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***Official Joe Biden Campaign Thread (4 Viewers)

tommyGunZ said:
Republicans voters and liberals not voting for HRC got Trump elected.  Don’t get it twisted.  
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Actually, the Hillary Clinton campaign promoted Donald Trump in the Republican primaries, and got him billions of dollars in free media coverage way beyond what his poll numbers warranted at the time.  She also conspired with her political party to subvert a progressive which exit polls suggest could have beaten Donald Trump.  

https://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/

So she helped elect Trump in a very direct way, perhaps more than any other single person.  Let’s not rewrite history here.  

 
timschochet said:
But @Widbil83 wrote that Biden has been an “absolute disaster already.” That I have not seen. Which is why I asked for specific examples. 
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The guy has been in Washington since 1973 and his opening campaign theme wasn’t about his grand achievements (wonder why), it was repeating lies about President Trump in Charlottesville.

He thought it was a good idea to call Anita Hill for some reason, who said she wouldn’t say support him and noted he refused to apologize. 

He wants middle ground on climate change and still has the same stance on marijuana already angering progressives.  If he’s already making the base he needs to get elected mad it will probably only get worse.  Remember, just being anti-Trump isn’t enough despite what you guys here think. 

Like the op I quoted said, his constant bumbling has seemed to only get worse since the last time we saw him on the public stage.

Four more candidates have entered the race since he has gotten in.  If he was such a lock this wouldn’t be happening.

Don’t misunderstand here, I fully support Joe Biden as the Democrat candidate from a Trump supporters perspective.  I won’t say he has no shot of beating President Trump, but Sanders has a much better chance (I believe he could actually win). 

 
Widbil83 said:
The guy has been in Washington since 1973 and his opening campaign theme wasn’t about his grand achievements (wonder why), it was repeating lies about President Trump in Charlottesville.

He thought it was a good idea to call Anita Hill for some reason, who said she wouldn’t say support him and noted he refused to apologize. 

He wants middle ground on climate change and still has the same stance on marijuana already angering progressives.  If he’s already making the base he needs to get elected mad it will probably only get worse.  Remember, just being anti-Trump isn’t enough despite what you guys here think. 

Like the op I quoted said, his constant bumbling has seemed to only get worse since the last time we saw him on the public stage.

Four more candidates have entered the race since he has gotten in.  If he was such a lock this wouldn’t be happening.

Don’t misunderstand here, I fully support Joe Biden as the Democrat candidate from a Trump supporters perspective.  I won’t say he has no shot of beating President Trump, but Sanders has a much better chance (I believe he could actually win). 
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I see. 

Well it will come as no surprise that I disagree with you on almost all of this. But obviously my own record as a prognosticator is not so good, so who knows? It is interesting to me that, based on all reporting, President Trump strongly disagrees with your last point, as he regards Biden as his most dangerous opponent.  But then again his prognostication skills are not great either; perhaps you’re better than both of us. 

That being said, my question to you was not why you think Biden will lose, or what problems you think he’ll have winning the nomination; it was why you believe that he has already been an “absolute embarrassment”. Even if I agreed with your analysis of the examples you offered (I certainly don’t) you still failed to live up to that claim. 

 
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Widbil83 said:
it was repeating lies about President Trump in Charlottesville.
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This is sad. I'm so wide open to any Dem or non-Trump GOPer running. I may even volunteer in 20, for whoever however. But get your facts right. Biden's announcement video was filled with the kind of patriotic themes that should unite Americans of all stripes. But I do think it's fair to say that if Trump tells you something you believe it.

 
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In Biden I see another election where small majorities give the EC win to Trump again. I think in this case especially, being the Biden run, the fact so many people who have no shot at the presidency but could've been Senators I think hurts him if they dont change course. He's going to need a good downticket I think so people are excited to come out. I dont think he can drum up that passion.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
This is sad. I'm so wide open to any Dem or non-Trump GOPer running. I may even volunteer in 20, for whoever however. But get your facts right. Biden's announcement video was filled with the kind of patriotic themes that should unite Americans of all stripes. But I do think it's fair to say that if Trump tells you something you believe it.
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To be honest this voter is completely over the flag waving and leading with our values. That video said nothing. It looked like it was made several cycles ago. You need to say something. If you have nothing to say stay home.

 
NCCommish said:
To be honest this voter is completely over the flag waving and leading with our values. That video said nothing. It looked like it was made several cycles ago. You need to say something. If you have nothing to say stay home.
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I made two points and that's one of them, and I get it. But the main point, that what was said about Charlottesville is true, I stand by. I think just speaking the truth is a controversial subject for some Trump supporters these days.

 
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Regular reminder that not one person here or anywhere else has the slightest ####ing clue how this election will play out.

Hillary was thought to be more electable than Obama in '08.  This problem was supposed to be exacerbated when the GOP nominated the eminently electable John McCain. And once he got everyone on the right enthused by picking the, young, telegenic, headline-stealing VP nominee Sarah Palin.  People were fired up!

In 2012 it was Romney's turn to be the electable one. The GOP breathed a sigh of relief when he cruised to the nomination over extremists like Rick Santorum (who won Iowa) and others.  And everyone expected that their candidate would be able to take advantage of GOP enthusiasm post-Obamacare and Obama's low approval ratings to cruise an easy victory, especially once they paired him with Tea Party/College Republican darling Paul Ryan.

2016?  Well, everyone knows how the electability stuff played out on the GOP side.

In conclusion:

1. Remember that Twitter/social media is not real life

2. Vote for whoever you think would be the best president in the Dem primary, electability aside

3. Whoever wins the Dem primary would be a massive upgrade from Trump; the differences are only in degree. So work like hell to get them elected and vote for them, for the good of the country, even they weren't your first choice (they probably won't be)

4. Remember that nobody knows ####, including people who study voting patterns down to the precinct level as a career. Even those people can't offer any more then conflicted semi-educated guesses about how this will all play out, and your opinion carries far less weight than their opinion.

 
From twitter - 

In New Hampshire, Joe Biden predicts that once President Trump is out of office, Republicans will have “an epiphany” and work with Democrats toward consensus.

--

That's so incredibly dumb. I hope he doesn't really think that's going to happen.

 
whoknew said:
From twitter - 

In New Hampshire, Joe Biden predicts that once President Trump is out of office, Republicans will have “an epiphany” and work with Democrats toward consensus.

--

That's so incredibly dumb. I hope he doesn't really think that's going to happen.
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Depends on the issue. Not on immigration. Not on spending. Not on taxes.

But on free trade? The role of NATO? Our international commitments? A rejection of Trump's isolationism and extremism? Maybe. I sure hope so.

 
timschochet said:
Depends on the issue. Not on immigration. Not on spending. Not on taxes.

But on free trade? The role of NATO? Our international commitments? A rejection of Trump's isolationism and extremism? Maybe. I sure hope so.
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Mitch McConnell has already said if he has the Senate and he's the leader everything the Democrats want to do is Dead on Arrival so no they are not going to have a Kumbaya moment.

 
NCCommish said:
Mitch McConnell has already said if he has the Senate and he's the leader everything the Democrats want to do is Dead on Arrival so no they are not going to have a Kumbaya moment.
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You didn’t really address the points I listed, almost all of which McConnell agrees with Biden much more than he does with Trump. 

But- in 2020 there are 25 Republican senate seats up for grabs and only 10 Democrat. I think the odds are good that the Democrats get the majority anyhow. 

 
timschochet said:
You didn’t really address the points I listed, almost all of which McConnell agrees with Biden much more than he does with Trump. 

But- in 2020 there are 25 Republican senate seats up for grabs and only 10 Democrat. I think the odds are good that the Democrats get the majority anyhow. 
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Actually there are only a handful.of those Republican Senate seats that look at all winnable and so far the Democrats that would seem to have the best shot at them want to run losing bids for the Presidency instead.

 
NCCommish said:
Actually there are only a handful.of those Republican Senate seats that look at all winnable and so far the Democrats that would seem to have the best shot at them want to run losing bids for the Presidency instead.
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Well you have a good point there. But there’s still time. 

 
I don’t understand how people still humor the bipartisan ‘getting things done’ stuff.  It seems all they manage to do is pass horrible legislation that makes people’s lives worse.  Congress has been wholly captured by special interests.  Whatever Biden and McConnell find it in themselves to agree on is probably a total monstrosity.  

Then they get to say they “reached across the aisle”.  It’s so tired and transparent.  

 
Well, political parties have a tendency to work a lot like crooked promoters. For example, take how the Dems are now operating in Congress or how the Republicans did things with Obama in the White House. Nancy Pelosi and the Dems in the U.S. House are talking all progressive like the next incarnation of FDR or one of those Kennedy boys. And you can bet they’ll be sending the Republican-controlled Senate every kind of progressive legislation they can dream up; environmental protections, end the government shutdown legislation, campaign finance reform proposals, forgiveness of college debt bills, maybe even an improvement on health care like single payer, and let’s not forget new gun laws on top of all that. But in the end, we’ll get stuck with the status quo again.

I just hope you, their intended patsies, see this oil-patch-type scam for what it is. They send along such legislation because they know as long as Republicans control the Senate and White House it can’t pass, and therefore they don’t have to worry about upsetting their corporate and billionaire donor base by actually creating progressive change. They go through this pretend process so we voters will think Democrats really want significant change and therefore vote for them come 2020.

I know it sounds pretty cynical, but think about it. This cycle has been repeating itself for decades now.

Ask yourself this; when Dems controlled the House, the Senate and the White House just a few years back, did they push through any of these progressive things when they had the votes to actually pass them? No, they did not. And if Dems should take control of Congress and the White House in 2020, the one thing you can count on is that all these progressive pieces of legislation will either disappear or get severely watered down.

Same thing with Republicans. Before they got control of everything they actually took 70 votes to repeal the ACA knowing that Obama would just veto their efforts and that they didn’t have the votes to override him.

But when they actually won control of everything in 2016, they didn’t pass any of the things they’d promised like repealing the ACA, building a wall or balancing the budget. But now that control of Congress is once again split, they are once again talking a big game knowing it will go nowhere and they can blame the other side.

Point being, all the posturing and deception practiced by both parties in order to keep their corporate cash flowing while fooling their poorly informed base of constituents works perfectly well until they accidentally hit oil, which in the political realm equates to taking control of both chambers and the executive branch. That’s when the truth is exposed and it’s never pretty.

Colorado Dems are in tough spot — they control everything

 
Widbil83 said:
The guy has been in Washington since 1973 and his opening campaign theme wasn’t about his grand achievements (wonder why), it was repeating lies about President Trump in Charlottesville.

He thought it was a good idea to call Anita Hill for some reason, who said she wouldn’t say support him and noted he refused to apologize. 

He wants middle ground on climate change and still has the same stance on marijuana already angering progressives.  If he’s already making the base he needs to get elected mad it will probably only get worse.  Remember, just being anti-Trump isn’t enough despite what you guys here think. 

Like the op I quoted said, his constant bumbling has seemed to only get worse since the last time we saw him on the public stage.

Four more candidates have entered the race since he has gotten in.  If he was such a lock this wouldn’t be happening.

Don’t misunderstand here, I fully support Joe Biden as the Democrat candidate from a Trump supporters perspective.  I won’t say he has no shot of beating President Trump, but Sanders has a much better chance (I believe he could actually win). 
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If Sanders goes up against an incumbent - even Trump - the Democrats will lose like it’s 1984 again. 

 
NCCommish said:
Actually there are only a handful.of those Republican Senate seats that look at all winnable and so far the Democrats that would seem to have the best shot at them want to run losing bids for the Presidency instead.
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I’m hoping they just stay in long enough to transition to Senate. 

 
ren hoek said:
I know it sounds pretty cynical, but think about it. This cycle has been repeating itself for decades now.
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I think people have been missing the elasticity in the electorate for a while now. And I think pols have been taking the wrong lessons from their wins. 

 
ren hoek said:
Point being, all the posturing and deception practiced by both parties in order to keep their corporate cash flowing while fooling their poorly informed base of constituents works perfectly well until they accidentally hit oil, which in the political realm equates to taking control of both chambers and the executive branch. That’s when the truth is exposed and it’s never pretty.
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I personally think the people by and large want good, honest government. I’m not sure how to arrive at that, but I do think the people deserve it and they have a right to it.

 
Henry Ford said:
I’m hoping they just stay in long enough to transition to Senate. 
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I'm hoping they see the writing on the wall after the debates and make the right decision. If you are polling at 1% or 2% go find something else where you have a chance. This applies to a lot of people. You can run for the big chair later nothing wrong with being a senator for a while. 

 
Stealthycat said:
this is true 

the days of being able to reach across party lines are over ........... too much hate and separation of core party values
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Hard to tell. Obama was ready to make the big deal and exchange cuts in SS and Medicare to raise taxes. Republicans just moved the goalpost every time. I watch. Mitch McConnell explicitly stated they would never give O a thing. I can’t remember a time when Republicans didn’t run extreme scorched earth ethics free power politics. I mean can you name a time in the last 10 years they offered anything in the way of a concession on any significant policy? We didn’t even get our SC justice. Effective but I can’t think of a more democratically corrosive act like.....ever. 

 
NCCommish said:
I'm hoping they see the writing on the wall after the debates and make the right decision. If you are polling at 1% or 2% go find something else where you have a chance. This applies to a lot of people. You can run for the big chair later nothing wrong with being a senator for a while. 
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I think everybody these days looks at Obama in 2008 and Trump in 2016 and thinks “there’s no earning it over time anymore, no paying dues- you gotta just grab it while you can.” Maybe that’s true, or maybe those 2 were anomalies and we will return to Presidents being elected after long executive or legislative experience elsewhere. Hard to predict. 

 
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timschochet said:
I think everybody these days looks at Obama in 2008 and Trump in 2016 and thinks “there’s no earning it over time anymore, no paying dues- you gotta just grab it while you can.” Maybe that’s true, or maybe those 2 were anomalies and we will return to Presidents being elected after long executive or legislative experience elsewhere. Hard to predict. 
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The things is you got to be a little realistic. If you are polling that low and you stay in you're just burning money. If Beto would have gone after the Senate seat he wouldn't be getting dunked on  by the ladies of the View. If Castro had gone after that seat he'd be in a position to do something other than snipe at people who will be in long after he goes home. And that's just Texas. Same thing for Colorado. These guys have no shot at the big prize go get that Senate seat. Make a national name for yourself. Write a book. Come back in a couple cycles and give it another go.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Regular reminder that not one person here or anywhere else has the slightest ####ing clue how this election will play out.

Hillary was thought to be more electable than Obama in '08.  This problem was supposed to be exacerbated when the GOP nominated the eminently electable John McCain. And once he got everyone on the right enthused by picking the, young, telegenic, headline-stealing VP nominee Sarah Palin.  People were fired up!

In 2012 it was Romney's turn to be the electable one. The GOP breathed a sigh of relief when he cruised to the nomination over extremists like Rick Santorum (who won Iowa) and others.  And everyone expected that their candidate would be able to take advantage of GOP enthusiasm post-Obamacare and Obama's low approval ratings to cruise an easy victory, especially once they paired him with Tea Party/College Republican darling Paul Ryan.

2016?  Well, everyone knows how the electability stuff played out on the GOP side.

In conclusion:

1. Remember that Twitter/social media is not real life

2. Vote for whoever you think would be the best president in the Dem primary, electability aside

3. Whoever wins the Dem primary would be a massive upgrade from Trump; the differences are only in degree. So work like hell to get them elected and vote for them, for the good of the country, even they weren't your first choice (they probably won't be)

4. Remember that nobody knows ####, including people who study voting patterns down to the precinct level as a career. Even those people can't offer any more then conflicted semi-educated guesses about how this will all play out, and your opinion carries far less weight than their opinion.
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At this point it wouldn't shock me if Gilbert Gottfried is the next POTUS. 

 
These debates are going to be  :popcorn:   They are all going to trash Biden from the left and then hope to pivot back to the center if the strategy works.  

When is the first debate?

 
knowledge dropper said:
These debates are going to be  :popcorn:   They are all going to trash Biden from the left and then hope to pivot back to the center if the strategy works.  

When is the first debate?
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Bernie isn't going to pivot and it's unlikely Warren would or at least not much. Her policies she has endorsed aren't really pivotable. 

 
NCCommish said:
Bernie isn't going to pivot and it's unlikely Warren would or at least not much. Her policies she has endorsed aren't really pivotable. 
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Not only that, Bernie isn’t going to trash Biden. He will state his differences. But it will be all about policy. 

That’s one thing I love about Bernie despite my disagreeement with him on so many issues: he’s all class. 

 
timschochet said:
Not only that, Bernie isn’t going to trash Biden. He will state his differences. But it will be all about policy. 

That’s one thing I love about Bernie despite my disagreeement with him on so many issues: he’s all class. 
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Yeah but I bet it still gets reported as attacks on Biden.

 
tommyGunZ said:
Yes.  Do NOT signup.  Somehow I got on Biden’s list serv, and was getting a handful a day.  I finally unsubscribed a couple days ago.  
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LOL, at least it took them two days to find me.. Will persevere on the list til the event. The fact that they give you an option (in addition to Unsubscribe) to get fewer emails supports your experience about the volume!
Theme of the announcement/fundraising pitch is American values are under attack.
.

 
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timschochet said:
Not only that, Bernie isn’t going to trash Biden. He will state his differences. But it will be all about policy. 

That’s one thing I love about Bernie despite my disagreeement with him on so many issues: he’s all class. 
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He's already trashing Biden.  Come on tim.  

 
New head-to-head 2020 poll numbers in Pennsylvania via Quinnipiac:

Biden 53%, Trump 42%

Sanders 50%, Trump 43%

Warren 47%, Trump 44%

Buttigieg 45%, Trump 44%

Harris 45%, Trump 45%

Trump 46%, O'Rourke 44%

 
CentralPA said:
New head-to-head 2020 poll numbers in Pennsylvania via Quinnipiac:

Biden 53%, Trump 42%

Sanders 50%, Trump 43%

Warren 47%, Trump 44%

Buttigieg 45%, Trump 44%

Harris 45%, Trump 45%

Trump 46%, O'Rourke 44% 
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Trump is 42-45 in PA. The weird thing is that Biden and Sanders have name recognition, but even against the lesser knowns Trump's number doesn't shift much, and certainly not near 50.

 
CentralPA said:
New head-to-head 2020 poll numbers in Pennsylvania via Quinnipiac:

Biden 53%, Trump 42%

Sanders 50%, Trump 43%

Warren 47%, Trump 44%

Buttigieg 45%, Trump 44%

Harris 45%, Trump 45%

Trump 46%, O'Rourke 44%
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Well it's early. But you have to figure the top 3 would all do better on their own.

 
Henry Ford said:
If Sanders goes up against an incumbent - even Trump - the Democrats will lose like it’s 1984 again. 
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Past time for a new generation of leadership.  No Sanders, no Biden, probably not Warren, no Hickenlooper.  If only there were a Candidate, of education and experience, say the Army, private business, and then executive government experience who was say, I don't know, maybe 39ish.  someone who is not roused by criticism, no matter how banal. someone with the intellectual curiosity to learn new things, maybe a language.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Trump is 42-45 in PA. The weird thing is that Biden and Sanders have name recognition, but even against the lesser knowns Trump's number doesn't shift much, and certainly not near 50.
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Warren and below are considered within margin of error (4.2%). But there are probably enough "Anyone but Trump" votes in there to help offset name recognition a little.

 
CentralPA said:
New head-to-head 2020 poll numbers in Pennsylvania via Quinnipiac:

Biden 53%, Trump 42%

Sanders 50%, Trump 43%

Warren 47%, Trump 44%

Buttigieg 45%, Trump 44%

Harris 45%, Trump 45%

Trump 46%, O'Rourke 44%
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IMO, Pennsylvania is the single most important state in 2020. The winner of Pennsylvania will be our next President.

 
tommyGunZ said:
He's already trashing Biden.  Come on tim.  
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He hasn't gone after him personally he's been critical of his record. You know since that's how you differentiate yourself. If Biden is the nominee this will all be like a Sunday in the park 

 
NCCommish said:
He hasn't gone after him personally he's been critical of his record. You know since that's how you differentiate yourself. If Biden is the nominee this will all be like a Sunday in the park 
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He sent out a fundraising email about Biden accepting "big $ contributions from lobbyists".  That's not about Biden's record.  He's painting Joe in the same light he painted HRC, suggesting he's been bought off by Wall Street.  It's an attack on Joe's character and values.  It's the kind of attack that when you make it, your supporters can't just turn on a dime in the general and get past it.  

 
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tommyGunZ said:
He sent out a fundraising email about Biden accepting "big $ contributions from lobbyists".  That's not about Biden's record.  He's painting Joe in the same light he painted HRC, suggesting he's been bought off by Wall Street.  It's an attack on Joe's character and values.  It's the kind of attack that when you make it, your supporters can't just turn on a dime in the general and get past it.  
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Let's follow this:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/05/31/biden-launch-american-possibilities-pac/102363790/
 

Former Vice President Joe Biden will launch a political action committee called “American Possibilities” on Thursday, signaling he may still be considering a third presidential run
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And:

https://theintercept.com/2019/05/06/joe-biden-pac-coporate-special-interest-money-pledge/

American Possibilities does not appear to have followed the Obama contribution ban either.

The PAC’s lobbyist donors include:

John Breaux, a former Democratic senator from Louisiana and senior counsel at Squire Patton Boggs, is registered to represent the kingdom of Saudi Arabia. He’s also lobbied for health insurance giant UnitedHealth Group, Shell Oil, and aerospace company SpaceX.

Todd Webster, a senior vice president at Cornerstone Government Affairs, served as chief of staff to Biden’s successor, Sen. Chris Coons, D-Del. He lobbies for a handful of Fortune 500 companies, including Boeing, Citigroup, Google, Microsoft, and Cheniere Energy.

John Bentivoglio, a partner at Skadden Arps and former top Biden staffer on the Senate Judiciary Committee, is registered to lobby for Strongbridge Biopharma on drug-pricing issues.

Tonio Burgos, a longtime aide to New York Gov. Mario Cuomo who runs the lobbying and public affairs firm Tonio Burgos & Associates and has lobbied for Neurological Surgery, P.C.; his firm has also represented Team Select Home Care, a home health care provider.
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That's pointing out Biden's actions. Not an attack. 

 
tommyGunZ said:
It's absolutely an attack.  Bernie's campaign is implying that Biden is bought off by special interest money.  It has nothing to do with policy differences.  
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Horse crap. One of the key elements of Bernie Sanders is:
 

Well, we don’t want any part of that. Bernie’s not going to have a super PAC.

But what we do want to build is a Super PACK of supporters — the small percentage of people who give a monthly contribution to the campaign.
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Pointing out an explicit difference in Bernie's candidacy and the candidacy of another Democrat hopeful is no more an attack than pointing out the differences between Trump and Sanders on the environment. Biden's started a Super-PAC and accepted lobbyist donations. Biden kicked off his campaign thusly:
 

Mr Biden launched his campaign via video on Thursday morning. Hours later, the former six-term senator attended a fundraiser at the home of David Cohen, the chief lobbyist for Comcast, in a move that highlighted his urgent need to raise money after entering the field as the 20th contender, and particularly to demonstrate a strong fundraising total in the first few days. 
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https://www.ft.com/content/7dcd9164-67d0-11e9-9adc-98bf1d35a056

If Biden didn't want this difference pointed out, he could have made different choices. Now, it's no different than the college tuition plans, the approach to the environment or the myriad differences between the candidates. Some take lobbyist money. Some don't.

 
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