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***Official Joe Biden Campaign Thread (2 Viewers)

Biden's soft on China. I wonder if the trade dispute, even if it a lot of folks don't agree with why the tariffs are in place, doesn't push people away from wanting a conciliatory tone with China. To draw an analogy to '64, there were a tremendous number of Republicans (cough National Unionists cough) that had issues with Lincoln, but the electorate wasn't going to go for anyone running on a Peace Program. So even with internal strife within the party and a tepid populace, the incumbent won handily.

Perhaps the Democrats need someone who will take a strict line with China, perhaps on human rights issues if there's a general consensus in 2020 that China should not be treated as a friend.

 
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/04/joe-biden-calls-on-financiers-to-raise-up-to-100000-to-join-committee.html

This is the same type of pay-for-play that kept Hillary from winning in 2016.

Biden’s bundler targets are the latest signs that the Democratic frontrunner is distancing himself from rivals such as Sens. Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, who have sought to build goodwill among grassroots donors while shunning big-money backers.
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All of the under-30 enthusiasm in the Dems camp just gets sucked out of the room.

 
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.  And the wheels on the bus go round and round.  #### Biden.  He had his chance and he turned his back on the country.   He's literally the only person in the nation who the DNC would have allowed to be the candidate besides Hillary.  And he chose not to do it.  

Bob Mueller should run. 

 
Gawain said:
Biden's soft on China. I wonder if the trade dispute, even if it a lot of folks don't agree with why the tariffs are in place, doesn't push people away from wanting a conciliatory tone with China. To draw an analogy to '64, there were a tremendous number of Republicans (cough National Unionists cough) that had issues with Lincoln, but the electorate wasn't going to go for anyone running on a Peace Program. So even with internal strife within the party and a tepid populace, the incumbent won handily.

Perhaps the Democrats need someone who will take a strict line with China, perhaps on human rights issues if there's a general consensus in 2020 that China should not be treated as a friend.
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Not sure Biden is soft, he just feels they are not a threat.   Come on man..

 
Sabertooth said:
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.  And the wheels on the bus go round and round.  #### Biden.  He had his chance and he turned his back on the country.   He's literally the only person in the nation who the DNC would have allowed to be the candidate besides Hillary.  And he chose not to do it.  

Bob Mueller should run. 
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Yeah, #### Biden for having his son die.  #### that guy!

 
The latest criticism of Biden is that he’s not for getting rid of the Hyde Amendment, which prohibits federal funding for abortion. 

I’ve always been torn on this question, myself. I’m very much pro-choice. But I know there are millions of Americans who honestly believe that abortion is murder. It seems wrong to me to force them through their tax dollars to pay for something they are so opposed to. Now, the argument I usually get in response is that pacifists in this country are forced to pay taxes to support our military, and rightly so. But that’s an issue of national security; this isn’t. 

Personally I give money to Planned Parenthood for the purpose of helping poor women to make their own reproductive choices, including abortion. But I don’t know if it’s right to force others to do the same. 

 
timschochet said:
Personally I give money to Planned Parenthood for the purpose of helping poor women to make their own reproductive choices, including abortion. But I don’t know if it’s right to force others to do the same. 
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1 in 5 women have used planned parenthood resources. It is more than just a place for poor women 

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Yeah, #### Biden for having his son die.  #### that guy!
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Favre played the day after his dad died.  Same type of thing.  The country really needed him.  He chose himself and his family over the nation.  It doesn't make him an awful person, just not the right person.  I don't hate him for it or anything but on the other hand, he's a big part of the mess we are in.  There are better options than a 70+ guy who inspired McConnell to screw Merrick Garland out of a justice seat.  No thanks.  Hard Pass.  He couldn't muster the strength when needed.  I know that sounds heartless, but it's just a fact.  

 
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The fact that political power isn't Biden's very highest priority makes me more likely to vote for him, not less.

 
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Sabertooth said:
Favre played the day after his dad died.  Same type of thing.  The country really needed him.  He chose himself and his family over the nation.  It doesn't make him an awful person, just not the right person.  I don't hate him for it or anything but on the other hand, he's a big part of the mess we are in.  There are better options than a 70+ guy who inspired McConnell to screw Merrick Garland out of a justice seat.  No thanks.  Hard Pass.  He couldn't muster the strength when needed.  I know that sounds heartless, but it's just a fact.  
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There's literally hundreds of things one could be critical of Biden for doing before getting to "after his son died he chose not to join his third presidential campaign in the last 8 years when he could have heroically, umm, tried to stop the first female major party presidential nominee in American history." I mean whatever you may think of Clinton and the DNC and Biden, I'm having a hard time thinking of that as a disqualifying move.

As a separate matter- playing in a football game after losing a parent is really, really, really different from joining a presidential campaign that places a huge burden and microscope on your entire family after you lose your child.

As another separate matter- the DNC has been completely fair to the candidates. The reason he's leading the polls is because old people and African-Americans like him, not because of the party power players or his financial backers (he's barely even started campaigning).  I don't see how you can make a "same as the old boss" argument here.

 
TobiasFunke said:
As a separate matter- playing in a football game after losing a parent is really, really, really different from joining a presidential campaign that places a huge burden and microscope on your entire family after you lose your child.
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:goodposting:

And that's all that really needs to be said about that analogy.

 
Mile High said:
If the under 30 crowd wants to take their ball and go home, then I hope they spend the next 25 years enjoying Trump's judges. 
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If the DNC wants the ‘under 30 crowd,’ then reach out to the under 30 crowd.  Or turn their backs on them again, like they did in 2016.  But they can’t have both.  Pick one.  

It’s not the voters’ fault that Joe Biden sucks.  

 
ren hoek said:
If the DNC wants the ‘under 30 crowd,’ then reach out to the under 30 crowd.  Or turn their backs on them again, like they did in 2016.  But they can’t have both.  Pick one.  

It’s not the voters’ fault that Joe Biden sucks.  
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This is an interesting point, as I wonder what the stats are on which age groups stayed home or went 3rd party in 16 (vs say '12 or '08). Black turnout was down by 20% in some key states IIRC.

 
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It is the year 2019. The Democrats are circling the wagons around a geriatric segregationist who hates weed, loves putting people in prison, loves endless war, loves Israel, loves big money donors, and has nothing but contempt for millennials.  If/when he loses to Trump in 2020, they will blame progressives, independents and millennials for not turning out harder for him.

 
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ren hoek said:
It is the year 2019. The Democrats are circling the wagons around a geriatric segregationist who hates weed, loves putting people in prison, loves endless war, loves Israel, loves big money donors, and has nothing but contempt for millennials.  If/when he loses to Trump in 2020, they will blame progressives and independents for not turning out harder for Joe Biden.  
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Can you give me an example of Democrats in power that you think are "circling the wagons"?  I get why people think the party leadership favored Clinton in 2016, but there is zero evidence of that in 2020. The people you're belittling and chastising here aren't Dem power players. It's old people and African-Americans, who are the source of Biden's favorable polling numbers to date.  That's the "they" here.  It's a pretty silly argument.

Also Biden favors decriminalizing marijuana. He voted for the Iraq war resolution but since then has opposed both the troop surge and escalations in Afghanistan. And I'm not sure why "loves Israel" is a pejorative. A nation is not its leaders or its policies. These people love America, do they not?

Maybe tone down the exaggerations and outright falsehoods a bit and your message might be more effective? Just a suggestion.

 
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ren hoek said:
If the DNC wants the ‘under 30 crowd,’ then reach out to the under 30 crowd.  Or turn their backs on them again, like they did in 2016.  But they can’t have both.  Pick one.  

It’s not the voters’ fault that Joe Biden sucks.  
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Is this shtick?  Ignoring older voters and minority voters in order to cater you message to "reaching out to the under 30 crowd" is political suicide.  

 
Biden has the nomination in the bag if he is smart.  In golf terms he’s up 5 strokes with three holes to play.  Leave the driver in the bag, lay up and avoid hazards.  

He is smart to avoid any candidate forums.  Don’t give anyone a chance to share his stage.  Let the others have their battle royals and blow through their cash.  

 
knowledge dropper said:
Biden has the nomination in the bag if he is smart.  In golf terms he’s up 5 strokes with three holes to play.  Leave the driver in the bag, lay up and avoid hazards.  

He is smart to avoid any candidate forums.  Don’t give anyone a chance to share his stage.  Let the others have their battle royals and blow through their cash.  
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And hope that America can support a coward, a man unwilling to debate his principles.

 
Widbil83 said:
This really probably deserves its own thread but I’ll just leave it here. I’ve been telling you guys the same thing for 6 months and he is 100% correct.  

The best part about this is Bernie basically endorses Trump in the candidate he’s outlining.   :lmao:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/06/02/sanders_not_enough_to_defeat_trump_must_address_the_reasons_why_trump_got_elected_in_the_first_place.html
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I post in a Trump thread and have 5 notifications immediately from the usual suspects, I post this in the Biden thread and crickets.  The fact that nobody has tried to beat this back tells you all you need to know.  

 
Widbil83 said:
This really probably deserves its own thread but I’ll just leave it here. I’ve been telling you guys the same thing for 6 months and he is 100% correct.  

The best part about this is Bernie basically endorses Trump in the candidate he’s outlining.   :lmao:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/06/02/sanders_not_enough_to_defeat_trump_must_address_the_reasons_why_trump_got_elected_in_the_first_place.html
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Actually, an interesting read. Those that choose to ignore what Sanders is saying do so at their own peril. The question is really whether Sanders is so radical that he turns off independents that might turn out in significant numbers for Biden, bent on defeating Trump.

 
Widbil83 said:
This really probably deserves its own thread but I’ll just leave it here. I’ve been telling you guys the same thing for 6 months and he is 100% correct.  

The best part about this is Bernie basically endorses Trump in the candidate he’s outlining.  

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/06/02/sanders_not_enough_to_defeat_trump_must_address_the_reasons_why_trump_got_elected_in_the_first_place.html
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>>But you want to address the reasons why Trump got elected in the first place. 

What was that? It is because for too long the Democratic establishment has ignored the needs of working people all over this country. People work longer hours for lower wages. 40 million people living in poverty. The only major country not to guarantee healthcare to all people as a right. A vigorous effort to combat climate change, dealing with criminal justice reform, immigration reform. Those are issues that are not only the major issues facing this country, income and wealth inequality -- how do you not talk about that? We have got to talk about that because it is the right thing to do and it is the way you win an election.<<

- I think Sanders has been saying this for a while, and it’s a fair point. I’m not exactly sure the other candidates are ignoring these issues though. Do you think they are?

 
Da Guru said:
In the end it might be.  Look at who we ended up with in the last election.
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I believe that who we ended up with had a great deal to do with folks trying to triangulate the end game far too early.  The prophesies self fulfilled because powerful forces sold that outcome.  Who knows what movements might emerge, what avalanches might be triggered by the smallest initial forces of folks voting their consciences rather than voting for political triangulation defined by others.

 
Widbil83 said:
I post in a Trump thread and have 5 notifications immediately from the usual suspects, I post this in the Biden thread and crickets.  The fact that nobody has tried to beat this back tells you all you need to know.  
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It matters for sure, but not for this election. I disagree with most of Bernie’s points but there is no doubt in my mind we’re going to have that debate, perhaps as early as 2024. First though Trump has to go, and I’m pretty confident that Democrats and independents will be united on that point. After Trumpism has been exorcised from our political system, then the fight between traditional liberalism and Democratic socialism will take place. 

 
Widbil83 said:
I post in a Trump thread and have 5 notifications immediately from the usual suspects, I post this in the Biden thread and crickets.  The fact that nobody has tried to beat this back tells you all you need to know.  
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What is all we need to know?

There's certainly some truth in what Bernie says. The Dems do need to pay closer attention to the needs of the working class. But that isn't the only thing that lead to Trump. You can go back at least as far as Nixon and his southern strategy and the silent majority to see the roots of this. And then carry it up through Rush Limbaugh and Fox News. 

But that doesn't change the fact that the Dems do need to pay more attention to the working class.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
I believe that who we ended up with had a great deal to do with folks trying to triangulate the end game far too early.  The prophesies self fulfilled because powerful forces sold that outcome.  Who knows what movements might emerge, what avalanches might be triggered by the smallest initial forces of folks voting their consciences rather than voting for political triangulation defined by others.
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Oh I agree..but I  won`t be surprised if it is Trump vs Biden in 2020

 
Da Guru said:
Not real big on polls anymore after last election. What concerns me is that many Trump voters will not admit in polls they are voting for him. They stay silent then cast the vote.
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I agree, and I've sworn off horse race politics myself, but I do think it's crazy a sitting president is polling 34-38% among registered voters.

 
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Ditkaless Wonders said:
And hope that America can support a coward, a man unwilling to debate his principles.
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Coward is a little strong.  The smart play is the long play which is what it looks like he will do.  Biden’s record is well documented.  He can play the Elder Statesman card.  Only bad things can happen to him in these very early forums.  Save his money and work behind the scenes to accumulate funds (and cut off the others) for the big battle ahead.  

He beats Trump unless he does something stupid with VP.  Smart play is go young and relatively safe with O’Rourke.  

 
timschochet said:
It matters for sure, but not for this election. I disagree with most of Bernie’s points but there is no doubt in my mind we’re going to have that debate, perhaps as early as 2024. First though Trump has to go, and I’m pretty confident that Democrats and independents will be united on that point. After Trumpism has been exorcised from our political system, then the fight between traditional liberalism and Democratic socialism will take place. 
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Oh Tim, stubborn as always.  :lmao:

 
whoknew said:
What is all we need to know?

There's certainly some truth in what Bernie says. The Dems do need to pay closer attention to the needs of the working class. But that isn't the only thing that lead to Trump. You can go back at least as far as Nixon and his southern strategy and the silent majority to see the roots of this. And then carry it up through Rush Limbaugh and Fox News. 

But that doesn't change the fact that the Dems do need to pay more attention to the working class.
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All we need to know means that there is no enthusiasm for Biden and most people agree with Bernie here apparently.  Which is pretty damaging for Biden.  But if you guys think spazzing out about Trump is enough to drag Biden across the line in 2020 have fun with that.  

 
Great Quote from AOC on Biden:

“If you’re pride is being a moderate centrist candidate, then go out and say that,” she said. “Say I’m a proud centrist, I’m proud to be fueled by Wall Street, I’m proud to not push as hard as I can on women’s rights.”
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Biden..LOL.what a friggin clown. not a chance he wins a primary, or the nomination, or the WH. not a f**king chance. or any of the other 2500 also-rans.Trump takes this is a LANDSLIDE, BLOWOUT/ the biggest slaughter since Custer at Little Big Horn.

BIDEN! LOL...seriously that's all the Dems have is BIDEN?? haaaaaa.

 
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timschochet said:
It matters for sure, but not for this election. I disagree with most of Bernie’s points but there is no doubt in my mind we’re going to have that debate, perhaps as early as 2024. First though Trump has to go, and I’m pretty confident that Democrats and independents will be united on that point. After Trumpism has been exorcised from our political system, then the fight between traditional liberalism and Democratic socialism will take place. 
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Trumpism, which is really just reactionary politics, manifested in our system because of neglect and dispossession by neoliberal elites.  It's happening all over the world for the exact same reasons it happened here.  It's not going away until those grievances are addressed. 

You will never have your brand of ivory tower elitism again without running someone that at least pays lipservice to this disenfranchised electorate.  The Obama sheen will fade when people actually figure out who Joe Biden is- it's why he's so desperate to avoid public appearances.  

 
ren hoek said:
Trumpism, which is really just reactionary politics, manifested in our system because of neglect and dispossession by neoliberal elites.  It's happening all over the world for the exact same reasons it happened here.  It's not going away until those grievances are addressed. 

You will never have your brand of ivory tower elitism again without running someone that at least pays lipservice to this disenfranchised electorate.  The Obama sheen will fade when people actually figure out who Joe Biden is- it's why he's so desperate to avoid public appearances.  
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Obama sheen- would that be a cross between our last President and Jed Bartlett? Because if so I’m down. 

 
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