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*Official 2019 Philadelphia Eagles Thread* - Season's over; Go Away Now... (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter Insein
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babydemon90
Footballguy
well NFL was right to get this game out of the spotlight
sporthenry
Footballguy
I agree that he definitely has regressed. I mean today, he looked like a scared rookie QB. Unsure of his feet, throwing off his back foot or throwing into double coverage. I don't think he is this bad but I also don't think he is an elite QB either.
At best, he seems like he'll fall into that Stafford or Dalton category. Of all the QBs you list, Dalton has at least been a replacement level player.
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sporthenry
Footballguy
This is the thing that frustrates me. It isn't all Wentz's fault but a stud QB is supposed to hide a lot of deficiencies on teams. When you look at the receivers Wilson has had over the years, it hasn't been great. Heck, two of his top WRs now are guys the Eagles passed on either waivers or through the draft. Rodgers is throwing to a bunch of undrafted guys, a 5th round pick and a 2nd round pick.
Besides that, I also hate our personnel decisions. Mack Hollins is absolute trash. Our offense is so putrid, we can't just sign Wallace, Dez or some random person off the street and see what happens? It isn't like our offense is running complicated plays that work.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
I meant that when the pressure is on, in big games, he just doesn’t look the same as he does on meaningless games
I’m not going to go that far, yet. He’s definitely in a bad place confidence wise for sure. He looks very stiff and almost acting like every pass is the difference between him being benched or not. I think he can learn to play more loose and relaxed.
He has rehabbed an injury in back to back years and if he avoids major injury this season and we add a legit WR he can definitely live up to his potential.
Back to back weeks, against 2 of the best teams in football, we trotted out easily the worst looking WR’s in the league and franchise history. While I agree Wentz could have and should have been better I can see him trying to overcompensate for the lack of WR’s.
sporthenry
Footballguy
I guess it depends what your baseline is. Sure, the playoffs are still a possibility. But this is supposed to be the Eagle's Super Bowl window. I had expectations of an elite team. They just played two elite teams and looked pretty terrible during it.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
QB AND coach.
If you look at the game plans and play calls in these last two games you have to raise an eyebrow at Doug. He knows what he has at WR and you’d think they were our starters with the way he calls offense. Was a guy we just activated getting that many snaps and looks at WR? Where is the scheme to free up Ertz and Goedert? Where is Sanders in the passing game?
GoBirds
Footballguy
So you want to go back to Sanchez or the injured all season Nick Foles that cant put up a point against the Titans with much better receivers than we have? A lot of teams in this league would be more than happy to be “stuck” with Wentz.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
What’s the baseline for the Chiefs? Now take away their top THREE WR’s, 2 best OL and leading rusher. What do they have now against those 2 teams?
Losses is what they have.
renesauz
IBL Representative
As bad as they looked, the defense has more then turned it around. There's certainly reason to think the offense can become, if not good, at least competant again. It's far from over
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
And if they can get it going against the upcoming opponents before the Dallas game we could peak at the right time.
Its going to be interesting to see how we play next week.
babydemon90
Footballguy
We'll beat Miami and split with the Giants. I'm not sure on the Skins game - we barely beat them the first time, and need DJax going crazy to do it. Think we lose to Skins and Dallas. Final record 7-9.
sporthenry
Footballguy
It is funny how everyone rags on Jeffery and Agholor but then turn around and use their absence to fit a narrative. If they are playing below replacement level, then it shouldn't be hard to find WRs that can replace them.
The Chiefs actually didn't even dress their top RB a few weeks ago, Hill missed 4 games I believe. Eric Fisher missed 8 games.
I mean it seems like our whole season was dependent on the health of a 32-year old burner.
sporthenry
Footballguy
No doubt and I don't disagree. I think coaching and play calling has been suspect. But neither seems to be doing the other any favors. Not sure why they don't run the ball more. At the same time, the comment on air that during film sessions, they still have to point out who to throw the ball to is troubling.
sporthenry
Footballguy
This is a bit of a strawman argument. I wanted the next Rodgers, Brees, etc. Maybe that isn't fair but that is why you trade up to go get a QB. It wasn't to get a QB that is better than half the league, sign him to a massive extension and say, at least we're better than most.
That is perhaps why I'm super critical of the situation. I'm sure he'll bounce back and he isn't as bad as he showed today. But I'm becoming more and more confident that he'll never become that elite QB. I was hoping we'd have a QB for the next 10-12 years to lead us to lots of playoff appearances.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Did he really have “awesome” players around him in 2017?
i think that it’s more a question of continuity and scheme
GoBirds
Footballguy
No one is claiming the front office positioned Wentz well with weapons, but blaming all on him is comical.
Dak has had trouble so far against the same Pats Wentz struggled against. His one decent pass So far was to Cobb...his #3 receiver....that would be far and away our #1. Oh by the way he also has one of the best RB in the league taking attention away from receivers.
Edited to avoid jinx
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GoBirds
Footballguy
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
This isn’t baseball. In football you need chemistry. We are missing guys who are getting tons of reps, over a long time and replacing them with what? A guy who has 4 career catches? Another you just actived from the practice squad getting his first start after being a college QB converted to a WR?
Any fan would rather have Jeffery, Jackson and Agholor over what we ran out there today. Rank what we ran out there today statistically or by talent, where does this group rank in the NFL or Eagles history? I can’t think of any worse group I have ever seen
Im of the belief that Wentz has played bad AND his weapons suck AND missing your best OL hurts AND missing your leading rusher stinks. This isn’t an “either or” with me
Awesome? No. Very good role players and depth? Absolutely. It was 2 years ago and of you look at Jeffery in the SB versus this season you’d think it was 10 years ago lol
That part is troubling but seems common with some QB’s. I’ve heard it for years with Favre, still hear it was Rodgers too. It happens.
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sporthenry
Footballguy
I'm not putting all the blame on him. It just seems, as someone else said, he needs perfect conditions with great players around him to play well. I mean today, I'm comfortable laying on him. The defense earlier in the year didn't play well. The WRs have been well documented. Front office, coaching and personnel decisions have been questionable at best.
But he deserves a fair share of the blame and not just for today. He isn't the only problem. I'm not sure if he is the largest problem but its concerning if your franchise QB is a problem at all.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
2017 had neither of those things. Since that time, have his weapons and conditions and health gotten better or worse? All worse. Every single one.
At this point I will settle for good conditions, above average weapons and a healthy season with no rehabs in the off season
GoBirds
Footballguy
I get that today was a tough loss and we are overreacting but the bolded has never existed and he’s done well.....current situation around him is by far the worst. Yet after next week we will be tied for first in the division, let’s not freak out and let’s hope after we get rid of the brutal Jeffrey/DJax contracts they add some talent.
sporthenry
Footballguy
That is a fair point, 2017 wasn't perfect conditions. So why has he regressed so much since 2017? Injuries? I mean today he looked scared.
As far as his weapons being better or worse? I'd actually argue they're equal if not better. I mean the leading receivers on the 2017 team were Ertz, Jeffrey and Agholor. I mean Agholor is an enigma. Jeffrey seems to have regressed but has it been that much? Goedert is an upgrade. We don't have Torrey Smith. Jackson would obviously be an upgrade over that but ok so our 3rd receiver is worse? Blount was our leading RB and Ajayi our #2. Howard missed the past two games but I'd take him and Sanders over the 2017 crew. Maybe we miss Clement's versatility?
OL wise, it was Vaitai/Wisniewski/Kelce/Brooks/Johhnson vs Peters/Seumalo/Kelce/Brooks/Johnson. Vaitai is our #3/#4T so tough for me to think this is a weakness compared to 2017. Other than maybe Peters being older but if he was that bad, then Vaitai could replace him.
GoBirds
Footballguy
Come on man, today his top receivers were a guy signed off the practice squad this week and a guy signed off his couch 2 weeks ago.
sporthenry
Footballguy
I'm not talking today. I'm talking this year. Jeffery has missed 3 games and Agholor missed his first game today. While Wentz played his worst game today, he has been a far cry from his 2017 self.Come on man, today his top receivers were a guy signed off the practice squad this week and a guy signed off his couch 2 weeks ago.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Today and last week he looked bad at moments for sure. Today was arguably the worst I’ve ever seen him play but don’t all QB’s have bad games and stretches? Also rehabbing in each of the last two off seasons definitely plays a part. As does crap weapons, lack of depth and talent and coaching.
We aren’t on the same page with how we remember our 2017 team.
2017 Jeffery and Agholor looked WAYYYYYY better than they do now. Also having Torey Smith was huge.
Ajayi, Blount and Clement were a very well balanced RB core. Celek, Ertz and Burton did very well at TE As a group
The talent AND depth aren’t even close IMO.
I’d say OL is a push.
While I’m on the subject, a few weeks ago I asked in this thread who from 2017 was better today than they are now. As far as I recall no one answered. Would you care to? Right now I only have one and it’s Seumalo.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
If confidence is the biggest issue with Carson, then Miami couldn't have come at a better time. That should set him back on track.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
The entire offense and Doug included have a good opportunity the next couple weeks to build.
If they fail to, the leadership of the team and coaching staff deserve a ton of criticism.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
Yup - the problem is that even if they look really impressive the next couple of weeks people will just think it's due to the opponents that they've faced. I'm not sure you're really going to know who this team is until they face the Cowboys again.
need2know
Footballguy
babydemon90
Footballguy
sporthenry
Footballguy
Well this becomes an impossible analysis. I was mainly just pointing out that the names on the roster haven't changed much from an offensive standpoint. I mean clearly Jeffery and Agholor don't look as good but then why is that? Some of it is likely they aren't getting the ball where they were in 2017, some of it is they aren't doing as well as they were in 2017. Smith wasn't that huge. He had like 400 yards.
You're arguing both sides now. You just argued that he didn't have a great surrounding cast in 2017 but now we are saying Wentz misses Torrey Smith? That seems too convenient.
I mean, at worst the OL is a push. I'd say it's better given Vaitai is our #3/#4T. I can't recall how well Brooks played in 2017 but he's arguably the best guard in the league right now.
From a talent perspective at RB, I'd argue we're better. I'd take Howard and Sanders over Ajayi and Blount. Heck, now we even get Ajayi back. TE lost a little blocking but presumably Ertz would seemingly be a more complete player with more experience and is coming off a career year.
I mean the issue becomes impossible to analyze for us laymen because I don't have the stats to normalize for all the variables at play. But with how much influence the QB has on every part of the offense, I just find it difficult to think he isn't at least partially responsible for the regression. I guess that is the thing, we always hear excuses for why it isn't his fault. He is the most important player on this team and they are sub-500 and are 22nd in yards per game.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
Who are they? I think they're a mediocre team right now but they still have a very good shot at winning this division. The defense has gotten healthy and is starting to gel. They'll eventually get some of the WRs (and Lane Johnson) back and that should improve the offense. The upcoming schedule is cake. They're still a pretty talented team IMO. I don't think they're a super bowl caliber team but they could still make noise. We're not talking about the Miami Dolphins here.
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babydemon90
Footballguy
You said it. They're a mediocre team. That's it. We only have a shot at the division because the Cowboys are also fairly average (although better then us). Getting the WR's back will not improve the offense. Jackson might but hes not coming back this year. The upcoming schedule doesn't change who we are.Who are they? I think they're a mediocre team right now but they still have a very good shot at winning this division. The defense has gotten healthy and is starting to gel. They'll eventually get some of the WRs (and Lane Johnson) back and that should improve the offense. The upcoming schedule is cake. They're still a pretty talented team IMO. I don't think they're a super bowl caliber team but they could still make noise. We're not talking about the Miami Dolphins here.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
I think it just comes down to Carson. He has a few weeks to right the ship. If he is in fact the franchise QB that everyone thought he was before the season started, I think the team is talented enough to get to the playoffs and make a little noise. If not, well then we all know how it will end.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
You’re being obtuse now.
You’re mainly arguing the names are the same? The names? Really? Dude, look at them play. That’s what I’m saying. These are not the same players. Why don’t they look the same or why do they look worse? Well, that’s the million dollar question. If you were to look at any other team and within two years see a drop off or little to no improvement for much of the team who would you look at first? Obviously the QB right?
We’ll agree to disagree on the rest.
babydemon90
Footballguy
I feel (am hoping?) that the litany of injuries so early in his career just set back his development, so maybe with some time we can fix it. I doubt its happening this year - hes getting worse, not better. But we're stuck with him for 3 year, so maybe we can go back to the basics (again) this offseason. Its just concerning - how many QB's that regressed in their 4th year ended up righting the ship?
The biggest thing this year is the complete lack of downfield plays. He's always been ~60% completion guy. That hasn't changed. But he used to be able to make some downfield plays. So maybe it is the WR's? dunno.
The biggest thing this year is the complete lack of downfield plays. He's always been ~60% completion guy. That hasn't changed. But he used to be able to make some downfield plays. So maybe it is the WR's? dunno.
babydemon90
Footballguy
FWIW, the guy off the practice squad had more catches then Mack Hollins in his last 8 games combined so...Come on man, today his top receivers were a guy signed off the practice squad this week and a guy signed off his couch 2 weeks ago.
modogg
Footballguy
it's funny to me, i'm not even on the team, but Jason Peters scares me:
John Clark✔@JClarkNBCS
Jason Peters on finger pointing?
“There won’t be any of that. Not in our locker room. Not while I am here. We’ll keep the guys together, rally around each other”
“We have to win out. No ifs, ands or buts, we’ve got to win out. We’ve got to win out. Point blank
My guess is it may be a quiet week, no more rumors or quotes coming out of the locker room
John Clark✔@JClarkNBCS
Jason Peters on finger pointing?
“There won’t be any of that. Not in our locker room. Not while I am here. We’ll keep the guys together, rally around each other”
“We have to win out. No ifs, ands or buts, we’ve got to win out. We’ve got to win out. Point blank
My guess is it may be a quiet week, no more rumors or quotes coming out of the locker room
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
That speaks more to his point than against it lol
I’m dead serious, rank JJAW, Hollins, Ward or Jordan Matthews ANY WAY you want. Stats or your version of talent and tell me where that group ranks against the NFL or Eagles history and let us know where you end up.
GoBirds
Footballguy
So after the 3 years you are stuck with him are you banking on landing a stud in the mid first round or that other teams are going to let a franchise QB hit free agency?
Who is getting wide open on these downfield plays he's not making? Jordan Matthews who was slow when drafted years ago and was just signed off his couch a few weeks back? Ward who just came up from the practice squad? JJAW who has been a complete bust so far? So weird he hasn't gotten better this season working with all this talent.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Gachi
Footballguy
Nelly is terrible, we already know that. Perfectly thrown ball and he should have made a play, but for some reason he can’t do that. Then he fakes an injury to boot.
jasvic
Footballguy
sporthenry
Footballguy
Yeah, and I've been saying Ward should be playing over Hollins. For an offense that struggles to score, keeping a WR for special teams plays seems absurd.babydemon90 said:
It is just convenient that people use this as another excuse. I think it points to management's poor decision making than it says anything about Ward's ability.
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