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KCitons

USA DUI Deaths (and how they relate to other things)

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1 minute ago, Stealthycat said:

U.S. vehicle deaths topped 40,000 in 2017

In 2017, 2,364 teens in the United States aged 16-19 were killed, and about 300,000 were treated in emergency departments for injuries suffered in motor vehicle crashes.1 That means six teens aged 16-19 died every day due to motor vehicle crashes, and hundreds more were injured.

In 2017, young people aged 15-19 represented 6.5% of the U.S. population. However, motor vehicle injuries, both fatal and nonfatal, among young people in this age group represented about $13.1 billion, or almost 8%, of the total costs of motor vehicle injuries.1,3

 

2,364 young people dead and 300,000 injured ....... imagine if instead of automobiles being the instruments of those statistics it were guns. 

 

What are your suggestions for preventing or reducing these deaths?

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58 minutes ago, KCitons said:

I never compared it to "when a child finds a parents gun". I said when a 16-20 year old uses a gun to commit a mass shooting, people want to know where/how he got the gun. 

I'm not comparing auto accidents to purposeful shootings. I'm comparing loss of life by one means to loss of life by another. In this case, I have chosen to use the constant of dui deaths vs a number of variables. Currently, it's gun deaths. Specifically, mass shootings. But, we could certainly expand on cigarettes or even the sudden outrage over teenagers vaping. As soon as 1 or 2 people died from vaping, there were people that wanted bans on vaping products. That just doesn't happen with alcohol related deaths.

Four kids died due to alcohol, and the response to finding the contributing factor, in order to prevent it from happening again, is met with "let it go". Society continues to prove my point about how we feel about alcohol. 

I think the way alchohol is viewed 20-30 years from now will be like cigarettes from 1950-2000. Everyone smoked, movies promoted the image, and eventually it turned and now it’s not really as cool. The culture of drinking is slowly changing in my opinion. In another 20 years there will still be drinking but the “American pie” and “Superbad” childhood of socially acceptable drinking is fading. 
 

I think the future of gun ownership will eventually run the same course. 

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17 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

I think the way alchohol is viewed 20-30 years from now will be like cigarettes from 1950-2000. Everyone smoked, movies promoted the image, and eventually it turned and now it’s not really as cool. The culture of drinking is slowly changing in my opinion. In another 20 years there will still be drinking but the “American pie” and “Superbad” childhood of socially acceptable drinking is fading. 
 

I think the future of gun ownership will eventually run the same course. 

Gun ownership has already started down this path.

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1 hour ago, KCitons said:

What are your suggestions for preventing or reducing these deaths?

Texting and driving is worse than drinking and driving.  I am on the road all the time and in the last 2 years have seen such a dramatic increase in rear end accidents and accident in general.  I would much rather drive with a person who has had a few drinks and it paying attention  than someone going 70 and not looking at the road for 5-10 seconds multiple times.

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9 minutes ago, Summer Wheat said:

Texting and driving is worse than drinking and driving.  I am on the road all the time and in the last 2 years have seen such a dramatic increase in rear end accidents and accident in general.  I would much rather drive with a person who has had a few drinks and it paying attention  than someone going 70 and not looking at the road for 5-10 seconds multiple times.

I'd much rather have all guns in the hands of hunters. But, that's not the world we live in.

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1 minute ago, KCitons said:

I'd much rather have all guns in the hands of hunters. But, that's not the world we live in.

Texting and driving is a choice and a sober choice that endangers any person on or near a road.  

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2 hours ago, KCitons said:

What are your suggestions for preventing or reducing these deaths?

I'm not

Those numbers of deaths and injuries and cost are what American society pays to drive automobiles. People really don't care that much as long as they get their car and can drive how they want. 

Something like 12% of the nation's drivers don't have insurance, about the same don't have licenses. Millions drive impaired every year, who knows the numbers that text and drive. But nobody blames the automobiles do they? 

they blame the PEOPLE right ?

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59 minutes ago, Summer Wheat said:

Texting and driving is a choice and a sober choice that endangers any person on or near a road.  

Shooting into a crowd of innocent people is a choice as well that endangers people near the shooter. 

I'm not arguing the dangers of things. I'm pointing out the social acceptance of one vs others. What would the response be to Remington or Smith & Wesson having a commercial during the Super Bowl promoting their newest model of the AR15? Yet, how many Bud Lite Platinum commercials have we seen in the past year?

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26 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

I'm not

Those numbers of deaths and injuries and cost are what American society pays to drive automobiles. People really don't care that much as long as they get their car and can drive how they want. 

Something like 12% of the nation's drivers don't have insurance, about the same don't have licenses. Millions drive impaired every year, who knows the numbers that text and drive. But nobody blames the automobiles do they? 

they blame the PEOPLE right ?

In the most recent incident here locally, I'm blaming the retailers. If underage drinkers are getting their alcohol via theft of items that are not locked up, and people are saying let it go, who should we blame. I guess it's the same as people that say they leave their cars warming up in their driveways and then complain when someone steals it. Do we have reasonable expectations of human behavior? Yes. But we also put things under lock and key to prevent them from getting into the wrong hands.

You admit to locking your guns in a safe. Why do you do that? Is it to protect them because they are valuable? Or because you don't want someone to steal them and have it lead to loss of life? 

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1 hour ago, KCitons said:

Gun ownership has already started down this path.

Alcohol has as well. I think the future will look back and say “wow everyone did that?” just like we did with cigarettes and spandex. 

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35 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

Alcohol has as well. I think the future will look back and say “wow everyone did that?” just like we did with cigarettes and spandex. 

Alcohol sales continue to rise while tobacco continues it's historic decline.   I don't think that booze, wine and beer are going to see a major fall any time soon.   Full legalization of recreational pot use and personal cultivation is probably the major threat to alcohol.

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45 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

Alcohol has as well. I think the future will look back and say “wow everyone did that?” just like we did with cigarettes and spandex. 

The only way that would happen is if they bring back prohibition.

US alcohol sales in 2018 reached US $253.8 billion, which is an increase of 5.1%, or $12.4 billion. In a report by conducted by bw166.com, it has been found that the average consumer spend has increased, as well as the average prices for alcoholic beverages.

The report also found that the legal drinking age population reached 240.7 million, with an increase of 2.4 million (1%).

Beer volumes decreased by 2% to 200.2 million barrels, though consumer spending on beer increased by 5% to $117.3 billion.

Wine volumes increased by 1.4% to 431.8 million 9-litre cases, (which includes 23.7 million cases of cider,) and consumer spending on wine increased by 4.91% to $72.2 billion. The average retail price for a 750ml bottle increased to $10.84, excluding on-premise markups.

Spirits volume increased by 2.9% to 235.6 million 9-litre cases, and consumer spending on spirits increased by 5% to $64.3 billion. The average retail price for a 750ml bottle increased to $15.92, excluding on-premise markups.

 

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Summer Wheat said:

The only way that would happen is if they bring back prohibition.

US alcohol sales in 2018 reached US $253.8 billion, which is an increase of 5.1%, or $12.4 billion. In a report by conducted by bw166.com, it has been found that the average consumer spend has increased, as well as the average prices for alcoholic beverages.

The report also found that the legal drinking age population reached 240.7 million, with an increase of 2.4 million (1%).

Beer volumes decreased by 2% to 200.2 million barrels, though consumer spending on beer increased by 5% to $117.3 billion.

Wine volumes increased by 1.4% to 431.8 million 9-litre cases, (which includes 23.7 million cases of cider,) and consumer spending on wine increased by 4.91% to $72.2 billion. The average retail price for a 750ml bottle increased to $10.84, excluding on-premise markups.

Spirits volume increased by 2.9% to 235.6 million 9-litre cases, and consumer spending on spirits increased by 5% to $64.3 billion. The average retail price for a 750ml bottle increased to $15.92, excluding on-premise markups.

 

Read this as:

beer sales down as people avoid gluten

wine up, perhaps coincides with population increase

Hmmmm....does whiteclaw count as a spirit? I think it does.  With the recent popularity of those type beverages I would venture a hypothesis that the loss of beer volume and increase of alcoholic seltzer or whatever you call it are related, and overall consumption has remained constant. Prices have risen for sure- as evidenced by the beer volume going down but sales going up. While I can’t really argue with your data, I still think we will eventually see the social acceptance of alcoholism differently as time passes. 
 

People older than me would talk of kegs rolling into the dorms, but we’re more strict when I was in college. But when I went if you got caught smoking weed in your dorm room you had to go to a substance abuse class the first couple times and then kicked out of the dorm. Compared to now though- they will bring police with dogs and arrest you. Of course you can’t even smoke cigarettes in the dorm anymore, or on planes for that matter....

Edited by Snorkelson
Actually you can’t even smoke anywhere on campus now

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17 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

Read this as:

beer sales down as people avoid gluten

wine up, perhaps coincides with population increase

Hmmmm....does whiteclaw count as a spirit? I think it does.  With the recent popularity of those type beverages I would venture a hypothesis that the loss of beer volume and increase of alcoholic seltzer or whatever you call it are related, and overall consumption has remained constant. Prices have risen for sure- as evidenced by the beer volume going down but sales going up. While I can’t really argue with your data, I still think we will eventually see the social acceptance of alcoholism differently as time passes. 
 

People older than me would talk of kegs rolling into the dorms, but we’re more strict when I was in college. But when I went if you got caught smoking weed in your dorm room you had to go to a substance abuse class the first couple times and then kicked out of the dorm. Compared to now though- they will bring police with dogs and arrest you. Of course you can’t even smoke cigarettes in the dorm anymore, or on planes for that matter....

I agree but that might be 50-60 years from now.  Not sure what the seltzer drinks

 

19 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

Read this as:

beer sales down as people avoid gluten

wine up, perhaps coincides with population increase

Hmmmm....does whiteclaw count as a spirit? I think it does.  With the recent popularity of those type beverages I would venture a hypothesis that the loss of beer volume and increase of alcoholic seltzer or whatever you call it are related, and overall consumption has remained constant. Prices have risen for sure- as evidenced by the beer volume going down but sales going up. While I can’t really argue with your data, I still think we will eventually see the social acceptance of alcoholism differently as time passes. 
 

People older than me would talk of kegs rolling into the dorms, but we’re more strict when I was in college. But when I went if you got caught smoking weed in your dorm room you had to go to a substance abuse class the first couple times and then kicked out of the dorm. Compared to now though- they will bring police with dogs and arrest you. Of course you can’t even smoke cigarettes in the dorm anymore, or on planes for that matter....

 I would think the seltzer would go under the wine category but not sure.

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Less keg beer + more white claw = younger (and probably more feminine) drinkers. 

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2 hours ago, KCitons said:

In the most recent incident here locally, I'm blaming the retailers. If underage drinkers are getting their alcohol via theft of items that are not locked up, and people are saying let it go, who should we blame. I guess it's the same as people that say they leave their cars warming up in their driveways and then complain when someone steals it. Do we have reasonable expectations of human behavior? Yes. But we also put things under lock and key to prevent them from getting into the wrong hands.

You admit to locking your guns in a safe. Why do you do that? Is it to protect them because they are valuable? Or because you don't want someone to steal them and have it lead to loss of life? 

where is the personal responsibility KCitons ?  reasonable expectations should be don't break the law right? These kids are the same age as Greta Thunberg and she's changing the world right?

I lock my guns to keep people from stealing them #1 

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3 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

where is the personal responsibility KCitons ?  reasonable expectations should be don't break the law right? These kids are the same age as Greta Thunberg and she's changing the world right?

I lock my guns to keep people from stealing them #1 

Personal responsibility is a sliding scale based on age. If it wasn't, we would have laws that set the drinking age at 21. There are exceptions like Greta. But, she is not the rule. Therefore we create rules to protect the masses. 

If a gun store left handguns and ammo out on the shelves for people (including underage people) to steal and possibly commit mass shootings, would society expect the retailer to be liable? This is essentially what is happening with alcohol. We aren't doing enough to keep kids from acquiring it. 

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1 hour ago, KCitons said:

Less keg beer + more white claw = younger (and probably more feminine) drinkers. 

Not as much as you’d think. Well, I guess I’m not sure what you mean exactly. More female drinkers? Or more men who say “ewww beer” and wear skinny jeans?


Curious where those drinks would fall in the sales category. They don’t come from a liquor distributor, but they are liquor and soda water,  not wine and not brewed. 

Also just want to chime in on the topic- I’m curious if you guys think the jig is up so to speak if Democrats were to somehow win all 3 branches. While it’s easy to say things on the campaign trail, I don’t think that’s happening personally. There would be legislation but I don’t see a scenario where anyone would ever come take the guns you own now (unless perhaps by red flag law.) 
I think frustration has built over time as seemingly nothing has changed, leading to more people willing to support a partial ban or all out ban because working with 2A supporters to create reasonable rules hasn’t worked; they won’t give an inch. 

My opinion- I don’t think it’s really about protecting the constitution, it’s about garnering votes/support, and is an area of emotional support than can be manipulated by unreasonable fear that someone will take it away. 

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