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Hankmoody

Official 2019 Oakland (?) Raiders Thread

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9 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

Not that I would rather have Tyrell than Bell, but I like the commitment to the passing game.  It's 2019 and I'm thrilled that this shows they know where their bread is buttered.  If Carr isn't the guy they are going to know it quickly.  I'd like to see them draft a TE in the late 1st too, Fant or the A&M kid should be there and could be studs.  Pass on Jared Cook at his money at this point.  If they brought him in instead of Tyrell fine but not after that, save the money for D.

Oh, and can we please please please get a LB up in this place?

Wonder if we don't start hearing about Zach Brown being tied to the org.   His last time around the free agency block he was tied to the Raiders, but ended up with the 'skins...

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On 3/11/2019 at 9:00 PM, krsone21 said:

What I'm hoping and praying for is that After Murray goes #1 a team panics and moves up ahead of the Raiders and drafts Haskins then that will leave the Raiders to choose between probably Allen and Williams.

do you trade out if haskins is there at 1.04?

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40 minutes ago, DA RAIDERS said:

do you trade out if haskins is there at 1.04?

If a team wants Haskins real bad and gives them a great offer and they can still draft a top edge rusher I'd definitely consider it. 

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2 hours ago, DA RAIDERS said:

do you trade out if haskins is there at 1.04?

I personally would IF the Raiders get a really good offer for that pick. If they get a crappy offer like they did last year for Rosen I pass and take one of the top defenders.

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Please, Gruyock, sign the Crow

"The 26-year-old back has started 51 games in five seasons with the Browns and Jets. He has 3803 career rushing yards and 27 touchdowns. He has averaged 4.3 yards per carry in his career including a career high 4.8 yards per carry last season."

 

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3 hours ago, DA RAIDERS said:

do you trade out if haskins is there at 1.04?

Depends on a ton of factors.

Is an edge guy (Bosa or Allen) there? 
Yes - Hold and pick them unless it's a massive overpay.  Massive.  Like multiple 1sts massive.
No - Now depends on the trade down.  Unless it's to 6 we probably lose Quinnen Williams (and might even to 6) so it would need to be a minimum of a 2nd.  But yeah, if we get a couple of 2nd rounders to move to 13 for example we could take Clelin Ferrel or Montez Sweat or one of the bajillion other tier 2 EDGE guys and then snag some extra talent with those 2nds.

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Would love to bring in Crowell and Zach Brown both.  Crowell is solid talent and even if Brown is a temporary patch he's still far better than what we have now. 

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Not big news, but Raiders news none the less.... AJ McCarron has reportedly been released.  

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Adam Schefter‏Verified account @AdamSchefter 2m2 minutes ago

And now the Raiders have released WR Jordy Nelson, per source.

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Jordy Nelson

$1,800,000 Dead Money

$3,568,750 Cap Savings

 

Ian Rapoport‏Verified account @RapSheet 2m2 minutes ago

This is true. The #Raiders paid WR Jordy Nelson $3M… then released him.

 

Not sure I get this. Have his skills diminished that much? Tried not to watch too many games last year  so I can't say.

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7 minutes ago, SDJohnny said:

Jordy Nelson

$1,800,000 Dead Money

$3,568,750 Cap Savings

Ian Rapoport‏Verified account @RapSheet 2m2 minutes ago

This is true. The #Raiders paid WR Jordy Nelson $3M… then released him.

Not sure I get this. Have his skills diminished that much? Tried not to watch too many games last year  so I can't say.

He had lost a step, but still led Oakland receivers with 739 yards and three touchdowns so not sure I get this either.

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48 minutes ago, efactor said:

Odd that they cut Nelson AFTER they paid the roster bonus

It was probably a "thank you" for participating in our dumpster fire season at the end of your career.

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1 hour ago, efactor said:

Odd that they cut Nelson AFTER they paid the roster bonus

gruden, gonna gruden.

 

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Trying to make sense of releasing Jordy, a proven vet - even whose lost a step - with solid hands over a guy like Roberts who has yet to really stand out in anything after a few years on this club.

Maybe they just like the youth and the fact that Carr has more continuance and familiarity with Roberts than anyone else who catches the ball on our squad (including Cook).

The other is they think Jordy won’t command what we were going to have to pay him in the open market, and we restructure with him at a lower contract amount.

Cut and resign is not that uncommon in the NFL, but feels bad for Jordy, man.

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Maybe Jordy requested the release of there addition of Brown and Williams?  And the Raiders granted his wish?

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On 3/11/2019 at 12:42 PM, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

In addition to the potential that this might actually be a cap friendlier deal, it also helps somewhat solve our line's aging and expense problem - we are free to shed Penn as we did Osemele for some more cap space, and save for finding a LG replacement for KO (not huge believer Feliciano is that guy), the front line - left to right - of Trent Brown, Rodney Hudson, Gabe Jackson, and Kolton Miller seems to have solid promise in making us much more competitive now.

Well STC, you don't have to worry about Feliciano next season... he has moved on to the Buffalo Bills. 

Edited by kaso
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2 hours ago, kaso said:

Well STC, you don't have to worry about Feliciano next season... he has moved on to the Buffalo Bills. 

Good.  Agree with STC on him, he was not good.

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J.J. Nelson is your new Oakland Raider.  

At some point I figure they will start addressing the D-side of the ball. 

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2 minutes ago, kaso said:

J.J. Nelson is your new Oakland Raider.  

At some point I figure they will start addressing the D-side of the ball. 

This draft is loaded with defensive talent.

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4 minutes ago, Garrett said:

This draft is loaded with defensive talent.

It's also loaded with WRs. If they overpaid for Nelson, ugh. I'd MUCH rather have Andy Isabella, who can actually catch the ball. What a concept.

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12 hours ago, LawFitz said:

It's also loaded with WRs. If they overpaid for Nelson, ugh. I'd MUCH rather have Andy Isabella, who can actually catch the ball. What a concept.

I'd rather use that pick on a defensive player. Buy a offense and draft a defense is the philosophy this offseason.

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I'm a big believer in Carr. With the signing of JJ, we have tons of speed available there with both Williams and Nelson being able to take the top off the defense.

What I wonder, having seen Carr over the last few years, is whether he's truly able to maximize that kind of play. The last two seasons it seems he's struggled with both putting too much air under balls as well as with some deep downfield accuracy. 

With Jordy, we'd have had arguably the best route runner in the NFL in AB, a guy who stretches Ds deep in Williams, with Jordy taking up the role of a pure possession receiver. Suits his veteran savvy and great hands, and the fact that he doesn't have the speed he once had. Also aligns to the check-down style we've seen Carr be comfortable with, and better able to leverage Carr's intelligent misdirection play in a complicated Gruden offense.

At least what we retain in Nelson are the jet sweep option plays we had with Patterson, which seem a staple of today's NFL offenses.

On another note, farewell Penn -- it was the right move, shedding an oft-injured aging veteran and looking to allocate money better well-spent in youth and depth on Oline.

But the guy was a true Raider, and I'll miss him as a stalwart on this team. Wish him well and hope he lands somewhere that can use him.

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With more cap room, wonder if we make a play for defenders in areas of need like Ziggy at DT or Houston at OLB. They'd be expensive and short term given age, but we need some infusion of talent there.

On to the draft:

If either Bosa or Allen is there for us in the draft (Allen WAY more likely, though still a stretch), we run and don't look back.

It becomes more interesting if both these guys are gone. Quinnen Williams looks to be the BPA on D, but have no idea how his skill set can help with exterior pass rushing. We desperately need EDGE, with only Key showing promise, and the rest being less-than-JAGs. 

If that's the position we're in, I won't be sad with Williams given talent level, but given the need on the ends, would almost us trade back and be able to look for more mid-round 1sts to land a guy like Sweat (a true EDGE) and potentially a guy like Cody Ford to shore up our RT position.

ETA to add: OK, maybe not Sweat himself, given new concerns that arose about his heart condition -- certainly didn't seem to cause him problems in college and he was cleared for combine, so maybe not as much of a concern as it seemed to be for Mo Hurst's scouting evaluation -- and we know how that turned out for Mo and the Raiders -- highly favorable as he's a beast and love having him on the team.

Either way? We need EDGE/DE pass rushing. Allen, Sweat, Rashan Gary, Ferrell, maybe Burns/Polite/Zach Allen later on -- these are the guys we should be looking to load up on in the draft.

Edited by Stompin' Tom Connors

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6 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

I'm a big believer in Carr. With the signing of JJ, we have tons of speed available there with both Williams and Nelson being able to take the top off the defense.

What I wonder, having seen Carr over the last few years, is whether he's truly able to maximize that kind of play. The last two seasons it seems he's struggled with both putting too much air under balls as well as with some deep downfield accuracy. 

With Jordy, we'd have had arguably the best route runner in the NFL in AB, a guy who stretches Ds deep in Williams, with Jordy taking up the role of a pure possession receiver. Suits his veteran savvy and great hands, and the fact that he doesn't have the speed he once had. Also aligns to the check-down style we've seen Carr be comfortable with, and better able to leverage Carr's intelligent misdirection play in a complicated Gruden offense.

 

Carr's deep ball hasn't looked good.  We are going to know exactly how good Carr is after a few games if the Oline holds up.   The Oline is a concern.   

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FBGs New Blog has 2 stories that indicate the Raiders have interest in Free Agent LBs Vontaze Burfict (Bengals), Manti Te'o (Saints), Aaron Lynch (Bears) and Brandon Marshall (Broncos).

I really hope Burfict stays away.  Can you imagine the field day the ref's and the NFL would have in penalizing him if he wore the Silver and Black? My god. 

For some reason I thought Burfict was older then he is.  All 4 are in the 28-29 age Range.  But Burfict has an extra season under his belt compared to the other 3.   Looks like Lynch spent most of his time as a DE w/ the 49ers.  

Edited by kaso

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The only way Burfict gets on this roster is if AB gives the blessing to do so. And I doubt that happens- 

no chance Morrow gets a shot.?. He looked okay in spot duty...

 

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23 minutes ago, SleepyIDP said:

The only way Burfict gets on this roster is if AB gives the blessing to do so. And I doubt that happens- 

no chance Morrow gets a shot.?. He looked okay in spot duty...

 

Oooh, I forgot about the Brown/Burfict back story... good call!

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22 minutes ago, SleepyIDP said:

The only way Burfict gets on this roster is if AB gives the blessing to do so. And I doubt that happens- 

no chance Morrow gets a shot.?. He looked okay in spot duty...

 

That's actually a good point. Those two would have to bury the hatchet, which isn't out of the realm of possibility, but highly doubtful if that ever happens.

As for Morrow, I've always liked him. He seems like hes a lot more athletic than any other LBs that have been on the roster the past couple years. Problem is... That isn't saying much. For all I know, any other team he would be a special teams or practice squad guy.

 

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On 3/17/2019 at 12:03 PM, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

With more cap room, wonder if we make a play for defenders in areas of need like Ziggy at DT or Houston at OLB. They'd be expensive and short term given age, but we need some infusion of talent there.

On to the draft:

If either Bosa or Allen is there for us in the draft (Allen WAY more likely, though still a stretch), we run and don't look back.

It becomes more interesting if both these guys are gone. Quinnen Williams looks to be the BPA on D, but have no idea how his skill set can help with exterior pass rushing. We desperately need EDGE, with only Key showing promise, and the rest being less-than-JAGs. 

If that's the position we're in, I won't be sad with Williams given talent level, but given the need on the ends, would almost us trade back and be able to look for more mid-round 1sts to land a guy like Sweat (a true EDGE) and potentially a guy like Cody Ford to shore up our RT position.

ETA to add: OK, maybe not Sweat himself, given new concerns that arose about his heart condition -- certainly didn't seem to cause him problems in college and he was cleared for combine, so maybe not as much of a concern as it seemed to be for Mo Hurst's scouting evaluation -- and we know how that turned out for Mo and the Raiders -- highly favorable as he's a beast and love having him on the team.

Either way? We need EDGE/DE pass rushing. Allen, Sweat, Rashan Gary, Ferrell, maybe Burns/Polite/Zach Allen later on -- these are the guys we should be looking to load up on in the draft.

My buddy scouts for another NFL team.  He says Allen doesn't fit our scheme.  Williams and Bosa are more likely picks if they drop to us.  He also thinks that with the Bucs/Giants at 5/6,  the Bengals have interest in our pick at 4.  

Edited by One

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1 minute ago, One said:

FWIW,  my buddy scouts for another NFL team.  He says Allen doesn't fit our scheme.  Williams and Bosa are more likely picks if they drop to us.  He also thinks the Bengals have big interest to trade into our draft slot.  

Had to look up the pick for the Bengals.  They pick 11th overall.  I'd imagine it would be quite a trade to get from 11 to 4.

Using the Classic Jimmy Johnson Valuation chart:
Pick 4 is valued at 1800
Pick 11 is valued at 1250, The bengals 2nd round pick is 42nd overall and is valued at 480.  

Maybe a swap of firsts, a 2020 First and a 2019 3rd?  Just spit balling here. 

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I can see Gru/Mayock trading down is Bosa and Williams are gone. Such a defense heavy draft there will be plenty of talent mid to late 1st. The Devin LBs, Clelin Ferrell, Greedy Williams,  lots of guys to choose from this year.

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Then again... Looks like the Oline is being rebuilt and they're gonna need a TE. I know they cant fix everything in one draft. But they have a lot of flexibility to go in a variety ways this year. We all want defense, but who would be surprised if they went after OG, WR and TE? I know I won't be,  defense seems to be an afterthought in Oakland lately. 

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1 hour ago, One said:

My buddy scouts for another NFL team.  He says Allen doesn't fit our scheme.  Williams and Bosa are more likely picks if they drop to us.  He also thinks that with the Bucs/Giants at 5/6,  the Bengals have interest in our pick at 4.  

I don't buy that at all.  He's plenty big to play DE and some of the scouting reports I have read indicate he could be a guy that reduces inside in sub.  Unless he thinks that Key's presence dictates they look for a sturdier strong-side type DE I just don't see how a dynamic EDGE guy doesn't fit.

If Bosa or Williams is there it's likely because Allen's gone and it would be a dream situation to see Bosa at 4. 

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2 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

I don't buy that at all.  He's plenty big to play DE and some of the scouting reports I have read indicate he could be a guy that reduces inside in sub.  Unless he thinks that Key's presence dictates they look for a sturdier strong-side type DE I just don't see how a dynamic EDGE guy doesn't fit.

If Bosa or Williams is there it's likely because Allen's gone and it would be a dream situation to see Bosa at 4. 

Allen is a stud,  but viewed more as an OLB in 3-4 that drops into coverage, than a DE who rushes the passer. 

Perfect for the Jets new scheme.  (Who pick right before us at #3). 

Edited by One

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8 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

If Bosa or Williams is there it's likely because Allen's gone and it would be a dream situation to see Bosa at 4. 

If Bosa is there, Gruden himself runs to the podium with the pick. Anything to begin to get the stench of the Mack trade off him. 😉

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4 hours ago, One said:

Allen is a stud,  but viewed more as an OLB in 3-4 that drops into coverage, than a DE who rushes the passer. 

Perfect for the Jets new scheme.  (Who pick right before us at #3). 

Allen will be rushing the passer A LOT in the NFL.  He had 17 sacks last year.  He may be viewed as a better 3-4 fit, but if Bosa and Quinnen are gone I'm taking him at 4 if I'm the Raiders.

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1 hour ago, bombjack said:

Interesting, Burfict signed

Ugh.

Don't get me wrong, we need any body we can get at LB. And he is a known commodity with Guenther.

But this is different from when we signed, say, Romanowski, who was the kind of player you hated unless he played for you. Burfict is the kind of guy you hate no matter what.

Guess we decided that we're going to allocate the rest of our cap space to signing rookie contracts and paying off Burfict's inevitable fines.

Wonder how AB feels about it.

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39 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Ugh.

Don't get me wrong, we need any body we can get at LB. And he is a known commodity with Guenther.

But this is different from when we signed, say, Romanowski, who was the kind of player you hated unless he played for you. Burfict is the kind of guy you hate no matter what.

Guess we decided that we're going to allocate the rest of our cap space to signing rookie contracts and paying off Burfict's inevitable fines.

Wonder how AB feels about it.

AB likes it and so do I.

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9 hours ago, 32 Counter Pass said:

Apparentl the team is trying to renew their image from the 70s. Burfect is the biggezt cheap shot artist in the league. I putthe O/U on 4 games missed due to suspensions. 

Bigger than Suh? There are plenty of cheap shot artists, some just draw more media attention than others :shrug: 

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gruden is just doing what he does.  i think he's nuts. he fixates on individuals, and nothing else seems to matter.  kind of like Al Davis, in the later years. if, and it's a big if, williams and nelson pay off, i'll eat crow.  but i think we over paid for both.  the D needs help.  badly. especially at LB and DE, and we keep signing skill positions.

i won't bat an eye, if gruden drafts a tackle, rb and a qb in the 1st.  "split Y banana, man, split Y banana!!!"

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6 hours ago, DA RAIDERS said:

gruden is just doing what he does.  i think he's nuts. he fixates on individuals, and nothing else seems to matter.  kind of like Al Davis, in the later years. if, and it's a big if, williams and nelson pay off, i'll eat crow.  but i think we over paid for both.  the D needs help.  badly. especially at LB and DE, and we keep signing skill positions.

i won't bat an eye, if gruden drafts a tackle, rb and a qb in the 1st.  "split Y banana, man, split Y banana!!!"

This also is my biggest fear. Pre-draft rumors are starting to swirl around Gruden and Drew Lock. And the fact that they let McCarron go reinforces the fact that they do need to bring in a QB, but if he wastes a 1st round pick on Lock I'm gonna lose it. 

My only hope is that Mayock can be a voice of reason in the building and be capable of talking Gruden off these ledges.  Conventional wisdom would be to go defense with all 3 firsts. I could see them going defense, defense, TE or OG. I'd live with those scenarios, but anything else would be foolish in my mind. But this is the Raiders so anything crazy and unpredictable can and will probably happen. 

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On 3/19/2019 at 7:08 PM, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Ugh.

Burfict is the kind of guy you hate no matter what.

Yeah, this is a bummer. As I get older I not only dislike prima donnas like Brown but clearly dirty players like Burfict as well.

Give me players I can root for. They don't have to be model citizens but, please, no thugs.

And Brown with his "black and silver" tweet. Cringe-worthy.

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On 3/19/2019 at 1:07 PM, One said:

Allen is a stud,  but viewed more as an OLB in 3-4 that drops into coverage, than a DE who rushes the passer. 

Perfect for the Jets new scheme.  (Who pick right before us at #3). 

The more I think about it the more I absolutely believe that either Bosa or Allen being there for us is a pipe dream.

Both the 49ers and Jets biggest needs are EDGE. There is a possiblilty a desperate team tries to trade up, but who would that be? To me, it would be the Dolphins trading up but I envision the other trade partner to be the Cards, not the 9ers or Jets who both likely covet the shot at a potential elite player in Bosa and a blue chip in Allen.

I don’t buy ARI trading Rosen and drafting Murray. Sure, it could still happen, but I think this has been the most effective smoke screen leading into this year’s draft so far.

Without a shot at Allen or Bosa, I think the move is to trade down to get in the right positions to land one of Ferrell/Sweat/Polite/Burns to fill gaps at EDGE as well as Hockenson, who I believe will be gone before our picks in the 20s come around. We can still land Bush at 24 to bolster LB corps.

Do others think the Jets or 9ers would trade back as well? If so, with who? And who would that team take?

Realistically, I think both stand pat. Meaning no Bosa or Allen for us.

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On 3/20/2019 at 7:08 AM, CGRdrJoe said:

Bigger than Suh? There are plenty of cheap shot artists, some just draw more media attention than others :shrug: 

Easily bigger than Suh. You will get to witness his cheap shots in all it’s glory this coming season. 

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3 hours ago, 32 Counter Pass said:

Easily bigger than Suh. You will get to witness his cheap shots in all it’s glory this coming season. 

I can't wait. I for one love the Burfict signing. 

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6 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

The more I think about it the more I absolutely believe that either Bosa or Allen being there for us is a pipe dream.

Both the 49ers and Jets biggest needs are EDGE. There is a possiblilty a desperate team tries to trade up, but who would that be? To me, it would be the Dolphins trading up but I envision the other trade partner to be the Cards, not the 9ers or Jets who both likely covet the shot at a potential elite player in Bosa and a blue chip in Allen.

I don’t buy ARI trading Rosen and drafting Murray. Sure, it could still happen, but I think this has been the most effective smoke screen leading into this year’s draft so far.

Without a shot at Allen or Bosa, I think the move is to trade down to get in the right positions to land one of Ferrell/Sweat/Polite/Burns to fill gaps at EDGE as well as Hockenson, who I believe will be gone before our picks in the 20s come around. We can still land Bush at 24 to bolster LB corps.

Do others think the Jets or 9ers would trade back as well? If so, with who? And who would that team take?

Realistically, I think both stand pat. Meaning no Bosa or Allen for us.

I think the Cards are absolutely taking Murray at 1.  Kingsbury was an out of the box hire and if you make him your coach I think you go all the way with him and his system and that means taking Murray.  Why hire Kingsbury then go halfway with him?  The only reason for them to fake interest in Murray would be to trade the pick to someone that does want him and in that case he would go 1 anyway.  

As far as the Jets and Niners I think either could trade down with a team that loves ones of the three defenders or Haskins.  As far as Haskins teams that could be in play for a QB and could move up to 2 or 3 are the Giants, Bengals, Dolphins and Redskins.  Or maybe the Niners or Jets have Quinnen as the best player on their board and he goes at 2 or 3 to one of them.

 However, you very well could be right and Bosa and Allen could be gone.  In that scenario I would happily take Quinnen Williams at 4.  Unless the Raiders were completely and absolutely blown away by a trade offer I'd rather stay at 4 and draft Quinnen who might be the best player in the draft and could be a monster.  Give me the potential superstar rather than moving back for a lesser player and a second round pick or whatever.  We have three first rounders this year and two next year.  More picks are always great, but having all those ones means we can stay at 4 and go for the high ceiling superstar type player. 

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