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KCitons

USA DUI Deaths (and how they relate to other things)

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Other posters don't want to discuss DUI deaths in the shooting thread (or any other thread for that matter). Therefore, I will use this thread to raise awareness about the loss of lives from alcohol related accidents. If you would like to make comparisons to guns, lawn darts, or anything else, feel free to do so. (I will be) 

 

Fifty people killed in California in DUI crashes over New Years weekend.  As bad as that sounds, it wasn't the worst weekend for DUI deaths:

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The New Year’s Eve holiday enforcement period was not the deadliest for California, though. The deadliest in 2018 was during the Thanksgiving holiday enforcement period, when 59 people died in DUI-involved crashes, according to CHP.

 

Edited by KCitons

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I assume your point is that anyone who kills someone else through negligence should go to jail and not be able to engage in the activity in the future?  And that you approve of appropriate government regulation of the dangerous activity to minimize such incidents?

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The charges for killing someone while under the influence are pretty severe.  Obviously not as severe as shooting someone, but drunk people don’t generally kill their victims intentionally.

What’s your point?  Prohibition?

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Just now, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

I assume your point is that anyone who kills someone else through negligence should go to jail and not be able to engage in the activity in the future?  And that you approve of appropriate government regulation of the dangerous activity to minimize such incidents?

My point is to raise awareness. Did you know that 50 people died in California over the New Years weekend? 

 

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1 minute ago, jonessed said:

The charges for killing someone while under the influence are pretty severe.  Obviously not as severe as shooting someone, but drunk people don’t generally kill their victims intentionally.

What’s your point?  Prohibition?

 

Just now, KCitons said:

My point is to raise awareness. Did you know that 50 people died in California over the New Years weekend? 

 

What is the point of the gun thread?

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1 minute ago, KCitons said:

 

What is the point of the gun thread?

Banning/regulating guns I assume.  I don’t go in there much.

Alcohol an driving are pretty heavily regulated.  What else are you proposing?

Edited by jonessed
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1 minute ago, jonessed said:

Banning/regulating guns I assume.  I don’t go in there much.

Me either. 

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It's almost as if they are two completely different and separate topics.  Not sure this thread will get much action at all since the vast majority of people all agree on the same thing when it comes to drunk driving.

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2 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

It's almost as if they are two completely different and separate topics.  Not sure this thread will get much action at all since the vast majority of people all agree on the same thing when it comes to drunk driving.

Pretty much.  

Maybe if we have a poison thread? 

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There is a state trooper in my golf league and we have talked about this topic.   Any death with alcohol or drugs involved  regardless of who is at fault is listed as a DUI fatality.

Say you have 5-6 beers and a sober person ran a red light and killed you..it would be a DUI related death.

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11 minutes ago, KCitons said:

My point is to raise awareness. Did you know that 50 people died in California over the New Years weekend? 

 

I didn't know that. That's sad. Hopefully autonomous driving or other safety technology in cars (or maybe less driving altogether) will slow this toll.

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It seems the changes being made are having an effect on drunk driving deaths.  It's great that we can make regulations that actually make a difference and we can all agree on them.  Here are some important facts.

Since 1982, drunk driving fatalities on our nation’s roadways have decreased 48%, while total traffic fatalities have declined nearly 18%.  Among persons under 21, drunk driving fatalities have decreased 80%.

https://www.responsibility.org/get-the-facts/research/statistics/drunk-driving-fatalities/

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1 minute ago, Da Guru said:

There is a state trooper in my golf league and we have talked about this topic.   Any death with alcohol or drugs involved  regardless of who is at fault is listed as a DUI fatality.

Say you have 5-6 beers and a sober person ran a red light and killed you..it would be a DUI related death.

I always thought that skewed the statistics.  Not a fan of that stat.

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4 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

It seems the changes being made are having an effect on drunk driving deaths.  It's great that we can make regulations that actually make a difference and we can all agree on them.  Here are some important facts.

Since 1982, drunk driving fatalities on our nation’s roadways have decreased 48%, while total traffic fatalities have declined nearly 18%.  Among persons under 21, drunk driving fatalities have decreased 80%.

https://www.responsibility.org/get-the-facts/research/statistics/drunk-driving-fatalities/

Not sure if it's in the article or not, but I'm 90% certain that per capita miles driven per year has also increased since 1980, so the death rate per capita per mile driven has likely decreased even further.

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5 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I always thought that skewed the statistics.  Not a fan of that stat.

I agree..but then he said "You should not have been on the road after drinking"

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1 minute ago, Da Guru said:

I agree..but then he said "You should not have been on the road after drinking"

That is true but still doesn't make the stat very accurate.  Are they counting any BAC or just the people that are over .08?  If you are over the limit then I can see it counting but otherwise it's BS.  Still, if it's not your fault then it's not your fault.

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25 minutes ago, jonessed said:

The charges for killing someone while under the influence are pretty severe.  Obviously not as severe as shooting someone, but drunk people don’t generally kill their victims intentionally.

What’s your point?  Prohibition?

Probably to draw attention to himself directly and to guns in a sideways manner.   I did notice there were no suggestions from him on how to combat this problem he and SC are so focused on yet.  

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3 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Probably to draw attention to himself directly and to guns in a sideways manner.   I did notice there were no suggestions from him on how to combat this problem he and SC are so focused on yet.  

Regulate alcohol more than it currently is.

What measures do we have in place to prevent alcohol related deaths? 

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27 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

It's almost as if they are two completely different and separate topics.  Not sure this thread will get much action at all since the vast majority of people all agree on the same thing when it comes to drunk driving.

What is that?

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Just now, KCitons said:

What is that?

That it's bad and they want less of it.  That having laws and regulations on drinking and driving is a good thing.

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5 minutes ago, KCitons said:

Regulate alcohol more than it currently is.

What measures do we have in place to prevent alcohol related deaths? 

Measures, as in statutory?

I think that laws holding businesses accountable that overserve their patrons and knowingly allow them to operate a vehicle is one set of measures.

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1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

That it's bad and they want less of it.  That having laws and regulations on drinking and driving is a good thing.

Are the laws strict enough? Is there more that we could do to prevent this from happening? Fifty people died in California alone in one long weekend. Is that a number that we should be okay with?

Based on the posters here, the laws are too lenient.

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1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

That is true but still doesn't make the stat very accurate.  Are they counting any BAC or just the people that are over .08?  If you are over the limit then I can see it counting but otherwise it's BS.  Still, if it's not your fault then it's not your fault.

I think the argument would also be that very few accidents are 100% the fault of one person and that there is still an obligation to "drive defensively." 

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2 minutes ago, Franknbeans said:

I agree that there should be more gun regulations

:goodposting:

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3 minutes ago, KCitons said:

Are the laws strict enough? Is there more that we could do to prevent this from happening? Fifty people died in California alone in one long weekend. Is that a number that we should be okay with?

Based on the posters here, the laws are too lenient.

There's always more that can be done and that's why there is always more that people are trying to do.  That is not a number anyone should be okay with.  From what I read it looks like that was an increase of 10 over last year but it also said the length of the weekend had a lot to do with the increase.

Are there really two, large differing sides on drunk driving?  Is there a liberal vs conservative debate about it?  Is there really an argument?

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4 minutes ago, KCitons said:

Are the laws strict enough? Is there more that we could do to prevent this from happening? Fifty people died in California alone in one long weekend. Is that a number that we should be okay with?

I don’t know the correlation between drunk drivers and alcoholism, but has tougher sentencing resulted in fewer addicts / drug busts? Might there be another, more effective deterrent besides incarceration?

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4 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

I think the argument would also be that very few accidents are 100% the fault of one person and that there is still an obligation to "drive defensively." 

I've considered that as well and while that can be true I find it's too hard to determine that in some accidents.  I prefer that the person at fault remains the person at fault for statistic purposes.  If the person not at fault was in deed drunk then he of course still gets arrested and fined under DUI laws.

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1 minute ago, BobbyLayne said:

I don’t know the correlation between drunk drivers and alcoholism, but has tougher sentencing resulted in fewer addicts / drug busts? Might there be another, more effective deterrent besides incarceration?

Like rehab?

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1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I've considered that as well and while that can be true I find it's too hard to determine that in some accidents.  I prefer that the person at fault remains the person at fault for statistic purposes.  If the person not at fault was in deed drunk then he of course still gets arrested and fined under DUI laws.

This actually hurts your argument i think.

And this isnt for determining fault, he was talking about if it was a dui related fatality. I think it is difficult to argue that there are a lot of accidents where there the guy hit had 6 beers and alcohol didnt somehow affect the outcome in a fatal accident. It could be that due to the alcohol he bled too much. Could be that he didnt have his seatbelt on and he normally wears it, but you know beer. Maybe he didnt turn his lights on or use a blinker. 

When you know one person was significantly impaired i think the odds of them dying in a wreck change drastically. The accidents where the outcome was inevitable either way are the exception not the rule so they wouldnt move the needle much. 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Like rehab?

Maybe?

I work with a guy that just got his 3rd DUI.  No jail time yet (I think this time he gets the ankle bracelet?), and thankfully hasn't taken out another person while doing this.  However, he just bragged about going out on NY's eve and drinking all night, so obviously alcoholism is related.  Not sure how this is going to end, but I am guessing it's not going to be in a happy way.  

This is WI, btw.  

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2 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

This actually hurts your argument i think.

And this isnt for determining fault, he was talking about if it was a dui related fatality. I think it is difficult to argue that there are a lot of accidents where there the guy hit had 6 beers and alcohol didnt somehow affect the outcome in a fatal accident. It could be that due to the alcohol he bled too much. Could be that he didnt have his seatbelt on and he normally wears it, but you know beer. Maybe he didnt turn his lights on or use a blinker. 

When you know one person was significantly impaired i think the odds of them dying in a wreck change drastically. The accidents where the outcome was inevitable either way are the exception not the rule so they wouldnt move the needle much. 

 

 

Good point.

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2 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Maybe?

I work with a guy that just got his 3rd DUI.  No jail time yet (I think this time he gets the ankle bracelet?), and thankfully hasn't taken out another person while doing this.  However, he just bragged about going out on NY's eve and drinking all night, so obviously alcoholism is related.  Not sure how this is going to end, but I am guessing it's not going to be in a happy way.  

This is WI, btw.  

No jail time yet?  That's odd.  I served jail time for my DUI and it was my only one.

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Anyone made a gun analogy yet?

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7 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Maybe?

I work with a guy that just got his 3rd DUI.  No jail time yet (I think this time he gets the ankle bracelet?), and thankfully hasn't taken out another person while doing this.  However, he just bragged about going out on NY's eve and drinking all night, so obviously alcoholism is related.  Not sure how this is going to end, but I am guessing it's not going to be in a happy way.  

This is WI, btw.  

This guy needs professional help with his addiction.

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6 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Maybe?

I work with a guy that just got his 3rd DUI.  No jail time yet (I think this time he gets the ankle bracelet?), and thankfully hasn't taken out another person while doing this.  However, he just bragged about going out on NY's eve and drinking all night, so obviously alcoholism is related.  Not sure how this is going to end, but I am guessing it's not going to be in a happy way.  

This is WI, btw.  

 

2 minutes ago, joffer said:

Anyone made a gun analogy yet?

Let's make  one now.

If I used a gun to commit a crime, would you want me to have access to a gun in the future?

If I received a DUI, would you want me to have access to alcohol in the future? 

 

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Being in the groups I am in, I am fully aware of the issues with drunk driving and how prevalent they are across the country.  If I am being honest, I am shocked the number in Cali deaths wasn't significantly higher.  That said, I am all for stricter penalties....bring them on.  Put breathalyzers in all cars for all I care :shrug: 

Oh, and my standard PSA for any thread like this....laws aren't created to prevent an action.  They can't do that.  They are created with a hope that the person is aware of the penalty and factor that into their decision making.  Searching for a law that "prevents" anything is a fool's folly.  

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2 minutes ago, KCitons said:

 

Let's make  one now.

If I used a gun to commit a crime, would you want me to have access to a gun in the future?

If I received a DUI, would you want me to have access to alcohol in the future? 

 

Not the same thing.  That's why no one else has tried comparing them, except for you of course. 

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7 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Being in the groups I am in, I am fully aware of the issues with drunk driving and how prevalent they are across the country.  If I am being honest, I am shocked the number in Cali deaths wasn't significantly higher.  That said, I am all for stricter penalties....bring them on.  Put breathalyzers in all cars for all I care :shrug: 

Oh, and my standard PSA for any thread like this....laws aren't created to prevent an action.  They can't do that.  They are created with a hope that the person is aware of the penalty and factor that into their decision making.  Searching for a law that "prevents" anything is a fool's folly.  

Please post this exact thing in the gun thread. 

Thanks,

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7 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Not the same thing.  That's why no one else has tried comparing them, except for you of course. 

That's because you know it won't work if you apply it to guns. It doesn't fit the agenda, so you don't want to accept it.

Stats show how deadly guns are in this country. Stats also show how deadly DUI deaths are. In order to save lives, we want to prevent people from having access to an item that could lead to unnecessary deaths. (that can be alcohol, or guns)

You know you wouldn't want someone that has committed a gun crime to have access to a firearm. There are already laws in place that address that. However, I can have 3 DUI's and still purchase alcohol. Why is that?

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2 minutes ago, KCitons said:

That's because you know it won't work if you apply it to guns. It doesn't fit the agenda, so you don't want to accept it.

Stats show how deadly guns are in this country. Stats also show how deadly DUI deaths are. In order to save lives, we want to prevent people from having access to an item that could lead to unnecessary deaths. (that can be alcohol, or guns)

You know you wouldn't want someone that has committed a gun crime to have access to a firearm. There are already laws in place that address that. However, I can have 3 DUI's and still purchase alcohol. Why is that?

Stop comparing two things that are not comparable.  Why would you start another thread just to say the same stupid crap?  Might as well lock this thread if that's all you're going to do.

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17 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

No jail time yet?  That's odd.  I served jail time for my DUI and it was my only one.

Just looked it up, and maybe he has a little for this last one?

1st is  couple hundred bucks fine and 6-9months w/o license.  No jail time

2nd is up to 1.1K fine and 5days to 6months jail time.   Said on the site judge could do community service instead?   12-18months w/o license

3rd says up to 2K fine and 45 days to 1yr jail time.   Said judge must order 14 days jail time at least even if they use probation/treatment.  

 

Maybe he has to or has already done the 14days?  Last time I talked to him I thought he said that he has the ankle bracelet soon, and they are doing an eval on his house so there can't be booze on the property.  Not sure how long that is, but I thought he also lost his license for a couple years.  

Definitely not severe enough when it gets to the 3rd, and not helping him at all if he is still going out and boozing on a regular basis.  

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2 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Stop comparing two things that are not comparable.  Why would you start another thread just to say the same stupid crap?  Might as well lock this thread if that's all you're going to do.

I guess you don't want to have an honest conversation. 

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Just now, KarmaPolice said:

Just looked it up, and maybe he has a little for this last one?

1st is  couple hundred bucks fine and 6-9months w/o license.  No jail time

2nd is up to 1.1K fine and 5days to 6months jail time.   Said on the site judge could do community service instead?   12-18months w/o license

3rd says up to 2K fine and 45 days to 1yr jail time.   Said judge must order 14 days jail time at least even if they use probation/treatment.  

 

Maybe he has to or has already done the 14days?  Last time I talked to him I thought he said that he has the ankle bracelet soon, and they are doing an eval on his house so there can't be booze on the property.  Not sure how long that is, but I thought he also lost his license for a couple years.  

Definitely not severe enough when it gets to the 3rd, and not helping him at all if he is still going out and boozing on a regular basis.  

Interesting. 

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2 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Just looked it up, and maybe he has a little for this last one?

1st is  couple hundred bucks fine and 6-9months w/o license.  No jail time

2nd is up to 1.1K fine and 5days to 6months jail time.   Said on the site judge could do community service instead?   12-18months w/o license

3rd says up to 2K fine and 45 days to 1yr jail time.   Said judge must order 14 days jail time at least even if they use probation/treatment.  

 

Maybe he has to or has already done the 14days?  Last time I talked to him I thought he said that he has the ankle bracelet soon, and they are doing an eval on his house so there can't be booze on the property.  Not sure how long that is, but I thought he also lost his license for a couple years.  

Definitely not severe enough when it gets to the 3rd, and not helping him at all if he is still going out and boozing on a regular basis.  

That's pretty weak.  I had my DUI 14 years ago.  The fine was $500 and jail time was 48 hours.  I was taken to jail that night and spent 9 hours there before being released.  Once all the legal stuff was done I had to serve the rest of my 48 hours, minus the 9 I spent the first night.  I was given the option of doing house arrest or staying at a place where I could serve my time and do my counseling classes at the same time.  I did the house arrest and it was a piece of cake.

I was still in college at the time so it was a hassle as I needed a way to get to class, work and home.  Getting a permit was a pain.  Using a breathalyzer was a pain.  Going to classes was a pain.  Not only was it all a huge pain but all that crap added up to be pretty expensive.  The fine may have only been $500 but after all the other cost it added up to around $5,000.  I also lost my license for 6 months.  That whole experience was enough for me to never drive drunk again.

I'm an example of the laws working and preventing a future drunk driver.

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12 minutes ago, KCitons said:

Interesting. 

Did the same thing when I did my house arrest.  No alcohol, drugs or guns in the house.  A sheriff does a walk through of the house.  It wasn't very in depth though.

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26 minutes ago, KCitons said:

Please post this exact thing in the gun thread. 

Thanks,

My opinion is this can be a really good thread if you don’t do things like this. 

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1 hour ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I don’t immediately see a huge problem with requiring all cars to have breathalyzers before starting.  What’s the objection to that plan?  Too expensive?

When you are running away from an axe murderer and make it into your car 2 steps ahead of him (after fumbling your keys and tripping once, naturally).  Do you want to sit there and blow in the breath thingy while that psycho is swinging his axe at your windshield?  Do you?!?!

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