mack. He says to himself, "I've got four years to get this done or at least come damn close and I need this guy to do it."

But 10 years? Heck, in that time he can try and build it up, fail miserably, tear it down and try and build it up again.

Al underestimated Gruden's worth as a coach. Gruden should have had double the seasons he had in his first stint with the team. Mark overestimated it. He might be there twice as long as he should be.

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20 hours ago, Ed Wood said:

The older I get the more I despise prima donna players like Antonio Brown. That's why I had such high hopes for Amari Cooper. (Paul Warfield, please come out of retirement.)

BUT...would getting Brown for a 1 make the Mack trade a little more palatable? Is a 1 even plausible or would the Steelers want more? Does he cost too much for the Raiders' liking? Is his age a detriment considering Gruden has a 10-year pl...er, make that nine-year plan?

I know he'd fill a huge hole.

Raider fans who know more than me (that's probably all of you), please weigh in.

Obviously they need talent across the board. I think a late 1st for Brown wouldn't be a bad idea. Hes better than anyone they would draft at 24 or 27 most likely. I think the bigger question does Brown even want to play in Oakland/Vegas? I'm sure he wants to play for a contender and not an expansion team. 

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I want D, D and D with our 3 first round picks (liking the DE/DL, LB and DBs I’ve seen mocked to us at 4, 24 and 27, respectively) and then feel free to grab a RB or WR at the top of the 2nd round since they all sound like they’re similar rankings to me. 

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On February 1, 2019 at 1:11 PM, Bruno2 said:

Obviously they need talent across the board. I think a late 1st for Brown wouldn't be a bad idea. Hes better than anyone they would draft at 24 or 27 most likely. I think the bigger question does Brown even want to play in Oakland/Vegas? I'm sure he wants to play for a contender and not an expansion team. 

The Raiders don't need Brown at this point.  Brown is a great WR but at 31 it doesn't make sense for a rebuilding team to bother with him.   And, Brown would go nuts in Oakland.  

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On 2/27/2019 at 4:49 PM, joey said:

I want D, D and D with our 3 first round picks (liking the DE/DL, LB and DBs I’ve seen mocked to us at 4, 24 and 27, respectively) and then feel free to grab a RB or WR at the top of the 2nd round since they all sound like they’re similar rankings to me. 

What's the consensus about the Raiders standing pat with these picks? I'd say there's a high chance (like 90%) they make some sort of deal involving the first round. And boy the hype is growing on D.K. Metcalf.

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This team needs an infusion of great players on both sides of the ball.  Generally, those players are found in the first round so I hope the Raiders stand pat and take BPA.  I said the same thing before last years draft and that isn't what happened so what I think means nothing.  Then again, maybe the Raiders learned from last year and won't reach again.  

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On 2/28/2019 at 7:29 AM, DocHolliday said:

The Raiders don't need Brown at this point.  Brown is a great WR but at 31 it doesn't make sense for a rebuilding team to bother with him.   And, Brown would go nuts in Oakland.  

This.  Oakland getting Brown would be unbelievably stupid.  It's bipolar personnel management.  You don't trade a 27 yo elite HoF level player like Mack and a very good 24 yo WR to then turn around and cash in what you got for Mack to bring in a 31 year old.  If you needed to trade a 27 yo in a rebuild you shouldn't be bringing in anyone who is 31.

Who cares how elite he is, your rebuild is going to take 2 years at least and he's likely to not be elite by then. Just the fact that they are sniffing around at all is alarming.  

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Posted (edited)
On 2/1/2019 at 12:11 PM, Bruno2 said:

Obviously they need talent across the board. I think a late 1st for Brown wouldn't be a bad idea. Hes better than anyone they would draft at 24 or 27 most likely. I think the bigger question does Brown even want to play in Oakland/Vegas? I'm sure he wants to play for a contender and not an expansion team. 

IMO Brown would be the dumbest idea ever.

Mack is 3 times as valuable as Brown, at least, and 4 years younger.  If you can't use Mack in your rebuild you can't use Brown... 

Raiders management is completely incompetent to even consider trading a pick for Brown.  Best case scenario in terms of Brown working out is that you are kicking yourself because Brown helped the team just enough over the next 2 years to miss out on Tua, Fromm, or Lawrence in the next 2 drafts. 

Edited by kittenmittens
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“I don’t even have to play football if I don’t want, bro. I don’t even need the game. I don’t need to prove nothing to anyone. If they wanna play they gonna play by my rules. If not, I don’t need to play.”--Antonio Brown

Good grief. If Gruden shipped out Crabtree and King for not being his type of guys, how can there even be a discussion anymore about trading for Brown after that little gem?

Past time to move on...

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Really hope the rumors of Arizona taking Murray at 1 are true.  I think Bosa, Allen and Quinnen are the clear top 3 players in this draft and would love to get one of them.  

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Bottom line, no matter who has been in charge of drafting, player personnel etc, has done a horrible job over the past 20 years. The Davis' have mismanaged this franchise so badly that I would not be surprised by anything that happens during this years draft and free agency period. C'mon now, would any of you be surprised at all if the Raiders landed Antonio Brown somehow? Yes, it would probably be a terrible move but I don't put anything past these yahoos anymore. Oddly enough, Mayock might be the only voice of reason in the building.  Think about it, a team that trades away an elite pass rusher like Mack has proven they aren't above doing anything that stupid again. 

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^^^Until I see something to turn my opinion, I'm expecting the worst out of Gruden & Co. When was the last time a 27-yr-old walking HOFer who was well respected in his locker room traded? I suspect never before. ####### Chuck.

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I too fully expect another disaster of an offseason.  Gruden is in way over his head and has no plan.  The Raiders will probably give up a first for Brown.  The steelers haven't stopped laughing over the Bryant fleecing and will make history for abusing one team repeatedly off the field.  

The Raiders will then pass up great players in the draft and reach for more OTs.  

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Here's how I feel.

Last year was a total dumpster fire in every aspect and in every way for the Raiders, starting with the Mack trade.  Not just the trade itself, but how it went down and the overall bad look of how it happened and the apparent total lack of communication between Gruden and Mack and Gruden and the players about what was happening.  The whole season was a bad look for the Raiders.  Period, no argument.

But last year is over.  I've been a Raiders fan for nearly 40 freaking years.  It hurt my heart not wanting to watch my team play last year.  I liked the Gruden signing when it first happened and I'm not going to let last year make me throw in the proverbial towel on him and the Raiders.  There is so much negative energy around this team and Raiders fan lamenting about last year and how it will spill over to this year, yada yada yada.  And people aren't necessarily wrong.  I'm just sick of the negativity.

Despite how we got here, Oakland is in a very good posture heading into this season and our imminent move to Vegas.  We have lots of draft stock and lots of cap room.  I am focusing on looking forward and putting out as much positive energy as I can for the Raiders.  No doom and gloom, but positive.  Come on fellas, they need us, now more than ever.  Let's not continue to kick the dog, let's rally and think positive, or at the very least, not be so freaking negative.

Which leads me to Antonio Brown.  Yes, he's a diva and a possible headache.  But the dude can ball and is, in my opinion, the best WR in the league.  I'd happily take him onto our team because we need his talent, his skills.  Maybe people will start talking about us in a positive note since we will have the best WR in the league.  Maybe his presence will help Carr be the best he can be and closer to how he looked before breaking his leg.  Maybe his signing will help bring in other free agents so by the time we get to Vegas, we will be steadily on the rise and not spiraling towards the abyss.

I can't wait for the freaking draft!

 

 

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3 hours ago, Silver & Black said:

Here's how I feel.

Last year was a total dumpster fire in every aspect and in every way for the Raiders, starting with the Mack trade.  Not just the trade itself, but how it went down and the overall bad look of how it happened and the apparent total lack of communication between Gruden and Mack and Gruden and the players about what was happening.  The whole season was a bad look for the Raiders.  Period, no argument.

But last year is over.  I've been a Raiders fan for nearly 40 freaking years.  It hurt my heart not wanting to watch my team play last year.  I liked the Gruden signing when it first happened and I'm not going to let last year make me throw in the proverbial towel on him and the Raiders.  There is so much negative energy around this team and Raiders fan lamenting about last year and how it will spill over to this year, yada yada yada.  And people aren't necessarily wrong.  I'm just sick of the negativity.

Despite how we got here, Oakland is in a very good posture heading into this season and our imminent move to Vegas.  We have lots of draft stock and lots of cap room.  I am focusing on looking forward and putting out as much positive energy as I can for the Raiders.  No doom and gloom, but positive.  Come on fellas, they need us, now more than ever.  Let's not continue to kick the dog, let's rally and think positive, or at the very least, not be so freaking negative.

Which leads me to Antonio Brown.  Yes, he's a diva and a possible headache.  But the dude can ball and is, in my opinion, the best WR in the league.  I'd happily take him onto our team because we need his talent, his skills.  Maybe people will start talking about us in a positive note since we will have the best WR in the league.  Maybe his presence will help Carr be the best he can be and closer to how he looked before breaking his leg.  Maybe his signing will help bring in other free agents so by the time we get to Vegas, we will be steadily on the rise and not spiraling towards the abyss.

I can't wait for the freaking draft!

 

 

Great post S&B! I actually felt the same way about the Gruden hire. I thought the 2016 12-4 record was a little fluky. They had an atrocious defense and were razor thin across the board on the depth chart. The ball bounced their way a few times (which us Raider fans are not used to seeing recently) and Carr caught lightning in a bottle. It was evident after Carr went down things needed to change. The team was never the same. 

To Reggie's credit, he did draft a potential core in Mack, Carr and Cooper. But the rest of the team, save the interior Oline, was (is) devoid of talent. In comes Gruden, and he knows the team needs an infusion of talent so he dismantles the whole team from the inside out. 

This is where I personally start to question things:

1. The Bryant trade made absolutely no sense.

2a. They passed up on impact defensive players like James, Leonard and Vander Esch only to draft the next Nate Solder. To be fair, I think Miller will turn out to be a solid starter, and LT was a need. But to pass on those defensive players for him is questionable. 

2b. Forcing Carr to play with two rookie tackles. That's pretty messed up in my mind. I don't think Carr gets enough credit for even surviving the season, let alone playing well in spurts.

3. Last season was a throwaway year. It wasn't fair to the fanbase. Gruden wanted to trade away 2/3 of the young core to start over and collect draft capital. They tell us, "be patient,  just wait, we're going to turn this around." My response to that, is we have been patient for 18 years! They've amassed one of the worst records of the 21st century, pretty bad for an organization that was once the" team of the decades". We've stood by and watched the likes of JaMarcus Russell get drafted, McFadden, DHB, Mike Mitchell and countless coaching changes. 

Here we all are again, looking forward to the offseason more than the actual football season. I'm just getting ready to get disappointed once again.  

Here's what I hope: 

FA targets like CJ Moseley and Landon Collins. Impact defensive players they need so badly! What we will probably get. A couple back up Olinemen and some aging veterans on defense. 

Draft the 3 best defensive players possible. Keep it simple. No trading unless it's an offer they can't pass up. Maybe take that Metcalf kid at 24 or 27, I can live with that too. What will probably happen: trade back and draft a bunch of linemen, some we've barely heard of from directional colleges. Try to mine for RBs and WRs deep in the draft. 

My only hope is that Mayock will be under so much pressure hes not going to draft anyone off the radar. Just stick to the draft board and draft the BPAs as much as possible, don't reach for need because we got needs everywhere!

 

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7 hours ago, Silver & Black said:

Which leads me to Antonio Brown.  Yes, he's a diva and a possible headache.  But the dude can ball and is, in my opinion, the best WR in the league.  I'd happily take him onto our team because we need his talent, his skills.  Maybe people will start talking about us in a positive note since we will have the best WR in the league.  Maybe his presence will help Carr be the best he can be and closer to how he looked before breaking his leg.  Maybe his signing will help bring in other free agents so by the time we get to Vegas, we will be steadily on the rise and not spiraling towards the abyss.

Love any/all additional glass half full guys. Turn the page, move forward.

Despite how utterly wrenching last year turned out, I am excited to see who we can continue to build with this draft. A lot of needs, a lot of picks, so potential is there if we don't mess up. I think guys like Hall, Key, and Hurst can continue to develop into dependable NFL-caliber starters. Miller had a huge learning curve and hope his poorish year only leads to solid development and the next level. Psyched to see Warren healthy and running through faces like he did all preseason last year before the injury.

I hope we don't get AB, I think it's only downhill and we don't need a diva. He also doesn't match Carr's strengths - I'm not confident Carr has the fantastic long ball anymore, which is what helps AB. 

Worse comes to worst and we give up a late first rounder, at the very least we get a bona fide stud at the position, with no needing to wait on development like we may need to do with rookies. There is no denying his talent and ability, and the monstrous stats he's amassed. Perhaps with another year tacked on to his age, he develops more into a posession-type receiver -- a kind of Crabtree kind of guy who does play to Carr's strengths -- AB's sideline game is elite, as is his small-space quickness and ability to separate. He's also one of the best and craftiest route runners in the NFL, which again plays to Carr's strength -- he can finally have a reliable timing/double-move target. AB's been extraordinarily durable, and coverage needs to account for him which opens up the offense that much more.

Typing this feels like I'm already making excuses for a move I don't want us to make.

But having AB on the sidelines -- if Gruden can control and not exacerbate his diva-tendencies -- is far from a bad thing, and gets us one step further to having relevance in the here and now.

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On 3/3/2019 at 3:28 PM, ICON211 said:

Really hope the rumors of Arizona taking Murray at 1 are true.  I think Bosa, Allen and Quinnen are the clear top 3 players in this draft and would love to get one of them.  

I don't see it. I thot Rosen was way overrated but I don't think they're ready to throw in the towel after one year. They're not the Raiders after all. Kliff Kingsbury or whatever his name is is blowing smoke IMO and it's directed to get the Raiders' attention. This headline I just saw sums it up:

"2019 NFL Mock Draft: Raiders take trade bait, move up to take Kyler Murray No. 1 overall"

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2019-nfl-mock-draft-raiders-take-trade-bait-move-up-to-take-kyler-murray-no-1-overall/

I don't know who Will Brinson is or what his rep is. I didn't even read the story. I just think this is what the Cardinals are trying to do and thot that as soon as Kingsbury made such a bold (and asinine) proclamation.

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12 hours ago, Silver & Black said:

Despite how we got here, Oakland is in a very good posture heading into this season and our imminent move to Vegas.  We have lots of draft stock and lots of cap room. 

Fully agree but it's hard to have a positive outlook considering Gruden's past history. My greatest fears are that they take Murray at 4 or do whatever they need to get him and then trade a 1 for Brown. Can you imagine using 2 of those 3 1s on offense with the defense in such dire shape?

Surely they wouldn't do something so stupid...

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55 minutes ago, Ed Wood said:

I don't see it. I thot Rosen was way overrated but I don't think they're ready to throw in the towel after one year. They're not the Raiders after all. Kliff Kingsbury or whatever his name is is blowing smoke IMO and it's directed to get the Raiders' attention. This headline I just saw sums it up:

"2019 NFL Mock Draft: Raiders take trade bait, move up to take Kyler Murray No. 1 overall"

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2019-nfl-mock-draft-raiders-take-trade-bait-move-up-to-take-kyler-murray-no-1-overall/

I don't know who Will Brinson is or what his rep is. I didn't even read the story. I just think this is what the Cardinals are trying to do and thot that as soon as Kingsbury made such a bold (and asinine) proclamation.

Yep... Teams are trying to bait the Raiders. The Cards with the #1 and the Steelers dangling Brown out there. They have a new GM and a HC with not much front office experience. Makes total sense. If I were the Cards and Steelers GMs I'd be doing the same thing. As I said before, I hope Mayock can be a voice of reason in the building. The Raiders are in no position to be trading up for Murray, especially when they say Carr is their guy. They need players across the board,  one short little QB will not make the Raiders playoff contenders. As we all saw in 2016, having a QB on fire is great, but if the rest of the team is garbage they won't win anything is that QB gets injured. But then again.... Its the Raiders, anything crazy is possible. 

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48 minutes ago, Ed Wood said:

I don't see it. I thot Rosen was way overrated but I don't think they're ready to throw in the towel after one year. They're not the Raiders after all. Kliff Kingsbury or whatever his name is is blowing smoke IMO and it's directed to get the Raiders' attention. This headline I just saw sums it up:

"2019 NFL Mock Draft: Raiders take trade bait, move up to take Kyler Murray No. 1 overall"

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2019-nfl-mock-draft-raiders-take-trade-bait-move-up-to-take-kyler-murray-no-1-overall/

I don't know who Will Brinson is or what his rep is. I didn't even read the story. I just think this is what the Cardinals are trying to do and thot that as soon as Kingsbury made such a bold (and asinine) proclamation.

I think the other side of this coin is just as plausible as your take -- that AZ going out to hire Kliff Kingsbury, and giving him reins to build his system, could very well mean they take Murray first. Kingsbury was the guy who recruited Murray out of high school, after all, and that team is desperate and in need of a complete overhaul.

Everyone throws smokescreens this time of year, and in the end I tend to agree that AZ is pulling one now to lure in a QB hungry team. I don't think AZ drafts Murray unless they trade Rosen. And I don't see that happening either. Rosen started to look comfortable at the end of the year but had zero support - from his line or his skill players last year. He seems serviceable, and the team has so many more desperate needs than QB (OT, G, WR, even DE, CB, LB) -- actually, I think the only thing they DON'T need is a QB.

I also don't see Gruden making a move for Murray as I don't think we're a QB hungry team (though we absolutely need a backup/Plan B). I truly believe Gru loves Carr, loves the potential he sees in him and covets his smarts, as opposed to a QB who -- despite Murray's many upsides -- has measurables make him less of a prototypical NFL QB. 

What I do see happening is either the Giants or even Dolphins or Skins trade up and take AZ's bait, which will leave us either Josh Allen or Quinnen Williams, either of whom I would be fine with for our first pick.

If we do the inconceivable and draft Murray, I'm pouring out my half-full glass and debate whether I watch any Raider games for the next 9 years.

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14 hours ago, Ed Wood said:

Fully agree but it's hard to have a positive outlook considering Gruden's past history. My greatest fears are that they take Murray at 4 or do whatever they need to get him and then trade a 1 for Brown. Can you imagine using 2 of those 3 1s on offense with the defense in such dire shape?

Surely they wouldn't do something so stupid...

I don't disagree with anything you say....except the part about not having a positive outlook.  I think a lot of what happened last year was by design and Gruden got the face of the bad guy, which he knew would happen when he signed on.  But like him or hate him, I believe he is a true football guy who knows his stuff.  I don't see him wasting picks on guys he likes without looking at the team's big picture.  I guess I have no basis to say that, I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt and trying to stay positive.

As for Murray, I don't see it.  He can love him all he wants but I think Gruden is all in on Carr.  It's the main reason Mack went, just too much salary in two guys.  I think he knows he has to get talent around Carr for him to succeed, which is why we're linked to Brown and Williams.  Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if he takes a flier on Bell!  There are lots and lots of solid free agents on defense out there and a ton of solid defensive players via the draft.  For me, I think (and am hoping really), that they come up with a plan to use their draft stock and free agency, together, to get a chunk of the pieces of the puzzle we need.  Remember, we have 2 first rounders next year, so really, to me, were at the start of a 2 year process for Gruden.  I am hoping that after these 2 years, we look back and say, awesome!  Let's hope so. 

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Is front office’s willingness to throw a big chunk of money at AB Is a signal of their plans in free agency? There are some play makers available on the defensive side of the ball in free agency that represent an upgrade. 

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41 minutes ago, 32 Counter Pass said:

Is front office’s willingness to throw a big chunk of money at AB Is a signal of their plans in free agency? There are some play makers available on the defensive side of the ball in free agency that represent an upgrade. 

CJ Mosely isvery interesting to me.  

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Hard to not like this Antonio Brown deal.  I was afraid it was going to be a first round pick.  For a 3 and a 5.....sure sign me up.  I think this is something we can all get behind and maybe get some of that optimism going that some of you guys have talked about.

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1 hour ago, ICON211 said:

Hard to not like this Antonio Brown deal.  I was afraid it was going to be a first round pick.  For a 3 and a 5.....sure sign me up.  I think this is something we can all get behind and maybe get some of that optimism going that some of you guys have talked about.

As long as he performs he'll be worth the salary, but that's the only question.

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4 hours ago, ICON211 said:

Hard to not like this Antonio Brown deal.  I was afraid it was going to be a first round pick.  For a 3 and a 5.....sure sign me up.  I think this is something we can all get behind and maybe get some of that optimism going that some of you guys have talked about.

As someone mentioned in the Brown thread, you basically traded a 3, 5, and Cooper for Brown and a 1. Not bad.

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I'm very impressed by this deal.  One, I like that Oakland didn't collapse and give up a 1 for him.  Two, the deal we gave Brown isn't one that will cripple us, and in my opinion, gets us the best WR in the league.  His presence should do world's of good for the rest of the offense. 

 

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Posted (edited)

HELL YES!!!!!!!!!!!!  A 3rd and a 5th is a great price to roll the dice.  I have been on the AB concept from the beginning, my only fear was they would damage themselves in the process.  But a couple of mid-round picks which are dice-rolls for a HOF-level WR is an outrageously good gamble.  Hopefully there's an ounce of residue from Reggie's contract dealings and they put some level of salary cap protection in place withe new deal, but I say back up the Brinks truck and dump it at his feet.  I'm fine with $20M a year as long as there's no dead money hanging around at any time. 

Carr is now on the spot.

I didn't see the contract part that was rumored.  $54M for 3 years with $30M guaranteed.  If they front-load that into something like $10M signing and $17M/$15M/$13M then only about $10M is guaranteed after 2019.  I can live with that, if he's a whackjob that's not a huge long-term liability.  This is why they moved Cooper and I love the net result.

Edited by Hankmoody
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1 hour ago, Hankmoody said:

HELL YES!!!!!!!!!!!!  A 3rd and a 5th is a great price to roll the dice.  I have been on the AB concept from the beginning, my only fear was they would damage themselves in the process.  But a couple of mid-round picks which are dice-rolls for a HOF-level WR is an outrageously good gamble.  Hopefully there's an ounce of residue from Reggie's contract dealings and they put some level of salary cap protection in place withe new deal, but I say back up the Brinks truck and dump it at his feet.  I'm fine with $20M a year as long as there's no dead money hanging around at any time. 

Carr is now on the spot.

I didn't see the contract part that was rumored.  $54M for 3 years with $30M guaranteed.  If they front-load that into something like $10M signing and $17M/$15M/$13M then only about $10M is guaranteed after 2019.  I can live with that, if he's a whackjob that's not a huge long-term liability.  This is why they moved Cooper and I love the net result.

Yep, now they will find out if they need to draft a QB next year or not. It’s put up or shut up time for Carr as he will have a true number 1 target.

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Posted (edited)

Literally nothing to hate about this trade.

While the added year/salary/guarantee cuts into cap space, we have a lot of cap to play with, and some seems incentive based and the picks we gave were inconsequential. We landed one of the best WRs in the game for a more than reasonable outlay. Could see Gru and Maycock not being able to turn down the deal at these terms as it was when DAL offered a first for Coop.

Good trade perspectibe here: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26186487/grading-antonio-brown-trade-steelers-raiders-won

Really good skill set match comparison with DC here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/oaklandraiders/comments/azdkt9/carrs_most_successful_throws_compared_to_browns/?st=JT33SPZX&sh=b0a2a000

Also lets us focus on other need areas with those first three picks - I hope we focus on D - edge, tackle/end, LB, CB - with all three, or two of the above and BPA O lineman to shore up that corps and protect Carr and open our run game that much more.

ETA: also hope the Raiders consider spending some of that remaining cap space on landing a FA CB - a good glut of talent in FA this year at the position, which may help keep prices more reasonable.

 

Edited by Stompin' Tom Connors
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Posted (edited)

Le'veon Bell next ?

Edited by silentmark
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3 hours ago, silentmark said:

Le'veon Bell next ?

I think so

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The other element I like about this deal is that the Raiders just reset the WR market ahead of both T. Hills deal (open up that wallet KC!) AND, more importantly, the Cooper contract in Dallas!  

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Apparently KO doesn't fit Tom Cable's scheme.  I'd rather they lose Cable.  The Raiders had one of the best interior lines, hand picked their tackles, and went completely off the rails last year.  Cable is beyond terrible.  Maybe he'll punch another coach and get fired again.

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The Raiders are still a disaster even though they got a deal on paper for AB.  Brown isn't going to give 100% when the losses pile up.  Will he even show up to practice?  He is obviously interested in money, not winning   

I don't  understand the "why"?   Last years moves certainly indicated a rebuild was in place.  A high priced, old WR doesn't sound like a rebuild.  

I don't understand why Cable is still here.   He has proven that he is not a good coach.  

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19 minutes ago, Enderdog said:

Apparently KO doesn't fit Tom Cable's scheme.  I'd rather they lose Cable.  The Raiders had one of the best interior lines, hand picked their tackles, and went completely off the rails last year.  Cable is beyond terrible.  Maybe he'll punch another coach and get fired again.

Totally agree. I think KO, given his injuries last year, may not be back to form, but man did I love watching him play for us when he was "on."

I wonder if the team and medical staff are making this move based on KO not coming back to form. Either way, we need to definitely address beefing up our line as Penn is over the hill and Miller is still facing a learning curve on that side of the line, maybe overall for the NFL.

Either way, have ZERO faith in Cable. Hated to hear when Gruden brought him in and was 100% clear that this is worse for the team. Unfortunately, I don't thank that's changing unless he implodes again, to your point.

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I wont feel good about anything until I hear some improvements made on the defensive side.  CJ Moseley anyone?

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1 hour ago, Bruno2 said:

I wont feel good about anything until I hear some improvements made on the defensive side.  CJ Moseley anyone?

CJ Mosely would be a great signing. I hate to see KO go. If healthy he's one of the top guards in the league and a difference maker. His absence had a huge negative impact on the team last year.  Jon Feliciano has not looked good when called upon.  

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Posted (edited)

KO's dedication to his health/weight loss sound like they were contributing factors to the team deciding to move on, and I'd rather get a single round bump for our draft than the outright release they were considering. Still, I don't like the direction our OL is trending, and I'll be a staunchly opposed to the front office's support of Cable until the cows come home.

Our starting receivers are now the stuff of fantasy dreams five years ago, but I'm still torn on the AB trade.

Edit: All that being said, I recognize that this trade for AB, while not in line with the rebuilding process, might just give the fans that little bit of pep we might need. Landing big name veterans, either in trades or FA, can do wonders for fans. I for one am more excited to watch our offense take the field, which is definitely something that I needed with this team (even if it's not the smartest decision from a long term football perspective).

Edited by Moonshine

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1 minute ago, Silver & Black said:

Trent Brown to the Raiders

Love it!

Moving Miller to RT makes more sense. With the KO trade, early signs look like the Raiders will go edge rusher at 1.04, then OG, DB at 1.24 and 1.27. 

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Trent Brown has been a lazy underachiever his entire career, save for the backend of the season and playoffs last year. He's going from the league's best OL coach to arguably the worst. And the Raiders just signed him to a record-breaking deal. This is a contract you give to a perennial all-pro, not a half-year wonder. Pats are laughing their way to another 3rd round comp pick.

:smdh:

Call me a negative Nancy all you want. This is a highly questionable move IMO. Hope it works out, but on the surface I don't like it.  

The part that bothers most ... They just passed on Derwin James last year to draft a LT, who must now shift to RT. And they just effectively cut an actual perennial all-pro from the same OL.

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3 minutes ago, LawFitz said:

Trent Brown has been a lazy underachiever his entire career, save for the backend of the season and playoffs last year. He's going from the league's best OL coach to arguably the worst. And the Raiders just signed him to a record-breaking deal. This is a contract you give to a perennial all-pro, not a half-year wonder. Pats are laughing their way to another 3rd round comp pick.

:smdh:

Call me a negative Nancy all you want. This is a highly questionable move IMO. Hope it works out, but on the surface I don't like it.  

The part that bothers most ... They just passed on Derwin James last year to draft a LT, who must now shift to RT. And they just effectively cut an actual perennial all-pro from the same OL.

I hear ya, but they did need a LT, clearly Miller wasn't ready. From my knowledge there isn't much out there in FA and it looks like they want to go defense in the draft. I think they originally wanted Miller at RT but when Penn went down, they had no choice but to start him at LT. When a LT has a bad game theres nowhere to hide because we all see the QB lying on his back lol. Agreed, passing on James for him was highly questionable. Anyway, someone was going to pay Brown that kind of money, if he stays healthy and is an improvement then it can only be a good thing.

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Not confirmed, but reading a rumor that Trent's deal is effectively 2 yrs / $36 MM with no cap hit after year 2, making yrs 3-4 effectively team options. That makes me feel a bit better. If true, Mayock learned something from Big Reg.

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29 minutes ago, LawFitz said:

Trent Brown has been a lazy underachiever his entire career, save for the backend of the season and playoffs last year. He's going from the league's best OL coach to arguably the worst. And the Raiders just signed him to a record-breaking deal. This is a contract you give to a perennial all-pro, not a half-year wonder. Pats are laughing their way to another 3rd round comp pick.

:smdh:

Call me a negative Nancy all you want. This is a highly questionable move IMO. Hope it works out, but on the surface I don't like it.  

The part that bothers most ... They just passed on Derwin James last year to draft a LT, who must now shift to RT. And they just effectively cut an actual perennial all-pro from the same OL.

Brown's record of phoning it in and being unmotivated for the Niners is absolutely problematic, and we'll see if he can uphold the work ethic he gave BB now that he's a Grinder.

But he is a physical specimen that nets out as one of the best pass blockers in the NFL, and with such a dearth on dependable LTs, it's made the position overvalued (and needfully so) so someone was going to end up having to pay Brown.

In addition to the potential that this might actually be a cap friendlier deal, it also helps somewhat solve our line's aging and expense problem - we are free to shed Penn as we did Osemele for some more cap space, and save for finding a LG replacement for KO (not huge believer Feliciano is that guy), the front line - left to right - of Trent Brown, Rodney Hudson, Gabe Jackson, and Kolton Miller seems to have solid promise in making us much more competitive now.

We've solidly plugged up a few of our many, many needs (with many still outstanding) with the Browns (AB, Trent), which also helps us focus all this draft capital a little more sharply.

Speaking of which, how do you think our first 3 rounds should go now, and who are the players we should be targeting?

Who are the draft's consensus top guards? Cody Ford seems like a solid target for us at the back end of the first round -- what about Chris Lindstrom/Erik McCoy? Don't know much about the first round projected OTs to have a sense of how the shift to the interior would work better for some.

With our need of EDGE so keen, if we can't get Josh Allen at 4, do we actually pass up Quinnen Williams in favor of a more pure EDGE rusher like Montez Sweat or Clelin Ferrell?

We do need LB, FS/SS and couldn't hurt to add more CB support. 

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