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***Official Joe Biden Campaign Thread (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
You must be thinking of Trump. Biden gets heated, little more. Whereas all Trump does is attack and blast people.
ren hoek
Footballguy
I think that's an incredibly arrogant statement from Sanders. To shame people who reject Joe Biden, an accused sexual predator, into voting for him as a negative response to Trump.
What many don't seem to understand is that Biden isn't seen as an ally, but viewed categorically as an enemy just like Trump. I don't think people understand how revolting Joe Biden is to these people. Why is this stale politician with a horrible record in cognitive decline the nominee? Because the obscenely wealthy owners of the party want him to be, that's why.
What's irresponsible is Bernie sheepdogging the working families that believed in him into supporting a ghoul that shilled the Iraq War. It'd be a much better use of energy to abandon the Democratic Party, which is a graveyard for leftists and progressive policy, to consolidate behind a 3rd party/independent movement. Bernie is a disingenuous coward who refuses to ever challenge the party like that, but his supporters aren't.
The party has told his base to take a hike in every imaginable way. They're just following through.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
I started supporting Biden when Pete endorsed. Pete was a guy for whom I had a lot of respect. If he says the right path forward is with Biden - I respect that.
But, its really less about "support" at this stage. If your guy was Bernie, the closest candidate to Bernie's positions that is still in the race is Biden. You may not campaign for Biden, but you are cutting off your nose to spite your face if you don't vote for Biden in the general election.
The General
Footballguy
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
It’s funny how minor details like actual votes get lost in the details during these DNC conspiracy theories.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
I think the difficulty for the left wing or "progressive" part of the democratic party is that that the party really can continue to ignore them, because everyone knows they will (mostly) still show up and vote for the party based on the "lesser of two evils" paradigm. The funny thing is they will still be blamed if the crap candidate the party submits loses, even thought that's exactly what the the progressives said all along. If they are ever to have any power in the democratic party, or even be recognized in terms of the party platform, their move is quite obvious - don't show up and vote for the party when they nominate someone you hate. Bernie's endorsement illustrates this quite well - he threw away all his leverage and power and, as far as I can tell, got nothing in return. Now, all his supporters and those who worked so hard for him are being asked to do the same. Personally, I'd rather suffer the "blame" from all the morons in the party who think it is someone else's fault that they selected Joe Biden as their candidate.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Okay, but if you are a Bernie fan already, you probably already thought everything he said there was true, so did you need him to say it to move your support to Biden? If he had not said it, but you thought it anyway, would you still move your support to Biden?
Note: I am using "you" in general terms.
I agree. I am simply pushing back on the idea of supporting a candidate simply because the person you originally supported threw their support behind him or her, in general terms and looking at in the grand scope (in other words, not just exclusive to this particular election).
I started supporting Biden when Pete endorsed. Pete was a guy for whom I had a lot of respect. If he says the right path forward is with Biden - I respect that.
But, its really less about "support" at this stage. If your guy was Bernie, the closest candidate to Bernie's positions that is still in the race is Biden. You may not campaign for Biden, but you are cutting off your nose to spite your face if you don't vote for Biden in the general election.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
I'm a lefty myself and I don't think we're getting ignored by mainstream Dems, maybe I'm just more realistic about the time it takes to affect the kinds of changes we want to see. Joe has reportedly come out with a plan to lower Medicare requirements by five years and introduce a plan to eliminate, or at least drastically reduce, student debt, changes that are obviously a nod to the growing leftward momentum in the nation. Am I still frustrated with the old line Dems? You betcha. Their reluctance to endorse election reforms* that would hugely benefit the country's voters makes me want to scream. But our agenda is delayed for way more than just four years if that awful president is re-elected. Let's get Job One done and then we'll keep pulling the ever-younger electorate left along with us.
* Increasing the size of Congress and supporting the Fair Representation Act (which would be a monster boost to third party candidacies and end gerrymandering)
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
As a proud DNC'er, I'm struggling with the motivation to continue fighting for votes among fellow "progressives". If you've looked at Biden's platform (heavily influenced by Liz & Bernie), looked at Trump's platform & his 4 year record, and conclude that you don't see the benefit of voting for Biden, I'm about ready to just give up. This isn't even close - this is as black and white as it gets. When Bill Kristol and Charlie Sykes and Joe Walsh etc. are ripping the fire alarm off the wall, yet left wingers suggest the difference isn't worth their time to vote, I give up.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
THIS!
Let's be honest - folks aren't extremely well educated on how gov't works. Change takes time, and the best way to accelerate the pace of change is to gain power. Gaining power means working with your fellow ideologues/worldviewers to elect political leaders who are open, if not in full agreement with your policy goals. Get enough liberals in office to achieve less sexy, but foundational goals like election reform, and the social/economic changes will follow.
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
So just as a single point out of your entire post here: I was watching Jimmy Dore from the other day. He got me thinking. Biden says he hears progressives (largely millennials) on healthcare, so his concession is to lower the medicare age to 60, benefitting.....millennial's parents? How does that help us at all?
Trey
Footballguy
It's a step in the right direction and a policy proposal that could actually be implemented during Biden's term as President.
Next one up moves Medicare eligibility to 50, so on and so forth.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
If we can pull it off logistically and financially, then we've shown the benefits of at least a type of single payer to another 12-15 million voters. And then we can keep dropping the age requirement until the electorate has reached a tipping point and we elect representatives who can implement a modern and efficient system like all the more modernized nations have long had.
We can't get there in a day. But even the start will be delayed by a minimum of four years if we re-elect Donald J. Trump.
Mile High
Footballguy
As a 60 year old white male in a blue state I have given up on progressives who refuse to vote. No skin off my nose if the Brenie bros shot themselves in the foot and cut off their own nose. I'll been fine. I voted for Bernie on super Tuesday and he won my state.As a proud DNC'er, I'm struggling with the motivation to continue fighting for votes among fellow "progressives". If you've looked at Biden's platform (heavily influenced by Liz & Bernie), looked at Trump's platform & his 4 year record, and conclude that you don't see the benefit of voting for Biden, I'm about ready to just give up. This isn't even close - this is as black and white as it gets. When Bill Kristol and Charlie Sykes and Joe Walsh etc. are ripping the fire alarm off the wall, yet left wingers suggest the difference isn't worth their time to vote, I give up.
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ShamrockPride
Footballguy
I really appreciate this kind of post.
If anti-trump people could more often discuss like this in a conversational tone rather than with their emotions, I'd be much more open to listening and hearing.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
I'd argue that it's more than delayed. Take climate policy. By not coming out to vote for HRC, we didn't just delay Obama/Biden's progress on climate goals, we're actually going backwards. Instead of building on fuel standards and renewable energy policy, Trump has ripped much of that up and it will likely take the next 4-8 years just to get back to 2017.
There really isn't any choice if you are a real progressive. Not supporting Biden is actually supporting regressive policy.
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ShamrockPride
Footballguy
Who cares how he communicates. He largely has a world viewpoint I agree with. I'll naturally be more open to listening to him because of that regardless of his tone. It's human nature.
KiddLattimer
Footballguy
I'm clearly not a Biden fan but I'll give him this... he's already done more to reach out to progressives than HRC ever did.
I still think he needs to go farther with his proposals, especially now when there's a projected 30M+ people losing healthcare and possible depression era unemployment levels, but at least they're acknowledging they need progressives to win.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
You suggested that the tone from anti-Trump folks mattered.
You don't consider yourself anti-Trump?
Golf Guy 69
Footballguy
The difference between Biden and Trump might seem big to you but neither impact my issues positively. All things being equal, I will go with the one that isn't mentally deteriorating right before our eyes.
I started supporting Biden when Pete endorsed. Pete was a guy for whom I had a lot of respect. If he says the right path forward is with Biden - I respect that.
But, its really less about "support" at this stage. If your guy was Bernie, the closest candidate to Bernie's positions that is still in the race is Biden. You may not campaign for Biden, but you are cutting off your nose to spite your face if you don't vote for Biden in the general election.
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roadkill1292
Footballguy
I'm assuming you'll vote for Joe because Donald hasn't been able to string two coherent sentences together for his entire term.
Golf Guy 69
Footballguy
You might be biased here and your assumption is horrible too. If you were going for whitty, strike 3.
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roadkill1292
Footballguy
I am biased and believe that you are making a terrible error in judgment if you vote for Donald Trump. If you don't think my opinion is worth listening to, then I suggest you listen to the advice of other posters here who are not only smarter but also much more whitty.
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
Yes. I also consider myself anti-establishment. That plays against both Left and Right. Anti-Trump does not automatically mean pro-other "side". I also just stated if it's a viewpoint I agree with from the start, it's much more likely I'll consider it regardless of tone. I would bet you most people think/react this way. Tribalism, etc, etc.
ren hoek
Footballguy
The platform doesn't matter at all. Anyone can brag about stuff that's written on a piece of paper. It can be discarded the second Joe Biden acquires power.As a proud DNC'er, I'm struggling with the motivation to continue fighting for votes among fellow "progressives". If you've looked at Biden's platform (heavily influenced by Liz & Bernie), looked at Trump's platform & his 4 year record, and conclude that you don't see the benefit of voting for Biden, I'm about ready to just give up. This isn't even close - this is as black and white as it gets. When Bill Kristol and Charlie Sykes and Joe Walsh etc. are ripping the fire alarm off the wall, yet left wingers suggest the difference isn't worth their time to vote, I give up.
What does matter is his 50-year record of rightwing, authoritarian policy decisions. He tried to CUT Medicare & SS multiple times- it's on tape. He sold us the Iraq War, the bankruptcy bill, mass incarceration, the Patriot Act. He pushed every war, sides with apartheid Israel, backed neonazis in Ukraine. He wanted to punish employers for "hiring illegals" and deported millions, which created the same immigration activists he now tells to go vote for Trump. He is credibly accused of sexually violating one of his own staffers.
Biden, and others like him, are behind every loathesome institution in Washington. He's been on the frontlines for many of the things that make young people angry about the way this country operates. This is who the DNC chose for the left to rally behind, and young people & progressives are telling them, "no thanks."
Mile High
Footballguy
Since young folks don't usually vote anyway. Don't give a #### anymore what they want.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
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roadkill1292
Footballguy
Time for the campaign to hit social media with his support for rescheduling weed. For every old voter it costs him, he'll pick up five new younger voters who might not otherwise have bothered.
Mile High
Footballguy
They won't bother anyway. You are what your record says you are. I bought into the hype. Bernie was going to start the movement. Young people and people who never vote were going to show up this time. If they had, the numbers are there to actually make a difference, but what happened? They left me on the front line pretty much all alone with no backup. Can't count on them.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
The governor of Michigan was helped by legalization being on the ballot when elected. Can't hurt here, not many Trump people on the weed bandwagon.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
If you remove the oldest members of the health insurance pool you remove, in general those driving up the prices the most. So while you are still under whatever age that Medicare starts at your insurance prices will be more affordable. How much more? A great question I can't answer. The other benefit is one that the FairTax people use - that over your lifetime most everyone will benefit even if not at first. So anyone who gets to 60 or 55 or 50 or wherever the age drops to by the time they get there will eventually benefit.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
This.As a proud DNC'er, I'm struggling with the motivation to continue fighting for votes among fellow "progressives". If you've looked at Biden's platform (heavily influenced by Liz & Bernie), looked at Trump's platform & his 4 year record, and conclude that you don't see the benefit of voting for Biden, I'm about ready to just give up. This isn't even close - this is as black and white as it gets. When Bill Kristol and Charlie Sykes and Joe Walsh etc. are ripping the fire alarm off the wall, yet left wingers suggest the difference isn't worth their time to vote, I give up.
Biden gives progressives a chance. Trump gives them nothing but the idea that Centrist Democrats will be so upset at Trump winning that they'll flock to the wing of the Party that openly didn't bother to vote against Trump.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
The yoot vote was up bigly in '18. And Bernie pretty much equalled his vote counts of '16, many of which I think we can presume came from young voters. It was just a surge in suburban voters last month for Biden that swamped Sanders.
Point being that I think they'll be there in November because the Don sure isn't talking favorably about climate change or college debt forgiveness.
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roadkill1292
Footballguy
Maybe more to the point is that a Republican majority Senate isn't going to consider rescheduling for even a minute. There's going to be six or seven really tight Senate races this year.
ren hoek
Footballguy
It's delusional to think Joe Biden would be good for progressives. That was the whole point of consolidating behind him, to fend off the left wing of the party. It doesn't matter what kind of concessions Biden tries to make. There is no point. Progressives don't trust him, and Biden voters are fixated on removing Trump, not actual policy.
At this point it's best he just focuses on well-off suburban households, appealing to black voters, and praying that the GOP doesn't expose his mental decline & ####ty record that has ruined millions of people's lives.
At this point it's best he just focuses on well-off suburban households, appealing to black voters, and praying that the GOP doesn't expose his mental decline & ####ty record that has ruined millions of people's lives.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
I guess I'm having trouble following the progressive plan for moving forward. I get the idea that "Biden sucks". For sake of argument, let's say I agree, Biden sucks. Now what? What's the next step? What's the progressives' plan for getting where progressives want to be?
Edit to add: And let's not have the answer be "nominate someone who isn't Biden in 2020". That ship has sailed. Biden is the Democrat nominee for 2020.
Edit to add: And let's not have the answer be "nominate someone who isn't Biden in 2020". That ship has sailed. Biden is the Democrat nominee for 2020.
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ren hoek
Footballguy
3rd party/Independent candidates. Put on a yellow vest. But above all, don't vote for Joe Biden.
KiddLattimer
Footballguy
For this year only I think our best play is to leverage the "Never Biden" movement into some substantial concessions. Bernie didn't help here since he pledged allegiance before he even lost, but we as voters can hold their feet to the fire. They need our votes and they know it, so we need to turn that into something that advances the cause. They need to know that enough of us need to be willing to walk though and many don't have the stomach for that.
As I mentioned in another thread Biden at least seems to acknowledge that he needs progressives, which is more than HRC ever did but like @ren hoek said saying it is one thing but day 1 he can just brush it off and his career indicates he will do just that (sincerely hope I'm wrong here).
Going forward it doesn't seem like there's much of a bullpen for progressives at least for presidential politics. I still hold out hope for Tulsi Gabbard (yea i know, putin, assad, russia russia russia... save it everyone) but I doubt she ever gets anywhere as a democrat. Maybe endorsing Biden put her back in some good graces, if not I've been reading a bit about the populist right so maybe there's a lane for her there. AOC is too young for 2 cycles I believe and by then I'm assuming she'll be swallowed up by the establishment. Feels like that's started a bit with her already. Beyond that I'm not seeing anyone but I didn't see Bernie so maybe I'll be surprised.
What I am hopeful for is that Bernie keeps his mailing list and some of his machine in tact and uses it to drive change on a local/state level and build from the bottom, but that's going to be a long hard road. The power brokers in the DNC are not going to give up what they have and they've already threatened to blackball anyone who helps progressives primary sitting democrats. In the long run it will be much better off though, especially coinciding with the wave of Gen X, Millenial, Gen Z replacing the Boomers as the primary voting block.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Support progressive Democratic candidates in House and Senate primaries. Keep moving Congress in the right direction.
This is gonna take a while. But the needle has already moved; there's no reason why we can't keep moving it. Even Joe is moving in the right direction.
Primary out crappy dems when you can (eg Newman beating Lipinski this year, AOC beating Crowley in 2018). Pretty much every dem in a safe dem seat should be primaried from the left if possible.
I am a little more pragmatic about conservative dems in conservative areas, where I know Manchin is garbage and most leftists hate him, but WV literally cannot do better, and I would rather have him than any republican that would replace him. I know on other forums I visit there were a lot of tears about Ralph Northam in Virginia being a right wing DINO by leftists during that election, with a similar contingent of left posters saying they will not vote for him, but compare all of the positive changes that Virginia has been going through with him there vs a Republican the last few years.
However, as I have stated in other threads, I believe the Democratic Party is incapable of moving leftward by losing elections. I see the best way to move them leftward is to keep winning. Hypothetically, I anticipate that if they win in 2020 and 2024, the party will be further left in 2028 than it would be if they lose in 2020 and 2024, with the caveat that you need to have power for it to matter. They can lose 10 elections in a row until they become the most pure leftist party in history, but if they only get 10% of the voters what good is it.
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Rich Conway
Footballguy
Appreciate the responses above.
I'd argue that the single most important thing progressives can do in the near future is show up in 2020 and vote for Democrat candidates for governor and in state legislatures. 2020 is a Census year. That means 2021 is a "redraw maps" year.
I'd argue that the single most important thing progressives can do in the near future is show up in 2020 and vote for Democrat candidates for governor and in state legislatures. 2020 is a Census year. That means 2021 is a "redraw maps" year.
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fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
Rich Conway
Footballguy
To be fair, I suppose it's also the single most important thing Tea Party types can do on their side?Rich Conway said:
roadkill1292
Footballguy
The GOP indeed killed it with their big win in 2010. Their down ballot wins and re-districting efforts helped them maintain a disproportionate amount of the nation's political power for the ensuing decade. Dems have to understand how important this is, maybe as important as Supreme Court nominations. They will need to use their future power to reform the nation's election systems so we get fair representation and legitimate third party candidacies for Congress or winning right now might not really help in getting the country moving in the right direction.
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