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How Much Of Team's Success Is Coach Responsible For? - Bill Belichick Edition

How much of New England's success is Bill Belichick responsible for?  

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42 minutes ago, NE_REVIVAL said:

 If you believe Brady and or Montana going to Cincy wouldn't have won I wouldn't quibble, situation matters. 

Well Cinncy was actually a better run team during Montana's time but I get your point. Montana was also great but was of course helped by Walsh and the surrounding talent.

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Since 2000, NE has allowed an average of 301.1 points per season. The league average in that time was 349.5 points per season. That's 14% below the league average and works out to 3 ppg. That includes the 2000 and 2008 seasons without Brady.

I know people will say that playing in the AFC East is a key reason for that and that the Pats have had some really strong defensive units. Both of those may have contributed to the annual reduction in scoring, but since the 2007 season, the only really solid defense they're had was the 2016 squad (at least based on points allowed).

Just curious if that falls on BB or if Brady can take credit for the defense as well. Yes, I am aware that NE being ahead most of the time impacts the game plan that opponents had to follow . . . but overall the NE defense has produced without having a ton of star players (at least in the past decade or so).

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On 1/1/2019 at 2:36 PM, Dr. Octopus said:

No it’s not overlooked, it’s constantly brought up. And it’s not really true if you look at their record v the AFC East and their record against everyone else.

I heard this mentioned on the radio earlier today.  The problem I have is this:  When was the last time you could say another AFC-E team was a serious contender?  I recognize that they all had their heydays, but when was the last time you went into a season saying the Pats had better watch out?

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IMO, this win belongs to the coaches.  The offense schemed their way to enough points.  The defensive schemes were astounding!  BB = MVP.  Team defense next.  Offensive coaches next.  Edelman did his job.  Brady gets credit about here on the list.

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12 minutes ago, daveR said:

IMO, this win belongs to the coaches.  The offense schemed their way to enough points.  The defensive schemes were astounding!  BB = MVP.  Team defense next.  Offensive coaches next.  Edelman did his job.  Brady gets credit about here on the list.

So what actually gets defined as "winning a SB?" Do any of the 18 games before the SB count? NE likely would not have even been in the SB without Brady.

The one thing even I have not discussed is Brady's leadership ability and ability to get his teammates to believe that they can win when they many times are less skilled than their opponents. Colin Cowherd had a funny bit about the game. He said Tom Brady just won the Super Bowl throwing to one guy. A 5'9" slot receiver who was a quarterback in college who looks like Santa Claus.

Brady really didn't have a ton to work with in terms of receiving talent this year. It was mostly Edelman, White out of the backfield, and Gronk at 60%.

Even though Brady didn't have a great game, he still led another 4th quarter game winning drive in the Super Bowl. As Edelman said at his press conference, it's better to win an ugly game than to win a pretty one.

So I agree that IN THE GAME ITSELF, Brady didn't do much and did enough to win, Brady had a huge impact in GETTING to the Super Bowl.

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26 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

So what actually gets defined as "winning a SB?" Do any of the 18 games before the SB count? NE likely would not have even been in the SB without Brady.

The one thing even I have not discussed is Brady's leadership ability and ability to get his teammates to believe that they can win when they many times are less skilled than their opponents. Colin Cowherd had a funny bit about the game. He said Tom Brady just won the Super Bowl throwing to one guy. A 5'9" slot receiver who was a quarterback in college who looks like Santa Claus.

Brady really didn't have a ton to work with in terms of receiving talent this year. It was mostly Edelman, White out of the backfield, and Gronk at 60%.

Even though Brady didn't have a great game, he still led another 4th quarter game winning drive in the Super Bowl. As Edelman said at his press conference, it's better to win an ugly game than to win a pretty one.

So I agree that IN THE GAME ITSELF, Brady didn't do much and did enough to win, Brady had a huge impact in GETTING to the Super Bowl.

While I agree with that last statement, I would submit that the Patriots do not get to the Super Bowl, much less win it, with any other head coach.  All I heard all year was how they didn't have a lot of talent on defense, yet they finished top 10 in scoring defense and then held the top 2 offenses in the NFL scoreless in the first halves of the AFCCG and Super Bowl.  And let's not forgot that top 5 rushing attack, aided by that offensive line which also gives Brady tons of time to throw on pass plays where he doesn't get rid of it in 2 seconds or less.  Brady's play fell off a little this year, yet they still won the Super Bowl thanks to Belichick doing arguably his best coaching job since 2001 (which I know is a bold statement). 

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2 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

While I agree with that last statement, I would submit that the Patriots do not get to the Super Bowl, much less win it, with any other head coach.  All I heard all year was how they didn't have a lot of talent on defense, yet they finished top 10 in scoring defense and then held the top 2 offenses in the NFL scoreless in the first halves of the AFCCG and Super Bowl.  And let's not forgot that top 5 rushing attack, aided by that offensive line which also gives Brady tons of time to throw on pass plays where he doesn't get rid of it in 2 seconds or less.  Brady's play fell off a little this year, yet they still won the Super Bowl thanks to Belichick doing arguably his best coaching job since 2001 (which I know is a bold statement). 

I have always taken the BB over Brady side of the argument, so you are mostly preaching to the choir. I believe the range I gave was 2/3 to 3/4 of the credit should go to Bill depending on the season. I was mostly referring to the post where someone put Brady pretty far down the food chain in importance in winning the SB.

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16 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

I have always taken the BB over Brady side of the argument, so you are mostly preaching to the choir. I believe the range I gave was 2/3 to 3/4 of the credit should go to Bill depending on the season. I was mostly referring to the post where someone put Brady pretty far down the food chain in importance in winning the SB.

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23 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

Even though Brady didn't have a great game, he still led another 4th quarter game winning drive in the Super Bowl. As Edelman said at his press conference, it's better to win an ugly game than to win a pretty one.

 

I would disagree here to some point.  If given the choice I would rather win pretty than win ugly but I will take either because both ways get me the win.

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9 minutes ago, Gally said:

I would disagree here to some point.  If given the choice I would rather win pretty than win ugly but I will take either because both ways get me the win.

Yeah, I messed up the quote. It's supposed to be would rather win an ugly one than lose a pretty one.

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Brand and BB are just a great combo. There have been games where Brady had led the team to victory and other where BB coaching has done the same.

Basically the same defense that gave up 41 points and 538 yards to Philly totally shut down the Rams. Brady threw for a Super Bowl record in yards last year without any INTs and lost. Had the defense done anything they win another one.

This year was the opposite, not many yards for Brady but defense is stellar.

Listening to room explain why Brady is so good made me realize how valuable he is.  How he audibles away from the blitz and runs a sweep the opposite way for 8 yards. That is the difference in NFL QBs.  Football IQ.

Matt Stafford has all the physical tools but just does not have a feel for the game like Brady.

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