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Hankmoody

Official 2019 Oakland (?) Raiders Thread

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For a 3rd and a 5th rounder I'm excited about Antonio Brown.  A true #1 WR for at least 2 years, maybe 3.  Was he a "cancer" in the locker room before this year? Seems like there was a lot going on in Pitt this year.  

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34 minutes ago, Moonshine said:

More rumors about cash flow issues, similar to the ones we've been seeing over the past few years:

https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1105146218651496456

Gurley seemed to have set the bar most recently with a $60M contract, $45M of which were in guarantees.

While I don't doubt Davis and the Raiders still need to be very careful in managing free cash flow, and may still be underfunded compared to other teams in that regard, that $45M is why it's impossible to sign Bell, and not any organizational-level FCF issues.

Any NFL team only has so much cash to play with.

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2 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Brown's record of phoning it in and being unmotivated for the Niners is absolutely problematic, and we'll see if he can uphold the work ethic he gave BB now that he's a Grinder.

But he is a physical specimen that nets out as one of the best pass blockers in the NFL, and with such a dearth on dependable LTs, it's made the position overvalued (and needfully so) so someone was going to end up having to pay Brown.

In addition to the potential that this might actually be a cap friendlier deal, it also helps somewhat solve our line's aging and expense problem - we are free to shed Penn as we did Osemele for some more cap space, and save for finding a LG replacement for KO (not huge believer Feliciano is that guy), the front line - left to right - of Trent Brown, Rodney Hudson, Gabe Jackson, and Kolton Miller seems to have solid promise in making us much more competitive now.

We've solidly plugged up a few of our many, many needs (with many still outstanding) with the Browns (AB, Trent), which also helps us focus all this draft capital a little more sharply.

Speaking of which, how do you think our first 3 rounds should go now, and who are the players we should be targeting?

Who are the draft's consensus top guards? Cody Ford seems like a solid target for us at the back end of the first round -- what about Chris Lindstrom/Erik McCoy? Don't know much about the first round projected OTs to have a sense of how the shift to the interior would work better for some.

With our need of EDGE so keen, if we can't get Josh Allen at 4, do we actually pass up Quinnen Williams in favor of a more pure EDGE rusher like Montez Sweat or Clelin Ferrell?

We do need LB, FS/SS and couldn't hurt to add more CB support. 

LT Brown / LG Jackson / C Hudson / RG Good or Parker / RT Miller

This might be how it all shakes out in the end.

If I were to draft a OL I would draft Dalton Risner at the back end of the 1st round. He played T in college but some teams think he would make a great G in the NFL.

Edited by krsone21
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Bell is a great RB (duh) but the Raiders cannot blow big money on RB after paying AB and Carr.   There will be good RBs available after the first day of the draft and even FA that will work.  

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On 3/10/2019 at 6:31 AM, Leroy Hoard said:

As someone mentioned in the Brown thread, you basically traded a 3, 5, and Cooper for Brown and a 1. Not bad.

Or two 3s, a 5 and Cooper for Brown, a 1 and Bryant. 😉

All in all, hard to put a bad spin on this trade. Makes the Steelers front office look about as dysfunctional as the Raiders...

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Another thing on Trent Brown. Just watched Shuan O'Hara breakdown film on him against Bosa in the playoffs. I gotta think the way he pushed around Bosa had a lot to do with this signing as well. 

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2 minutes ago, Bruno2 said:

Another thing on Trent Brown. Just watched Shuan O'Hara breakdown film on him against Bosa in the playoffs. I gotta think the way he pushed around Bosa had a lot to do with this signing as well. 

He was brought in to counter Dee Ford, Von Miller AND Bosa. 

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6 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

With our need of EDGE so keen, if we can't get Josh Allen at 4, do we actually pass up Quinnen Williams in favor of a more pure EDGE rusher like Montez Sweat or Clelin Ferrell?

We do need LB, FS/SS and couldn't hurt to add more CB support. 

No, we do not pass up Quinnen Williams if Allen is gone. I will burn this place down if that happens. 

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/3/8/18252958/nfl-draft-2019-quinnen-williams-scouting-report-defensive-tackle-alabama

 

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1 hour ago, SDJohnny said:

No, we do not pass up Quinnen Williams if Allen is gone. I will burn this place down if that happens. 

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/3/8/18252958/nfl-draft-2019-quinnen-williams-scouting-report-defensive-tackle-alabama

 

Completely agree.  If Murray goes 1 we are guaranteed Bosa, Allen or Quinnen and that is what we should be hoping and praying for.

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1 hour ago, ICON211 said:

Completely agree.  If Murray goes 1 we are guaranteed Bosa, Allen or Quinnen and that is what we should be hoping and praying for.

I like your thinking.  

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1 hour ago, ICON211 said:

Completely agree.  If Murray goes 1 we are guaranteed Bosa, Allen or Quinnen and that is what we should be hoping and praying for.

Agreed. 

Grab one of the Big 3 D prospects at 1.4. And then, to mix things up, go D and D again at 24 and 27. LB and CB preferred. Then go RB or WR at the top of the 2nd. 

We just signed Joyner (Rams) at safety. I have no clue if he’s great, good or over the hill. Anyone?

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2 hours ago, ICON211 said:

Completely agree.  If Murray goes 1 we are guaranteed Bosa, Allen or Quinnen and that is what we should be hoping and praying for.

What I'm hoping and praying for is that After Murray goes #1 a team panics and moves up ahead of the Raiders and drafts Haskins then that will leave the Raiders to choose between probably Allen and Williams.

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1 hour ago, joey said:

Agreed. 

Grab one of the Big 3 D prospects at 1.4. And then, to mix things up, go D and D again at 24 and 27. LB and CB preferred. Then go RB or WR at the top of the 2nd. 

We just signed Joyner (Rams) at safety. I have no clue if he’s great, good or over the hill. Anyone?

Young and very good. He has versatility. He can play FS and in the slot. I really like this signing and he is signing for cheaper then some of the other safety signings so far.  He is one of the better cover safeties in free agency IMO.

Edited by krsone21
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57 minutes ago, krsone21 said:

Young and very good. He has versatility. He can play FS and in the slot. I really like this signing and he is signing for cheaper then some of the other safety signings so far.  He is one of the better cover safeties in free agency IMO.

but wait. this is a Raiders' signing?!

I don't dare get optimistic, right? ;)

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9 hours ago, ICON211 said:

Completely agree.  If Murray goes 1 we are guaranteed Bosa, Allen or Quinnen and that is what we should be hoping and praying for.

Completely agree. Passing up on a guy like Bosa or Allen is like passing in Mack when he fell to us. 

The scenario I was outlining was if Bosa is gone (likely, he goes either 1 or 2) AND Allen are gone.

Quinnen was a top prospect coming into the draft and only helped his stock at the combine. He may simply be BPA regardless in this scenario, and we need all the help and talent we can get on D.

But because I don’t follow college as closely as I should, I don’t know how much Quinnen’s skill set at tackle could translate to give us the EDGE help we really need. 

So my question was in lieu of Bosa or Allen, is Quinnen’s ability at tackle, and his potential fungibility to help at EDGE, that much better than the consensus next ranked player at the specific EDGE position after Bosa and Allen?

It may be Quinnen is THE BPA after those guys, period. So we go that way regardless and look at seeing who on the squad now and later in the draft can play EDGE.

But we have a lot of tackles right now, and we need help in the pass rush to help fill the hole Mack left.

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7 hours ago, joey said:

We just signed Joyner (Rams) at safety. I have no clue if he’s great, good or over the hill. Anyone?

Can’t believe there wasn’t more chatter on this.

Joyner is a fantastic signing - I think he’s clearly better than anyone we have now, and is in his prime. He can play both strong and free, which is great as it may give us more flexibility in how we let Karl Joseph roam more to take advantage of his ability. 

Joyner didn’t really shine in the playoffs for the Rams and it’s arguable that his season prior was better than his last season.

But he’s a quality signing on acceptable terms that isn’t too ling term, and shores up an area of desperate need for us. Record-quick signing, too - read that it was a deal 9 mins after the tampering  prevention period ended.

We have ~25M of cap space left? With 10-14 allocated to rookies, our FO is killing it so far with these moves. So much different than the more conservative Reggie wait-and-see-and-ultimately-do-nothing attitude.

Excited to see if we make othe FA moves, but really excited to see how this momentum carries through to the draft. Maycock was brought in specifically for talent evaluation, but he seems to have definitely helped raise our FA game too.

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It keeps coming up that the Raiders don't have the cash to operate properly or sign players yet they keep signing guys.  Could it be that the Raiders just don't want to pay Leveon Bell what he will likely command?   I guess since this is the Raiders there will just always be negative press out there.

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4 minutes ago, ICON211 said:

It keeps coming up that the Raiders don't have the cash to operate properly or sign players yet they keep signing guys.  Could it be that the Raiders just don't want to pay Leveon Bell what he will likely command?   I guess since this is the Raiders there will just always be negative press out there.

I think the rumors simply stem from the fact that Davis, with a net worth of around $250M, doesn't have as deep personal pockets as some other NFL team owners, and the fact that they aren't generating revenue from the new stadium yet.

It certainly hasn't stopped them from securing talent in FA, and it's clear that Bell's contract would be huge for any team to absorb, and we chose to spend that money -- correctly, IMHO -- securing talent to plug up other areas of bigger need.

Let them talk, it certainly isn't an issue in the here and now.

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8 hours ago, joey said:

but wait. this is a Raiders' signing?!

I don't dare get optimistic, right? ;)

During the Rams season of Hard Knocks, wasn't this the guy throwing a temper tantrum one day at practice? He wasn't getting enough reps and walked off the practice field and almost quit on the team. Probably just TV show drama, but it wasn't a good look for him.

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3 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Completely agree. Passing up on a guy like Bosa or Allen is like passing in Mack when he fell to us. 

The scenario I was outlining was if Bosa is gone (likely, he goes either 1 or 2) AND Allen are gone.

Quinnen was a top prospect coming into the draft and only helped his stock at the combine. He may simply be BPA regardless in this scenario, and we need all the help and talent we can get on D. 

But because I don’t follow college as closely as I should, I don’t know how much Quinnen’s skill set at tackle could translate to give us the EDGE help we really need. 

So my question was in lieu of Bosa or Allen, is Quinnen’s ability at tackle, and his potential fungibility to help at EDGE, that much better than the consensus next ranked player at the specific EDGE position after Bosa and Allen?

It may be Quinnen is THE BPA after those guys, period. So we go that way regardless and look at seeing who on the squad now and later in the draft can play EDGE.

But we have a lot of tackles right now, and we need help in the pass rush to help fill the hole Mack left.

This is the only trepidation I have with Williams.  We drafted two DT last year and by all accounts they looked good.  Can we really leverage all of them?  For this reason alone I wouldn't be terribly upset if we traded down to a QB team and ended up with Ferrell or Sweat later on plus a couple more premium picks.

BUT - I will also never argue with taking the special player.  When you get a shot at an Aaron Donald you take him.

I would be so much simpler if someone took Williams ahead of us and left us Allen or even another team moved up for QB.

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We still need to see financials, but OBJ's deal makes our deal with Brown looks like that much more of a steal.  

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I'd rather we got the OBJ trade though given my choice.

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2 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

I'd rather we got the OBJ trade though given my choice.

I'd rather have AB myself.

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1 hour ago, krsone21 said:

I'd rather have AB myself.

Ya I'd much rather have AB for what we gave compared to what was needed to give for OBJ. Not that OBJ isn't worth it but we got the best value of the 2 deals for sure.

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9 hours ago, FreshiZ said:

Ya I'd much rather have AB for what we gave compared to what was needed to give for OBJ. Not that OBJ isn't worth it but we got the best value of the 2 deals for sure.

I agree AB is a better "current value" but OJB represents a significantly larger return at his age.  He's 5 years younger than AB.  I'd happily pay the extra premium to get AB's age 26, 27, 28, 29, and 30 seasons back.

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Tyrell Williams WR rumored to come to Oakland. Seeing a much upgraded WR corps is going to be rolled out this year. (Understatement)

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Wonder if the addition of AB and Williams will raise Cook's interest in re-signing with the team?

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I'm a big fan of Williams.  I really like his game.  The offense is shaping up very nicely and now we can focus on defense for the draft.  Hope and optimism.  Maybe my yoga wife is on to something.......

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Tyrell is no worldbeater, but he’s a speed threat and a separation specialist and upgrades our WR corps a LOT. It’s a fantastic signing.

Will be intereting to see terms, but this offseason has been dreamy. 

Keenly anticipating what the draft might bring, let alone see what else we may be cooking up in FA.

It’s just like the Raiders to take me on that emotional roller coaster from “Ugh this season could be another painful one” to “Can’t wait for this season to begin!”

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59 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Tyrell is no worldbeater, but he’s a speed threat and a separation specialist and upgrades our WR corps a LOT. It’s a fantastic signing.

Will be intereting to see terms, but this offseason has been dreamy. 

Keenly anticipating what the draft might bring, let alone see what else we may be cooking up in FA.

It’s just like the Raiders to take me on that emotional roller coaster from “Ugh this season could be another painful one” to “Can’t wait for this season to begin!”

He's a pretty big boy as well at 6'4".  Lots to be excited about.  And the best thing is, we have lots of draft stock for 2020 to boot.  I'm looking forward to life in Vegas as a Raiders fan!

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Adam Schefter‏Verified account @AdamSchefter

FollowingFollowing @AdamSchefter

Raiders giving former Chargers WR Tyrell Williams a four-year, $44 million deal with a max value of $47M that includes $22M guaranteed, per Source

 

Maybe Mort will shut up about the "Cash Poor" Raiders  now.  Also, love Williams speed/size combination. 

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1 hour ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

It’s just like the Raiders to take me on that emotional roller coaster from “Ugh this season could be another painful one” to “Can’t wait for this season to begin!”

Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in. 

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PFF's 2019 NFL Free Agency Deal Grader
(5 categories: Elite, Very Good, Above Average, Average and Below Average)

VERY GOOD

Raiders sign S Lamarcus Joyner to a four-year, $42M deal, $16.7M guaranteed
Joyner is coming off a franchise tag season after grading as one of the best safeties in the game in 2017 that was buoyed by an elite coverage grade of 91.2. He was unable to replicate those lofty grades but still performed at a good level in 2018 with a coverage grade of 70.9 and an overall 73.1 grade. He provides Oakland with a true deep safety with good range to allow Karl Joseph the freedom to roam the box. — @JohnKosko3

ABOVE AVERAGE

Raiders sign WR Tyrell Williams to a four-year, $44M deal, $22M guaranteed
Oakland’s revamp of their wide receiving corps continues with the addition of former Chargers wideout Tyrell Williams on a four-year deal to pair with Antonio Brown. Williams’ calling card has been the deep ball, seeing over 25% of his targets on throws of 20 yards or more downfield over the past three seasons, totaling 1,039 yards on 66 such targets (11th-most). It remains to be seen how Williams fits with quarterback Derek Carr should he, in fact, enter the season as the Raiders’ starting quarterback. Carr has been among the more conservative quarterbacks in the league — his 7.9 yard average depth of target is tied for the fifth shortest among quarterbacks with at least 500 dropbacks in the last three years. — @PFF_David

BELOW AVERAGE

Raiders sign OT Trent Brown to a four-year, $66M deal, $36.8M guaranteed
The Raiders are paying Trent Brown elite tackle money (which he has yet to be during his four-year career with New England and San Francisco), likely in large part due to his excellent pass protection during New England’s latest Super Bowl run. In three playoff games last season, he surrendered just four total pressures, none of them resulting in sacks or hits on Tom Brady. He is expected to play left tackle in Oakland, and in his first year starting at the position last year he gave up a total of 39 pressures on 744 pass-blocking snaps. — @PFF_Josh

Raiders sign DI Johnathan Hankins to a two-year, $8.5M deal, $5.4M guaranteed
Johnathan Hankins, the Raiders’ high-snap player on the defensive interior a year ago, returns to Oakland on a modest two-year deal that reflects his value as a run-first player. Last season was a bit of a down year for Hankins, but he’s earned run-defense grades above 80.0 in four of his six NFL seasons, including an 88.1 run-defense grade in 2017 that ranked 10th among qualifying interior defensive lineman. — @PFF_David

 

Edited by 32 Counter Pass
Correcting last category

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2 hours ago, kaso said:

Wonder if the addition of AB and Williams will raise Cook's interest in re-signing with the team?

I like the sound of that but I just read Cook is visiting the Saints. I love the idea of having a receiving corps of Brown, Williams and Cooks.

15 minutes ago, SDJohnny said:

Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in. 

+1000000000000000000

 

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$11 MM per for Ty Williams when Leveon went for $13 MM. Hmm. Not liking how that reads. How about spending that money on D?

Gruyock is paying the upside price for each of these big ticket free agents. That usually doesn't bode well. Hopefully they each have a yr 3 out like Trent. $21 MM next season for that dude, cash and cap. Whoa

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1 hour ago, LawFitz said:

$11 MM per for Ty Williams when Leveon went for $13 MM. Hmm. Not liking how that reads. How about spending that money on D?

Gruyock is paying the upside price for each of these big ticket free agents. That usually doesn't bode well. Hopefully they each have a yr 3 out like Trent. $21 MM next season for that dude, cash and cap. Whoa

I'm with you.   Seems like a decent overpayment for Williams.  

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1 minute ago, DocHolliday said:

I'm with you.   Seems like a decent overpayment for Williams.  

Maybe a bit, but I think he is the perfect type of WR to pair with Antonio Brown.  He can take the top off the D and create space for Antonio to work.

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Who is running the ball for us this year. Although not spectacular, seems like Ingram or even Coleman would have been better money spent than a WR and let one of our camp guys battle for that #3 spot. I guess we'll have a new rookie RB and maybe Warren is also ready to roll.

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4 minutes ago, FreshiZ said:

Who is running the ball for us this year. Although not spectacular, seems like Ingram or even Coleman would have been better money spent than a WR and let one of our camp guys battle for that #3 spot. I guess we'll have a new rookie RB and maybe Warren is also ready to roll.

Could Lynch be brought back? Spencer Ware is still out there, Jordan Howard is likely available for day 3 pick, and not a high one.

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4 hours ago, FreshiZ said:

Who is running the ball for us this year. Although not spectacular, seems like Ingram or even Coleman would have been better money spent than a WR and let one of our camp guys battle for that #3 spot. I guess we'll have a new rookie RB and maybe Warren is also ready to roll.

From what I saw of Warren last year, even accounting that he was not facing the #1 units, the guy looks every bit like the real deal. Looks like a punishing runner with solid versatility through and around the line, and by all accounts has workable hands.

We'll see, but I'm a big believer based on what I saw - and think he's our new Beast that will run through faces and could potentially carry the load as a 3 down back (though we have the luxury of Richard for COP/passing downs).

Ingram would have been a good addition at the price tag he commanded -- that was a pretty cheap low-downsides contract for a guy I am sure is hungry to prove his worth outside of Payton's shadow.

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5 hours ago, ICON211 said:

Maybe a bit, but I think he is the perfect type of WR to pair with Antonio Brown.  He can take the top off the D and create space for Antonio to work.

Agree -- wasn't cheap, but he seemed to have a lot of interest from around the league and I am glad we got him as a) he is undoubtedly a solid upgrade over anyone we had and b) perfectly compliments our corps:

AB for primary routes and drawing double coverage.

Williams to stretch the D with his speed and quickness and regain those slant separation plays we used to have with Crabs.

Jordy to play pure possession receiver in all the space opened up by the above two.

Throw a guy like Cook into the mix and there will be no excuse for Carr not to have a career year.

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1 minute ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

From what I saw of Warren last year, even accounting that he was not facing the #1 units, the guy looks every bit like the real deal. Looks like a punishing runner with solid versatility through and around the line, and by all accounts has workable hands.

We'll see, but I'm a big believer based on what I saw - and think he's our new Beast that will run through faces and could potentially carry the load as a 3 down back (though we have the luxury of Richard for COP/passing downs).

Ingram would have been a good addition at the price tag he commanded -- that was a pretty cheap low-downsides contract for a guy I am sure is hungry to prove his worth outside of Payton's shadow.

I also really liked what I saw from Warren and we could draft a RB or bring back Lynch.  I'd be fine with any of those scenarios.  I think Josh Jacobs is going to be really, really good and would love to draft him.

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Any chance Jordy gets moved to the slot? Seems like his savvy vet skills should match that pretty well.

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Yes the Raiders overpaid for Williams but I think they had to. They couldn't bring in a WR like Brown and let him get doubled every game. If you want to upset your new diva WR, that's the quickest way to do it. They had to bring in someone to force defenses to pay attention to or else we could have another Randy Moss situation. If they don't keep Brown happy, things will implode even before they get to Vegas. 

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12 hours ago, LawFitz said:

$11 MM per for Ty Williams when Leveon went for $13 MM. Hmm. Not liking how that reads. How about spending that money on D?

Gruyock is paying the upside price for each of these big ticket free agents. That usually doesn't bode well. Hopefully they each have a yr 3 out like Trent. $21 MM next season for that dude, cash and cap. Whoa

Not that I would rather have Tyrell than Bell, but I like the commitment to the passing game.  It's 2019 and I'm thrilled that this shows they know where their bread is buttered.  If Carr isn't the guy they are going to know it quickly.  I'd like to see them draft a TE in the late 1st too, Fant or the A&M kid should be there and could be studs.  Pass on Jared Cook at his money at this point.  If they brought him in instead of Tyrell fine but not after that, save the money for D.

Oh, and can we please please please get a LB up in this place?

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5 hours ago, ICON211 said:

I also really liked what I saw from Warren and we could draft a RB or bring back Lynch.  I'd be fine with any of those scenarios.  I think Josh Jacobs is going to be really, really good and would love to draft him.

A couple underrated RBs I wouldn't mind them looking at. Crowell and Ajayi. Both are relatively young and versatile. 

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1 minute ago, Hankmoody said:

Not that I would rather have Tyrell than Bell, but I like the commitment to the passing game.  It's 2019 and I'm thrilled that this shows they know where their bread is buttered.  If Carr isn't the guy they are going to know it quickly.  I'd like to see them draft a TE in the late 1st too, Fant or the A&M kid should be there and could be studs.  Pass on Jared Cook at his money at this point.  If they brought him in instead of Tyrell fine but not after that, save the money for D.

Oh, and can we please please please get a LB up in this place?

Agree, if they go defense, defense and oline in the 1st round and Fant is sitting there in round 2, take him!

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5 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Agree -- wasn't cheap, but he seemed to have a lot of interest from around the league and I am glad we got him as a) he is undoubtedly a solid upgrade over anyone we had and b) perfectly compliments our corps:

Contract Value in the Free Agency Market is very fluid and extremely subjective.    It isn't simply paying for the player and the value to the team.   That cost is inflated by other factors such as other teams bidding on him, the difference in other players currently available at the same position, age, years played, injury history,  the picks the team has in the up coming draft, the current players and their contracts at the same position, etc.   Hell even the continued increase of the salary cap plays a massive role making it very hard to compare contracts year over year.

All I know is that Williams is a clear upgrade at the WR2 spot for Carr and the Raiders.   Provides flexibility for the Raiders in what to do with Roberts.  I trust the organization now (couldn't do this during the last of the Al Davis years) that the contract won't limit or restrict the Raiders in acquiring more talents.  

IMO, the best part of the recent acquisitions, is the flexibility it gives Mayock and Gruden come draft time.   They have addressed major needs in the roster, and still have their top 4 selections in the draft.   They are in a position to take the best player available or move around the draft as they see fit.   Love that.  

 

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