Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
He's the senile grandpa. Can't believe after four years this is the best they can find to run for President.
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***Official Joe Biden Campaign Thread (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
He's the senile grandpa. Can't believe after four years this is the best they can find to run for President.
ren hoek
Footballguy
Here is the Teachout piece that correctly calls out Biden’s corruption problems, how he’s 100% bought by financial/pharmaceutical/insurance lobbies and would absolutely get rolled by Trump: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/20/joe-biden-corruption-donald-trump
It’s total cowardice that Sanders would throw her under the bus for this. She’s right!
It’s total cowardice that Sanders would throw her under the bus for this. She’s right!
Democrats are trying to choose a candidate to beat Donald Trump, the most corrupt president in history. Some think nominating Joe Biden, a moderate white man who calls himself “Middle Class” Joe, makes sense.
But Biden has a big corruption problem and it makes him a weak candidate. I know it seems crazy, but a lot of the voters we need – independents and people who might stay home – will look at Biden and Trump and say: “They’re all dirty.”
It looks like “Middle Class” Joe has perfected the art of taking big contributions, then representing his corporate donors at the cost of middle- and working-class Americans. Converting campaign contributions into legislative favors and policy positions isn’t being “moderate”. It is the kind of transactional politics Americans have come to loathe.
There are three clear examples.
First, Biden’s support for finance over working-class Americans. His career was bankrolled by the credit card industry. He delivered for it by spearheading a bankruptcy bill that made it harder for Americans to reduce their debts and helped cause the financial crisis. He not only authored and voted for that bill, he split with Barack Obama and led the battle to vote down Democratic amendments.
His explanations for carrying water for the credit card industry have changed over time. They have never rung true.
The simplest explanation is the most likely: he did it for his donors. At a fundraiser last year, Biden promised his Wall Street donors that “nothing would fundamentally change” for them if he became president. Now the financial world is raising huge money for his campaign. It clearly thinks he’s going to be its friend if elected. Most Americans, who get ripped off by the financial sector on a daily basis, aren’t looking for a candidate who has made their life harder.
Second, healthcare. On 25 April, the day he announced his campaign, Biden went straight to a fundraiser co-hosted by the chief executive of a major health insurance corporation. He refuses to sign a pledge to reject money from insurance and pharma execs and continues to raise money from healthcare industry donors. His campaign is being bankrolled by a super Pac run by healthcare lobbyists.
What did all these donors get? A healthcare proposal that preserves the power of the insurance industry and leaves 10 million Americans uninsured.
Third, climate change. Biden signed a pledge not to take money from the fossil fuel industry, then broke his promise. Right after a CNN town hall on climate change, he held a fundraiser hosted by the founder of a fossil fuel conglomerate. He is pushing climate policy that has gotten dismal reviews from several leading environmental groups.
There are plenty of other examples that raise questions, like housing and social security. Big real estate moguls are playing a major role in Biden’s campaign. Unlike his rivals, he has no comprehensive housing plan. When he pushed for cuts to Social Security, was he serving donors or his constituents?
I can already hear the howls: But look at Trump! Trump is 1,000 times worse!
You don’t need to convince me. I have spent my life writing about and fighting against corruption, and in America I have never seen anything like the current administration. In the last three years, I have made combatting Trump’s corruption the heart of my work.
I was on the first lawsuit against him for corrupt constitutional violations and I ran for attorney general in New York on a platform of pointing out just how dangerous he is, and how important unused state laws are to stopping him. My work on corruption was cited in the House judiciary committee’s report on impeachment.
But here’s the thing: nominating a candidate like Biden will make it far more difficult to defeat Trump. It will allow Trump to muddy the water, to once again pretend he is the one “draining the swamp”, running against Washington culture. Trump and the Cambridge Analytica of 2020 will campaign, as they did in 2016, on a message of radical nihilism: everybody lies, everybody is corrupt, nothing matters, there is no truth.
Corrupt politicians always use whataboutism. With Biden, we are basically handing Trump a whataboutism playbook. The comparison won’t be fair, but if you think he won’t use Biden’s closeness to donors as a cudgel to try to keep people home, you haven’t been paying attention. Unlike Democrats, who must give voters a reason to come out, Trump doesn’t need voters to love him. He just needs to convince people the whole game is ugly.
Whether or not Biden is making choices to please donors, there is no doubt his record represents the transactional, grossly corrupt culture in Washington that long precedes Trump. We cannot allow Trump to so lower our standards that we aren’t even allowed to call out that culture, which has not only stymied progress but also harmed the Democratic party.
The good news is that we still have time to break with this culture of corruption. We don’t have to choose Biden’s way, which would give Trump a perfect foil. The 2020 election should be about a crystal clear contrast between truth and lies, corruption and integrity, compassion and cruelty.
We have a rare opportunity to end a larger culture of corruption and we should take it – we will regret it if we don’t.
But Biden has a big corruption problem and it makes him a weak candidate. I know it seems crazy, but a lot of the voters we need – independents and people who might stay home – will look at Biden and Trump and say: “They’re all dirty.”
It looks like “Middle Class” Joe has perfected the art of taking big contributions, then representing his corporate donors at the cost of middle- and working-class Americans. Converting campaign contributions into legislative favors and policy positions isn’t being “moderate”. It is the kind of transactional politics Americans have come to loathe.
There are three clear examples.
First, Biden’s support for finance over working-class Americans. His career was bankrolled by the credit card industry. He delivered for it by spearheading a bankruptcy bill that made it harder for Americans to reduce their debts and helped cause the financial crisis. He not only authored and voted for that bill, he split with Barack Obama and led the battle to vote down Democratic amendments.
His explanations for carrying water for the credit card industry have changed over time. They have never rung true.
The simplest explanation is the most likely: he did it for his donors. At a fundraiser last year, Biden promised his Wall Street donors that “nothing would fundamentally change” for them if he became president. Now the financial world is raising huge money for his campaign. It clearly thinks he’s going to be its friend if elected. Most Americans, who get ripped off by the financial sector on a daily basis, aren’t looking for a candidate who has made their life harder.
Second, healthcare. On 25 April, the day he announced his campaign, Biden went straight to a fundraiser co-hosted by the chief executive of a major health insurance corporation. He refuses to sign a pledge to reject money from insurance and pharma execs and continues to raise money from healthcare industry donors. His campaign is being bankrolled by a super Pac run by healthcare lobbyists.
What did all these donors get? A healthcare proposal that preserves the power of the insurance industry and leaves 10 million Americans uninsured.
Third, climate change. Biden signed a pledge not to take money from the fossil fuel industry, then broke his promise. Right after a CNN town hall on climate change, he held a fundraiser hosted by the founder of a fossil fuel conglomerate. He is pushing climate policy that has gotten dismal reviews from several leading environmental groups.
There are plenty of other examples that raise questions, like housing and social security. Big real estate moguls are playing a major role in Biden’s campaign. Unlike his rivals, he has no comprehensive housing plan. When he pushed for cuts to Social Security, was he serving donors or his constituents?
I can already hear the howls: But look at Trump! Trump is 1,000 times worse!
You don’t need to convince me. I have spent my life writing about and fighting against corruption, and in America I have never seen anything like the current administration. In the last three years, I have made combatting Trump’s corruption the heart of my work.
I was on the first lawsuit against him for corrupt constitutional violations and I ran for attorney general in New York on a platform of pointing out just how dangerous he is, and how important unused state laws are to stopping him. My work on corruption was cited in the House judiciary committee’s report on impeachment.
But here’s the thing: nominating a candidate like Biden will make it far more difficult to defeat Trump. It will allow Trump to muddy the water, to once again pretend he is the one “draining the swamp”, running against Washington culture. Trump and the Cambridge Analytica of 2020 will campaign, as they did in 2016, on a message of radical nihilism: everybody lies, everybody is corrupt, nothing matters, there is no truth.
Corrupt politicians always use whataboutism. With Biden, we are basically handing Trump a whataboutism playbook. The comparison won’t be fair, but if you think he won’t use Biden’s closeness to donors as a cudgel to try to keep people home, you haven’t been paying attention. Unlike Democrats, who must give voters a reason to come out, Trump doesn’t need voters to love him. He just needs to convince people the whole game is ugly.
Whether or not Biden is making choices to please donors, there is no doubt his record represents the transactional, grossly corrupt culture in Washington that long precedes Trump. We cannot allow Trump to so lower our standards that we aren’t even allowed to call out that culture, which has not only stymied progress but also harmed the Democratic party.
The good news is that we still have time to break with this culture of corruption. We don’t have to choose Biden’s way, which would give Trump a perfect foil. The 2020 election should be about a crystal clear contrast between truth and lies, corruption and integrity, compassion and cruelty.
We have a rare opportunity to end a larger culture of corruption and we should take it – we will regret it if we don’t.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Do you have evidence that Sanders directed or encouraged the writing of this op-es?
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Gr00vus
Footballguy
That's comical coming from her. Corrupt ex-politician sticking up for another corrupt politician, and somehow the problem is calling attention to the corruption.
Widbil83
Footballguy
My two theories for why Bernie would throw his own person under the bus for properly cataloging Biden’s corruption-
1. Bernie knows that he is probably going to win the nomination. He doesn’t want to make the moderate Tim’s of the world bitter and resentful towards him for taking out Biden. After all he needs their votes.
2. He really isn’t trying to win the nomination and doesn’t want to fight back just like in 2016. Although Hillary and the DNC robbed him last time, he didn’t do a thing to stop it while it was happening.
The Big Donkey
Footballguy
too short of notice, he claims? Could drive to Arkansas from LA in less than a week. Clinton's gonna whack him if gives anything up.
KiddLattimer
Footballguy
My theory is he doesn't want to sound like he's on Trump's side during the impeachment nonsense by essentially agreeing with what Trump also says (true as it may be)Widbil83 said:
jm192
Footballguy
Unbelievable.
There's a way to support Dreamers and not sensationalize it/alienate Americans.
timschochet
Footballguy
He’s not right about that because most DACA recipients didn’t choose to come here. If he had said that their parents were more American than most Americans he’d be much more correct, because undocumented immigrants risk their lives and freedom to come.
But few politicians are brave enough to actually say this.
timschochet
Footballguy
NY Times: Kamala Harris very close to endorsing Joe Biden.
timschochet
Footballguy
So with Buttigieg falling and Klobuchar unable to get any traction, I find myself forced to go all in with Joe. He’s not my perfect guy; he’s a little off at times, says a lot of dumb stuff. But he’ll do. And If he’s the nominee I expect him to win pretty easily.
If Buttigieg, Klobuchar, or Bloomberg can make a run I’ll return my attention to them- I like all of them probably more than Joe. But it doesn’t look like it and Joe will be fine. He’s pretty much Olive Garden but I like the salad and breadsticks and after 4 years of stale McDonalds food, the public ought to go for it big time.
If Buttigieg, Klobuchar, or Bloomberg can make a run I’ll return my attention to them- I like all of them probably more than Joe. But it doesn’t look like it and Joe will be fine. He’s pretty much Olive Garden but I like the salad and breadsticks and after 4 years of stale McDonalds food, the public ought to go for it big time.
jm192
Footballguy
It's an asinine quote. Being brave/risking your life doesn't make you American. I'm sure the Russian military is brave and risk their lives.
He could have easily issued a statement of support without saying they're more "American" than actual citizens. That's divisive and ignorant.
timschochet
Footballguy
Being brave and risking your life in order to become American. Thats the part you left out.
Immigrants, both legal and illegal, are our best Americans. They chose to come.
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
What exactly is it about risking your life to "become an American" that makes them the top tier of the US citizenry? Is this a thing that applies uniquely to America?
What if an immigrant is risking their life to become a Canadian citizen? Does that rocket them to the top tier of the Canadian citizenry?
What I'm asking is, is it more something uniquely about the US, or is it the act itself of risking one's life to move to a new place that makes these individuals so highly regarded in your eyes?
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jm192
Footballguy
jm192
Footballguy
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
It is something uniquely about the US. We are THE nation of immigrants and refugees. That’s our story, always has been. It’s the essence of who we are.
Philo Beddoe
Footballguy
ren hoek
Footballguy
Biden blatantly lying about his record again, this time about cuts to social security: https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1220819709198766080
ren hoek
Footballguy
Good to see Zephyr Teachout vindicated for her correct piece. Notice Michael McFaul's insane talking points also, this guy was highly regarded during the TrumpRussia scam: https://twitter.com/wideofthepost/status/1220922528048320513?s=20
Maher: "I don’t know why Bernie apologized, it’s not a personal attack.”
Maher: "I don’t know why Bernie apologized, it’s not a personal attack.”
ren hoek
Footballguy
McFaul says the notion that Biden is corrupt is a 'talking point from Vladimir Putin,' a 'Republican talking point,' 'disinformation,' and 'there's no basis in fact for that.'
Uh, no, it isn't. It's the truth! Biden's been a swamp creature literally his entire career. He's owned by every lobby in Washington. The absolute brainrot of this warped worldview, it's crazy.
Uh, no, it isn't. It's the truth! Biden's been a swamp creature literally his entire career. He's owned by every lobby in Washington. The absolute brainrot of this warped worldview, it's crazy.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
He's obviously talking about the Ukraine story. The issue of corporate donations = corruption is a pretty standard ideological position somewhere around progressive to the left of progressive.
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ren hoek
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I think the corporate/corruption issue is always an interesting debate, but maybe this issue belongs in a different thread.
- However for starters there is a lot of evidence already this is coming from Dimitro Firtash and his connections to the Kremlin are pretty well documented. I don't know if you want to wrestle on that one but glad to.
- IIRC Putin was claiming Ukraine interference well before all this started, it's been speculated that Putin personally put a bug in Trump's ear about this but in general arguably it's a disinformation campaign with one effect of weakening Ukraine. At a minimum at least give credence to the former Ambassador to Russia.
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timschochet
Footballguy
Sanders opens up 7 point lead in Iowa at 25%. Buttigieg at 18%, Biden at 17%.
Looks good for Bernie at the moment. However it would not surprise me at all to see Buttigieg’s numbers fall to almost nothing in the last minute with Biden being the beneficiary. We’ll see.
Looks good for Bernie at the moment. However it would not surprise me at all to see Buttigieg’s numbers fall to almost nothing in the last minute with Biden being the beneficiary. We’ll see.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I feel almost exactly the same way. (Only difference is I haven’t been to an Olive Garden since 1990 and don’t remember the breadsticks.)
ren hoek
Footballguy
Btw, Teachout’s piece about ‘Biden’s corruption problem’ doesn’t mention Ukraine at all. It talks about the credit card/financial industry, healthcare, and climate change. So the suggestion it was ‘disinformation’ related to Ukraine doesn’t make sense either. Did you read it? Did the former ambassador to Russia? I don’t think he did.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I realize that, I agree, like I said corporate donations as corruption is a good point and the instances she mentioned are worth examining. I forget when the OP on this was but I went to the original piece to look at the argument. I’m not even sure it’s out of line with regular longstanding points by Sanders, but he usually goes out of his way to not directly insult opponents.
Zegras11
Footballguy
JohnnyU
Footballguy
After the primaries there is no way Sanders can beat Trump. For the sake of this country I sure as hell hope not anyway. Same for Warren.
Zegras11
Footballguy
Likely true, but I would love to see Bernie get a 10+ lead and see what other ammo they use on him.
Max Power
Footballguy
Another Biden family money scheme. Don't worry though, Joe denies it.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/28/james-biden-lobbyist-virgin-islands-099318
KiddLattimer
Footballguy
The way he keeps touching the man's jacket zippers is really unsettlingDem front runner Biden: Pokes man, tells potential voter to "go vote for someone else"
ren hoek
Footballguy
People will still say he has the best chance against Trump. Nothing he says or does matters.Dem front runner Biden: Pokes man, tells potential voter to "go vote for someone else"
I don't see it at all. It's clear he'd be a total disaster.
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
ren hoek
Footballguy
That guy should run instead of Biden. He seems to have a grip on reality. From Jilani: "Someone has informed me that the man in the Biden video above is Ed Fallon, a former long time Democratic state rep. in Iowa. Biden told a long-time Iowa politico on camera to vote for someone else and then grabbed him by his jacket."
Here's his twitter, seems like a good man https://twitter.com/EdFallonIowa
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
Thank you internet for these amazing montages. Really shows Joe in his true form.
https://twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/1222294102177394688?s=19
https://twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/1222294102177394688?s=19
ren hoek
Footballguy
I was talking about this with my gf the other day. Trump says a lot of outlandish stuff and flies all over the place. But it's often entertaining, funny, lucid for the most part, he's a bit of a reality star in a lot of people's eyes. There's a certain religiosity in the cadence he takes at rallies and so forth. They see him as a fighter & common man, at least on the surface.
Biden just seems awkward and creepy. He looks ancient, forgets which state he is in, he touches young children in an uncomfortable way, he displays a physical demeanor that is very combative at times. He talks about how black kids at the pool used to touch his hairy legs or something? It's just ####### weird man, this guy would get demolished in a general, not just to Trump but literally any other person. Biden is the WORST candidate to run against Trump, not the best. The GOP would have an absolute field day with him.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Don’t worry, Tim’s pretty sure he’s going to win easily, so...
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
I think Biden's worst gaffs are ahead of him, not behind him. Just not good. There are times I'm convinced he doesn't really want the nomination - and it seems to come out in all these little "go vote for the other guy" moments.
HellToupee
Footballguy
Bold strategy, very boldDem front runner Biden: Pokes man, tells potential voter to "go vote for someone else"
timschochet
Footballguy
If he gets the nomination. That’s the tough part. To me Bernie Sanders is the New McGovern.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
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