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***Official Joe Biden Campaign Thread (5 Viewers)

Is this thread ever about Biden? It’s hilarious how little he is ever actually talked about in here. 
Let's talk about him. 

A few of us are old enough to recall watching the Clarence Thomas Supreme Court nomination hearings on television, over which Biden was supposed to govern the action.  

At around 8:45 of this clip, Biden indicates that he will not allow the hearing to devolve into a mud slinging sh*tshow about lurid sexual accusations, masturbation, pornography and slime. 

For days, Biden hemmed and hawed, letting Senator Howell Heflin and others ramble on about National Enquirer level accusations that they saw on television the night before, and the entire hearing indeed devolved into exactly the sh*tshow Biden ensured it wouldn't be.    This event was the beginning of the end for civility and decorum in what was designed to be an instrumental part of the checks and balances in our constitutional republic, with the legislative branch acting as a check on the judicial.    Instead, it started the long downward slide of these types of hearings merely being a referendum on whatever the social issue of the day was, with the primary focus of the hearings shifting to just another stage for the lowest form of political mudslinging.

Thomas eventually (around 16:00) called the entire hearing a hi-tech lynching, saying the Supreme Court job wasn't worth the degrading exercise the process had became. 

I think we've seen Biden's leadership style in action.    

 
best theories for Biden's current *relative* weakness in Pennsylvania compared to MI/MN/WI?

 
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best theories for Biden's current *relative* weakness in Pennsylvania compared to MI/MN/WI?
I am not sure it exists. He was ahead by 9 in the last high quality poll. The polling average is around +5  on 538. That is a bit smaller than Michigan and Wisconsin, but well within a margin of error. 

 
best theories for Biden's current *relative* weakness in Pennsylvania compared to MI/MN/WI?
Just saw this convo on twitter. Nate Silver’s take is that PA has historically been redder than MI/MN/WI, so it could be mean reversion. PA also has fewer non-college whites, Biden’s biggest strength relative to Clinton.

And it also could just be noise. :shrug:  We have a lot of data points for WI and MN, while quality PA polling has been a bit sparse.

 
This is pretty funny using this as a reference considering the current tenant of the White House was actually named as a coconspirator with his lawyer and the National Enquirer in a hush money scheme. 
Yes, the Playboy bunny Karen McDougal affair, correct?    Trump's sex life has been a matter of media attention for decades.   He had more media attention focused on him prior to entering office than most likely all other prior President's combined.    His extensive use of contract law and reams of hard ball attorneys was also well known (go read all the Roy Cohn stuff).    He certainly doesn't live a life that most of us aspire to, yet all this crap was well known prior to 2016.      What people don't seem to understand is the electorate largely compartmentalizes this stuff and votes anyway.

What does all that have to do with what a Biden Presidency would look like?  

 
Yes, the Playboy bunny Karen McDougal affair, correct?    Trump's sex life has been a matter of media attention for decades.   He had more media attention focused on him prior to entering office than most likely all other prior President's combined.    His extensive use of contract law and reams of hard ball attorneys was also well known (go read all the Roy Cohn stuff).    He certainly doesn't live a life that most of us aspire to, yet all this crap was well known prior to 2016.      What people don't seem to understand is the electorate largely compartmentalizes this stuff and votes anyway.

What does all that have to do with what a Biden Presidency would look like?  
And the porn star. I'm not talking morals, I'm talking crime. Not to mention using the DOJ as his personal lawyers to fight a defamation-based-on-rape personal lawsuit that's currently underway.

Hopefully fairly closely to normally ethical. 

 
Given Biden's recent comment re: Breonna Taylor case to “let the judicial system work its way,” he and Harris need to make a statement about the civil suit recently being settled as a positive step in that direction.

That's leadership. Not simply reactively pandering to protestors' votes, but also giving credit where it is due to a judicial system (civil only, I understand) that can quickly produce an outcome satisfactory to the victim's family.

 
Just saw this convo on twitter. Nate Silver’s take is that PA has historically been redder than MI/MN/WI, so it could be mean reversion. PA also has fewer non-college whites, Biden’s biggest strength relative to Clinton.

And it also could just be noise. :shrug:  We have a lot of data points for WI and MN, while quality PA polling has been a bit sparse.
Silver says polls don’t match forecasts this far out but as we get closer they will align 

Forecasts have the race a lot closer than polls atm

 
And the porn star. I'm not talking morals, I'm talking crime. Not to mention using the DOJ as his personal lawyers to fight a defamation-based-on-rape personal lawsuit that's currently underway.

Hopefully fairly closely to normally ethical. 
I empathize with the critiques of Trump.  I really do.  But I'll never in a million years understand how people can turn around and support Joe Biden.  It doesn't make any sense.  

 
Silver says polls don’t match forecasts this far out but as we get closer they will align 

Forecasts have the race a lot closer than polls atm
Yeah, it’s interesting to see the split between 538’s fundamentals-only and polls-only projections. Their fundamentals are super favorable for Trump, and would project him to win every red state from 2016 + NV, MN, and NH. Polls-only shows Biden ahead in all of Hillary’s states plus MI, WI, PA, NC, FL, AZ, and OH. As we get closer to November 3 and the model becomes more reliant on polls, Trump’s odds are going to suffer. 

 
I empathize with the critiques of Trump.  I really do.  But I'll never in a million years understand how people can turn around and support Joe Biden.  It doesn't make any sense.  
Well Ren, from your POV how do you feel about a President who has twice spoken of domestic, US extrajudicial killings (once here on national tv, once at his rally the other night) as though it's a good thing? - I am not talking about mere mental lack of acuity (go for all the Biden comps you want there), we're talking about someone with an ideological, and sociopathological incapability with democracy itself and yes emotional instability.  - There is like this whole conversation about 3rd parties and "quasi-oligarchy" that 2015 me would have with you, but that is way behind the practical, cold, hard truth of who this individual is. At a minimum he should not be near nuclear codes, and no I can't say that about Biden.

 
Well Ren, from your POV how do you feel about a President who has twice spoken of domestic, US extrajudicial killings (once here on national tv, once at his rally the other night) as though it's a good thing? - I am not talking about mere mental lack of acuity (go for all the Biden comps you want there), we're talking about someone with an ideological, and sociopathological incapability with democracy itself and yes emotional instability.  - There is like this whole conversation about 3rd parties and "quasi-oligarchy" that 2015 me would have with you, but that is way behind the practical, cold, hard truth of who this individual is. At a minimum he should not be near nuclear codes, and no I can't say that about Biden.
Like drone strikes killing American citizens?

 
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I empathize with the critiques of Trump.  I really do.  But I'll never in a million years understand how people can turn around and support Joe Biden.  It doesn't make any sense.  
B/c a lot of us don't plan on pissing away our vote on a third party, all of which I have significant disagreements with, as well as flawed candidates?   Your choice for POTUS is Trump, Biden, or waste your vote making a statement that no one will  care about.   

 
B/c a lot of us don't plan on pissing away our vote on a third party, all of which I have significant disagreements with, as well as flawed candidates?   Your choice for POTUS is Trump, Biden, or waste your vote making a statement that no one will  care about.   
When confronted with two unequal evils, choose the lesser. Not building rockets here.

 
Anyone watch the trump town hall?  Our fears about Biden making a fool of himself by speaking jibberish will be offset.  What a disaster Trump is.   

 
When confronted with two unequal evils, choose the lesser. Not building rockets here.
There is no doubt is any other election Biden would be dismissed as a joke.  All of us watching him know something is wrong. But these are the last two standing so we have to choose one or not vote for either. 

 
There is no doubt is any other election Biden would be dismissed as a joke.  All of us watching him know something is wrong. But these are the last two standing so we have to choose one or not vote for either. 
There’s something way more wrong with President Trump.

Terrible. Especially this year. An old white guy? Again? One who’s older? And one who was not super sharp at his peak, which was awhile ago. We’ve got other candidates who are BIPOC and female and the Dems picked an old white guy to run against a guy stuck in the 1980s.

Brilliant.

 
And the porn star. I'm not talking morals, I'm talking crime. Not to mention using the DOJ as his personal lawyers to fight a defamation-based-on-rape personal lawsuit that's currently underway.

Hopefully fairly closely to normally ethical. 
Not sure what normally ethical means, but seems like much of this is fairly close to "Presidential normal" unfortunately.

JFK - countless women companions in the White House and elsewhere.  In her book, Mimi Beardsley admits that JFK got her drunk on daiquiris, led her to an empty bedroom in the WH and had his way with her.    She also indicated he told her to have oral sex with his aides while he watched.  Reportedly, JFK had white house staff provide her with a referral for an abortion.   She was one of many well documented 'something on the side' things for Kennedy

LBJ pulled his namesake out in front of reporters questioning him about Vietnam.   Plenty of women years later claimed he would grope them or touch them in the WH.   He bragged that he had forgotten more women that he slept with than JFK bagged. 

Ellen Rometsch claims that Gerald Ford was actually d*(*'ing her while he was serving on the Warren Commission, and that J Edgar Hoover used secretly recorded tapes of their liaisons to blackmail Ford.

Clinton - no explanation necessary, set the bar at a new low, multiple accusations of rape, including one well known woman who was tweeting at him yesterday to remind him he raped her.

Last I checked, rape is illegal in all 50 states, so I guess we are still talking about crime.

Nobody on these boards wants to attempt to defend Trump on any of these accusations from women, but it doesn't seem to be a disqualifying event either.  

 
Anyone watch the trump town hall?  Our fears about Biden making a fool of himself by speaking jibberish will be offset.  What a disaster Trump is.   
The man is on tape saying he deliberately downplayed the severity of Covid-19 yet tonight when confronted by his own words, he said he "up-played it", and when the audience member attempted a follow-up question, Trump just talked over and shouted her down.

He once again attacked John McCain with lies, and called all of his ex-employees "disgruntled". 

 
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Well Ren, from your POV how do you feel about a President who has twice spoken of domestic, US extrajudicial killings (once here on national tv, once at his rally the other night) as though it's a good thing? - I am not talking about mere mental lack of acuity (go for all the Biden comps you want there), we're talking about someone with an ideological, and sociopathological incapability with democracy itself and yes emotional instability.  - There is like this whole conversation about 3rd parties and "quasi-oligarchy" that 2015 me would have with you, but that is way behind the practical, cold, hard truth of who this individual is. At a minimum he should not be near nuclear codes, and no I can't say that about Biden.
Not too good.  Notice that I said I agree with your comments about Trump.

My question was about Joe Biden.  How do the Iraq War, Patriot Act, mass incarceration, and militarized policing comport with your vision of democracy?  These are profoundly undemocratic systems that Biden helped build.  A war where we massacred innocent people, tortured people, blew their civilization to smithereens.  That's who Joe Biden is.  How could anyone ever forgive him?

And it feels like I'm being gaslighted to eternity when people act like he's a good man despite all this.  He's not better than Trump, he's worse than Trump.  He destroyed millions of people's lives and learned absolutely nothing from it.  Now he's being shoved down the country's throat, because they're counting on well-meaning people to convince the rest of us that there is no other choice.  

 
Anyone watch the trump town hall?  Our fears about Biden making a fool of himself by speaking jibberish will be offset.  What a disaster Trump is.   
Did not but followed enough on Twitter & saw enough lengthy clips to get a pretty good feel for it. You would think the Biden Team must have been behind goading him into doing it. That’s how badly incoherent he has looked. Stephanopoulos did a good job to interject, for instance, when he was gaslighting Obamacare and preexisting conditions.

Here’s what should not be missed, though. and this has been often since he came down those hideous escalators 5.25 years ago. He is a populist and he knows what George Costanza taught is 25+ years ago is still true: it’s not a lie, if you believe it.

After that first press conference, most people in my circles laughed it off. DOA before he even hit the campaign trail. It was inconceivable someone that far from normative values would be a serious challenger for the nomination.

A few months later I attended a multi-site, all day bat mitzvah. It’s not the kind of thing you can gracefully, speedily exit from. The dinner was at a sports complex repurposed at a military airfield, so the kids were having a blast. But the adults were more or less stuck with the 7 or so preassigned dinner guests at their table. Fortunately I practically won the seating lottery; the companion on my left was Leon Rodriguez, the outgoing director of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services. One of those enjoyable 3-4 hour long conversations in my life (when our daughters or wives weren’t dragging us into the dance floor.)

When the subject shifted from renewable energy & electric cars to the early front runners driving the narrative, we didn’t spend much time on Bernie. He had interesting ideas but even a year ahead of the convention it seemed the longest of long shots he could unseat the presumptive nominee. The more interesting question was whether anyone should take DJT seriously.

”It’s almost irrelevant,” Rodriguez told me. “If it’s not the Donald, it’ll be someone like him. He’s already succeeded in framing what this is about. He’s tapped into something guttural, he’s figured out how to resonate with people he has nothing in common with, and he has people thinking ‘welp, if he’s not one of us, at least he’s for us.’ He looks like the kind of rich person they think would be if they won the Powerball. Manhattan blue bloods never wanted anything to do with him, he’s not on any boards, he wouldn’t understand altruism if it hit him upside the head.“

“We Democrats think issues matter to voters. We think our nuance displays how thoughtful and thoroughly we have considered the best course of action. Our blind spot is we don’t get how that Northeastern groupthink comes across as Ivy League elitism in Peoria and Topeka.. But Republicans know it’s emotions, not issues, that will sway the masses.”

“So you drop these wedge issues into the public forum which, in reality, have little impact on middle Americans daily lives, and now all of a sudden defending the unborn, and the right to bear arms, and immigrants are overrunning the country...all that stuff stirs up a visceral reaction. Democrats are trying to win an emotional argument with intellect and facts. Trump is telling people ‘don’t let those snobs tell you what you should think. You see it, you know what’s wrong with this country.’ And it works. It works because the average voter doesn’t have the time or inclination to engage on issues. But if you can convey you get their frustrations and fears, then it doesn’t even matter if you actually solve problems. More than anything people just want a government that appears to stay out of their lives. They just want to go home at night and take care of their family. Why should they care about people who aren’t like them and live far away in big cities they abhor?”

That was the last week of August, 2015. Nailed it.

 
I empathize with the critiques of Trump.  I really do.  But I'll never in a million years understand how people can turn around and support Joe Biden.  It doesn't make any sense.  
I empathize with the critiques of Biden.  I really do.  But I'll never in a million years understand how people can turn around and support Donald Trump.  It doesn't make any sense.

Works even better that way.

Seriously, if nothing else, even if you hate every one of Biden's potential policies (and I understand why you do), don't you want someone reasonably competent at the wheel when something like COVID happens?  Ignore everything else; would Biden have handled COVID better and saved lives?  Yes or no.

 
I empathize with the critiques of Biden.  I really do.  But I'll never in a million years understand how people can turn around and support Donald Trump.  It doesn't make any sense.

Works even better that way.

Seriously, if nothing else, even if you hate every one of Biden's potential policies (and I understand why you do), don't you want someone reasonably competent at the wheel when something like COVID happens?  Ignore everything else; would Biden have handled COVID better and saved lives?  Yes or no.
Issues in regards about Biden himself aside......

Which man do people think will put together (and keep) a more competent network around him?  I know Trumpers like to float the "AOC as Minister of Money/Oprah as Director of the Interior/ Bill Ayers as the Secretary of Defense/ Bernie as the Business Czar" claims for Bidens Cabinet...... 

 
Not sure what normally ethical means, but seems like much of this is fairly close to "Presidential normal" unfortunately.

JFK - countless women companions in the White House and elsewhere.  In her book, Mimi Beardsley admits that JFK got her drunk on daiquiris, led her to an empty bedroom in the WH and had his way with her.    She also indicated he told her to have oral sex with his aides while he watched.  Reportedly, JFK had white house staff provide her with a referral for an abortion.   She was one of many well documented 'something on the side' things for Kennedy

LBJ pulled his namesake out in front of reporters questioning him about Vietnam.   Plenty of women years later claimed he would grope them or touch them in the WH.   He bragged that he had forgotten more women that he slept with than JFK bagged. 

Ellen Rometsch claims that Gerald Ford was actually d*(*'ing her while he was serving on the Warren Commission, and that J Edgar Hoover used secretly recorded tapes of their liaisons to blackmail Ford.

Clinton - no explanation necessary, set the bar at a new low, multiple accusations of rape, including one well known woman who was tweeting at him yesterday to remind him he raped her.

Last I checked, rape is illegal in all 50 states, so I guess we are still talking about crime.

Nobody on these boards wants to attempt to defend Trump on any of these accusations from women, but it doesn't seem to be a disqualifying event either.  
It amazes me how often Trump supporters do not understand this point.

Please go back and look at my original post. You incredibly raised the National Enquirer and I pointed out not only Trump's association with it but the fact he engaged in crimes with it, its director and his lawyer through it involving silencing McDougal, as well as the side hustle with Stormy Daniels. And I raised the use of the DOJ (!) as private lawyers to defend against a rape claim.

I'm not talking morals, I'm talking criminal behavior. Yes involving really disgusting behavior by a so-called husband but really crime and a continuing unethical behavior which is part of who he is.

 
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Ok so back to Biden, he’s finally doing a live event and mumbling about quartermasters. Anybody know who he’s talking to here?

https://twitter.com/ellamizrahi12/status/1305959027126480901?s=21
This is old guy starting to make a comp about the military, then rambling and making a comp about a department store and trailing off because he can't find the word.

This is an actual President who does not have and maybe never had actual analytical and literate capability to understand how diseases work and will likely get people killed as a result.

 
Did not but followed enough on Twitter & saw enough lengthy clips to get a pretty good feel for it. You would think the Biden Team must have been behind goading him into doing it. That’s how badly incoherent he has looked. Stephanopoulos did a good job to interject, for instance, when he was gaslighting Obamacare and preexisting conditions.

Here’s what should not be missed, though. and this has been often since he came down those hideous escalators 5.25 years ago. He is a populist and he knows what George Costanza taught is 25+ years ago is still true: it’s not a lie, if you believe it.

After that first press conference, most people in my circles laughed it off. DOA before he even hit the campaign trail. It was inconceivable someone that far from normative values would be a serious challenger for the nomination.

A few months later I attended a multi-site, all day bat mitzvah. It’s not the kind of thing you can gracefully, speedily exit from. The dinner was at a sports complex repurposed at a military airfield, so the kids were having a blast. But the adults were more or less stuck with the 7 or so preassigned dinner guests at their table. Fortunately I practically won the seating lottery; the companion on my left was Leon Rodriguez, the outgoing director of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services. One of those enjoyable 3-4 hour long conversations in my life (when our daughters or wives weren’t dragging us into the dance floor.)

When the subject shifted from renewable energy & electric cars to the early front runners driving the narrative, we didn’t spend much time on Bernie. He had interesting ideas but even a year ahead of the convention it seemed the longest of long shots he could unseat the presumptive nominee. The more interesting question was whether anyone should take DJT seriously.

”It’s almost irrelevant,” Rodriguez told me. “If it’s not the Donald, it’ll be someone like him. He’s already succeeded in framing what this is about. He’s tapped into something guttural, he’s figured out how to resonate with people he has nothing in common with, and he has people thinking ‘welp, if he’s not one of us, at least he’s for us.’ He looks like the kind of rich person they think would be if they won the Powerball. Manhattan blue bloods never wanted anything to do with him, he’s not on any boards, he wouldn’t understand altruism if it hit him upside the head.“

“We Democrats think issues matter to voters. We think our nuance displays how thoughtful and thoroughly we have considered the best course of action. Our blind spot is we don’t get how that Northeastern groupthink comes across as Ivy League elitism in Peoria and Topeka.. But Republicans know it’s emotions, not issues, that will sway the masses.”

“So you drop these wedge issues into the public forum which, in reality, have little impact on middle Americans daily lives, and now all of a sudden defending the unborn, and the right to bear arms, and immigrants are overrunning the country...all that stuff stirs up a visceral reaction. Democrats are trying to win an emotional argument with intellect and facts. Trump is telling people ‘don’t let those snobs tell you what you should think. You see it, you know what’s wrong with this country.’ And it works. It works because the average voter doesn’t have the time or inclination to engage on issues. But if you can convey you get their frustrations and fears, then it doesn’t even matter if you actually solve problems. More than anything people just want a government that appears to stay out of their lives. They just want to go home at night and take care of their family. Why should they care about people who aren’t like them and live far away in big cities they abhor?”

That was the last week of August, 2015. Nailed it.
This is well written and insightful.   Something we need more of in these boards. 

I would agree with most of what your table mate Rodriguez said, there is irony in this analysis.    If you go back and listen to Obama's speeches from '08, and to a lesser extent from '12, you overwhelmingly hear an appeal to raw emotion.    The linked acceptance speech says absolutely nothing about policy, intent or problem solving, it is entirely an appeal to emotion, and Obama was extremely successful in appealing to the masses based upon emotions, not issues.    He was an outstanding orator, and much of his success, similar to early B Clinton, was presenting himself as someone who could feel the emotions that others were feeling.  Look at the emotional reactions of those in the crowd at the speech in Grant Park.    Obama spoke emotionally about Selma, about a new puppy for his daughters, about calloused hands, about stories, about destiny, about timeless creeds, but not a single word about issues.    He elicited a lot of warmth and emotion from those listening to him, not introspection by intellectuals.     

But if you can convey you get their frustrations and fears, then it doesn’t even matter if you actually solve problems

 
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Ignore everything else; would Biden have handled COVID better and saved lives?  Yes or no.
Not enough to warrant voting for the damage he will do to people.  Biden told people to go vote for him in the middle of a pandemic.  There is no such thing as “not at risk of being exposed to covid.”  The best case scenario is that he might encourage people to wear masks, then continue to lay out crumbs for people that are hurting just like Trump is doing.  More trillion dollar “relief” packages for banks & corporations, more war, more environmental collapse.  

Flint was another public health crisis that Biden/Obama oversaw.  The Republican governor was poisoning Flint residents with lead.  What did the Obama administration do?  Obama went down to Flint and did damage control PR stunts for their criminal governor.  Flint residents were appalled.  To this day they still do not have clean water.  

Compare covid-19 to the damage that the Iraq War- which Joe Biden was a huge supporter of- did to the Middle East.  Over 1 million people killed due to the war on terror according to a survey reported on by Reuters, 37 million people displaced, millions of lives ruined.  This was a gratuitous crime against humanity on an unimaginable scale.  There is no plane of reality where Joe Biden could sponsor this and be considered a “decent man”.  That’s what Joe Biden supporters are- they are Pro-Iraq War Democrats.  

The entire value proposition for Joe Biden is that Trump is horrible, Biden is less worse, and this is my only choice.  But this assumes that I see Biden as an ally rather than a categorical enemy like Trump.  At least Trump doesn’t have millions of people gaslighting us about what a ‘decent guy’ he is and how he’s going to ‘restore norms’ to the WH.  

 
ren hoek said:
At least Trump doesn’t have millions of people gaslighting us about what a ‘decent guy’ he is and how he’s going to ‘restore norms’ to the WH.
I disagree with this.  On a daily basis, Trump falsely states "nobody has done more for insert topic here than me".

 
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spodog said:
This is well written and insightful.   Something we need more of in these boards. 

I would agree with most of what your table mate Rodriguez said, there is irony in this analysis.    If you go back and listen to Obama's speeches from '08, and to a lesser extent from '12, you overwhelmingly hear an appeal to raw emotion.    The linked acceptance speech says absolutely nothing about policy, intent or problem solving, it is entirely an appeal to emotion, and Obama was extremely successful in appealing to the masses based upon emotions, not issues.    He was an outstanding orator, and much of his success, similar to early B Clinton, was presenting himself as someone who could feel the emotions that others were feeling.  Look at the emotional reactions of those in the crowd at the speech in Grant Park.    Obama spoke emotionally about Selma, about a new puppy for his daughters, about calloused hands, about stories, about destiny, about timeless creeds, but not a single word about issues.    He elicited a lot of warmth and emotion from those listening to him, not introspection by intellectuals.     

But if you can convey you get their frustrations and fears, then it doesn’t even matter if you actually solve problems
Let's compare and contrast, shall we?

Yes, Clinton felt your pain, there's no question - genuine or not - it was something that really resonated with voters. In subsequent years we came to realize he's a weasel, a cad, and rather lawyerly. I didn't inhale, it depends on what your definition of is is, felatio is not sexual relations, et al. Guileful delosury is no way to go through life and it def won't play in Peoria.  

No doubt Obama displayed a similar ability to emote. Compassion and empathy are thought of as authentic and genuine expressions which are not easily faked. To the younger generations, particularly millennials, nothing matters more than authenticity. What exactly was Obama trying to convey, where was the connection with the intended audience? It was a call to higher ideals, classic symbolism of what makes our country great. Inalienable rights, endearing moments that touch a chord, judeo-christian work ethic, the grave responsibility of exceptionalism, beliefs which define who we are as a collective.

Let's set that alongside Mr. Trump. Down the escalator turned out to be an apt metaphor for the journey he has taken us on.

"And, I can tell, some of the candidates, they went in. They didn’t know the air-conditioner didn’t work. They sweated like dogs.

They didn’t know the room was too big, because they didn’t have anybody there. How are they going to beat ISIS? I don’t think it’s gonna happen.

:oldunsure:

Our country is in serious trouble. We don’t have victories anymore. We used to have victories, but we don’t have them. When was the last time anybody saw us beating, let’s say, China in a trade deal? They kill us. I beat China all the time. All the time.

When did we beat Japan at anything? They send their cars over by the millions, and what do we do? When was the last time you saw a Chevrolet in Tokyo? It doesn’t exist, folks. They beat us all the time.

Thank you. It’s true, and these are the best and the finest. When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting. And it only makes common sense. It only makes common sense. They’re sending us not the right people."

As Bush 43 correctly called it, then we got more of this weird stuff on Day One:

"At the center of this movement is a crucial conviction -- that a nation exists to serve its citizens. Americans want great schools for their children, safe neighborhoods for their families and good jobs for themselves.

These are just and reasonable demands of righteous people and a righteous public. But for too many of our citizens, a different reality exists. Mothers and children trapped in poverty in our inner cities, rusted out factories scattered like tombstones across the landscape of our nation, an education system flush with cash but which leaves our young and beautiful students deprived of all knowledge. And the crime, and the gangs, and the drugs that have stolen too many lives and robbed our country of so much unrealized potential. This American carnage stops right here and stops right now.

For many decades, we've enriched foreign industry at the expense of American industry, subsidized the armies of other countries while allowing for the very sad depletion of our military.

And spent trillions and trillions of dollars overseas while America's infrastructure has fallen into disrepair and decay."

ASIDE: How many times did we have infrastructure week in 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020. Still no meaningful legislation to address this.

More recently, the first speech of the RNC, which set the tone:

"TRUMP IS THE BODYGUARD OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION. TRUMP WAS ELECTED TO PROTECT OUR FAMILIES FROM THE VENGEFUL MOB THAT SEEKS TO DESTROY OUR WAY OF LIFE, OUR NEIGHBORHOODS, SCHOOLS, CHURCHES, AND VALUES. PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS ELECTED TO DEFEND THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE. THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE MEANS YOU FOLLOW THE LAW. YOU WORK HARD. YOU HONOR GOD. YOU RAISE YOUR KIDS WITH STRONG VALUES. AND YOU WORK TO CREATE A CIVIL SOCIETY. THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE MEANS YOU SPEAK YOUR MIND WITHOUT RETRIBUTION. WITHOUT BEING KICKED OFF SOCIAL MEDIA BY A SELF-RIGHTEOUS CENSOR IN SILICON VALLEY. IT MEANS YOU CAN FREELY PRACTICE YOUR RELIGION AND THAT CHURCH IS MORE ESSENTIAL THAN A CASINO. IT MEANS THAT WE JUDGE PEOPLE ON THEIR ACTIONS NOT ON THEIR IMMUTABLE CHARACTERISTICS. THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE IS BEING DISMANTLED BY -- DISMANTLED BY A GROUP OF DECEITFUL, BITTER, VENGEFUL ACTIVISTS WHO HAVE NEVER BUILT ANYTHING IN THEIR LIVES. THEY HAVE US LOCKING UP PASS TORS WHILE RELEASING VIOLENT CRIMINALS FROM PRISON. WE ARE KIBBLINGING DOCTORS OFF SOCIAL MEDIA YET PROMOTING CHINESE STATE FUNDED PROPAGANDA ON MAJOR TECH PLATFORMS. THIS ELECTION IS THE MOST CRITICAL SINCE 1860 WHEN A MAN NAMED LINCOLN WAS ELECTED TO PRESERVE THE UNION FROM DISINTEGRATION. THIS ELECTION IS NOT JUST THE MOST IMPORTANT OF OUR LIFETIME, IT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT SINCE THE PRESERVATION OF THE REPUBLIC IN 1865. BY RE-ELECTING TRUMP WE WILL ENSURE THAT OUR KIDS ARE RAISED TO LOVE OUR COUNTRY AND RESPECT ITS FOUNDING FATHERS. NOT TAUGHT TO HATE OR BE ASHAMED OF THEM. WE WILL BUILD MONUMENTS TO HEROES NOT BURN DOWN OUR CITIES."

Like Obama, there is a consistent approach to appeal to raw emotion. But which emotions? "The Better Nature of Our Angels," as Lincoln called it in his Second Inaugural Address? American ideals which have framed our purpose? Trump's announcement signaled he would lead the party into a brand of nativism unseen within mainstream politics since the 1850s No Nothing movement. His first speech as PotUS presented a bleak, post-apocalyptic America on it's dying legs. Never before (at least since Andy Johnson's rambling drunken diatribe) had American's leader painted such a dark picture of the country. Trump foreshadowed his authoritarian inclination at the previous summer's convention - "I am your voice. I alone can fix it." - and struck an ominous tone on the steps of the capital: "At the bedrock of our politics will be a total allegiance to the United States of America”, rebuking the tradition of pluralism and patriotic dissent that has been a defining characteristic of American democracy. He and his partisan supporters have shown little interest in ever trying to unify the country or push for broad appeal. Their America which they wish to protect is for their suburban way of life, they appeal to fear of gangs and violence and unrest, hoards of immigrants caravaning through Central America and Mexico to come and destroy our way of life. They elicit visceral hatred.

I could go on, but there could not be a more stark contrast. Ideals and lofty aspirations vs anxiety and trepidation. Ideas versus negativity. Freedom versus preservation.

48 days until the most important election of our lifetime.

 
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Sorry if posted already...

"Scientific American has never endorsed a presidential candidate in our 175-year history—until now. The 2020 election is literally a matter of life and death. We urge you to vote for health, science and Joe Biden for President."

 
Let's compare and contrast, shall we?

Yes, Clinton felt your pain, there's no question - genuine or not - it was something that really resonated with voters. In subsequent years we came to realize he's a weasel, a cad, and rather lawyerly. I didn't inhale, it depends on what your definition of is is, felatio is not sexual relations, et al. Guileful delosury is no way to go through life and it def won't play in Peoria.  

No doubt Obama displayed a similar ability to emote. Compassion and empathy are thought of as authentic and genuine expressions which are not easily faked. To the younger generations, particularly millennials, nothing matters more than authenticity. What exactly was Obama trying to convey, where was the connection with the intended audience? It was a call to higher ideals, classic symbolism of what makes our country great. Inalienable rights, endearing moments that touch a chord, judeo-christian work ethic, the grave responsibility of exceptionalism, beliefs which define who we are as a collective.

Let's set that alongside Mr. Trump. Down the escalator turned out to be an apt metaphor for the journey he has taken us on.

"And, I can tell, some of the candidates, they went in. They didn’t know the air-conditioner didn’t work. They sweated like dogs.

They didn’t know the room was too big, because they didn’t have anybody there. How are they going to beat ISIS? I don’t think it’s gonna happen.

:oldunsure:

Our country is in serious trouble. We don’t have victories anymore. We used to have victories, but we don’t have them. When was the last time anybody saw us beating, let’s say, China in a trade deal? They kill us. I beat China all the time. All the time.

When did we beat Japan at anything? They send their cars over by the millions, and what do we do? When was the last time you saw a Chevrolet in Tokyo? It doesn’t exist, folks. They beat us all the time.

Thank you. It’s true, and these are the best and the finest. When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting. And it only makes common sense. It only makes common sense. They’re sending us not the right people."

As Bush 43 correctly called it, then we got more of this weird stuff on Day One:

"At the center of this movement is a crucial conviction -- that a nation exists to serve its citizens. Americans want great schools for their children, safe neighborhoods for their families and good jobs for themselves.

These are just and reasonable demands of righteous people and a righteous public. But for too many of our citizens, a different reality exists. Mothers and children trapped in poverty in our inner cities, rusted out factories scattered like tombstones across the landscape of our nation, an education system flush with cash but which leaves our young and beautiful students deprived of all knowledge. And the crime, and the gangs, and the drugs that have stolen too many lives and robbed our country of so much unrealized potential. This American carnage stops right here and stops right now.

For many decades, we've enriched foreign industry at the expense of American industry, subsidized the armies of other countries while allowing for the very sad depletion of our military.

And spent trillions and trillions of dollars overseas while America's infrastructure has fallen into disrepair and decay."

ASIDE: How many times did we have infrastructure week in 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020. Still no meaningful legislation to address this.

More recently, the first speech of the RNC, which set the tone:

"TRUMP IS THE BODYGUARD OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION. TRUMP WAS ELECTED TO PROTECT OUR FAMILIES FROM THE VENGEFUL MOB THAT SEEKS TO DESTROY OUR WAY OF LIFE, OUR NEIGHBORHOODS, SCHOOLS, CHURCHES, AND VALUES. PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS ELECTED TO DEFEND THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE. THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE MEANS YOU FOLLOW THE LAW. YOU WORK HARD. YOU HONOR GOD. YOU RAISE YOUR KIDS WITH STRONG VALUES. AND YOU WORK TO CREATE A CIVIL SOCIETY. THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE MEANS YOU SPEAK YOUR MIND WITHOUT RETRIBUTION. WITHOUT BEING KICKED OFF SOCIAL MEDIA BY A SELF-RIGHTEOUS CENSOR IN SILICON VALLEY. IT MEANS YOU CAN FREELY PRACTICE YOUR RELIGION AND THAT CHURCH IS MORE ESSENTIAL THAN A CASINO. IT MEANS THAT WE JUDGE PEOPLE ON THEIR ACTIONS NOT ON THEIR IMMUTABLE CHARACTERISTICS. THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE IS BEING DISMANTLED BY -- DISMANTLED BY A GROUP OF DECEITFUL, BITTER, VENGEFUL ACTIVISTS WHO HAVE NEVER BUILT ANYTHING IN THEIR LIVES. THEY HAVE US LOCKING UP PASS TORS WHILE RELEASING VIOLENT CRIMINALS FROM PRISON. WE ARE KIBBLINGING DOCTORS OFF SOCIAL MEDIA YET PROMOTING CHINESE STATE FUNDED PROPAGANDA ON MAJOR TECH PLATFORMS. THIS ELECTION IS THE MOST CRITICAL SINCE 1860 WHEN A MAN NAMED LINCOLN WAS ELECTED TO PRESERVE THE UNION FROM DISINTEGRATION. THIS ELECTION IS NOT JUST THE MOST IMPORTANT OF OUR LIFETIME, IT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT SINCE THE PRESERVATION OF THE REPUBLIC IN 1865. BY RE-ELECTING TRUMP WE WILL ENSURE THAT OUR KIDS ARE RAISED TO LOVE OUR COUNTRY AND RESPECT ITS FOUNDING FATHERS. NOT TAUGHT TO HATE OR BE ASHAMED OF THEM. WE WILL BUILD MONUMENTS TO HEROES NOT BURN DOWN OUR CITIES."

Like Obama, there is a consistent approach to appeal to raw emotion. But which emotions? "The Better Nature of Our Angels," as Lincoln called it in his Second Inaugural Address? American ideals which have framed our purpose? Trump's announcement signaled he would lead the party into a brand of nativism unseen within mainstream politics since the 1850s No Nothing movement. His first speech as PotUS presented a bleak, post-apocalyptic America on it's dying legs. Never before (at least since Andy Johnson's rambling drunken diatribe) had American's leader painted such a dark picture of the country. Trump foreshadowed his authoritarian inclination at the previous summer's convention - "I am your voice. I alone can fix it." - and struck an ominous tone on the steps of the capital: "At the bedrock of our politics will be a total allegiance to the United States of America”, rebuking the tradition of pluralism and patriotic dissent that has been a defining characteristic of American democracy. He and his partisan supporters have shown little interest in ever trying to unify the country or push for broad appeal. Their America which they wish to protect is for their suburban way of life, they appeal to fear of gangs and violence and unrest, hoards of immigrants caravaning through Central America and Mexico to come and destroy our way of life. They elicit visceral hatred.

I could go on, but there could not be a more stark contrast. Ideals and lofty aspirations vs anxiety and trepidation. Ideas versus negativity. Freedom versus preservation.

48 days until the most important election of our lifetime.
A lot to unpack here. 

Clinton  sounds like we agree he is not authentic, is a fake, and did a lot to give lawyers an even worse reputation.    Basically, he's a politician.

Obama  It seems you are agreeing he played to emotions without much policy or true change to back it up for having served 8 years, but not sure.    Obamacare is his signature legislative legacy, and it would seem to have at best extremely mixed results as it was still being attacked by both the left and the right in '16 and again in '20.    It's unclear who at this stage who actually looks on it fondly, as the drug companies and insurance companies were quite successful at shaping it to their advantage, even with the deployment of high risk pools.

not sure about all the descriptors that were placed into the Obama summary.    Judeo-Christian work ethic?    this is misplaced in a number of way.    Obama's two administrations broke down trust between Israel and the US in many significant ways.     Both Clinton and GW admins had worked hard at furthering US-Israel alliances, and almost all of that progress was destroyed during Obama's time in office, from George Mitchell's failures as envoy around the Palestinian settlement issues to the outward embrace of even extremist Muslim ideologies.    As for the J-C work ethic element, not clear at all how you are associating that to Obama.    If anything, Trump seems to have found a way to have robbed what used to be hallmarks of almost every democratic contender for national office and have pulled them under a wing of the Republican party.     Manufacturing labor, farmers, union workers, even many police union leaders, used to line up out of reflex behind the Democratic party presidential candidate, but not any more.     Peoria and Topeka indeed used to be filled with blue collar democrats that have recognized the party left them.   They haven't changed, they still believe in the Judeo-Christian work ethic, but they have been belittled and looked down upon (clinging to their guns and bibles) too many times and so their way of life has now been given fresh respect.   They haven't been "red pilled", they simply are doing the same things they've always done . . .  raising their kids, contributing to their local community, staying married, paying their taxes and trying to make things better for the next generation. 

For all the Trump quotes, yes, you've cited a dozen out of thousands elicit a visceral reaction among many.    Peter Thiel's 2016 reminder to "not take Trump literally, but take him seriously" seems to have been forgotten by more and more people over the last 4 years.  

Many of those quotes illustrate that Trump see's life as a competition.    It's him vs whoever, all the time.   He's a narcissist.    You don't have to recant 100 quotes to see this, but, again, that has been on display since the 1970's and 1980's, it is nothing new.    Most of this stuff like the New York Times running a 14 page in depth report into Trump's father's real estate dealings and hardball tactics with contractors and playing loose with a tax code that has always been oriented to favor property ownership last about 2 minutes in the national attention span because it is all well known stuff that has been in the public eye for decades.     Time magazine wants America to be outraged about it.     NYT wants outrage.   USA Today wants outrage, and then they are all amazed when no one pays attention to their sensationalist brand of journalism.   Partly because trust in print and broadcast media has never been lower and partly because it's all old news.     Go try and write an op-ed on how outrageous it is that the 1919 White Sox threw the World Series.    You won't find many who are outraged or will even read it because everyone is already aware. 

The outrage building momentum into the election isn't from a Trump inaugural talking about American Carnage, it's from actual carnage taking place in the streets all year long. 

Maybe everyone needs walk away from the hate, just chill and listen to Ricky Rebel more:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02fwkmgqfNk   

 
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ren hoek said:
I empathize with the critiques of Trump.  I really do.  But I'll never in a million years understand how people can turn around and support Joe Biden.  It doesn't make any sense.  
:goodposting:

 
ren hoek said:
 The best case scenario is that he might encourage people to wear masks, then continue to lay out crumbs for people that are hurting just like Trump is doing.  
Except that is not what Trump is doing.

"Alot of people think that masks don't do any good." 

What people asked George Stef?

"Waiters. That's who."

Tick, tick, tick. 48 days and counting. From the White House to the Big House wearing his favorite color.

 
The Future Champs said:
B/c a lot of us don't plan on pissing away our vote on a third party, all of which I have significant disagreements with, as well as flawed candidates?   Your choice for POTUS is Trump, Biden, or waste your vote making a statement that no one will  care about.   
but this argument is just based on your perception that getting Trump out of office is worth holding your nose, closing your eyes and convincing yourself that electing a pathetically awful candidate like Joe instead is actually a good thing for American citizens. 

I mean, I understand why people are buying that line of thinking, but sorry man, I'm not about to endorse and enable the continual stupidity and hypocrisy of the Democratic party by doing that. TBH I'd rather throw away my vote on a pointless statement than on one of these two geeks.

 

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