timschochet
Footballguy
Biden is really getting under Trump’s skin at this point. First, 48 retweets from firemen who support Trump. Then he calls Biden “not the brightest lightbulb”.
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***Official Joe Biden Campaign Thread (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I would feel terrible if I elected someone worse than Trump. Biden isn’t a smart version of Trump.
timschochet
Footballguy
NCCommish
Footballguy
But the next Trump will be. And there will be another Trump if we don't significantly change direction.
NCCommish
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
I don’t want to get to a different place. I want the place we had from 2009 to 2016. That was a good place.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
You’re the one who seems okay with people taking some kind of moral stand against voting to keep Trump out and getting him re-elected. Which is what happened in 2016 to get him elected.
NCCommish
Footballguy
No what got Trump elected was 30 years of neoliberalism and hard right policies. The Democrats are responsible for half of that equation. I'm responsible for half that for not voting my conscience and being blind to the building consequence. The path to hell is paved with good intentions. I've chosen another path. And I've found what I was always told is true. Doing the right thing is always harder than doing the expedient thing but it's still the right thing.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Yes the place with war crimes, assassinations, erosion of liberty and selling out the majority of the country. What a wonderful world you long for.
timschochet
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Come on. I don’t believe in war crimes, or assassinations, or erosion of liberty, or selling anyone out. Must I support Bernie Sanders or some other progressive to oppose those things? I reject that argument.
And I also reject your implication that my political choices are based on expediency. If I support Joe Biden in this election it’s because his views are closest to my own. That’s why I supported Hillary last time around.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I agree with the sentiment. But I think those good intentions (“He can’t win anyway and maybe we can make a third party viable!”) brought about our current hell.
Interpretation, of course, is why Nostradamus’s “predictions” are so popular. All the platitudes look so right to every current perspective when looking in the rear view mirror.
Trump wasn’t a reaction against the right.
He was partially a reaction against the excesses of the left.
More than that, though, he was put into office by people who wanted to blow the current system up. One of the things that Trump supporters and many Bernie supporters seem to have in common is a desire to blow the current system up.
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ren hoek
Footballguy
Why is the lesson that NCC should support someone he doesn’t believe in? The candidates should come to us, not the other way around. Maybe if more people stuck to their convictions we wouldn’t be in this mess. We need more people who think like that, not centrists who ‘hold their nose’ and foist garbage on the rest of us.
ren hoek
Footballguy
https://twitter.com/yaldabaoth616/status/1123794518946480134?s=21
"First of all, I actually like **** Cheney, for real. I get on with him. I think he's a decent man."
"First of all, I actually like **** Cheney, for real. I get on with him. I think he's a decent man."
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NCCommish
Footballguy
The neoliberals aren't the left
When the forest gets too much deadwood nature uses a fire to cleanse it. We need a fire.
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NCCommish
Footballguy
You dont get to cherry pick. If you want those 8 years you have to accept what comes with them as a package Tim. I didn't put any words in your mouth I just clarified what you are rooting for. Now I'm sure you personally dont like those things because you're a good person but if you vote for them you have responsibility for them going on. At some point the American bombs that are used to kill children put blood on all our hands whether we like it or not. The drone strikes that kill first responders put blood on our hands. The terrorism spawned by our violence puts blood on our hands. That's reality Tim. Everyday our consent is used to do things we would find heinous. When do we do something about it Tim? When do we accept our responsibility?
timschochet
Footballguy
Are you seriously trying to suggest here that if your man Sanders is elected nothing bad will happen under his Presidency? That all drone attacks and everything else you abhor will instantly stop? And if they don’t, will you be cherry picking if you continue to approve of his Presidency?
badmojo1006
Footballguy
ren hoek
Footballguy
haha, wow
https://twitter.com/ZaidJilani/status/1124063378950041609
Joe Biden on North Korea, in August 2000. "If they develop...I agree with the Israeli position on this. If we have evidence that they are building...a missile system, an offensive system...I would support a unilateral strike to take them out."
https://twitter.com/ZaidJilani/status/1124063378950041609
Joe Biden on North Korea, in August 2000. "If they develop...I agree with the Israeli position on this. If we have evidence that they are building...a missile system, an offensive system...I would support a unilateral strike to take them out."
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Overall I'm not a fan of Biden and I'm extremely skeptical about Democrats and Republicans working together effectively. However, if I had to pick the candidate most likely to be able to make compromises with the other side, I'd have to admit that would be Biden. (And, for the record, I think that would be a good thing.)
That's a pretty fascinating stance for Biden to take. I'd have to think every Democrat would hate it and feel like badmojo.
Gaffe on his part or carefully calculated move to reach across aisle and invite people in?
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
As usual I'll just recommend that people look at the full context. This was part of an almost 6 hour symposium with Walter Mondale on the vice presidency. He and Mondale discussed their discussions with prior VP's before they took the job, Mondale with Humphrey and Biden with Cheney. - That segment begins at 00:56:47. Biden goes on to talk about how Cheney talked about having a "shadow national security agency" composed of a staff of 22 people. Biden goes on to say that he believed in relying on the NSA and having confidence in the President and he rejected that. It's a very different conversation than what that snip presents. Biden explicitly rejects Cheney's proposal of a "co-dependent" "satellite operation" within the White House. He was just talking about how Cheney walked him through the operations of the VP's office. Mondale himself said that Cheney was "kind" to him and his wife. Mondale goes on to say that Cheney brought the office to the "dark side". Biden then goes to say that he has a harsh view of Cheney and criticizes Bush for allowing it to happen. Anyway it won't matter much to people I'm sure but Biden was specifically speaking of how Cheney welcomed him during the transition.
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Juxtatarot
Footballguy
It’s my understanding that politicians generally have been extremely courteous and helpful during the transition of power. I’m not surprised at this in the least. It’s disappointing to me that people think otherwise.
Please stop using context and facts. It's way more difficult to be outraged by the soundbite that way. You're ruining how it's supposed to work.
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Mister CIA
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
I don’t think it’s either. I think Joe Biden is the sort of person who separates people from their political beliefs, and tries to like everyone. I admire that.
timschochet
Footballguy
Incidentally, I think that if Bernie were asked this he might say the same.
Jobber
Footballguy
I don’t think it’s reaching across the aisle. Reaching across the aisle would mean saying something nice about people currently held in high regard by Republicans. The Republican Party is now the party of Trump. I don’t think think current Republicans have a high opinion of Bush administration folks. They probably regard Cheney the same way they regard McCain.
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Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
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Mister CIA
Footballguy
I don't agree with that at all. I don't think the Republican leaning folks who supported Bush / Cheney now suddenly don't care about them and are all in for Trump / Pence.
I know a lot of conservative Republicans who're luke warm at best for Trump and they take something positive about Cheney as a Democrat including them.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
If he, like you, sees no appreciable difference between Trump and, say, Clinton, he absolutely shouldn’t take anything like that lesson from this.
You may be right. I just googled "how republicans currently view cheney" and it looks like Liz Cheney, at least, is still in good standing.
And for sure, I'm going on just my personal interaction which is a super small number of people. It's interesting though.
How do you think Republicans would feel if Biden said that John McCain was a great man? It could be viewed as reaching across the aisle, but it could also be viewed as reaching across the aisle to poke the opposing party in the eye. Trump supporters on the whole seem to really dislike McCain (as well as the Bush family and many other "establishment" Republicans).
Again, just from the people I know, I think they'd love it. I know lots of conservative / republican people who were extremely disappointed in how Trump treated McCain.
In fact, if i were Biden, that might be exactly the right direction to go - embracing McCain.
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And I fully admit, I may be a minority in longing for the old days where politicians could be blue or red but still felt like they were pulling for the same bigger team.
Biden's sentiment toward McCain at his funeral seemed to reflect that. And I think that's appealing. We'll see I guess how many people agree.
Biden's sentiment toward McCain at his funeral seemed to reflect that. And I think that's appealing. We'll see I guess how many people agree.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Seems to me that Biden is smart enough to realize that independents have a large say in who wins presidential elections, and taking a position like that is one a centrist can respect (regardless of how little one might think of Cheney).
timschochet
Footballguy
President Trump’s constant tweets about Biden is helping Joe. Biden would like nothing more than to be able to talk about Trunp rather than his opponents; it makes him seem inevitable. If I were Trump’s advisors I’d tell him to lay off. Of course Trump is known to listen to his advisors Lol.
So that’s the good news for Biden this morning. But there is bad news as well. Biden’s main argument so far is that he is the one who can beat Donald Trump. But the polling suggests that ALL of the Democrats can beat Donald Trump. If the Democratic base comes to believe that they can have their cake and eat it too, they will likely choose a more progressive candidate.
So that’s the good news for Biden this morning. But there is bad news as well. Biden’s main argument so far is that he is the one who can beat Donald Trump. But the polling suggests that ALL of the Democrats can beat Donald Trump. If the Democratic base comes to believe that they can have their cake and eat it too, they will likely choose a more progressive candidate.
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
Nope. Bush and Cheney were great.Maurile Tremblay said:
ren hoek
Footballguy
https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1123352740363681792
Biden stands with Trump/Bolton in their regime change op in Venezuela. #substantiallybetter
Biden stands with Trump/Bolton in their regime change op in Venezuela. #substantiallybetter
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
New 2020 poll From @CNN:
poll just out: Biden 39% Sanders 15% Warren 8% Buttigieg 7% O’Rourke 6% Harris 5% Booker 2% Gabbard 2% Klobuchar 2% Castro 1% Gillibrand 1% Inslee 1% Swalwell 1% Williamson 1% Yang 1% de Blasio <1% Ryan <1% Bennet 0% Delaney 0% Hickenlooper 0% Messam 0% Moulton 0%
poll just out: Biden 39% Sanders 15% Warren 8% Buttigieg 7% O’Rourke 6% Harris 5% Booker 2% Gabbard 2% Klobuchar 2% Castro 1% Gillibrand 1% Inslee 1% Swalwell 1% Williamson 1% Yang 1% de Blasio <1% Ryan <1% Bennet 0% Delaney 0% Hickenlooper 0% Messam 0% Moulton 0%
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