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Hankmoody

Official 2019 Oakland (?) Raiders Thread

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2 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Please not Jacobs. Let’s get Abrams, Greedy, even OL Taylor.

I love this pick.  Do you not like Jacobs or just not here?

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Just now, Chadstroma said:

Gruden's new Charlie Garner.

Damn it. Charles Davis just said that as I hit send. LOL

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4 minutes ago, ICON211 said:

I love this pick.  Do you not like Jacobs or just not here?

Not here. Sweat or another D, even O line are bigger needs.

Jacobs is solid and a fantastic story, but never saw him as a mid-round first.

ETA: maybe they wanted him at 27 but didn’t think he’d make it past IND?

Edited by Stompin' Tom Connors

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3 minutes ago, LawFitz said:

I like Jacobs. Reminds me much more of Mark Ingram than Charlie Garner, though.

I agree.   He doesn't have that quick twitch that Charlie had.      I still want Greedy Williams at 27, but have a sneaking suspicion that Irv Smith might be the pick with Cook gone.    

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Is Jacobs seen as a pure starter in a compliment back in an RBBC?

I mean, that’s the way the league is right now, but has he been a guy that was ever seen as a 3 down starter in the NFL?

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10 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

ETA: maybe they wanted him at 27 but didn’t think he’d make it past IND?

I know, quoting myself.

But I think IND saw Jacobs gone and traded down as a result.

Damn wanted Sweat to fall.

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2 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Is Jacobs seen as a pure starter in a compliment back in an RBBC?

I mean, that’s the way the league is right now, but has he been a guy that was ever seen as a 3 down starter in the NFL?

I think he's an every down starter.  By most accounts he is a very good receiver and excellent blocker.

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So, Abram at safety. Area of need. Good box safety to help solidify coverage and complement Joseph’s style and nastiness and learn from Joyner. With Joyner not sure we needed a safety, but more D is what we needed overall.

Really thought we could have done much better with 3 first rounders.

Could have done much, much worse I guess.

All 3 guys look like quality himan beings, offsetting the Burfict factor I guess.

Edited by Stompin' Tom Connors

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Just now, 32 Counter Pass said:

Kirwin and Brandt said that Abram is very capable of playing CB. At minimum it hints at his versatility. 

Saw someone refer to his ability to play in the slot too

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What a disastrous draft.  Mayock trying to outsmart everyone like many thought he would. Definitely a chance he hits on these guys and looks like a genius, but could have had all these guys much later.  Greedy in round 2 can salvage this draft though.

Oof.

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4 hours ago, Chadstroma said:

Gruden's new Charlie Garner.

no.  all this trying to recreate gruden's  previous team is a f'ing pipe dream.  that version of the NFL is dead.  every player in today's draft could have been taken later.  

 

how does allen,  sweat, jacobs, sound?  put greedy in there for sweat or jacobs if you like.  if they get greedy at 2.04, i'll backtrack a bit.  but i don't like this day 1 draft.

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6 hours ago, SDJohnny said:

Year after year, decade after decade this team tries to show how smart they are by going against the grain. 90% they end up with egg on their face. We talk about situational awareness for players but we can talk about it with GMs  too. Mayock/Gruden could have moved back 10 spots and still got this guy.  Very disappointing.  

You don't know that for sure. What if 8 picks later he was drafted then they lose out on their guy.

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5 hours ago, Chadstroma said:

Over the years, I have changed from listening to all the people, so called 'experts' that say this guy and that guy ya ya ya ya ...... and then collectively there is an idea of 'what draft grade' a player has. 

Let me ask you. If you were a GM and you loved Tom Brady coming out of college and knew he had a "late round grade" and took him in 1st overall.... would that be a reach? No. 

But ok, sure, we never know a pick is good or not until years later. So there is the whole draft strategy. We, as peons who only can read what writers write and watch what the TV shows say and listen to what the radio and podcast guys say. I think you can get cute and try to play to the 'common knowledge' of where someone 'ought' to be drafted (look back... how often is that all wrong?) or you can shut that out... do your homework like watching tape, reviewing combine/school pro day/private workouts, interviews of the players, coaches, teammates, etc, background checks, tests, and on and on and on.... and build your draft board. Then the old NFL cliche of 'trust your draft board' and pick that way. If you really love the guy. Draft him even if you think he might be available later. If you are ok on rolling the dice or like a few player and can find a trade partner then make a deal and select him closer to the 'common knowledge' but you never know when another team has him high on their draft board and will take him. 

I love this pick. On another forum a couple months back I said I would be happy with Ferrell at pick 4. I personally think he fits Guenther's scheme better then Allen does.

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I felt like many of you guys about our draft.  At first.  Then I woke up this morning and watched the interview with Mayock.  The Raiders clearly have a plan.  We may not like or agree with it, but they do have one.  And that is drafting guys, and telling the guys in the locker room that we want football players.  Guys that love the game.  Play hard and play physical.  The interview was pretty cool and my respect for Mayock went up a tick after watching it.  If you haven't seen it, watch it, you may feel a little better about our first round if you do.  I certainly do.  I will admit, however, in the moment, I was quite upset we passed on Allen/Oliver.  Oliver looks like he fit the mold of guys Mayock was talking about.  

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Man, tough crowd! Funny how this time of year we all become draft experts (not trying to be insulting, myself included).

Here's what happened... The Giants and Skins front offices' were in cahoots. They were talking, clearly Williams knew Jones was Gettleman's guy. There was no need for the Skins to panic and try to jump the Giants to get Haskins. That's why Gruden or Mayock leaked the whole "Haskins moving up their draft board " thing. They knew Ferrell would be there at 15 and would much rather have taken him there. But the Skins weren't taking the bait. Why? Because GMs talk. Look back at the top 15 picks, it seemed very scripted. Everyone had a good idea what players teams had their eyes on. Now the debate between Ferrell and Allen is a whole different topic. I think in the long run (and hopefully short run) Ferrell will be the better overall NFL player than Allen will become. 

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38 minutes ago, Silver & Black said:

I felt like many of you guys about our draft.  At first.  Then I woke up this morning and watched the interview with Mayock.  The Raiders clearly have a plan.  We may not like or agree with it, but they do have one.  And that is drafting guys, and telling the guys in the locker room that we want football players.  Guys that love the game.  Play hard and play physical.  The interview was pretty cool and my respect for Mayock went up a tick after watching it.  If you haven't seen it, watch it, you may feel a little better about our first round if you do.  I certainly do.  I will admit, however, in the moment, I was quite upset we passed on Allen/Oliver.  Oliver looks like he fit the mold of guys Mayock was talking about.  

It still feels like a bunch of reaches.   Drafting a good but not great RB in the first round shows how far behind the times the Raiders are operating. 

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34 minutes ago, DocHolliday said:

It still feels like a bunch of reaches.   Drafting a good but not great RB in the first round shows how far behind the times the Raiders are operating. 

I think you are selling Jacobs short.  Three down back with star potential.

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I'd give it a B so far. Ferrell is supposed to be a locker room good with leadership skills. Not ideal at 4, but not terrible.

Jacob's fills a big need. I think an RB in rnd 2-3 would have worked as well. But I dont hate it.

Abram is a great pick. 

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Mayock was a scrappy DB who wasn't a great athlete but played for the Steelers, Argonats of the CFL, and the Giants.  

His first pick as an NFL GM is a guy who did not have a great athletic profile.  

Is he evaluating from a football guy perspective like the Steelers USED to do a few years ago until that caught up to them?

Hopefully Mayock nailed the top pick but if it doesn't work out then he might want to lean more on his analytic dept going forward.

Edited by Bracie Smathers

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1 hour ago, Max Power said:

I'd give it a B so far. Ferrell is supposed to be a locker room good with leadership skills. Not ideal at 4, but not terrible.

Jacob's fills a big need. I think an RB in rnd 2-3 would have worked as well. But I dont hate it.

Abram is a great pick. 

After a good night's sleep, I would give it a B as well.    Ferrell is a solid player that sometimes isn't as high-profile with Christian Wilkins and Dexter Lawrence as line mates.   Josh Allen is more explosive, but Ferrell is a high character, high-motor guy that will give you every thing he's got.   

I'll feel better with Greedy Williams at Round 2.   Please Chucky, don't take Drew Lock.   

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1 hour ago, Max Power said:

I'd give it a B so far. Ferrell is supposed to be a locker room good with leadership skills. Not ideal at 4, but not terrible.

Jacob's fills a big need. I think an RB in rnd 2-3 would have worked as well. But I dont hate it.

Abram is a great pick. 

 

9 minutes ago, dcgangstas said:

After a good night's sleep, I would give it a B as well.    Ferrell is a solid player that sometimes isn't as high-profile with Christian Wilkins and Dexter Lawrence as line mates.   Josh Allen is more explosive, but Ferrell is a high character, high-motor guy that will give you every thing he's got.   

I'll feel better with Greedy Williams at Round 2.   Please Chucky, don't take Drew Lock.   

Agreeing with both these takes after sleeping on it.

Ferrell wasn't consensus #2 EDGE, but it doesn't matter what the consensus is, it's what our coaching staff think work best in their system and the guy they clearly like. Out of all the the EDGEs not named Bosa, Ferrell may actually be the safest 4-3 EDGE in the draft -- polished all around game and good in both run defense and the pass rush. Has that long and strong body type (his measurables are nearly exactly Clowney's except for about an inch of height) that would fit Guenther's scheme well, and we got a blue chip player at a position of desperate need. Anything other than EDGE would have been disastrous here.

I really didn't think we needed to grab Jacobs in the first round as opposed to another D -- would have loved another impact D player like Sweat there. I agree with @DocHolliday that he's good but not great, and doesn't scream bell cow/every down back to me given lack of that kind of production in college (though not really his fault, it was a crowded backfield), his skill set (less elusive in open field), and durability concerns (has been hampered by nagging injuries before).

But Gru/BCM may have put a higher need on the backfield than I, and may not need him to be an every-down back with Crow and Richard (maybe Warren if he continues to develop) -- RBBC is the flavor of the NFL these days and Jacobs seemed to perform the best at Alabama when running in tandem with Harris/Harris. Talented depth at RB is not a bad thing.

Our staff may also have been scared off by Montez's character (didn't like getting yelled at). If they put a premium on getting a back, there was no other point they could have snagged Jacobs -- IND would absolutely have snagged him instead of trading back. Was either Sweat or Jacobs (neither would have made it to 27), and they went with Jacobs. He's a solid one-cut rusher with soft hands who can start ASAP, giving us good depth now and into the future.

Like the Abram pick, high quality human with a nasty edge that will help bridge coverage bewtween Joseph's over-aggressiveness and Joyner's ranging coverage skills.

On to round 2 and later. On my wish list for our upcoming pick:

CB: It's still a prominent need, so we 100% need to look here in round 2, IMHO. I will be pissed if we don't get one of Greedy Williams/Byron Murphy/Rock Ya Sin to pair with Conley and Joseph/Joyner/Abram in the backfield. High hopes this shapes up to be a nasty, crushing-hit, lock down secondary that could flash like the Soul Patrol of yore.

G: Cody Ford -- if we can't get the CBs above, Ford becomes intriguing here as he can play both tackle and guard. I don't know enough about other guys that may be had late, but Erik McCoy is another high confidence target, with others like Elgton Jenkins, Nate Davis and Dru Samia looking like solid interior guys.

LB: Mack Wilson is the next best in the available group, and we could look for Blake Cashman or Germaine Pratt later.

TE: Irv Smith, Jace Sternberger, Kaden Smith

EDGE: Never hurts to stack. Polite? 

 

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Character was the resounding theme on day 1. That and need. I can get on board with the first concept wholly. The second one, eh, I guess it makes some sense for a rebuilding team with a HUGE hole at ED. Devin White was also a big need (considering the contracts/ages of Burfect, Marshall), but the difference is he seems to be an arrogant leader, compared to Ferrell who seems to be a A++ character from a leadership and humility perspective. 

Problem I have with rd 1 is I'm a BPA guy. That seemed to be Oliver, White and Allen ahead of Ferrell at 4. Problem is Oliver is extremely redundant, given the Raiders' already have two emerging stud 3-techs (I do wonder if Oliver could've been utilized effectively at DE -  I think he could have); White is a ILB - non-premium position and seems like a 'me' guy; and Allen was a poor scheme fit - 3-4 OLB, not a 4-3 DE - though like Oliver, I do wonder if he could've been converted effectively with good coaching.

The other problem I have is why not trade down to 7-10 range and take Ferrell there? But that's way easier for me to say from the couch. Got to find a trading partner to do that. Seems like Bubbalo was hot for Oliver though, so perhaps they could've scored a 3rd from them - though we'd all be burying Mayock today had he made that trade, if we're honest (even if it had netted him Ferrell at 9).

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Also, as for taking a RB instead of another defender in rd 1 ... One of the best ways to improve a defense is to have a ball-control running game. I'm a fan of the Crow and I also like Jacobs a lot. Having those two, plus Richard feels like a HUGE upgrade at RB, compared to last year. I'm on board with that strategy.

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20 minutes ago, LawFitz said:

Character was the resounding theme on day 1. That and need. I can get on board with the first concept wholly. The second one, eh, I guess it makes some sense for a rebuilding team with a HUGE hole at ED. Devin White was also a big need (considering the contracts/ages of Burfect, Marshall), but the difference is he seems to be an arrogant leader, compared to Ferrell who seems to be a A++ character from a leadership and humility perspective. 

Problem I have with rd 1 is I'm a BPA guy. That seemed to be Oliver, White and Allen ahead of Ferrell at 4. Problem is Oliver is extremely redundant, given the Raiders' already have two emerging stud 3-techs (I do wonder if Oliver could've been utilized effectively at DE -  I think he could have); White is a ILB - non-premium position and seems like a 'me' guy; and Allen was a poor scheme fit - 3-4 OLB, not a 4-3 DE - though like Oliver, I do wonder if he could've been converted effectively with good coaching.

The other problem I have is why not trade down to 7-10 range and take Ferrell there? But that's way easier for me to say from the couch. Got to find a trading partner to do that. Seems like Bubbalo was hot for Oliver though, so perhaps they could've scored a 3rd from them - though we'd all be burying Mayock today had he made that trade, if we're honest (even if it had netted him Ferrell at 9).

Great thoughts. Guess the way I am getting comfortable about it is some of the things you specifically call out.

Yes, we passed on Allen and Oliver, but they might not have been ideal in terms of scheme or depth need. White was the best LB and we need a good inside guy but it would have been a waste given our line needs (particularly at Edge).

I'd love to have confirmation that they tried to trade down -- they definitely took their full time for that pick, but it's easily believable that the Raiders couldn't find the right trade partner that would get them value in return at the slot where they thought the could absolutely secure Ferrell. Jets were pretty vocal about being open for business at 3, took their entire allotted time, and ended up picking there -- wonder if they ran into the same issue.

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Agree with everyone looking for a corner and picking three tonight they are guaranteed to be able to get Greedy, Murphy or Ya-Sin and may have their choice.

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10 hours ago, DA RAIDERS said:

no.  all this trying to recreate gruden's  previous team is a f'ing pipe dream.  that version of the NFL is dead.  every player in today's draft could have been taken later.  

 

how does allen,  sweat, jacobs, sound?  put greedy in there for sweat or jacobs if you like.  if they get greedy at 2.04, i'll backtrack a bit.  but i don't like this day 1 draft.

I am not in love with Greedy. Very good cover but absolute poo for tackling. He is on the Deon Sanders level of tackling but without the HOF level of coverage skills. I think Greedy at 2.04 is a reach. There, I said it. 

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10 hours ago, krsone21 said:

I love this pick. On another forum a couple months back I said I would be happy with Ferrell at pick 4. I personally think he fits Guenther's scheme better then Allen does.

The big thing about Ferrell is who he is. Everyone RAVES about his character, football IQ and leadership. Those are things that aren't measured at the combine but have more impact on a player's ability to impact the game than their shuttle time. 

Mayock made it clear that these things are what made him their guy. 

 

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The 'we could have got him later' thing is not true. You don't know that. Could we have gambled and traded back and tried that? Well.... first, you need to have someone willing to trade with you. Second, it is a gamble. You want this guy. All the talking heads say mid round or whatever.... and then what happens? Every year guys fall below what is expected, players are taken higher than expected. Then you miss out on him and you moved back and none of the best pass rushers are available.... you all would flame them even more. 

Easy to be critical from the comfort of your couch.  

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they signed burfict.   let's not put them with mother teresa quite yet.

yesterday's picks have grown on me, but we'll see what happens with them.  the one that bothers me the most is jacobs.  and it will bother me even more, if they go offense with the next pick.

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54 minutes ago, ICON211 said:

Agree with everyone looking for a corner and picking three tonight they are guaranteed to be able to get Greedy, Murphy or Ya-Sin and may have their choice.

I think this is why they went with Abram. Several good corners with similar grades left. I'd like to see Ya-Sin or Murphy or trade down. Prepping myself mentally for Andy Isabella.

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36 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

I am not in love with Greedy. Very good cover but absolute poo for tackling. He is on the Deon Sanders level of tackling but without the HOF level of coverage skills. I think Greedy at 2.04 is a reach. There, I said it. 

fair enough.  i just don't want an offensive player with this next pick.

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On 3/12/2019 at 10:35 AM, Hankmoody said:

This is the only trepidation I have with Williams.  We drafted two DT last year and by all accounts they looked good.  Can we really leverage all of them?  For this reason alone I wouldn't be terribly upset if we traded down to a QB team and ended up with Ferrell or Sweat later on plus a couple more premium picks.

BUT - I will also never argue with taking the special player.  When you get a shot at an Aaron Donald you take him.

I would be so much simpler if someone took Williams ahead of us and left us Allen or even another team moved up for QB.

Well we didn't trade down, but I'm not upset about Ferrell.  The talent in there and while people will pretend to know we could get him later and be critical that we didn't, no one knows anything for sure.  If we're right no one is gonna care 4 year from now that we didn't add an extra 3rd, but I can tell you that if we trade down to 8 and someone snags Ferrell with our pick and he becomes all world they are gonna want Gruden's head on a pike.  If you love the guy, get him, and if you're right the price is irrelevant.

I like the Jacobs pick and I'm not big on the safety, but mostly because I don't know much about him and didn't feel like safety was one of our bigger needs.  But again, if he's right he's right and no one will care.

I'm in Nashville, was on Broadway last night for a while, what a scene.  Rain threatened and we came home to stay dry while watching.  Getting ready to head back down there for some food and be there for most of the evening.

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2 hours ago, Chadstroma said:

I am not in love with Greedy. Very good cover but absolute poo for tackling. He is on the Deon Sanders level of tackling but without the HOF level of coverage skills. I think Greedy at 2.04 is a reach. There, I said it. 

Great insight. How do you feel about Rock Ya Sin and Murphy? Byron Murphy is interesting as I remember a lot of hype about him many moons ago with him being selected in the first round, but in recent rankings seems many think he's a different (and worse) prospect than Greedy.

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20 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

This f’n team is literally killing me.

That just seemed a stupid reach.

 

20 hours ago, ILUVBEER99 said:

😂

dumb and dumber strike.  Now they can complete their moronic draft taking Jacobs in the 1st.

 

20 hours ago, LawFitz said:

Why do I watch the draft every year?

 

Some pretty good info here

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Per Twitter  Raiders get 38th pick and 109 (Fourth Round) for 35th, 140, and 235. 

Edited by SDJohnny
Correction

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